The Sub 3 Support Thread

Djoucer

Wouldn't worry at all about one poor session.

P &D suggests you can miss up to 10 days before having to revise your target.

Still 15 or so weeks to go.

noelearly

Djoucer wrote: »

Wouldn't worry at all about one poor session.

P &D suggests you can miss up to 10 days before having to revise your target.

Still 15 or so weeks to go.

11 weeks out for me doing Berlin, yeah had a look at the book again last night 9 days more rest to get before I revise my target ðŸ˜

hot buttered scones

noelearly wrote: »

A combination of time restraints (didn't go until 7.30) and tiredness. Im putting it down to me working nights at the moment and me doing a 11 mile Thursday and a 10k race friday night (I know stupid) and another 8 Saturday. I usually have a rest day Monday but with me and my wife working shift it's a bit all over the place regards what days and workouts I do. Two more nights to do now and 2 week holiday then back to days after that, all out of excuses then.

Did you go out at 7:30pm after a night shift? Was it in between nights? I work nights myself every week and they take a lot of getting used too. As far as possible I try to avoid doing long runs after a night shift - if this means moving things around then so be it. In between night shifts I sometimes struggle to hit paces I'd be quite comfortable running on my days off. At other times, I run squire well despite feeling tired. Shift work is a PITA sometimes - everything is off like sleeping patterns, eating etc, and sometimes its difficult to tell whether the fatigue is from work or training. But with 2 weeks holidays and being back on days, you'll feel fresh again soon enough I reckon.

noelearly

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Did you go out at 7:30pm after a night shift? Was it in between nights? I work nights myself every week and they take a lot of getting used too. As far as possible I try to avoid doing long runs after a night shift - if this means moving things around then so be it. In between night shifts I sometimes struggle to hit paces I'd be quite comfortable running on my days off. At other times, I run squire well despite feeling tired. Shift work is a PITA sometimes - everything is off like sleeping patterns, eating etc, and sometimes its difficult to tell whether the fatigue is from work or training. But with 2 weeks holidays and being back on days, you'll feel fresh again soon enough I reckon.

Yeah it's a PITA alright fitting it in during nights, the fact my wife works opposite doesn't help nor does my pesky 3 young kids, they just don't like the idea of standing on a pitch watching me run round in circles haha. Yeah hitting times after a night can be troublesome. Cheers for the reassurances.

Duanington

noelearly wrote: »

Yeah it's a PITA alright fitting it in during nights, the fact my wife works opposite doesn't help nor does my pesky 3 young kids, they just don't like the idea of standing on a pitch watching me run round in circles haha. Yeah hitting times after a night can be troublesome. Cheers for the reassurances.

I wouldn't let 1,2 or even 3 below par sessions this far out have you rethinking targets. Running Berlin myself and have had a few sessions that didn't go according to plan...the flip side is, most have gone to plan.

While I have a target that I'm training towards, I won't be setting that in stone until closer to the race, it might get more ambitious, it might get more conservative....too soon to tell really.

squinn2912

Any marathons coming up after Dublin that have a good course conducive to running a fast marathon? I've been out for 2 months with a verruca that I ended up having to get removed so I'm still another 2 weeks out of running and I don't think that gives enough time to prepare for Dublin. I think it's sold out as well?

Duanington

squinn2912 wrote: »

Any marathons coming up after Dublin that have a good course conducive to running a fast marathon? I've been out for 2 months with a verruca that I ended up having to get removed so I'm still another 2 weeks out of running and I don't think that gives enough time to prepare for Dublin. I think it's sold out as well?

San Sebastian
Seville

November and February I think...both have good reputations

squinn2912

Ha that would be ok for a millionaire! Anyone know of anything closer?

noelearly

squinn2912 wrote: »

Ha that would be ok for a millionaire! Anyone know of anything closer?

