The Sub 3 Support Thread

Gavlor

pgarr wrote: »

Hi all,

I heard you like running sub 3 marathons I want to run a sub 3 also. I've got about a years experience running - previous results :

Clonakilty Waterfront marathon - December 2016 : 3h :26m

Connemara Ultra - April 2017 : 4h:37m - splits -

13.1 miles - 1:34:42
26.2 miles : 1:30:06
39.3 miles : 1:32:18

That race was last weekend and I'm planning my next target. I want it to be a 2.50 attempt and at a boston qualifier.

I will say that during this training I did a tempo run each Thursday and was maintaining at or quicker than 6:30 for 8 miles at the peak. I felt strong throughout. I have never tested this type of pacing over a longer distance.

I don't have any races done at 10k or half marathon distance. My history aside from the above are charity 5ks here and there.

In training for connemara I had strava estimates of -

10k : 38:17
5k : 18:49

Both were done amidst a tempo run.

My best estimate half was in Connemara last week at 1:29:51.

I am looking at Longford in August as it would allow for a good training block and I can get it done before my mates wedding in September.

I don't have a lot of miles under my belt. I didn't go through a structured plan until Connemara. I have so much to learn and am looking for advise wherever I can get it.

I am looking for opinions on how I should approach this goal. I am not with a club currently and am planning to go down to Galway Harriers this week to join (mainly for the knowledge). I also have got both the Hanson Marathon Method and Advanced Marathoning books. My plan 2 weeks ago was to use 1 of the high mileage plans for my next target.

I've been reviewing this thread and it is full of inspiring stories. A great source of info .

Padraig.

Train with the fast guys in the club, it'll bring you on leaps and bounds.

Its exactly what I'll be doing if I ever start running seriously.

Working class heroes

pgarr wrote: »

Hi all,

I heard you like running sub 3 marathons I want to run a sub 3 also. I've got about a years experience running - previous results :

Clonakilty Waterfront marathon - December 2016 : 3h :26m

Connemara Ultra - April 2017 : 4h:37m - splits -

13.1 miles - 1:34:42
26.2 miles : 1:30:06
39.3 miles : 1:32:18

That race was last weekend and I'm planning my next target. I want it to be a 2.50 attempt and at a boston qualifier.

I will say that during this training I did a tempo run each Thursday and was maintaining at or quicker than 6:30 for 8 miles at the peak. I felt strong throughout. I have never tested this type of pacing over a longer distance.

I don't have any races done at 10k or half marathon distance. My history aside from the above are charity 5ks here and there.

In training for connemara I had strava estimates of -

10k : 38:17
5k : 18:49

Both were done amidst a tempo run.

My best estimate half was in Connemara last week at 1:29:51.

I am looking at Longford in August as it would allow for a good training block and I can get it done before my mates wedding in September.

I don't have a lot of miles under my belt. I didn't go through a structured plan until Connemara. I have so much to learn and am looking for advise wherever I can get it.

I am looking for opinions on how I should approach this goal. I am not with a club currently and am planning to go down to Galway Harriers this week to join (mainly for the knowledge). I also have got both the Hanson Marathon Method and Advanced Marathoning books. My plan 2 weeks ago was to use 1 of the high mileage plans for my next target.

I've been reviewing this thread and it is full of inspiring stories. A great source of info .

Padraig.

Well Padraig.
Considering you ran a 3:02 with a 1:34 HM warm up I'd say a sub 3 is a gimme and a 2:50 is only a matter of time

S.L.F.

pgarr wrote: »

Hi all,

I heard you like running sub 3 marathons I want to run a sub 3 also. I've got about a years experience running - previous results :

Clonakilty Waterfront marathon - December 2016 : 3h :26m

Connemara Ultra - April 2017 : 4h:37m - splits -

13.1 miles - 1:34:42
26.2 miles : 1:30:06
39.3 miles : 1:32:18

That race was last weekend and I'm planning my next target. I want it to be a 2.50 attempt and at a boston qualifier.

I will say that during this training I did a tempo run each Thursday and was maintaining at or quicker than 6:30 for 8 miles at the peak. I felt strong throughout. I have never tested this type of pacing over a longer distance.

I don't have any races done at 10k or half marathon distance. My history aside from the above are charity 5ks here and there.

In training for connemara I had strava estimates of -

10k : 38:17
5k : 18:49

Both were done amidst a tempo run.

