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The Sub 3 Support Thread

--amadeus--

Not sure if this is a viable thread or not....

There tends to be a lot of support for newbies and improver's (the two mentored DCM threads, the Tri Novice thread for example) but less of a community vibe as you move up the pace. I know a lot of us read each others logs but I'll read 10 for every one I comment in and I'm sure others are the same.

And I know that there are a few of us aiming at sub 3 this autumn. I'm taking a crack at it in Amsterdam, Village Runner and Peckham in Berlin, SunGod in Dublin. I'm sure SloggerJogger is going to take another pop at it as well having come so close. And of course we have a lot of runners who have already gone sub 3 (and faster). And the Sub 3 thread on RunnersWorld is very busy and popular.

So here we go - if it works it works, if it sinks it sinks!

And to start - I'm a little concerned about my weekly mileage. This week is pretty poor (I'll be lucky to get mid 30s) and I've been doing 40s for the last couple of weeks with the intention of doing 6 - 8 weeks of 50 - 60 mpw as teh basis of my attempt.

Do you think that's enough? What sort of mileage are you all doing and planning?

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28064212

The above does not mean that you can rely on your GPS watch to measure 04:13/km pace and get you over the line sub-3. GPS is the inaccurate part here, not the course

squinn2912

Sheep1978 wrote: »

According to Strava I've run 26.36 in both 2017 and 2018. I'm sure everyones varies

That’s a about right for me. Careful with pacers they’ve always gone out faster than I’ve liked for sub3 but that’s just my experience. I’ve done the sub3 a few times by keeping them in sight just then closing the gap gradually after about 15 miles

Ranleth

Yeah, I've benefited from pacers in 10k's and halves before. That's what they're there for I guess!

Tommy Max

Hi Guys. Just curious to see what gels others use or have experience of. Are all the brands pretty much the same? How many gels do you usually take during a marathon?

Bahanaman

Tommy Max wrote:

Hi Guys. Just curious to see what gels others use or have experience of. Are all the brands pretty much the same? How many gels do you usually take during a marathon?

High 5 for me. Easiest to take. Not too gloopy.

splashthecash

I'm going for it this year - this is my fifth marathon and I think my times so far could potentially get me a sub-3 but will require everything to go right on the day

My marathon times so far have been 4:17 (DCM 2016), 4:01 (DCM 2017), 3:27 (Berlin 2018), 3:18 (DCM 2018)

I've put more effort into this years plan and am doing speed sessions now and have incorporated recovery runs so overall mileage is really up - currently doing approx 40-45 mpw which will jump to 55 over the next few weeks

The two runs I've done this summer are 10m (1:04) and Longford Half (1:26)

I'm going to do the Charleville Half and Naas 10k in the coming weeks

healy1835

splashthecash wrote: »

I'm going for it this year - this is my fifth marathon and I think my times so far could potentially get me a sub-3 but will require everything to go right on the day

My marathon times so far have been 4:17 (DCM 2016), 4:01 (DCM 2017), 3:27 (Berlin 2018), 3:18 (DCM 2018)

I've put more effort into this years plan and am doing speed sessions now and have incorporated recovery runs so overall mileage is really up - currently doing approx 40-45 mpw which will jump to 55 over the next few weeks

The two runs I've done this summer are 10m (1:04) and Longford Half (1:26)

I'm going to do the Charleville Half and Naas 10k in the coming weeks

Splashthecash....genius

I don't know what it says about me that I recognised you by your race times rather than your Boards name

won't be a million miles away from it pal....

splashthecash

healy1835 wrote: »

Splashthecash....genius I don't know what it says about me that I recognised you by your race times rather than your Boards name won't be a million miles away from it pal....

