The Sub 3 Support Thread

squinn2912 · 09-09-2019 3:55pm

devilabit wrote: »

I have an outside chance of hitting the sub 3 hour in the DCM and am down for the half marathon at the end of next week. Considering I did a 32km run yesterday what kind of taper should I do this weekend and next week before the half. I would like to see how close I can get to 1.25 in the half to see where I am in regards to the full.

If it’s a priority race then you want to give it a good shot. I’d do some intervals tomorrow. And on Thursday 6 x min on/off. Friday off and Saturday 4 miles easy

healy1835 · 09-09-2019 4:13pm

devilabit wrote: »

I have an outside chance of hitting the sub 3 hour in the DCM and am down for the half marathon at the end of next week. Considering I did a 32km run yesterday what kind of taper should I do this weekend and next week before the half. I would like to see how close I can get to 1.25 in the half to see where I am in regards to the full.

As in a HM on Sat 21st/Sun 22nd? I wouldn't worry too much about tapering this week. Do whatever you might normally do or have planned, maybe cap your LR at 26/28k. Depending on your mileage, try and get some decent miles in on Mon/Tue next week, maybe a 400s session on Wed, turnover stuff not flat out, easy miles Thu and Fri rest.

Of course the question of whether or not to taper for a HM in a Marathon build up is another question entirely

squinn2912 · 09-09-2019 7:29pm

healy1835 wrote: »

As in a HM on Sat 21st/Sun 22nd? I wouldn't worry too much about tapering this week. Do whatever you might normally do or have planned, maybe cap your LR at 26/28k. Depending on your mileage, try and get some decent miles in on Mon/Tue next week, maybe a 400s session on Wed, turnover stuff not flat out, easy miles Thu and Fri rest.

Of course the question of whether or not to taper for a HM in a Marathon build up is another question entirely

Sorry I thought you were racing this week. Agree with every point above... don’t usually abide by it though ðŸ˜‚

Tommy Max · 09-09-2019 8:56pm

Anybody recommend a good physio or physical therapist near merrion square to suit during work or near Lucan? getting some swelling on the knee which is worrying at this stage.

Duanington · 09-09-2019 9:38pm

Tommy Max wrote: »

Anybody recommend a good physio or physical therapist near merrion square to suit during work or near Lucan? getting some swelling on the knee which is worrying at this stage.

Pearse street physio
Conor or Tadhg

rooneyjm · 09-09-2019 11:44pm

devilabit wrote: »

I have an outside chance of hitting the sub 3 hour in the DCM and am down for the half marathon at the end of next week. Considering I did a 32km run yesterday what kind of taper should I do this weekend and next week before the half. I would like to see how close I can get to 1.25 in the half to see where I am in regards to the full.

Bar a few easy miles the day before, no taper. If you take it handy for 3 days before and recovery 3 days after you have lost a weeks training for a “B” race

Tommy Max · 10-09-2019 9:13am

Duanington wrote: »

Pearse street physio
Conor or Tadhg

Thanks for that. I have heard of Aidan woods at that practice. Any 3 of them are very good so I take it?

Please PM me any details with recommendations please.

Cheers all

Sheep1978 · 18-09-2019 10:28am

Well the Rathoath half went better than expected last week, coming in at 1.21.42. Think it defo merits a go at breaking 3 hours. I need to manage and train the next few weeks correctly but nervously confident of going close!!!

Itziger · 18-09-2019 11:16am

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Well the Rathoath half went better than expected last week, coming in at 1.21.42. Think it defo merits a go at breaking 3 hours. I need to manage and train the next few weeks correctly but nervously confident of going close!!!

Sheep, my conversion from Half to Full is poor but I think even I'd manage that!!

(Did miss out on the sub 3 off a 1.22.xx though

)

Sheep1978 · 18-09-2019 11:28am

Itziger wrote: »

Sheep, my conversion from Half to Full is poor but I think even I'd manage that!!