My best estimate half was in Connemara last week at 1:29:51.

I am looking at Longford in August as it would allow for a good training block and I can get it done before my mates wedding in September.

I don't have a lot of miles under my belt. I didn't go through a structured plan until Connemara. I have so much to learn and am looking for advise wherever I can get it.

I am looking for opinions on how I should approach this goal. I am not with a club currently and am planning to go down to Galway Harriers this week to join (mainly for the knowledge). I also have got both the Hanson Marathon Method and Advanced Marathoning books. My plan 2 weeks ago was to use 1 of the high mileage plans for my next target.

I've been reviewing this thread and it is full of inspiring stories. A great source of info .

Padraig.

By the sounds of what I've read its only a matter of time before you're competing for Ireland.
How old are you?
For someone with only a year behind them and no club you sound very promising.
A great benefit to this forum for sure.

pgarr

S.L.F. wrote: »

By the sounds of what I've read its only a matter of time before you're competing for Ireland.
How old are you?
For someone with only a year behind them and no club you sound very promising.
A great benefit to this forum for sure.

Thank you for the motivation SLF! I have to say it made my day to see a comment like this ðŸ˜

I'm 29. I did not find running until last year so I have a lot of miles catching up to do!

I'm still figuring a lot of stuff out. This forum is a great benefit to me and I hope i can repay it to some extent.

pgarr

Working class heroes wrote: »

Well Padraig.
Considering you ran a 3:02 with a 1:34 HM warm up I'd say a sub 3 is a gimme and a 2:50 is only a matter of time

Thanks for the encouragement Working class . Its hard to know what the goal should be when I don't know a lot about my own running.

I guess I'll find out !

Itziger

pgarr wrote: »

Thanks for the encouragement Working class . Its hard to know what the goal should be when I don't know a lot about my own running.

I guess I'll find out !

You'll find out alright. Just like the rest of us, from mere mortals (90%) to the best in the world. I think even your Bekeles and Gerbresalassies - and Mo Farahs - had to learn the marathon, if that is the distance that interests you. First though, get a decent coach and/or plan and/or training group. Put in a decent block of training and give it a lash. The hardest part will be finding the balance between too aggressive and too conservative. But you've got time. If you're new to running, that 'Ultra' time is indeed impressive. See how training goes and adapt the target. Within a year or so (1 or 2 marathons) you'll have a much better idea of your ability and limits. But you won't know them exactly yet.

Good luck and stick around. Keep us posted.

pgarr

Itziger wrote: »

You'll find out alright. Just like the rest of us, from mere mortals (90%) to the best in the world. I think even your Bekeles and Gerbresalassies - and Mo Farahs - had to learn the marathon, if that is the distance that interests you. First though, get a decent coach and/or plan and/or training group. Put in a decent block of training and give it a lash. The hardest part will be finding the balance between too aggressive and too conservative. But you've got time. If you're new to running, that 'Ultra' time is indeed impressive. See how training goes and adapt the target. Within a year or so (1 or 2 marathons) you'll have a much better idea of your ability and limits. But you won't know them exactly yet.

Good luck and stick around. Keep us posted.

That is some great advice Itziger. That question of finding the right balance is reason enough to lace up every day.

I will keep my logs on boards going forward. Thanks again for the thoughtful response!

Itziger

pgarr wrote: »

That is some great advice Itziger. That question of finding the right balance is reason enough to lace up every day.

I will keep my logs on boards going forward. Thanks again for the thoughtful response!

If you're lacing up everyday, you're halfway there already!

Itziger

How are people doing? As I don't have a log, well the Logging a Dead Horse is probably still out there, I post some key sessions here. I've tried something a little different lately. Instead of beating meself up with 20 odd kms of MP I decided to do reps of the pace instead. So last week did 3 reps of 8km @ MP in a long run and this week did 3x9k. I naughtily increased the rec time from 2 to 3 minutes as well. It's tough, I'd be lying if I said otherwise. The 9.08k segments today came in at 37.51, 38.06 and 38.21. I use the rec time to fuel up and walk/jog.

I'm hoping the fact that I'd done a session on Thursday balances out the difficulty I felt a bit.

For next weekend, if I do try 3x10k, I think I'd do all easy stuff during the week.

