What have we come to

debok · 09-02-2020 5:36pm

quokula wrote: »

We can no longer think we're better than other countries voting for Brexit, Trump, AFD, National Front etc as Ireland now find itself in much the same boat.

To see so many constituencies topped by a party that is nationalist, is populist, pretends complex problems have simple solutions, has a campaign and manifesto built on lies and fantasy, often uses anti-EU rhetoric, and actively engages in climate denial is so utterly depressing. And that's before you get to their direct and active links to violent thugs and criminality.

It's a dark day for Ireland, hopefully whatever government make up we end up with exposes Sinn Fein for who they really are before they can do too much permanent damage to the country.

Nurses strike last year, homeless children eating off the street, childcare workers striking , teachers striking, health falling asunder hospitals costing billions. Sinn Fein might not be the answer but you seemingly wanted fg rewarded for there mistakes. I think your also wrong on a lot of what you say climate denial and anti euro etc.
Fg can also be linked to a lot of criminality although there's is more financial and fraud related. There manifesto was also filled with lies and fantasy like you say sinn feins was. The only difference was fg were in power so there is evidence of there lies and fantasy. 9 years of evidence. As a poster said earlier if fg have the country in full employment and everything is so rosy where did all the sinn Fein supposed scrounger voters come from.

sabat · 09-02-2020 5:38pm

quokula wrote: »

To see so many constituencies topped by a party that is nationalist, is populist, pretends complex problems have simple solutions, has a campaign and manifesto built on lies and fantasy, often uses anti-EU rhetoric, and actively engages in climate denial is so utterly depressing. And that's before you get to their direct and active links to violent thugs and criminality.

Let's not forget that they openly have ethno-religious breeding (sorry, "changing demographics") as one of their main strategies in the North. Yeah totally progressive...

Eric Cartman · 09-02-2020 5:38pm

greenfield21 wrote: »

That's an interesting one, what are Sinn Fein corporate tax policy's?? Is it business as usual.

what their policy currently is and what will be required to even deliver 10% of their promises are two different things.

briany · 09-02-2020 5:38pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Didn't FF say they won't work with FG or SF?

Come on, now. You almost sound like you believe that guff.

ChikiChiki · 09-02-2020 5:38pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What have FG done that is so bad? Recovery after the crash. Got the deal done on Brexit - near full employment in the ROI.

What have SF done promised a vague 'change' ? The same party who has an uneasy history with the SCC and protectors of comrades involved in lawlessness, murder etc. The same party who did nothing during Brexit - could have entered WM but did not. The same party who did nothing in Stormont for 3 years playing games.

I think the problem is many of these new 'young disenfranchised electorate' do not look under the surface, know recent history, nor do they understand the broader picture.

Health/ Housing/ Insurance Fraud TDs. I could list out so much more. Have you missed that? I didn't vote SF but delighted the two main parties are getting a kicking.

Fann Linn · 09-02-2020 5:38pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What have FG done that is so bad? Recovery after the crash. Got the deal done on Brexit - near full employment in the ROI.

What have SF done promised a vague 'change' ? The same party who has an uneasy history with the SCC and protectors of comrades involved in lawlessness, murder etc. The same party who did nothing during Brexit - could have entered WM but did not. The same party who did nothing in Stormont for 3 years playing games.

I think the problem is many of these new 'young disenfranchised electorate' do not look under the surface, know recent history, nor do they understand the broader picture.

Or perhaps those 'young disenfranchised electorate'are more concerned with health, housing, insurance and childcare issues which FF/FG have failed to address.

Eric Cartman · 09-02-2020 5:40pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Or perhaps those 'young disenfranchised electorate'are more concerned with health, housing, insurance and childcare issues which FF/FG have failed to address.

its not that FF and FG werent concerned, they just wouldnt promise to make somebody else pay for them, SF havent really adressed that but id say apple and google are re-considering just how much they need to be here.

I see sheep · 09-02-2020 5:40pm

quokula wrote: »

We can no longer think we're better than other countries voting for Brexit, Trump, AFD, National Front etc as Ireland now find itself in much the same boat.