(Did miss out on the sub 3 off a 1.22.xx though )

haha just don't want to be counting any chickens just yet!!

healy1835 · 18-09-2019 11:45am

Itziger wrote: »

Sheep, my conversion from Half to Full is poor but I think even I'd manage that!!

(Did miss out on the sub 3 off a 1.22.xx though )

Don't think I was around these parts for that.......what happened?

Itziger · 18-09-2019 1:20pm

healy1835 wrote: »

Don't think I was around these parts for that.......what happened?

I might have to check the dates (getting old) but if memory serves me, I did a 1.22.3x or maybe .4x at the end of June and trained for Frankfurt.

Cramped early on, soon after halfway, semi-recovered for a few kms but things got ugly from about km 28 till finish. Calf and hamstring cramps. Hobbled home in 3.12 or 3.13

It was my first serious crack at sub 3 'n all. i think that was 2014.

Did another 1.22 in 2015 and also missed the sub 3!!

(Will check old Garmin records later to confirm)

Sheep1978 · 18-09-2019 2:21pm

Thanks Itziger. Like showing somone, who's afraid of sailing, a documentary on the titanic hust before they step on a boat for the first time!!!!!

Tigerandahalf · 18-09-2019 3:19pm

Itziger, out of interest what sort of mileage were you doing for those marathon attempts?

Itziger · 18-09-2019 7:35pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Itziger, out of interest what sort of mileage were you doing for those marathon attempts?

Good question. Not very high and not very low. Probably about 60 miles for the core of the training. I just think I'm a slow learner when it comes to marathons. The negative is that it takes me years to improve but the positive is that I'm still improving! (At least I think I am. I'll get back to ye on Dec. 1st afternoon)

My marathon progression is (approx) as follows. Not counting training/prep marathons.

2011 - Aim 3.10 Result 3.32
2011 - Aim 3.10 Result 3.25
then, 3.14, 3.12, 3.09, 3.05, 3.03, 2.59.

Thing is, I can run a 3.08 with little prep or 29 degrees of heat. But those extra 10 minutes........I'm hoping for sub 2.55 this time around. A 4 minute PB at the tender age of 54.

rooneyjm · 19-09-2019 9:15pm

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Well the Rathoath half went better than expected last week, coming in at 1.21.42. Think it defo merits a go at breaking 3 hours. I need to manage and train the next few weeks correctly but nervously confident of going close!!!

I’d say you’re nailed on

squinn2912 · 19-09-2019 10:27pm

rooneyjm wrote: »

I’d say you’re nailed on

I agree with this. You ran a half at like 6:10s. Go on out easy at 6:50 until 14 then bang on a bit

Sheep1978 · 20-09-2019 12:23pm

Body is still slightly in recovery mode since last Saturday but trying to come up with a plan for the HM tomorrow which I'll incorporate into a longer session. Considering one of two options. Any thoughts.?:

- 4m easy w/u, 2m/4m/4m/4m @MP with 0.5m easy in between, 1m easy c/d

- 6m easy w/u, HM at MP, 1m easy c/d

Itziger · 20-09-2019 1:02pm

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Body is still slightly in recovery mode since last Saturday but trying to come up with a plan for the HM tomorrow which I'll incorporate into a longer session. Considering one of two options. Any thoughts.?:

- 4m easy w/u, 2m/4m/4m/4m @MP with 0.5m easy in between, 1m easy c/d

- 6m easy w/u, HM at MP, 1m easy c/d

Tbh, the second just looks so much less complicated, I'd do that one. You'd need to take the W/U nice and easy though.

The problem with the first is, let's say you come to a water station just as you're starting an MP section, or a hill or I don't know what. If you were to do something like plan A above, why not make it 3x5miles at M and the 800 cruise between.

Tommy Max · 26-09-2019 11:34am

What sort of key workouts would any of the experienced marathoners here recommend over the next few weeks?

How far out do you plan to do your last real long run of 20-22 miles? 3 weeks or 2 weeks out?