Suggestions and comments welcome.

ger664

Just starting back myself this week but dont know if I will be aiming for 3 next spring. Need to get to 19min 5K and thats a long way off. I kinda did a TBL on it with the diet recently so a summer of healthy eating and training might get me to that mark by October.

As regards the sessions If you are going to the 3*10K you will need the 4 min recovery I think its a very hard session, if you are going to take it easy do it the week after the session as it will be more beneficial then.

I would prefer 3*7K with 4-5 mins recovery at steady pace (MP +~30secs). Steady recovery is better then walk/slow easy paces as it doesn't allow you to fully recover between reps. Again this is a very race specific workout and probably best for the last few weeks before your taper.

Itziger

ger664 wrote: »

Just starting back myself this week but dont know if I will be aiming for 3 next spring. Need to get to 19min 5K and thats a long way off. I kinda did a TBL on it with the diet recently so a summer of healthy eating and training might get me to that mark by October.

As regards the sessions If you are going to the 3*10K you will need the 4 min recovery I think its a very hard session, if you are going to take it easy do it the week after the session as it will be more beneficial then.

I would prefer 3*7K with 4-5 mins recovery at steady pace (MP +~30secs). Steady recovery is better then walk/slow easy paces as it doesn't allow you to fully recover between reps. Again this is a very race specific workout and probably best for the last few weeks before your taper.[/QUOTE]

Ger, thanks for replying. I agree that steady rec is better than walk/jog but I think I need more than 3x7k at this stage. I also want to be running MP stuff with as many kms under the belt already, even if some of them are easy warm up. I've only got 4 weeks to go, including today's effort, so really just 3 or 4 more hard sessions. If I do something big next weekend (3 weeks out) that would probably be the last of the really long runs before June 4th. Midweek is different, I'm looking to do something a little bit spicier pace-wise then but Thursdays usually suit better than Wednesdays.

overpronator

3x10k at MP seems like overkill in my opinion. Thats gonna be pretty stressful on your body unless your MP is pretty conservative. 3x 8k would be a peak session for most.
Tergat in the past alluded to not doing super hero sessions and worrying more about consistency, for me at least that 3x10k would crease me for a week.

I did London recently and the two big MP sessions for me were 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 mile at Mp off 800 recovery and 20 with 12 miles at MP.

AuldManKing

Itziger wrote: »

How are people doing? As I don't have a log, well the Logging a Dead Horse is probably still out there, I post some key sessions here. I've tried something a little different lately. Instead of beating meself up with 20 odd kms of MP I decided to do reps of the pace instead. So last week did 3 reps of 8km @ MP in a long run and this week did 3x9k. I naughtily increased the rec time from 2 to 3 minutes as well. It's tough, I'd be lying if I said otherwise. The 9.08k segments today came in at 37.51, 38.06 and 38.21. I use the rec time to fuel up and walk/jog.

I'm hoping the fact that I'd done a session on Thursday balances out the difficulty I felt a bit.

For next weekend, if I do try 3x10k, I think I'd do all easy stuff during the week.

Suggestions and comments welcome.

3x10k - Thats a monster session - how do you progress from that?

Even to attempt that, it would be the cumilation of some progressive sessions building up to that one a few weeks out from goal race.

Take a look at the progression in this doc that I followed for my Sub 3. I mixed this with P&D and some longer MP runs in some HM's/10m races.

http://www.bournemouthac.co.uk/training/BAC_Marathon_Sessions_2016.pdf

Itziger

overpronator wrote: »

3x10k at MP seems like overkill in my opinion. Thats gonna be pretty stressful on your body unless your MP is pretty conservative. 3x 8k would be a peak session for most.
Tergat in the past alluded to not doing super hero sessions and worrying more about consistency, for me at least that 3x10k would crease me for a week.

I did London recently and the two big MP sessions for me were 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 mile at Mp off 800 recovery and 20 with 12 miles at MP.

Again, interesting. You say 3x8k would be peak but I see people doing 24/25k continuous. I am wondering about the recovery though. Maybe I'd be better off doing fewer PM kms but with steady recs. Thing is the breaks gave me time to take a gel and some water.

I'm not aiming for super-hero status at all! Just sub 3. I'll get back to ye here if the body finds it tough to recover from today. Keep the ideas flowing. That's what's best about this thread. Anyone got link to the Tergat post from way back when?? Much appreciated.

