What have we come to

Elessar

I'm thinking this might actually be a good thing, longer term.

SF are a populist nonsense party and Mary Lou knows she cannot deliver on any of her promises. Get them into power, watch them be forced to make the tough choices that will alienate their demographic and then watch them get absolutely hammered for it.

This election could actually signal the end for SF long term.

Duke of Url

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What can Sinn Fein do on any of those things. There isn't a housing problem it's everything being centralised in Dublin is the issue there. Health means taking on the unions something Sinn Fein won't do either. Crime, am I the only one knows what happend the head of the Gardas dad, I'd expect him to resign if Sinn Fein end up in power.

I don’t expect SF will do anything to solve these issues. But are been given a chance because others who had the chance refused to fix them.

jmayo

trellheim wrote: »

Does anyone here actually seriously believe housing rents will fall ( by a large amount, over 5-10% ) under a government with SF in it

Hospital waiting lists not without probably an extra 10p in the euro off everyone's pay packet it just isnt possible.

Many other parties out there if you dont like FFG so what about SF appeals to people cos I have to tell you this is ludicrous. PBP are a crowd of economic pingpong heads but they'd be better than SF

I came to a conclusion long ago that a lot of people are fooking idiots.
Feed them a few soundbites, promise them everything and anything and they will bite.

Of course the left of late have being telling us that it is only the voters for Brexit and Trump that are eejits, but look how many voted for Corbyn in the UK and now sinn fein here.

Too many people are becoming disillusioned with the status quo and too many people think someone with a catchy sales pitch can solve their issues and problems.

macwal

Elessar wrote: »

I'm thinking this might actually be a good thing, longer term.

SF are a populist nonsense party and Mary Lou knows she cannot deliver on any of her promises. Get them into power, watch them be forced to make the tough choices that will alienate their demographic and then watch them get absolutely hammered for it.

This election could actually signal the end for SF long term.

That sounds good, but is it worth the risk?


Maybe if I was in my early 20's getting (read, expecting) everything for free, or later in life getting ready to pop my clogs and not really giving a flying, but I'm neither.

BanditLuke

Duke of Url wrote: »

So we should sweep health, housing and crime under the carpet and stick with FG and FF?

Wooooooooosh

wexfordman2

omega man wrote: »

And yet despite all of this you gave FG your first preference.

My comment wasn’t a generalisation nor an “analysis” but simply a comment on ‘some’ people’s thought process, in my experience.

I myself was born and bred in Dublin, have a young family and commute to my place of work in Dublin (as does my partner) from our home outside of Dublin. However I chose not to blame the government because I can’t buy my choice of property in Dublin but I’m the ignorant one...sure.

We can do better as a society, I completely agree on that but a lot of people seem to blame the government for shortcomings in their own personal circumstances. It’s not that simple and if SF enters into government they and their voters will soon realise you can’t fix problems with slogans. Interesting times ahead.

Yes, and I explained exactly why I voted for FG, and for SF, perhaps you would care to point out my flawed logic and how I could have voted effectively against FF (you know, those of the IMF variettz with a potential taoiseach who was a former minister in the sake government), while still keeping some level of check in fg due to their failures in socio economic areasnauch as health, Housing, homelessness, childcare etc

I am very proud of what FG have done in many aspects for this country over the last 5 to ten years, I am very proud of how they have defended and represented Ireland in the international stage in regards to brexit.

I abhore FF, and would not be able to countenance MM as taoiseach if I can avoid it.


Do I expect SF to make a difference ? Absolutely, although perhaps not as a direct result of their own actions, more in the longer term as a serious kick to FF and FG.

Do I expect them to resolve the health services ? Absolutely not, not one political party, not one minister has managed to do so, despite throwing money at it. The problem with the health service, is the health service, is the public sector unions, and no government is going to tackle that.

Duke of Url

BanditLuke wrote: »

Wooooooooosh

Yep. Sorry buddy

I see sheep

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There isn't a housing problem.

There is and it is what won SF the election! But yeah keep telling yourself that man

Any serious health service reforms would involve making thousands of desk workers redundant & replacing them with outsourced admin staff on low wages..... Any party doing that won't be popular.

I see sheep

Elessar wrote: »

I'm thinking this might actually be a good thing, longer term.

SF are a populist nonsense party and Mary Lou knows she cannot deliver on any of her promises. Get them into power, watch them be forced to make the tough choices that will alienate their demographic and then watch them get absolutely hammered for it.

This election could actually signal the end for SF long term.

