What have we come to

noodler

debok wrote: »

That's fair enough but fg have made all these promises too while in government and haven't delivered. They have no defence. This is just a protest vote hopefully it spurs fg and FF to get back to being with the people and not looking down on them.

Quite a bit achieved tbh.

Lots of lower USC and income tax.

Employment market transformed.

Health expenditure went up by way more than the 4% p.a. promise.

Health and Housing outcomes have obviously been subpar.

reg114

Tis a sad day. But, FF and FG have run the country into the ground and many of the electorate are tired of the same ole same ole. Unfortunately there's a shocking lack of options outside the two civil war parties which seems to have benefitted sinn fein.

Huge missed opportunity for the greens who really need to consider an alternative to Eamon Ryan as leader, in the current climate when massive changes need to be happening to avoid global warming, the fact that Ryan could only manage wfat looks like ten seats is fairly pathetic. Ryan needs more steel and more passion to start convincing people in greater numbers of the importance of the green agenda.

Labour should simply fold as a party, they are completely irrelevant.

As are aontu, Renua, Irish freedom Party social Democrats, pBp etc

Gut says FF will partner with Sinn fein and greens etc to form a gov

FLaris

debok wrote: »

Haughey owned an island and ran guns .

Haughey was an out and out crook. No arguments there

Blaze420

reg114 wrote: »

Tis a sad day. But, FF and FG have run the country into the ground and many of the electorate are tired of the same ole same ole. Unfortunately there's a shocking lack of options outside the two civil war parties which seems to have benefitted sinn fein.

Huge missed opportunity for the greens who really need to consider an alternative to Eamon Ryan as leader, in the current climate when massive changes need to be happening to avoid global warming, the fact that Ryan could only manage wfat looks like ten seats is fairly pathetic. Ryan needs more steel and more passion to start convincing people in greater numbers of the importance of the green agenda.

Labour should simply fold as a party, they are completely irrelevant.

As are aontu, Renua, Irish freedom Party social Democrats, pBp etc

Gut says FF will partner with Sinn fein and greens etc to form a gov

An FF/SF/Greens scenario is a nightmare and unforgivable - the only difference in that line up compared to the pack of bastards of who ruined this country in 2008 is that LAB is spelled SF instead

Emmersonn

Earthhorse wrote: »

To screw us over massively?

Careful what you wish for.

Remember Charlie Haughey. Tighten your belt from the man with £200 shirt. Or Bertie Aherne the finance minister who had no bank account of his own, but was so so lucky at betting on horses.or the Fianna Fail goverment who sold our oil and gas rights for brown envelopes and were responsible for literally breaking the country. The Goodman Empire with connections in Fine Gael And both of these parties have screwed us over and over over the past 15 years and we had to provide the K-jel. Ya, why change. :rolleyes: Things might even get better.

Always Tired

quokula wrote: »

We can no longer think we're better than other countries voting for Brexit, Trump, AFD, National Front etc as Ireland now find itself in much the same boat.

To see so many constituencies topped by a party that is nationalist, is populist, pretends complex problems have simple solutions, has a campaign and manifesto built on lies and fantasy, often uses anti-EU rhetoric, and actively engages in climate denial is so utterly depressing. And that's before you get to their direct and active links to violent thugs and criminality.

It's a dark day for Ireland, hopefully whatever government make up we end up with exposes Sinn Fein for who they really are before they can do too much permanent damage to the country.

This is one of the silliest takes I've seen. Another FFG lemming trying to play both sides of an argument.

Trump and the Republicans and Johnson and the Tories are right wing and their favorite pasttime is slashing welfare and attacking the working poor.

How can you call SF the same, while saying theyre all for the dole moles.

Again lads, which is it?

SF want to bring in a wealth tax. It's one of their main campaign points. Good luck finding Trump or Johnsom at that craic. Seriously you can't be that daft youre just salty at the result and clutching at straws.

Maewyn Succat

I honestly think that if the Irish rugby team had have nominated themselves for election some of them would have got elected purely because they weren't FF or FG. Voting SF was a protest vote for a lot of people who didn't care what they were voting for as long as it wasn't FF or FG.

gormdubhgorm

debok wrote: »

Haughey owned an island and ran guns .