To see so many constituencies topped by a party that is nationalist, is populist, pretends complex problems have simple solutions, has a campaign and manifesto built on lies and fantasy, often uses anti-EU rhetoric, and actively engages in climate denial is so utterly depressing. And that's before you get to their direct and active links to violent thugs and criminality.

It's a dark day for Ireland, hopefully whatever government make up we end up with exposes Sinn Fein for who they really are before they can do too much permanent damage to the country.

Nonsense.

Comparing Trump to SF :pac:

Couldn't be further apart, the losers in this election are the two big centre right parties.

Cazale · 09-02-2020 5:42pm

endacl wrote:

Short memories + shorter consciences

Plenty of Irish children killed too.

RonanG86 · 09-02-2020 5:42pm

Duke of Url wrote: »

So we should sweep health, housing and crime under the carpet and stick with FG and FF?

Clearly I didn't make the sarcasm obvious enough.

debok · 09-02-2020 5:43pm

I see sheep wrote: »

Nonsense.

Comparing Trump to SF :pac:

Couldn't be further apart, the losers in this election are the two big centre right parties.

Is trump not on the right ? Fg and FF are considered right
But voting for sinn Fein considered left is compared to voting for trump. It's all a bit irish

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 5:43pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Watch us all get equally miserable....
theyre going to need a lot more social houses when the high income earners and multinationals leave.

oh you mean like apple that pay no tax or anything? holding us hostage, to keep the status quo profitable to them.

briany · 09-02-2020 5:43pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not that FF and FG werent concerned, they just wouldnt promise to make somebody else pay for them, SF havent really adressed that but id say apple and google are re-considering just how much they need to be here.

Yeah, the educated workforce bit is alright, but it's the low corporation tax that the tech companies are really here for. Other places in the world that have an educated workforce and who might be willing to look the other way on taxes. Dangerous game to be applying pressure. Having said that, a 100 mil here or there is pocket change to these companies, but it's the world we live in that they hold more of the cards than governments.

endacl · 09-02-2020 5:44pm

Cazale wrote: »

Plenty of Irish children killed too.

Kind of uncomfortable that somebody would see fit to counter dead children with dead children.

I see sheep · 09-02-2020 5:45pm

AH's favourite populist Peter Casey has received 495 votes in the Dublin West constituency in the first count.

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Jim Root · 09-02-2020 5:46pm

What’s the worst that can happen?

debok · 09-02-2020 5:47pm

endacl wrote: »

Kind of uncomfortable that somebody would see fit to counter dead children with dead children.

Germans killed 6 million and tried to wipe out an entire breed of people we went into Europe no bother with them.

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 5:47pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not that FF and FG werent concerned, they just wouldnt promise to make somebody else pay for them, SF havent really adressed that but id say apple and google are re-considering just how much they need to be here.

You sound proper elitist, tbh its people like you are the reason "Scum and dole" are voting in SF, you want to keep the nest like u have give the ppl just enough so you can continue leaching off the country, what good are half those corporate who are only here for there own gain and threaten to leave if we change, they by proxy own the country. im glad ff and fg got a good decent kicking.

Billcarson · 09-02-2020 5:48pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

probably, hopefully they don't choose the greens and we can business as usual.

Ff and FG again would just turn even more people against them. So that would be one silver lining

um7y1h83ge06nx · 09-02-2020 5:48pm

I think that economics and finance have been over simplified. I doubt fixing the HSE and providing affordable housing is going to be easy to do while also trying to have a relatively functioning economy.

Plus, where will the money come from? Income taxes could be increased but that only makes places like Australia etc. more attractive to young, educated people.

Interesting times.

Still waters · 09-02-2020 5:49pm

perrito caliente wrote: »

Trying to get a one-up on someone you know nothing about by implying that they are unemployed is a rather pathetic rhetorical device I must say.

I do work, but unlike resentful and selfish people like yourself, I'm happy to see my tax money redistributed so that people who need a hand up in life can live with dignity. Instead of losing sleep over the 'wasters' and 'scroungers' maybe you'd like to consider our corporate tax policy, or just our general priorities in terms of living in this country.