Haha - I'm not very original

Legs feeling very heavy this last week - normally happens to me around halfway through the plan every year...gives me the usual "I'm not able for this" thoughts

It always comes right in the end though :pac:

Sheep1978

splashthecash wrote: »

Legs feeling very heavy this last week - normally happens to me around halfway through the plan every year...gives me the usual "I'm not able for this" thoughts

I'm having a serious dose of those thoughts this week:(

devilabit

I have an outside chance of hitting the sub 3 hour in the DCM and am down for the half marathon at the end of next week. Considering I did a 32km run yesterday what kind of taper should I do this weekend and next week before the half. I would like to see how close I can get to 1.25 in the half to see where I am in regards to the full.

squinn2912

devilabit wrote: »

I have an outside chance of hitting the sub 3 hour in the DCM and am down for the half marathon at the end of next week. Considering I did a 32km run yesterday what kind of taper should I do this weekend and next week before the half. I would like to see how close I can get to 1.25 in the half to see where I am in regards to the full.

If it’s a priority race then you want to give it a good shot. I’d do some intervals tomorrow. And on Thursday 6 x min on/off. Friday off and Saturday 4 miles easy

healy1835

devilabit wrote: »

I have an outside chance of hitting the sub 3 hour in the DCM and am down for the half marathon at the end of next week. Considering I did a 32km run yesterday what kind of taper should I do this weekend and next week before the half. I would like to see how close I can get to 1.25 in the half to see where I am in regards to the full.

As in a HM on Sat 21st/Sun 22nd? I wouldn't worry too much about tapering this week. Do whatever you might normally do or have planned, maybe cap your LR at 26/28k. Depending on your mileage, try and get some decent miles in on Mon/Tue next week, maybe a 400s session on Wed, turnover stuff not flat out, easy miles Thu and Fri rest.

Of course the question of whether or not to taper for a HM in a Marathon build up is another question entirely

squinn2912

healy1835 wrote: »

As in a HM on Sat 21st/Sun 22nd? I wouldn't worry too much about tapering this week. Do whatever you might normally do or have planned, maybe cap your LR at 26/28k. Depending on your mileage, try and get some decent miles in on Mon/Tue next week, maybe a 400s session on Wed, turnover stuff not flat out, easy miles Thu and Fri rest.

Of course the question of whether or not to taper for a HM in a Marathon build up is another question entirely

Sorry I thought you were racing this week. Agree with every point above... don’t usually abide by it though ðŸ˜‚

Tommy Max

Anybody recommend a good physio or physical therapist near merrion square to suit during work or near Lucan? getting some swelling on the knee which is worrying at this stage.

Duanington

Tommy Max wrote: »

Anybody recommend a good physio or physical therapist near merrion square to suit during work or near Lucan? getting some swelling on the knee which is worrying at this stage.

Pearse street physio
Conor or Tadhg

rooneyjm

devilabit wrote: »

I have an outside chance of hitting the sub 3 hour in the DCM and am down for the half marathon at the end of next week. Considering I did a 32km run yesterday what kind of taper should I do this weekend and next week before the half. I would like to see how close I can get to 1.25 in the half to see where I am in regards to the full.

Bar a few easy miles the day before, no taper. If you take it handy for 3 days before and recovery 3 days after you have lost a weeks training for a “B” race

Tommy Max

Duanington wrote: »

Pearse street physio
Conor or Tadhg

Thanks for that. I have heard of Aidan woods at that practice. Any 3 of them are very good so I take it?

Please PM me any details with recommendations please.

Cheers all

Sheep1978

Well the Rathoath half went better than expected last week, coming in at 1.21.42. Think it defo merits a go at breaking 3 hours. I need to manage and train the next few weeks correctly but nervously confident of going close!!!

Itziger

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Well the Rathoath half went better than expected last week, coming in at 1.21.42. Think it defo merits a go at breaking 3 hours. I need to manage and train the next few weeks correctly but nervously confident of going close!!!

Sheep, my conversion from Half to Full is poor but I think even I'd manage that!!