Itziger

AuldManKing wrote: »

3x10k - Thats a monster session - how do you progress from that?

Even to attempt that, it would be the cumilation of some progressive sessions building up to that one a few weeks out from goal race.

Take a look at the progression in this doc that I followed for my Sub 3. I mixed this with P&D and some longer MP runs in some HM's/10m races.

http://www.bournemouthac.co.uk/training/BAC_Marathon_Sessions_2016.pdf

Well, I have been building up to it. (I'm not that mad!) I did 12k or so at MP, then 15. a Half race... 20k then decided to change to reps, so did 3x8 last week. 4 weeks out from Cork today.

dublin runner

To be fair, many do the traditional 15 Miles straight at 'MP' so to do 18.6 @MP with recoveries is in my opinion, similar (if not easier).

I usually do 3x(5@MP, .5 @Steady). Would I recommend? Yes.

What makes a good marathon runner? Hitting every training week with total conviction and achieving consistency, not focusing in on one key session or pre-marathon tune up race.

Duanington

Itziger wrote: »

Well, I have been building up to it. (I'm not that mad!) I did 12k or so at MP, then 15. a Half race... 20k then decided to change to reps, so did 3x8 last week. 4 weeks out from Cork today.

On paper it looks like a whopper session alright - but then its hard to judge without context...what does the rest of the week look like? Lots of easy stuff? Another big session?
It does seem like its a session that would take a lot out of most of us but then we're all different

How did you feel after the 3x8? ( not straight after...the days after)

Itziger

Duanington wrote: »

On paper it looks like a whopper session alright - but then its hard to judge without context...what does the rest of the week look like? Lots of easy stuff? Another big session?
It does seem like its a session that would take a lot out of most of us but then we're all different

How did you feel after the 3x8? ( not straight after...the days after)

Needed a couple of easy days as you can imagine. I guess this week will be the same. The rest of the week is usually easy with one faster type session, usually on Thursday. Before the 3x8k I'd done a mixed HM/M paced run and last Thursday I did the following: W/U+4k@M+2k@HM+1K@10k pace and repeat the steps. I took short jog recoveries after the first of the HM 2k bits and all the rest of the reps. So that was 14k of mixed pace. Last few weeks have been coming in between 50 and 70 miles. What I'm wondering to be honest is if I should go for the 3x10k session as the only big one this week. I could do it Saturday or Sunday and have every other run easy. Or should I stick to the ' slightly faster on Thurs and MP on Sunday' routine. It would make the Sunday run tougher, but if I get through it hopefully it stands me in good stead.

Anyone else feel like sharing their training??

and still ricky villa

Itziger wrote: »

Anyone else feel like sharing their training??

I've defected to the dark side until late August.
At the moment, running training consists of maintaining as much of the pace I've built up in the run up to Rotterdam.
So far, it's going quite well though the overall running load is greatly reduced

Krusty_Clown

Itziger wrote: »

Anyone else feel like sharing their training??

What's the point of doing (3 x 8kms) or (3 x 10kms)?

• Confidence booster
• Race specific adaptation
• Simulation (clothes, nutrition, etc).

In each of the above cases, I'm not really seeing what you're getting by doing 3 x 10k instead of 3 x 8km. Yes, there will be a small increase in confidence and adaptation, but I reckon there's probably a fairly sizable increase in risk (injury/overcooking) due to the 20% increase in MP distance.

If you're doing the 'reps' with recovery, then it's not really simulation, unless you are similarly planning on on taking breaks in the race to sort out gels and water, so I'd suggest that your next session should be 3 x 8kms with 800m steady (much as DR suggested). Learn to sort out your water/gels on the hoof, as otherwise it's a very good training session - but you're not getting the appropriate simulation and adaptation. I mean you can still take 10 seconds to go grab a bottle of water, but you don't want your heart-rate dropping back to recovery rates.

Itziger

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What's the point of doing (3 x 8kms) or (3 x 10kms)?

• Confidence booster
• Race specific adaptation
• Simulation (clothes, nutrition, etc).

In each of the above cases, I'm not really seeing what you're getting by doing 3 x 10k instead of 3 x 8km. Yes, there will be a small increase in confidence and adaptation, but I reckon there's probably a fairly sizable increase in risk (injury/overcooking) due to the 20% increase in MP distance.