He was never convicted of running guns, but he used this as a tactic to improve his republican credentials within FF - against the likes Boland and Blaney.

CJ Haughey is an interesting case.

To the new SF voters - does the arms trial supersede all the financial scandals the he was involved in?
Because many of these new SF voters seemed to have voted for SF (involved in protecting murderers who beat a fella plup etc) because they view corruption and fraud, big business as far worse than accessories to murder/sheltering murderers?

Interesting dichotomy. But then again these new young voters are sketchy on thier history?

gormdubhgorm

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

I honestly think that if the Irish rugby team had have nominated themselves for election some of them would have got elected purely because they weren't FF or FG. Voting SF was a protest vote for a lot of people who didn't care what they were voting for as long as it wasn't FF or FG.

Not after the world cup I think!
Maybe a few from dancing with the stars might have got in.

Fred Cryton

Turbohymac wrote: »

Great party ff. Michael Martin singing off the rooftops a few days ago that fianna fail or fine Gael wouldn't go into government with sf. Now after seeing how badly his party are doing hes actually open to sharing/forming the next government with fg or sf..
God what a two sided hypocrite..

Yep. Guess he has no choice, the party want it and they'll remove him if he doesn't.


But the sheer cheek all the same.

trellheim

there's a shocking lack of options outside the two civil war parties

Labour should simply fold as a party, they are completely irrelevant.

As are aontu, Renua, Irish freedom Party social Democrats, pBp etc

Do you not see the problem with that ? After saying theres a lack of options you go on to post a big list of all the other parties which all put candidates up in the GE.

As for Labour irrelevant they are being destroyed because they went in with FG knowing it would break them because SF and all the other left parties were gleefully happy to bash them because the opposition didnt have to make the hard choices.

Thats not opinion - thats what happened.

gormdubhgorm

reg114 wrote: »

Tis a sad day. But, FF and FG have run the country into the ground and many of the electorate are tired of the same ole same ole. Unfortunately there's a shocking lack of options outside the two civil war parties which seems to have benefitted sinn fein.

Huge missed opportunity for the greens who really need to consider an alternative to Eamon Ryan as leader, in the current climate when massive changes need to be happening to avoid global warming, the fact that Ryan could only manage wfat looks like ten seats is fairly pathetic. Ryan needs more steel and more passion to start convincing people in greater numbers of the importance of the green agenda.

Labour should simply fold as a party, they are completely irrelevant.

As are aontu, Renua, Irish freedom Party social Democrats, pBp etc

Gut says FF will partner with Sinn fein and greens etc to form a gov

I agree with you on the numbers of party many are irrelevant, but to say FG ran the country into the ground is hyperbolic. There is near full employment Brexit deal etc. There are always people going to be disenfranchised within society. SF were the lightening rod for the disenfranchised as you have said there is very little other choice.

ThunbergsAreGo

Always Tired wrote: »

This is one of the silliest takes I've seen. Another FFG lemming trying to play both sides of an argument.

Trump and the Republicans and Johnson and the Tories are right wing and their favorite pasttime is slashing welfare and attacking the working poor.

How can you call SF the same, while saying theyre all for the dole moles.

Again lads, which is it?

SF want to bring in a wealth tax. It's one of their main campaign points. Good luck finding Trump or Johnsom at that craic. Seriously you can't be that daft youre just salty at the result and clutching at straws.

It's not about the policy or what wing it is, it's about the "movement". Brexit, Trump and SF surge are all based on an anti establishment "change" vote.

People are fed up of FFG and SF were right place right time and rode the wave

Always Tired

Turbohymac wrote: »

Great party ff. Michael Martin singing off the rooftops a few days ago that fianna fail or fine Gael wouldn't go into government with sf. Now after seeing how badly his party are doing hes actually open to sharing/forming the next government with fg or sf..
God what a two sided hypocrite..

They only want one thing. To keep their noses in the trough. They'll flip flop any which way to do that. It's no surprise. They shouldn't even have the chance at being in government after what they did to the people of Ireland, they should be nothing but a very distant memory. They're playing with house money at this point. If things go well they can take credit and if not they can blame FG and SF.

gormdubhgorm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Health/ Housing/ Insurance Fraud TDs. I could list out so much more. Have you missed that? I didn't vote SF but delighted the two main parties are getting a kicking.