But you begrudge someone success in trying to build a career and make a go of things, i can imagine someone like you in the same dead end job for years to come, sneering at the fools taking a chance like your own employer did at some stage, every day the same looking forward to your week in lanzarote and watching United down the pub in your lucky United Jersey

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 5:49pm

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gormdubhgorm · 09-02-2020 5:49pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

To the people lambasting and throwing all sorts of insults at those who voted for SF. You do realise such rhetoric increased their vote over the course of the election?

Be careful, we could be back at the polls in a few months. And Sinn Féin will have even more candidates.....

I'd say be careful what you wish for. Playing senior championship is different to challenge matches - working with committees. SF will be in a difficult position because they will have to compromise a lot of thier ideology in order to get a working government. They will have to dress things up to make it look like 'change'. Because once SF do get in they will no longer be able to claim they are anti-establishment - or use phrases like we do not want more of the same - change.
SF are already the establishment in NI. Where thier record is mixed to say the least. But in fairness to SF they got thier strategy spot on in the ROI implying that FF/FG are the big business parties, corrupt etc. While somehow dodging thier own questions on thierr approach to republican criminality and lawlessness. Basically not because of any great rhetoric from SF it is vague. It is because of most of the new electorate are not aware of the nitty gritty of SF's darker sides in recent history.

Blaze420 · 09-02-2020 5:50pm

Hope Tasteless Flick wrote: »

I think that economics and finance have been over simplified. I doubt fixing the HSE and providing affordable housing is going to be easy to do while also trying to have a relatively functioning economy.

Plus, where will the money come from? Income taxes could be increased but that only makes places like Australia etc. more attractive to young, educated people.

Interesting times.

The magic money tree don’t you know? Free everything for everyone huzzah

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 5:50pm

Still waters wrote: »

But you begrudge someone success in trying to build a career and make a go of things, i can imagine someone like you in the same dead end job for years to come, sneering at the fools taking a chance like your own employer did at some stage, every day the same looking forward to your week in lanzarote and watching United down the pub in your lucky United Jersey

You basically just described the average working man.

Eric Cartman · 09-02-2020 5:50pm

Hope Tasteless Flick wrote: »

I think that economics and finance have been over simplified. I doubt fixing the HSE and providing affordable housing is going to be easy to do while also trying to have a relatively functioning economy.

Plus, where will the money come from? Income taxes could be increased but that only makes places like Australia etc. more attractive to young, educated people.

Interesting times.

This is where we sit, increasingly we are having a brain drain where its the uneducated left behind, leading to things like a SF government which will double down on this.

RonanG86 · 09-02-2020 5:53pm

I see sheep wrote: »

AH's favourite populist Peter Casey has received 495 votes in the Dublin West constituency in the first count.

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Verona Murphy is on 5,800 in Wexford. It's 7th place on 1st preference, but only 600 away from 4th place on 1st preference and could get in with the right transfers. So maybe she'll be the new representation of the right wing alternative that the electorate routinely rejects within two elections, if they even get that far.

Personally, I cannot fathom why that many people would vote for someone who basically represents nothing apart from some half-assed remarks she made about brown people. I wouldn't have even considered them racist enough to attract a hard anti-immigration demographic. I guess another form of anti-establishment vote.

Still waters · 09-02-2020 5:53pm

Cupatae wrote: »

You basically just described the average working man.

Maybe average to you, i know plenty that aspire to more even though they work normal jobs, maybe you should try and mix in better circles, it might drive you on to better things in life than soccer and a week in an Irish pub in spain

JuneMoon7 · 09-02-2020 5:54pm

Billcarson wrote: »

What's more important to young people the past or the future??

Something like the troubles which happened in the past and has nothing to do with them or the fact that many young people cant get a house . Bit of a no brainer.

So youre saying people should just forget. Try telling that to the families of the ones who were killed. This is a party who has never condemned the actions of many and nobody is ever held accountable. What sort of person lauds a party with such a disgraceful past? Its like the Germans voting the Nazis back into power.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 09-02-2020 5:54pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is where we sit, increasingly we are having a brain drain where its the uneducated left behind, leading to things like a SF government which will double down on this.