If you're doing the 'reps' with recovery, then it's not really simulation, unless you are similarly planning on on taking breaks in the race to sort out gels and water, so I'd suggest that your next session should be 3 x 8kms with 800m steady (much as DR suggested). Learn to sort out your water/gels on the hoof, as otherwise it's a very good training session - but you're not getting the appropriate simulation and adaptation. I mean you can still take 10 seconds to go grab a bottle of water, but you don't want your heart-rate dropping back to recovery rates.

Thanks, that's the bit I was wondering about most. I wore a HRM for the first time in a long while yesterday and I'm looking at it now. It does drop back down a lot....... So, you reckon 3x5 miles with 800 Steady would be better than 3x10k with walk/jog rec?

I know you've done the 800m steady before on a number of occasions.

Duanington

Itziger wrote: »

Needed a couple of easy days as you can imagine. I guess this week will be the same. The rest of the week is usually easy with one faster type session, usually on Thursday. Before the 3x8k I'd done a mixed HM/M paced run and last Thursday I did the following: W/U+4k@M+2k@HM+1K@10k pace and repeat the steps. I took short jog recoveries after the first of the HM 2k bits and all the rest of the reps. So that was 14k of mixed pace. Last few weeks have been coming in between 50 and 70 miles. What I'm wondering to be honest is if I should go for the 3x10k session as the only big one this week. I could do it Saturday or Sunday and have every other run easy. Or should I stick to the ' slightly faster on Thurs and MP on Sunday' routine. It would make the Sunday run tougher, but if I get through it hopefully it stands me in good stead.

Anyone else feel like sharing their training??

Personally I think the risk associated with going with the 3x10k and another (faster session) the few days before is too much - the risk is greater than any reward.

The 3x8k with steady recoveries ( as the other lads have suggested) makes more sense to me


Looking through my own training for Berlin last year and the closest thing I did to this session would have been 4x5k@ MP - 1k steady in between

Krusty_Clown

Itziger wrote: »

Thanks, that's the bit I was wondering about most. I wore a HRM for the first time in a long while yesterday and I'm looking at it now. It does drop back down a lot....... So, you reckon 3x5 miles with 800 Steady would be better than 3x10k with walk/jog rec?

I know you've done the 800m steady before on a number of occasions.

Well, it depends on what you mean by 'better'. Also, as we saw on Saturday morning with Nike's sub-2 experiment, everyone responds differently to training stimulus, but...

If by 'better', you mean have a better chance of making the Cork start line in tip-top shape ready for an assault on sub-3, then yes, I personally think 3x8k with 800 steady would be a better result. You may in fact find it easier than your previous encounter (personally I find that thinks start to seize-up when I stop for even brief periods of time). If you do find it slightly easier, I'd think about trying to run it slightly faster. First section = target pace. Second section, try to average a couple of blips quicker. Third one, just try and finish strong and comfortable, hopefully as fast as the second.

But... if by 'better', you mean more suitable training to run a marathon at the target pace, then logically, the closer you can approach the race distance at the prescribed pace, the better will be the training stimulus and adaptation (though not necessarily the preparation). The problem is that you have to balance the risk/reward. Sadly, no-one knows what their breaking point is until they hit it, but as someone who completed around 6,000 miles of training for Berlin last year and found my breaking point with two weeks to go, in my opinion, it's better to arrive at the start-line with a small amount of uncertainty, than it is to not arrive at the start line at all, knowing you crossed the line.

I used to run the 15 miles straight but have over time switched to the 3 x 5 miles w/800 steady, as I don't think there's a huge difference between the two (any benefits from easing back to steady pace, is likely offset by the extra mile), I just find the iterations a little easier to manage psychologically. Let's not forget it is a fairly monster session, so if you need psychological aids to get through it, then so be it.

I just took a look at your HR data for yesterday's 3 x 9km run, and a couple of things spring to mind:
1) It's pretty low: I'd probably be looking at around the 160bpm mark for a similar (relative) level of effort. On race day, my HR is usually a lot lower (156bpm), because of taper, hydration, support, etc. This bodes well for you as it might suggest you are running relatively comfortably within your HR range (though you are a little older than me, so in theory closer to your max).
2) 3 x 9km @MP is savage. You should be full of confidence.
3) Your HR dropped to 125-130bpm during recoveries. This is probably too low and is training you to run good intervals, not run good marathons (though all programs have sessions that include MP and recovery so don't despair!).
4) Your final rep was slower than your first two. It's the same for everyone, but this is what you should be trying to tackle in your next session. You should be training yourself to maintain the pace.