Anybody recommend a good running belt for carrying gels etc that is not bulky and wont bounce around?

Thanks

MrMacPhisto · 26-09-2019 12:49pm

Tommy Max wrote: »

Anybody recommend a good running belt for carrying gels etc that is not bulky and wont bounce around?

Thanks

I use the flip belt. I can carry phone, gels, keys etc with no bounce. I have worn for a few marathons with just gels. Its good but you probably need to practice removing the gels while running at marathon pace. 25-30 euro I think.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/flipbelt-classic-violet-l/

Diablo Verde · 26-09-2019 1:06pm

MrMacPhisto wrote: »

I use the flip belt. I can carry phone, gels, keys etc with no bounce. I have worn for a few marathons with just gels. Its good but you probably need to practice removing the gels while running at marathon pace. 25-30 euro I think.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/flipbelt-classic-violet-l/

Same here. Best belt I've used.

muloc · 26-09-2019 3:37pm

Tommy Max wrote: »

What sort of key workouts would any of the experienced marathoners here recommend over the next few weeks?

How far out do you plan to do your last real long run of 20-22 miles? 3 weeks or 2 weeks out?

Thanks

last long one 3 weeks out so 22,20,15,10,DCM

Itziger · 26-09-2019 3:47pm

Diablo Verde wrote: »

MrMacPhisto wrote: »

I use the flip belt. I can carry phone, gels, keys etc with no bounce. I have worn for a few marathons with just gels. Its good but you probably need to practice removing the gels while running at marathon pace. 25-30 euro I think.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/flipbelt-classic-violet-l/

Same here. Best belt I've used.

You two employed by this crowd by any chance?? Or maybe ye're influencers ðŸ˜

MrMacPhisto · 26-09-2019 3:52pm

Itziger wrote: »

You two employed by this crowd by any chance?? Or maybe ye're influencers ðŸ˜

We can deliver to Luxembourg or Tyris on Tap

TheBazman · 26-09-2019 7:15pm

Another alternative are shorts like these - there's a pouch in the front with a zipped pocket underneath, another zipped pocket in the back and two small net type pouches on the side/rear. Sounds like you would end up with your shorts around your knees but it actually works and is comfortable to wear.

https://www.decathlon.ie/ie_en/men-s-trail-running-baggy-shorts-en-s145971.html

healy1835 · 26-09-2019 8:17pm

I've a pair of these....decent storage for a pair of racing shorts. Worn them in a couple of marathons, no compaints.

https://www.ronhill.com/stride-cargo-racer-short

MonkstownHoop · 27-09-2019 8:42am

Looks like my sub 3 dream is over for this year, came out of the half with a quad injury, was hitting 6.20 a mile until it struck in the last mile and hobbled home in 1.24, had physio and dry needling Monday and it generally felt better in my day to day activities, went for a short run yesterday to see how it felt and didn't get half a mile, physio again this afternoon but it's looking like just getting around the course will be my only option.

Sheep1978 · 27-09-2019 2:26pm

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

Looks like my sub 3 dream is over for this year, came out of the half with a quad injury, was hitting 6.20 a mile until it struck in the last mile and hobbled home in 1.24, had physio and dry needling Monday and it generally felt better in my day to day activities, went for a short run yesterday to see how it felt and didn't get half a mile, physio again this afternoon but it's looking like just getting around the course will be my only option.

Sorry to hear that lad. Hopefully good news at the physio today

rooneyjm · 27-09-2019 7:08pm

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

Looks like my sub 3 dream is over for this year, came out of the half with a quad injury, was hitting 6.20 a mile until it struck in the last mile and hobbled home in 1.24, had physio and dry needling Monday and it generally felt better in my day to day activities, went for a short run yesterday to see how it felt and didn't get half a mile, physio again this afternoon but it's looking like just getting around the course will be my only option.