Ha ha

Love the bitter tears

Elessar

macwal wrote: »

That sounds good, but is it worth the risk?


Maybe if I was in my early 20's getting (read, expecting) everything for free, or later in life getting ready to pop my clogs and not really giving a flying, but I'm neither.

I think it's the only way at this stage. Wouldn't surprise me if there's another election and SF take complete control. I shudder to think what Ireland will be like now.

macwal

I see sheep wrote: »

There is and it is what won SF the election! But yeah keep telling yourself that man

There isn't a housing problem, we have a population problem.


And I don't just mean quantity, it's quality too.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

billyhead wrote: »

Sinn Fein topping the polls in many constituencies. I believe in democracy...

Then that’s it. You believe in democracy. This is democracy.

I see sheep

jmayo wrote: »

Too many people are becoming disillusioned with the status quo.

What do you mean 'too many people'?

People are rightly disillusioned the status quo.

And they have spoken

wexfordman2

macwal wrote: »

That sounds good, but is it worth the risk?


Maybe if I was in my early 20's getting (read, expecting) everything for free, or later in life getting ready to pop my clogs and not really giving a flying, but I'm neither.

So,

Just to clarify, you think that those that voted for SF did so in the expectation of getting freebies ?

That, what looks like now, 25% of the electorate are spongers looking for freebies ?

We have full employment btw, so if you could let us know where the 25% spongers are, let us know.

Always Tired

Why do FFG followers think younger people are going to vote based on the past, rather than the future we see, which has become bleaker and bleaker since the mid 2000's.

There is no future for many of us under the 2 parties that have been in power. Many of us will probably never own our own home. We are being forced to share houses in our 30s and beyond, or live at home. The recovery didnt reach beyond the urban centres. Unless you are a techie it's hard to find anything paying a decent wage.

Nurses and teachers have had to join the unemployed in going abroad at the chance for a fair shake at life.

People saying, "Go ahead and watch them screw up the economy." And saying "You lot have short memories." While you vote Fianna friggin Fail. GTFO. I remember 2008 very well.

As for FG, I also remember the reintroduction of college fees and cut to the grant. It forced me to take a loan out to finish my ordinary degree and have to forego my honours year.

I also remember Jobbridge, the most ill guided scheme ever to help employment. It just replaced the few jobs available and kept me on the breadline while I worked full time only to be shown the door and replaced by another intern after 9 months.

And that's not counting the property tax, the Irish water fiasco, the trolley crisis, countrywide evictions and now the raising of the pension age.

The future as it stands for many is to rent in a shared house with strangers for the rest of your life while you work until youre nearly 70. Yeah we should be delighted to keep the status quo.

We are the first generation that is going to be worse off financially than the one before it. The older generation think we don't understand what you went through in the troubles, well that was in Northern Ireland, and you lot obviously don't under what WE are going through the last 15 years if you think we want to keep things as they are.

I see sheep

macwal wrote: »

There isn't a housing problem, we have a population problem.


And I don't just mean quantity, it's quality too.

If you're going into a immigration rant..

So glad AH posters again have shown they're mostly a far right fringe compared to society.

Less than 1% in exit poll say immigration was their main issue in voting!

Very proud of Irish people for that, Ireland will not become mental Brexit Britain :cool:

debok

Jaysus lads like although sinn Fein aren't the answer fg and FF just got lazy last few years. If your in any job longterm like they have been fir nearly 100 years ya can let things slip. That's what they did, the took people for granted. Fg became totally unrelatable to people. Can you imagine varadkar, Harris or Murphy talking to a farmer. .They be afraid they get but if dirt on their shirts. Maybe this will be a wake-up call for them. The sad fact is Murphy getting back in shows a lot of his constituents are doing well from the homeless and rent crisis. Sinn Fein not miracle workers but at least it shows some people in Ireland are not falling for varadkars spin. Just look at the fact check s on the journal abiut things they've said during the campaign mostly all proved false.
It's a change but we will end up in another election this year

wexfordman2

jmayo wrote: »

I came to a conclusion long ago that a lot of people are fooking idiots.
Feed them a few soundbites, promise them everything and anything and they will bite.

Of course the left of late have being telling us that it is only the voters for Brexit and Trump that are eejits, but look how many voted for Corbyn in the UK and now sinn fein here.

Too many people are becoming disillusioned with the status quo and too many people think someone with a catchy sales pitch can solve their issues and problems.

So,

If you are delusioned about the status quo, who do you vote for ?

trellheim

There is and it is what won SF the election!