Sorry for the lengthy reply. I think that last session demonstrates that you're ready. In my view, you won't gain much by going further. I'd focus on building on what you have done already, by not taking complete recoveries in between these MP sections and focusing on maintaining (improving) the speed over the later reps.

Itziger

The above response is another example of why we can't lose the Krustys of this Forum. Thanks a million, I'll go away and have a think about that. The HR comments are fantastic too.

hot buttered scones

AuldManKing wrote: »

3x10k - Thats a monster session - how do you progress from that?

Even to attempt that, it would be the cumilation of some progressive sessions building up to that one a few weeks out from goal race.

Take a look at the progression in this doc that I followed for my Sub 3. I mixed this with P&D and some longer MP runs in some HM's/10m races.

http://www.bournemouthac.co.uk/training/BAC_Marathon_Sessions_2016.pdf

I've come across those sessions too, albeit it in a slightly different format on his blog:

http://www.steveway.co.uk/?p=501

I'd be very interested to know how you worked these into the P+D plans. Did you do them instead of the LT and VO2 max sessions?

davedanon

Krusty_Clown wrote:

If by 'better', you mean have a better chance of making the Cork start line in tip-top shape ready for an assault on sub-3, then yes, I personally think 3x8k with 800 steady would be a better result. You may in fact find it easier than your previous encounter (personally I find that thinks start to seize-up when I stop for even brief periods of time). If you do find it slightly easier, I'd think about trying to run it slightly faster. First section = target pace. Second section, try to average a couple of blips quicker. Third one, just try and finish strong and comfortable, hopefully as fast as the second.

What are these 'blips' of which you speak? A unit of measurement with which I am unfamiliar...

jamule

davedanon wrote: »

Krusty_Clown wrote:

If by 'better', you mean have a better chance of making the Cork start line in tip-top shape ready for an assault on sub-3, then yes, I personally think 3x8k with 800 steady would be a better result. You may in fact find it easier than your previous encounter (personally I find that thinks start to seize-up when I stop for even brief periods of time). If you do find it slightly easier, I'd think about trying to run it slightly faster. First section = target pace. Second section, try to average a couple of blips quicker. Third one, just try and finish strong and comfortable, hopefully as fast as the second.

What are these 'blips' of which you speak? A unit of measurement with which I am unfamiliar...

they are the opposite of 'a rake of'

Krusty_Clown

davedanon wrote: »

What are these 'blips' of which you speak? A unit of measurement with which I am unfamiliar...

Haha. I was being deliberately vague. This was my monster session two weeks from Rotterdam.(linky). Laps were 5:36/mile, 5:37/mile, 5:41/mile, so obviously I didn't succeed in taking my own advice (believe me, I would if I could have, but the warm day took it's toll). Ideally, if you can run them slightly quicker as you progress, it's better as it will more closely approximate how things are going to feel on the day. But this is such a tough session, it really doesn't matter too much what the actual digits say afterwards - whether your above, below or bang on target pace - it's the training benefit you get from it that is most important. So the idea is to take confidence from not fading badly as you go through the session, without worrying too much about the actual splits.

Interestingly, the average pace from the run above was: 5:39/mile (which was the number I based my training on (MP sessions, treadmill sessions). Average pace reported by my watch during my marathon? 5:39/mile (reality = 5:43/mile). Bearing in mind there's a lot of inaccuracy in the data recorded during my marathon (at one point my tracklog shows me running backwards, which definitely didn't happen), but there is also a good chunk of inaccuracy in those outdoor MP sessions. So maybe it's just coincidence, or maybe I was training myself to run at the Garmin's inaccurate pace readings.

sideswipe

Quick question in terms of recovery between MP reps- 800 steady, what does that actually mean pace wise? I've always treated steady pace as MP which is obviously incorrect!

RayCun

sideswipe wrote: »

Quick question in terms of recovery between MP reps- 800 steady, what does that actually mean pace wise? I've always treated steady pace as MP which is obviously incorrect!

I asked Krusty that before and he refused to define it adequately

Steady is somewhere between 'easy' and 'marathon pace'

Slow enough that you get a bit of a breather and it isn't just one long MP run, but fast enough that your heart rate doesn't drop down to recovery levels