It might not be over yet, still a month to go. Take a week off and see how it goes. I’d have to question the logic of an all out HM on that course a month before your goal race.

kerrylad1 · 30-09-2019 11:12am

Pmaldini wrote: »

subzero3 from these parts ran 2.39.xx in Boston yesterday, a 10 min PB on London last year, very well done John

Girl I work with,who follows John on strava,just showed me his run from Berlin yesterday.2:33.Fantastic running.

kerrylad1 · 30-09-2019 11:14am

healy1835 wrote: »

I've a pair of these....decent storage for a pair of racing shorts. Worn them in a couple of marathons, no compaints.

https://www.ronhill.com/stride-cargo-racer-short

Would you squeeze 4 gels into the pockets?Thinking of buying these,for dcm.

boydkev · 30-09-2019 12:05pm

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Would you squeeze 4 gels into the pockets?Thinking of buying these,for dcm.

I have these shorts and they are great, i can fit 2-3(bigger High 5 Isogels) in the back zip pocket with some salt capsules and the new version of the shorts has a mesh gel pocket on either side of the zip pocket, Previous version had elasticated loops which did not work as gels fell out when i ran. So i would say 4 gels would easily fit in the new version

Singer · 30-09-2019 12:47pm

healy1835 wrote: »

I've a pair of these....decent storage for a pair of racing shorts. Worn them in a couple of marathons, no compaints.

https://www.ronhill.com/stride-cargo-racer-short

These things better work! :pac:

I ended up getting them on amazon.co.uk as checkout didn't work for me on the run4it website.

Pmaldini · 30-09-2019 2:04pm

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Girl I work with,who follows John on strava,just showed me his run from Berlin yesterday.2:33.Fantastic running.

he is an incredible runner, he only started running a few years ago, he took another 6 mins off his PB, i think the sub 2.30 is now very much on the cards for him.

healy1835 · 30-09-2019 2:10pm

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Girl I work with,who follows John on strava,just showed me his run from Berlin yesterday.2:33.Fantastic running.

Got some great screen time on German TV, was running with the lead German lady for a good stretch

On the shorts front.....I guarantee nothing! They are good though, and will probably wear them again, depending on how many people i rope into holding gels for me @DCM.

Swashbuckler · 30-09-2019 2:26pm

Pmaldini wrote:

he is an incredible runner, he only started running a few years ago, he took another 6 mins off his PB, i think the sub 2.30 is now very much on the cards for him.

Definitely. You should see his splits from 24 miles on. Plenty to improve on. He happens to work in the same place as me. Huge gains made over the last few years.

Pmaldini · 30-09-2019 4:09pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Definitely. You should see his splits from 24 miles on. Plenty to improve on. He happens to work in the same place as me. Huge gains made over the last few years.

that industrial park is like a running track at various times during the day:D:D

Swashbuckler · 30-09-2019 6:38pm

Pmaldini wrote:

that industrial park is like a running track at various times during the day

Haha it sure is. I'm guessing you must have seen me at some point then.

Ranleth · 08-10-2019 2:07pm

healy1835 wrote: »

I've a pair of these....decent storage for a pair of racing shorts. Worn them in a couple of marathons, no compaints.

https://www.ronhill.com/stride-cargo-racer-short

Picked up these for only €26 + €4 delivery (I ended up buying a few other things too). Some good prices here and quick delivery.

https://www.sportsshoes.com/product/ron2838/ronhill-stride-cargo-racer-shorts-~-ss19/

Only worn them once but so far so good!

justfortherecor · 19-10-2019 9:05am

Hoping for a (just under) 3hr attempt this year at the DCM. Wonder if there's any advice from people who've done it before on using the Pacers. Imagine the 3hr pacing group is one of the busier groups, certainly early on anyway? Had anticipated holding slightly back for first few Kms and then trying to rejoin during the Park when things have stretched out a bit.

Any tips/tactics more generally on how people approach those first few Kms would be much appreciated!