SF will not win a majority. What are they running, just 40 candidates ? There are 160-odd seats. At the very most they can win 25% of seats assuming every candidate is elected.

As for the housing crisis ? Which SF policy about it "we'll build more houses" ? Yes you gotta love that cos its what every party has said

I see sheep

trellheim wrote: »

SF will not win a majority. What are they running, just 40 candidates ? There are 160-odd seats.

Really? Yeah cheers for that info. :rolleyes:

Anyone who thinks SF haven't won this election is not dealing in reality.

Duke of Url

Augeo wrote: »

Any serious health service reforms would involve making thousands of desk workers redundant & replacing them with outsourced admin staff on low wages..... Any party doing that won't be popular.

There are way too many Management and Admin staff in the HSE.

You shouldnt need to replace them. Invest the money to where it’s needed.

Public services need to be streamlined and gut the waste and focus on what needs to be improved.

endacl

macwal wrote: »

There isn't a housing problem, we have a population problem.

I like your thinking. There’s nothing wrong with the health service either. There’s just too many people getting sick!

Always Tired

Hilarious how FFG lemmings will tell us we're at full employment and are doing so great under the current regime but the reason SF is rising in popularity is because of so many people being on the dole and wanting free stuff.

Which is it lads? You can't have full employment and then blame the shift that's occurring on wasters. If there was full employment and everyone doing well and full of optimism, there wouldnt be enough 'wasters' to vote for change.

When will you wake up and realize it's not the lads on the dole who are keeping the middle class stretched and stressed, but those above you on the financial scale?

It's akin someone who is living in a small flat begrudging a homeless man living in a cardboard box for what he has while ignoring the fact that his neighbour across town owns 3 houses.

wexfordman2

Balf wrote: »

I agree that we do need to reflect on why this is the electoral outcome being revealed


But can I point out that resolving the inter-generational imbalance that you describe will entail reductions in pension entitlements.


Or, putting it another way, oul lads like you and me expressing surprise that our "lifetime of work" isn't enough to give us what the generation that preceded us got.


The political system hasn't grappled with some issues, or even articulated them well. That's because there's lots of toes they don't want to stand on.


Anyway, if this ends up with SF sharing Government, they'll have to decide who's toes they want to stand on. Their first problem will be recognising the need to befriend people who can actually solve some problems.

Oh, I agree with you, remember, FF's solution to the pension crisis is gauranting an increase of 5euri per week every year for the next five years ! Oh, and to have a look at the retirement age increase (which was their policy initially ).

I am not coming across this from a selfish perspective, I also am in a fairly good position pension wise, and am aiming for retirement a few years early, irrespective of the state pension.

But to expect people to work to 70 and beyond is disgusting, especially when you give yourself and other vested interest a get out clause.

But now we go back to the problem that is facing most young working people today, how do they afford, rent,mortgage, health, childcare and saving for pension.

What a horrible world we have left for them, forcing them to a life of unsustainable rent and housing, creating a childcare industry that they now must finance, and making any hope of retirement at a reasonable age almost unreachable.

If something drastic is not done now to correct these wrongs, we face a horrible future for ourselves and the next few generations.

wexfordman2

endacl wrote: »

I like your thinking. There’s nothing wrong with the health service either. There’s just too many people getting sick!

I suspect he would thing that it's the wrong sort of sick people

Duke of Url

Duke of Url wrote: »

There are way too many Management and Admin staff in the HSE.

You shouldnt need to replace them. Invest the money to where it’s needed.

Public services need to be streamlined and gut the waste and focus on what needs to be improved.

My point is getting rid of them won't make who does it popular.

trellheim

Really? Yeah cheers for that info.

Anyone who thinks SF haven't won this election is not dealing in reality.

Using what metric like imaginary majorities ? Goes well with the imaginary policies.

quokula

We can no longer think we're better than other countries voting for Brexit, Trump, AFD, National Front etc as Ireland now find itself in much the same boat.

To see so many constituencies topped by a party that is nationalist, is populist, pretends complex problems have simple solutions, has a campaign and manifesto built on lies and fantasy, often uses anti-EU rhetoric, and actively engages in climate denial is so utterly depressing. And that's before you get to their direct and active links to violent thugs and criminality.

It's a dark day for Ireland, hopefully whatever government make up we end up with exposes Sinn Fein for who they really are before they can do too much permanent damage to the country.

Billcarson

A great day for Ireland the ff fg sham has been broken. Too many people in this country want to live in the past its people like these who have dragged this country down from fulfilling our true potential .
The awakening started when ff ****ed this country up and
this awakening has only gotten stronger and stronger .