True and the below might seem crazy but it is happening at the moment.

I'm familiar with a company outside Dublin offering to graduates - 36k, almost 10% bonus, health insurance, defined benefit pension as well as other perks. And they are struggling to find people.

gormdubhgorm · 09-02-2020 5:55pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Or perhaps those 'young disenfranchised electorate'are more concerned with health, housing, insurance and childcare issues which FF/FG have failed to address.

That is a fair point but SF are not going to be able to go in and wave a magic wand. It is easy to say the populist things like 'change' rather than having to practically achieve these goals.

It reminds me when Andy Reid was out of the Irish soccer team. He was painted as the saviour of Ireland. The reality was a lot different. I suspect it will be the same if SF ever get in power in the ROI.

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 5:55pm

Still waters wrote: »

Maybe average to you, i know plenty that aspire to more even though they work normal jobs, maybe you should try and mix in better circles, it might drive you on to better things in life than soccer and a week in an Irish pub in spain

There isnt anything wrong with that tho so long as you are content, why are you saying it like its a negative?

You assume alot but know very little.

debok · 09-02-2020 5:59pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

The magic money tree don’t you know? Free everything for everyone huzzah

Or maybe get adequate services for what we pay for.

noodler · 09-02-2020 6:00pm

debok wrote: »

Or maybe get adequate services for what we pay for.

I've yet to hear SF make an argument for efficiency.

It's just more spend and less tax

Eric Cartman · 09-02-2020 6:00pm

Hope Tasteless Flick wrote: »

True and the below might seem crazy but it is happening at the moment.

I'm familiar with a company outside Dublin offering to graduates - 36k, almost 10% bonus, health insurance, defined benefit pension as well as other perks. And they are struggling to find people.

If theyre a telecoms company in athlone then I know why theyre struggling.

Graduates want city life and nothing else will do, they want avocado toast, apartments, services beside and no amount of cheap commuting and money will take them away, which is stupidity in itself.

Know a recruiter who had a low experienced software dev say "id want 40k outside dublin but if its for an american company in the city ill take 32"

Blaze420 · 09-02-2020 6:01pm

debok wrote: »

Or maybe get adequate services for what we pay for.

Unlikely - sure where’s all the money coming from to build these free houses for everyone? You don’t think there’ll be anything left for service or capital expenditure after that? At least the wasters will be comfortable that’s all that matters apparently

LeineGlas · 09-02-2020 6:01pm

rtron wrote: »

Let's just get it over with.
Vote them in.
Watch them feck up the country.
Then revote FF in 4 or 7 years whatever it is.

We're you in a coma between 2007 and 2011?

debok · 09-02-2020 6:02pm

Still waters wrote: »

Maybe average to you, i know plenty that aspire to more even though they work normal jobs, maybe you should try and mix in better circles, it might drive you on to better things in life than soccer and a week in an Irish pub in spain

I know plenty of narcissist's too

debok · 09-02-2020 6:04pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

Unlikely - sure where’s all the money coming from to build these free houses for everyone? You don’t think there’ll be anything left for service or capital expenditure after that? At least the wasters will be comfortable that’s all that matters apparently

But fg have everyone in employment and happy where are these wasters coming from?

um7y1h83ge06nx · 09-02-2020 6:04pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Know a recruiter who had a low experienced software dev say "id want 40k outside dublin but if its for an american company in the city ill take 32"

Not Athlone but is a software company.

That's gas. Jesus, whenever I get called about jobs in Dublin I always say I'm not interested and that there would have to be a very large premium to ever remotely tempt me.

endainoz · 09-02-2020 6:05pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

The same scumbags who wouldn't bother to get out and vote? Oh wait...

Blaze420 · 09-02-2020 6:06pm

debok wrote: »

But fg have everyone in employment and happy where are these wasters coming from?

A spoof figure of 10k homeless who just have to be provided a house regardless of what they have contributed to the state coffers? The people who work are going to be ****ed here, the no ambition lowlifes will be further emboldened to sit on their useless holes with their hands out to the rest of us

debok · 09-02-2020 6:06pm

noodler wrote: »

I've yet to hear SF make an argument for efficiency.