Slow_Runner · 19-10-2019 9:35am

justfortherecor wrote: »

Hoping for a (just under) 3hr attempt this year at the DCM. Wonder if there's any advice from people who've done it before on using the Pacers. Imagine the 3hr pacing group is one of the busier groups, certainly early on anyway? Had anticipated holding slightly back for first few Kms and then trying to rejoin during the Park when things have stretched out a bit.

Any tips/tactics more generally on how people approach those first few Kms would be much appreciated!

I'd be wary of trying to make up time in the park, Chesterfield Ave is a climb which will sap the energy from your legs, might be better to reel in the pacers when you re enter the park at Knockmaroon gate, nice downhill section here (the downhill after Castleknock might be too steep and trash your quads for later in the race).

Tigerandahalf · 19-10-2019 9:50am

First 5 miles should be run upto 10 secs per mile slower. I'd be wary of being in a big group too. A huge amount of bottles get thrown on the ground. You need to watch your step.

I am hoping to do those first 5 miles (upto Castleknock) @6.55 pace and then gradually pick it up. A friend on Strava ran a 2.58 @6.48 average pace. He was slower for those earlier miles. I have my watch set up with an average mile pace reading so will go by that.

browne_rob5 · 19-10-2019 10:22am

Last year for the first half I ran around 300/400 metres behind the pacing group so I used them to manage my pace without having to deal with the crowd. For the second half it split in 2 so I ran at the top of the of one of the groups for a few miles. You will have a lot of people falling away in the second half so the groups become smaller. I felt good so headed off on my own for the last third. That worked will for me.

squinn2912 · 19-10-2019 12:34pm

I’d allow them to move on I think all three go out too fast (my experience in 6xDCM). I did 2:54 last year and was just staying with them for the first 10 miles. I think you’ll work best by planning to close the gap on some downhills and from 15 onwards. They’ll cut the pace right down from 22 which begs the question why crucify people early on. Might not be the most popular thing to say on here but it’s my opinion

Singer · 19-10-2019 1:55pm

Pretty clear advice here and lines up with my plan for a first go at sub-3. The last two years I've run a negative split in Dublin and this year will be no different.

For the first 7 miles I'm not going to do any quicker than 7:00. The next 3 miles through the park and over the river will be fast, but not pushing things. Then it's time to get settled into the pace until half-way but going very easy up the hills. Hopefully by half-way I'll be around the pace groups and will push on if feeling good. Easier said than done of course

kerrylad1 · 19-10-2019 2:53pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

I’d allow them to move on I think all three go out too fast (my experience in 6xDCM). I did 2:54 last year and was just staying with them for the first 10 miles. I think you’ll work best by planning to close the gap on some downhills and from 15 onwards. They’ll cut the pace right down from 22 which begs the question why crucify people early on. Might not be the most popular thing to say on here but it’s my opinion

Hi S.What is ur target,next week?

squinn2912 · 19-10-2019 3:13pm

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Hi S.What is ur target,next week?

I’m out buddy, ankle one leg and groin the other. Not enough training in me since early August. Back running but with issues persisting I’m not sure if I should take a break or not. 1:25 HM in DUNE last week though lol

Marty Bird · 19-10-2019 4:18pm

Singer wrote: »

Pretty clear advice here and lines up with my plan for a first go at sub-3. The last two years I've run a negative split in Dublin and this year will be no different.

For the first 7 miles I'm not going to do any quicker than 7:00. The next 3 miles through the park and over the river will be fast, but not pushing things. Then it's time to get settled into the pace until half-way but going very easy up the hills. Hopefully by half-way I'll be around the pace groups and will push on if feeling good. Easier said than done of course

I assume your in wave 1. What time would you need to be at the start line to get a good position? Thanks.

Singer · 19-10-2019 8:09pm

Marty Bird wrote: »

I assume your in wave 1. What time would you need to be at the start line to get a good position? Thanks.

Probably about 15 minutes before the race starts.

The Sub 3 Support Thread

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