(Did miss out on the sub 3 off a 1.22.xx though

)

Sheep1978

Itziger wrote: »

Sheep, my conversion from Half to Full is poor but I think even I'd manage that!!

(Did miss out on the sub 3 off a 1.22.xx though )

haha just don't want to be counting any chickens just yet!!

healy1835

Itziger wrote: »

Sheep, my conversion from Half to Full is poor but I think even I'd manage that!!

(Did miss out on the sub 3 off a 1.22.xx though )

Don't think I was around these parts for that.......what happened?

Itziger

healy1835 wrote: »

Don't think I was around these parts for that.......what happened?

I might have to check the dates (getting old) but if memory serves me, I did a 1.22.3x or maybe .4x at the end of June and trained for Frankfurt.

Cramped early on, soon after halfway, semi-recovered for a few kms but things got ugly from about km 28 till finish. Calf and hamstring cramps. Hobbled home in 3.12 or 3.13

It was my first serious crack at sub 3 'n all. i think that was 2014.

Did another 1.22 in 2015 and also missed the sub 3!!

(Will check old Garmin records later to confirm)

Sheep1978

Thanks Itziger. Like showing somone, who's afraid of sailing, a documentary on the titanic hust before they step on a boat for the first time!!!!!

Tigerandahalf

Itziger, out of interest what sort of mileage were you doing for those marathon attempts?

Itziger

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Itziger, out of interest what sort of mileage were you doing for those marathon attempts?

Good question. Not very high and not very low. Probably about 60 miles for the core of the training. I just think I'm a slow learner when it comes to marathons. The negative is that it takes me years to improve but the positive is that I'm still improving! (At least I think I am. I'll get back to ye on Dec. 1st afternoon)

My marathon progression is (approx) as follows. Not counting training/prep marathons.

2011 - Aim 3.10 Result 3.32
2011 - Aim 3.10 Result 3.25
then, 3.14, 3.12, 3.09, 3.05, 3.03, 2.59.

Thing is, I can run a 3.08 with little prep or 29 degrees of heat. But those extra 10 minutes........I'm hoping for sub 2.55 this time around. A 4 minute PB at the tender age of 54.

rooneyjm

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Well the Rathoath half went better than expected last week, coming in at 1.21.42. Think it defo merits a go at breaking 3 hours. I need to manage and train the next few weeks correctly but nervously confident of going close!!!

I’d say you’re nailed on

squinn2912

rooneyjm wrote: »

I’d say you’re nailed on

I agree with this. You ran a half at like 6:10s. Go on out easy at 6:50 until 14 then bang on a bit

Sheep1978

Body is still slightly in recovery mode since last Saturday but trying to come up with a plan for the HM tomorrow which I'll incorporate into a longer session. Considering one of two options. Any thoughts.?:

- 4m easy w/u, 2m/4m/4m/4m @MP with 0.5m easy in between, 1m easy c/d

- 6m easy w/u, HM at MP, 1m easy c/d

Itziger

Sheep1978 wrote: »

Body is still slightly in recovery mode since last Saturday but trying to come up with a plan for the HM tomorrow which I'll incorporate into a longer session. Considering one of two options. Any thoughts.?:

- 4m easy w/u, 2m/4m/4m/4m @MP with 0.5m easy in between, 1m easy c/d

- 6m easy w/u, HM at MP, 1m easy c/d

Tbh, the second just looks so much less complicated, I'd do that one. You'd need to take the W/U nice and easy though.

The problem with the first is, let's say you come to a water station just as you're starting an MP section, or a hill or I don't know what. If you were to do something like plan A above, why not make it 3x5miles at M and the 800 cruise between.

Tommy Max

What sort of key workouts would any of the experienced marathoners here recommend over the next few weeks?

How far out do you plan to do your last real long run of 20-22 miles? 3 weeks or 2 weeks out?

Anybody recommend a good running belt for carrying gels etc that is not bulky and wont bounce around?

Thanks