It's just more spend and less tax

That's fair enough but fg have made all these promises too while in government and haven't delivered. They have no defence. This is just a protest vote hopefully it spurs fg and FF to get back to being with the people and not looking down on them.

Eric Cartman · 09-02-2020 6:08pm

Hope Tasteless Flick wrote: »

Not Athlone but is a software company.

That's gas. Jesus, whenever I get called about jobs in Dublin I always say I'm not interested and that there would have to be a very large premium to ever remotely tempt me.

Thats it, I suppose if youre 21-22 and obsessed with living the TV lifestyle its whats done, id personally rather live in the midlands, buy a one off mansion for 300k and commute for 15 minutes to some purpose built industrial zone , but sure a town with 3 pubs and a 24 hour petrol station to buy smokes would keep me entertained.

debok · 09-02-2020 6:09pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

A spoof figure of 10k homeless who just have to be provided a house regardless of what they have contributed to the state coffers? The people who work are going to be ****ed here, the no ambition lowlifes will be further emboldened to sit on their useless holes with their hands out to the rest of us

Spoof figure? I suppose rents aren't crazy either?

FLaris · 09-02-2020 6:09pm

Granted we’ve always had crooks as politicians, but the people pulling the strings now are murderers. It’s sickening that such scum now have such influence in Irish society.

debok · 09-02-2020 6:10pm

FLaris wrote: »

Granted we’ve always had crooks as politicians, but the people pulling the strings now are murderers. It’s sickening that such scum now have such influence in Irish society.

Haughey owned an island and ran guns .

Blaze420 · 09-02-2020 6:11pm

debok wrote: »

Spoof figure? I suppose rents aren't crazy either?

Yeah it’s a spoof figure as far as I’m concerned - it’s not transparent as to what criteria they use to count it. I personally know of 2 wasters gaming the system for a bigger house - having kids while in hotels is like an extra step up the ladder. Anybody who believes everyone on that 10k group is a genuine hard times case is a ****ing idiot, no other way to describe it

gormdubhgorm · 09-02-2020 6:11pm

debok wrote: »

Nurses strike last year, homeless children eating off the street, childcare workers striking , teachers striking, health falling asunder hospitals costing billions. Sinn Fein might not be the answer but you seemingly wanted fg rewarded for there mistakes. I think your also wrong on a lot of what you say climate denial and anti euro etc.
Fg can also be linked to a lot of criminality although there's is more financial and fraud related. There manifesto was also filled with lies and fantasy like you say sinn feins was. The only difference was fg were in power so there is evidence of there lies and fantasy. 9 years of evidence. As a poster said earlier if fg have the country in full employment and everything is so rosy where did all the sinn Fein supposed scrounger voters come from.

I have a number of problems with this post, not just the grammar.
There will always be strikes in an open and free democracy, that is how it works. There will always be homelessness unfortunately.

The health sector in Ireland will take years to fix because of many competing interests no matter who is in. I love how you link FG to financial and fraud related stuff - while SF have been linked to bank robberies, murder both North and South in recent history. Obviously murder and protection of murderers are far less important? Also the question of who actually controls SF and needs to protect these types of people?

Most SF voters have clearly came from the younger vote who do not remember the troubles. Nor have they dug behind the face of SF and have fallen for the myth that FG have done badly. There are some people in society who will always do badly no matter who is in charge. That is just the reality of life.

You mention lies and fantasy. If there ever has being party who was adept at this it was SF. As a result it meant no justice for those who have lost thier lives through republican linked violence. If SF became more transparent and honest I would vote for them. But at the moment they talk from both sides of thier mouths, with different strategies in two different jurisdictions.

Also you are ignoring how well FG fared on Brexit and how there is near full employment etc. While SF sat on thier hands over Brexit.

Turbohymac · 09-02-2020 6:14pm

Great party ff. Michael Martin singing off the rooftops a few days ago that fianna fail or fine Gael wouldn't go into government with sf. Now after seeing how badly his party are doing hes actually open to sharing/forming the next government with fg or sf..
God what a two sided hypocrite..

What have we come to

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