You would be surprised lad probably cheaper flying to Seville and paying entry fee and a nights accommodation than it would going down to Clonakilty and doing the marathon they have in December. Depends where your based really.

pgarr

noelearly wrote: »

You would be surprised lad probably cheaper flying to Seville and paying entry fee and a nights accommodation than it would going down to Clonakilty and doing the marathon they have in December. Depends where your based really.

I haven't ran San Sebastian but I can tell you it's a beautiful spot.

I was talking to a woman who does a marathon a month recently. She has to travel abroad to get 1 in sometimes and it's true they are often cheaper elsewhere. Added bonus - excuse for a mini holiday.

ger664

noelearly wrote: »

You would be surprised lad probably cheaper flying to Seville and paying entry fee and a nights accommodation than it would going down to Clonakilty and doing the marathon they have in December. Depends where your based really.

Im doing Sevilie in Feb bringing the young fella (17) as a mobile feed station, €400 all in flights 4 nights AirBNB and race entry. 2 Nights and race entry for Dublin would come to that alone

squinn2912

You lads are making a very compelling argument! I'll have to have a look at it. Breaking my heart not running I trained for 3 months with a verruca giving trouble on my heel. It finally ripped during the second last week of taper and that was 10 weeks ago - one run since. I got the doc to cut it out on Saturday after some serious wastage with a podiatrist and can gently put my foot down today. I'm hoping to be able to run inside two weeks. If extra spaces are made available in Dublin I might do it. Feb is a very hard month to train to peak for.

and still ricky villa

What about Florence at the end of November?
I did it a few years ago and it was surprisingly cheap overall as it's very much off season. Not easy to get direct flights into Florence but if you are ok with a stopover in Amsterdam it's about €350 for two return. Hotels are coming up for that weekend at about €100 a night plus it would be a very easy sell for a better half if you're not travelling alone
Beautiful city

squinn2912

and still ricky villa wrote: »

What about Florence at the end of November?
I did it a few years ago and it was surprisingly cheap overall as it's very much off season. Not easy to get direct flights into Florence but if you are ok with a stopover in Amsterdam it's about €350 for two return. Hotels are coming up for that weekend at about €100 a night plus it would be a very easy sell for a better half if you're not travelling alone
Beautiful city

I'd love to do one away from home at some point but it wouldn't be a racing one. Very hard to do it with all of the traveling. I could just take my better half and watch it! That trip would cost the best part of €1000. Dublin is only an hour away from me I'm from Armagh so maybe all in all if I can get back training soon I can squeeze it a bit and give it a lash. Of course that all depends on additional places becoming available. The last I heard it had sold out. Does anyone know anything about that?

OOnegative

squinn2912 wrote: »

I'd love to do one away from home at some point but it wouldn't be a racing one. Very hard to do it with all of the traveling. I could just take my better half and watch it! That trip would cost the best part of €1000. Dublin is only an hour away from me I'm from Armagh so maybe all in all if I can get back training soon I can squeeze it a bit and give it a lash. Of course that all depends on additional places becoming available. The last I heard it had sold out. Does anyone know anything about that?

Not one bit hard with travelling, people do it week in week out with no issues. Dublin is sold out and doubtful at this point if extra places will come available.

RayCun

squinn2912 wrote: »

I'd love to do one away from home at some point but it wouldn't be a racing one. Very hard to do it with all of the traveling. I could just take my better half and watch it! That trip would cost the best part of €1000. Dublin is only an hour away from me I'm from Armagh so maybe all in all if I can get back training soon I can squeeze it a bit and give it a lash. Of course that all depends on additional places becoming available. The last I heard it had sold out. Does anyone know anything about that?

additional places last year were because it sold out so early, and they brought the total number of places up to this year's number. I don't expect them this year.
Maybe a UK marathon? There are MCI marathons and other small marathons, but nothing in Ireland over the winter I'd target for a sub 3

PaulieYifter

Can recommend San Sebastian.
Have done it twice and got my PB there in 2015.
Pancake flat and fast field - pace groups start at 2:30 - big proportion go sub 3!
I could end up there again myself this year although they've changed the course due to work on the Anoeta stadium.

