The Sub 3 Support Thread

Gavlor

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Jazus, a blast from the past, are you cycling, running or rolling blading these days!

I'm getting so desperate for a sub 3, I'd consider drinking pints of Krustys piss

TbL

Would you ever just go and run it! You're thinking about it way too much.

I'm currently sort of running. I've taken training to a new level for London this year, weekly average is way Less than 30 miles although I have a couple of 7.30 20 milers done the last couple of weeks. Even with those 20 milers my weekly totals for the 2 weeks barely scraped over 30! Should be a fun slog around the streets of London city

gucci

gucci wrote: »

I will be following you guys progress over the next 12 months with great interest as I think I am in the same ball park (3:09:20 in DCM just passed)
If I am honest with myself, my training was not the best, so I probably slightly overachieved on the day, but having said that I done a spring marathon in 3:16 and felt I really had a lot more in the tank so am glad I squeezed a good healthy chunk off it.

Right now I don’t know if I have the dedication and if my actual real life demands will allow me to get the training nailed to take it on again next year, but I will hopefully recuperate over the next few weeks and have a good hard think about it over the Xmas break and try and establish some goals for next year, but it may be a stepping stone year as opposed to being in the position to try and go for it.
I like the idea of focusing on some of the shorter stuff in the first Quarter/ Half of next year though, that already sounds more appealing and probably will fit in better with my life and some of my training buddies schedules too.

I have an overwhelming feeling of self importance by quoting myself.....anyway, just to update. I have made a significant step mentally and physically towards the Sub 3 goal. With a 3:04:18 in Manchester week before last.

Again my training for this one had been far from ideal, but at the same time I largely trained by feel and when I felt good I trained hard, and when I didn't I took it more gentle! The run largely went to plan, but I know that similar to Dublin, my finishing time was about as much as I could wring out of it on the day. If I had tried to go a bit faster earlier I probably would have been in trouble. My sub 3:05 gives me an good for age entry for London next year so that is possibly the race that I will target the sub 3 for.

I am quite comfortable with giving over another training cycle to "building" on where I am right now, and maybe targeting a smaller race for the balls out attempt at the sub 3! As part of me kind of wants to enjoy London and run it a bit more comfortably but that might all change in 12 months time.

I plan to give the rest of the spring over to getting more trail running and some 10k work to build up some speed and strength and hopefully give it a rattle again.

Any advice anyone has for me will greatly be appreciated, but otherwise, keep up the good work and I will be following the progress here closely!

Duanington

gucci wrote: »

I have an overwhelming feeling of self importance by quoting myself.....anyway, just to update. I have made a significant step mentally and physically towards the Sub 3 goal. With a 3:04:18 in Manchester week before last.

Again my training for this one had been far from ideal, but at the same time I largely trained by feel and when I felt good I trained hard, and when I didn't I took it more gentle! The run largely went to plan, but I know that similar to Dublin, my finishing time was about as much as I could wring out of it on the day. If I had tried to go a bit faster earlier I probably would have been in trouble. My sub 3:05 gives me an good for age entry for London next year so that is possibly the race that I will target the sub 3 for.

I am quite comfortable with giving over another training cycle to "building" on where I am right now, and maybe targeting a smaller race for the balls out attempt at the sub 3! As part of me kind of wants to enjoy London and run it a bit more comfortably but that might all change in 12 months time.

I plan to give the rest of the spring over to getting more trail running and some 10k work to build up some speed and strength and hopefully give it a rattle again.

Any advice anyone has for me will greatly be appreciated, but otherwise, keep up the good work and I will be following the progress here closely!

Well done on the PB Gucci

When you say training was less than ideal, what does that mean? Injuries? Illness?

Sounds like you're making significant progress alright - so you're not planning an Autumn marathon? Have you specific target times in mind for other distances?

gucci

Duanington wrote: »

Well done on the PB Gucci

When you say training was less than ideal, what does that mean? Injuries? Illness?

Sounds like you're making significant progress alright - so you're not planning an Autumn marathon? Have you specific target times in mind for other distances?