The issues of Health/Housing issues will always be there no matter who is in charge - that is just a fact of it.

As for the insurance fraud that was just one idiotic selfish individual. There will always be those types in politics.

But, if I did have to chose a candidate who committed insurance fraud v one who protects 'comrades' from jail because they committed murder - Denying justice etc......

In my eyes I know which is worse! :eek:

Emmersonn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbohymac View Post
Great party ff. Michael Martin singing off the rooftops a few days ago that fianna fail or fine Gael wouldn't go into government with sf. Now after seeing how badly his party are doing hes actually open to sharing/forming the next government with fg or sf..
God what a two sided hypocrite..

Yep. Guess he has no choice, the party want it and they'll remove him if he doesn't.


But the sheer cheek all the same.

Ah c'mon now sure is'nt it for the good of the country.;):D

pimpmyhat

Delighted for sinn Fein.
Fed up of people constantly bringing up things from the past to try and keep them down.
Well the people have spoken now.
Time to move on.
The issues are now

pimpmyhat

Delighted for sinn Fein.
Fed up of people constantly bringing up things from the past to try and keep them down.
Well the people have spoken now.
Time to move on.
The issues are now not 40 years ago

tdf7187

billyhead wrote: »

Sinn Fein topping the polls in many constituencies. I believe in democracy but too vote this crowd in as your number 1

Pass the smelling salts, mother, people are voting for parties I don't approve of!

I see sheep

FLaris wrote: »

Granted we’ve always had crooks as politicians, but the people pulling the strings now are murderers. It’s sickening that such scum now have such influence in Irish society.

Ha ha :pac: Sweet Bitter Tears

tdf7187

rtron wrote: »

Let's just get it over with.
Vote them in.
Watch them feck up the country.
Then revote FF in 4 or 7 years whatever it is.

Reading posts from Zanu FF supporters is like going into a parallel universe. It's as though they've forgotten that FF bankrupted the economy twice in living memory. FF's legacy of is that of mass suicides, mass emigration, banking collapses, and corruption.

Is it something in the water supply?

debok

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

He was never convicted of running guns, but he used this as a tactic to improve his republican credentials within FF - against the likes Boland and Blaney.

CJ Haughey is an interesting case.

To the new SF voters does the arms trial supersede all the financial scandals the he was involved in?
Because many of these new SF voters seemed to have voted for SF (involved in protecting murderers who beat a fella plup etc) because they view corruption and fraud as far worse than accessories to murder/sheltering murderers?

Interesting dichotomy. But then again these new young voters are sketchy on thier history?

I don't think their sketchy on their history. It's just the looking back on selective things. Obviously criminality ,all criminality is wrong. But I don't understand how this murder that happened 12 years ago was only really brought into the spotlight just before this election. I think using a grieving family for votes worked against fg and FF because they are in charge since this murder happened and it still hasn't been solved by the gardai . So maybe that points to under resourced gardai. They obviously held back on it during the last election because they weren't concerned about sinn Fein. I'm sorry about my grammar it's the phone and I'm bouncing around in a car here.


Sorry also ya can't defend haughey saying he wasn't convicted of something while you throw out accusations about other people who haven't been convicted of anything.
Goodnight now lads Nightshift soon

Pablo Escobar

tdf7187 wrote: »

Reading posts from Zanu FF supporters is like going into a parallel universe. It's as though they've forgotten that FF bankrupted the economy twice in living memory. FF's legacy of is that of mass suicides, mass emigration, banking collapses, and corruption.

Is it something in the water supply?

Whatever about the past, the SF manifesto makes no sense from a budgetary perspective. The additional income proposed assumes zero elasticity and arrives at €3.8bn as if by magic. But the spend actually outweighs it by €600m. They have never explained how they plan to bridge this gap. Their whole campaign has been fantasy, bake down in populism, that was gladly swallowed by the public.