AuldManKing

PaulieYifter wrote: »

Can recommend San Sebastian.
Have done it twice and got my PB there in 2015.
Pancake flat and fast field - pace groups start at 2:30 - big proportion go sub 3!
I could end up there again myself this year although they've changed the course due to work on the Anoeta stadium.

I second this!! Great place to visit as well.

squinn2912

OOnegative wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

I'd love to do one away from home at some point but it wouldn't be a racing one. Very hard to do it with all of the traveling. I could just take my better half and watch it! That trip would cost the best part of €1000. Dublin is only an hour away from me I'm from Armagh so maybe all in all if I can get back training soon I can squeeze it a bit and give it a lash. Of course that all depends on additional places becoming available. The last I heard it had sold out. Does anyone know anything about that?

Not one bit hard with travelling, people do it week in week out with no issues. Dublin is sold out and doubtful at this point if extra places will come available.

Traveling does make a difference as it changes routine and diet and can also mean a lot of walking just when you want to be resting up. Last year additional places were created in Dublin but as pointed out this year is already at that allocation so unlikely there will be any more

squinn2912

W

PaulieYifter wrote: »

Can recommend San Sebastian.
Have done it twice and got my PB there in 2015.
Pancake flat and fast field - pace groups start at 2:30 - big proportion go sub 3!
I could end up there again myself this year although they've changed the course due to work on the Anoeta stadium.

When is San Sebastian? It sounds quite appealing from your recommendation.

PaulieYifter

squinn2912 wrote: »

W

When is San Sebastian? It sounds quite appealing from your recommendation.

Nov 26th

You have to fly there via Madrid or Barcelona although I think AMK flew to Biarritz and thumbed a lift!

Worth it for the food and it's a lovely town.

Sub 3 or your money back

squinn2912

PaulieYifter wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

W

When is San Sebastian? It sounds quite appealing from your recommendation.

Nov 26th

You have to fly there via Madrid or Barcelona although I think AMK flew to Biarritz and thumbed a lift!

Worth it for the food and it's a lovely town.

Sub 3 or your money back

Hmm the problem is that I wouldn't get the Monday off work. Sounds lovely and I'd love to see that side of Spain. The sub3 or money back is a good deal!

squinn2912

Anybody want to share their training logs that have worked for sub 3 before?

I build up to something like this and it has worked for me.

Monday - 4-6 miles easy (7:45s)
Tuesday - 10 mile tempo (6:25-6:40s) 
Wednesday - 4-6 miles easy
Thursday - Intervals 800m x 10 in 2:50 average with 70 seconds recovery or 4-6 mile repeats 5:50 - 6:10 with 2 mins recovery between each one
Friday - rest or 4 easy
Saturday - LSR - 20 - 22 miles easy pace, every third week I run 4 of the final 6 miles at around 7:20s
Sunday - rest and do stretching and core work

Results in around 45-50 miles per week and I think that's plenty. Thoughts?

Testosterscone

squinn2912 wrote: »

Anybody want to share their training logs that have worked for sub 3 before?

Dug out my provisional plan from last year and attached

There was a bit of chopping and changing throughout the plan and the mileage is generally a bit on the higher side as I was targetting slightly more aggressive target but ultimately I felt worked pretty well

squinn2912

Testosterscone wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Anybody want to share their training logs that have worked for sub 3 before?

Dug out my provisional plan from last year and attached

There was a bit of chopping and changing throughout the plan and the mileage is generally a bit on the higher side as I was targetting slightly more aggressive target but ultimately I felt worked pretty well

I like that it's well laid out, simple and clear. Serious amount of miles and I'm surprised to see how much of it was at an easy pace. How did it go for you with your time?

Testosterscone

squinn2912 wrote: »

I like that it's well laid out, simple and clear. Serious amount of miles and I'm surprised to see how much of it was at an easy pace. How did it go for you with your time?