It's worrying that we can be so taken in. There are issues, clearly. But we need to be realistic in how we deal with them. What I first look for in a their policy was for 'reasons to believe'......the only thing I believe is that they won't get their policies past the Dept. of Finance.

Parkender

Should be interesting to see how many candidates the Kinahans and the Hutch’s run in the next election!!!!!!!!!!!

Earthhorse

Emmersonn wrote: »

Remember Charlie Haughey. Tighten your belt from the man with £200 shirt. Or Bertie Aherne the finance minister who had no bank account of his own, but was so so lucky at betting on horses.or the Fianna Fail goverment who sold our oil and gas rights for brown envelopes and were responsible for literally breaking the country. The Goodman Empire with connections in Fine Gael And both of these parties have screwed us over and over over the past 15 years and we had to provide the K-jel. Ya, why change. :rolleyes: Things might even get better.

Yeah, I do remember them.

If you really think SF is a vote for change I think you’re going to be deeply disappointed. :rolleyes:

tdf7187

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

Whatever about the past, the SF manifesto makes no sense from a budgetary perspective. The additional income proposed assumes zero elasticity and arrives at €3.8bn as if by magic. But the spend actually outweighs it by €600m. They have never explained how they plan to bridge this gap. Their whole campaign has been fantasy, bake down in populism, that was gladly swallowed by the public.

Are you one of those that thinks running a national economy is like a household budget? Oh mate. Do you realise Zanu Fine Fail have put us deeply in hock to the IMF for generations?

Duke of Url

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

Whatever about the past, the SF manifesto makes no sense from a budgetary perspective. The additional income proposed assumes zero elasticity and arrives at €3.8bn as if by magic. But the spend actually outweighs it by €600m. They have never explained how they plan to bridge this gap. Their whole campaign has been fantasy, bake down in populism, that was gladly swallowed by the public.

It's worrying that we can be so taken in. There are issues, clearly. But we need to be realistic in how we deal with them. What I first look for in a their policy was for 'reasons to believe'......the only thing I believe is that they won't get their policies past the Dept. of Finance.

I think are majority are not taken in. It more about everyone knows FG and FF are turning a blind eye to housing, health and crime in the country. Most people want to see if SF are put in a position to deal with these issues. What will they do? They have always been on the sidelines saying what’s wrong with the country. Now they will be in a position to fix them with no excuses.

Still waters

Earthhorse wrote: »

Yeah, I do remember them.

If you really think SF is a vote for change I think you’re going to be deeply disappointed. :rolleyes:

When they start dealing with the behemoth that is the civil service you'll see more of the same until the next election

Cupatae

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have a number of problems with this post, not just the grammar.
There will always be strikes in an open and free democracy, that is how it works. There will always be homelessness unfortunately.

The health sector in Ireland will take years to fix because of many competing interests no matter who is in. I love how you link FG to financial and fraud related stuff - while SF have been linked to bank robberies, murder both North and South in recent history. Obviously murder and protection of murderers are far less important? Also the question of who actually controls SF and needs to protect these types of people?

Most SF voters have clearly came from the younger vote who do not remember the troubles. Nor have they dug behind the face of SF and have fallen for the myth that FG have done badly. There are some people in society who will always do badly no matter who is in charge. That is just the reality of life.

You mention lies and fantasy. If there ever has being party who was adept at this it was SF. As a result it meant no justice for those who have lost thier lives through republican linked violence. If SF became more transparent and honest I would vote for them. But at the moment they talk from both sides of thier mouths, with different strategies in two different jurisdictions.

Also you are ignoring how well FG fared on Brexit and how there is near full employment etc. While SF sat on thier hands over Brexit.

Doesnt the british goverment protect murderers aswell tho? i mean if you are gonna tell a story tell the whole story not just what suits your own agenda. Why did these murders happen in the first place? the troubles was alot more complex than you are making out.

And sur arent FF and FG murdering people to bait the band, in Hospitals around the country, id say the IRA would have a fair bit of work to catch up to that lot!

pimpmyhat

pimpmyhat wrote: »

Fed up of people constantly bringing up things from the past to try and keep them down.
Well the people have spoken now.
Time to move on.

Clearly you or any if your family weren't victims of the IRA, don't think you would feel the same.