A few adjustments that were made

* Rock and Roll ran as a session (4,3,2,1 miles MP w/ 1 mile steady between)
** 2 down weeks (50 mpw) due to holidays around Week 9-10)
*** Few missed Long easy runs

Ended up with 2.43 overall but majority of running should be easy aerobic running IMO

squinn2912

Testosterscone wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

I like that it's well laid out, simple and clear. Serious amount of miles and I'm surprised to see how much of it was at an easy pace. How did it go for you with your time?

A few adjustments that were made

* Rock and Roll ran as a session (4,3,2,1 miles MP w/ 1 mile steady between)
** 2 down weeks (50 mpw) due to holidays around Week 9-10)
*** Few missed Long easy runs

Ended up with 2.43 overall but majority of running should be easy aerobic running IMO

I'm intrigued by this! By MP you mean marathon pace? Forgive the stupidity of the question. So if you were to imagine your plan then would it be right to say you have one 'fast' day and the rest is mainly miles. I'm 2:58 but would love a crack at 2:55 the problem is that a training programme never seems to go to plan and then I end up going for similar times. I'm very happy with my times I just think there's more in me and I felt that aggression would bring it out

Testosterscone

squinn2912 wrote: »

I'm intrigued by this! By MP you mean marathon pace? Forgive the stupidity of the question. So if you were to imagine your plan then would it be right to say you have one 'fast' day and the rest is mainly miles. I'm 2:58 but would love a crack at 2:55 the problem is that a training programme never seems to go to plan and then I end up going for similar times. I'm very happy with my times I just think there's more in me and I felt that aggression would bring it out

For Weeks 1-4 this was a base building phase with one key session a week

After this moved to 2 sessions a week (Treat Steady and Progression long runs as quality work).

For 2.55 ball park pace figures would be as follows

Easy pace (8.00-9.00)
Steady Pace (7.10-7.25)
MP (6.35-6.45)
LT (6.20-6.30)

The mileage needs to be high for this sort of approach on a consistent basis though because the sessions are high volume from the start. It may not be one to jump into if you are coming from a low mileage base

(Week 9 for example you have 19 mile session including w/u and cooldown on the Wednesday and 22 miles on the weekend as well)

Aim was all about having the strength there and progressing to intensity rather than building up MP miles as you go on.

Should be noted that your background plays a part here to. This time around my approach is very different (alot more faster than MP work) but I feel it complements the base built up last year.

squinn2912

Testosterscone wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

I'm intrigued by this! By MP you mean marathon pace? Forgive the stupidity of the question. So if you were to imagine your plan then would it be right to say you have one 'fast' day and the rest is mainly miles. I'm 2:58 but would love a crack at 2:55 the problem is that a training programme never seems to go to plan and then I end up going for similar times. I'm very happy with my times I just think there's more in me and I felt that aggression would bring it out

For Weeks 1-4 this was a base building phase with one key session a week

After this moved to 2 sessions a week (Treat Steady and Progression long runs as quality work).

For 2.55 ball park pace figures would be as follows

Easy pace (8.00-9.00)
Steady Pace (7.10-7.25)
MP (6.35-6.45)
LT (6.20-6.30)

The mileage needs to be high for this sort of approach on a consistent basis though because the sessions are high volume from the start. It may not be one to jump into if you are coming from a low mileage base

(Week 9 for example you have 19 mile session including w/u and cooldown on the Wednesday and 22 miles on the weekend as well)

Aim was all about having the strength there and progressing to intensity rather than building up MP miles as you go on.

Should be noted that your background plays a part here to. This time around my approach is very different (alot more faster than MP work) but I feel it complements the base built up last year.

I see what you mean about not jumping into that. I wouldn't attempt miles like that from where I am now (actually been injured for the last 12 weeks, 2 more to go) but I'd try to find a happy medium between my programme and yours, bringing some of the good practice I've had and marrying that to the longer miles while embracing easier running for longer periods.
That Week 9 is very tough. You must take nutrition with you for midweek runs?
What are you going for this year?

noelearly

The Clonmel half for me this weekend aiming for around the 1.25 bracket, should tell me if I'm on course for the 3 hour mark in Berlin.