When I say far from ideal I mean I feel like I just didn't get enough of the mid distance and speed work done that I have done in other cycles.
This time I kind of only got out 3 times a week on average, which was the a parkrun, a LSR and then the medium run with MP miles, sometimes all of these were a Sat-Sun-Mon followed by not much else only a gym session until the following Saturday! This gives me plenty of hope that with a bit more structure I may be able to get some more speed in the legs.

At the moment I am not planning an autumn marathon, I think Sept/October is going to be a bit of a tricky time for me personally, so my training time will be effected for then.

Currently my half marathon PB is 90mins, but I haven't taken one on seriously in over 2 years, so I would like to try and take a chunk off that if I could and it might be a bit easier to maintain the training and race in the potentially difficult (for me) autumn time.

Of course it might be better to try and build on the momentum and largely positive marathon cycles so far and just try and trim another bit off the 3:04 in the autumn. Once I get back to running properly over the next few weeks I will see how I am. Also a few of my training friends are doing London, so when they are recovered I might see what their plans are and that might be the encouragement I need!!

Thankfully I have had a good run of it in last 12 months that I haven't picked up any injuries, but probably a large part of that is down to really listening to my body. I have also focused alot more on trying to more / better quality sleep too which I am sure has helped my general day to day life from not being as tired from training as much as the actual injury prevention and recovery.

davedanon

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

I'm getting so desperate for a sub 3, I'd consider drinking pints of Krustys piss

TbL

I'd be slightly concerned with the implication that there might be something in Krusty's piss that might aid TbL's performance somehow....

Duanington

gucci wrote: »

When I say far from ideal I mean I feel like I just didn't get enough of the mid distance and speed work done that I have done in other cycles.
This time I kind of only got out 3 times a week on average, which was the a parkrun, a LSR and then the medium run with MP miles, sometimes all of these were a Sat-Sun-Mon followed by not much else only a gym session until the following Saturday! This gives me plenty of hope that with a bit more structure I may be able to get some more speed in the legs.

At the moment I am not planning an autumn marathon, I think Sept/October is going to be a bit of a tricky time for me personally, so my training time will be effected for then.

Currently my half marathon PB is 90mins, but I haven't taken one on seriously in over 2 years, so I would like to try and take a chunk off that if I could and it might be a bit easier to maintain the training and race in the potentially difficult (for me) autumn time.

Of course it might be better to try and build on the momentum and largely positive marathon cycles so far and just try and trim another bit off the 3:04 in the autumn. Once I get back to running properly over the next few weeks I will see how I am. Also a few of my training friends are doing London, so when they are recovered I might see what their plans are and that might be the encouragement I need!!

Thankfully I have had a good run of it in last 12 months that I haven't picked up any injuries, but probably a large part of that is down to really listening to my body. I have also focused alot more on trying to more / better quality sleep too which I am sure has helped my general day to day life from not being as tired from training as much as the actual injury prevention and recovery.

Sounds like you're getting a lot of bang for your buck then with the last marathon cycle.

What's the rush? Seems to me like it may be a better fit for you to work on the other distances over the next 6-9 months ( which you seem to be already planning), build some confidence\strength over 10 mile\half distances and then kick on for you sub 3 attempt in the spring. I'd say your 1.30 HM time is in for a hammering if you can get a good stretch of training under your belt

Krusty_Clown

davedanon wrote: »

I'd be slightly concerned with the implication that there might be something in Krusty's piss that might aid TbL's performance somehow....

I'm afraid that second-hand beetroot and Vitamin C with Iron, is as exciting as it gets. While others may choose to pump themselves full of crap to improve their performance, I'm firmly in the camp that benefits come from training, and anything that you can't get from training, isn't something you deserve.

If you think that you're training as hard and as smart as you can probably train - that you've reached the limits of your own capability - then perhaps you have. It's so much easier to believe that you've reached your limits than it is to actually go out and do the training to achieve something better. What does it take to get from 3:25 down to 2:30? By my calculations, around 27,334 miles.

Gavlor

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What does it take to get from 3:25 down to 2:30? By my calculations, around 27,334 miles.

And for that reason, I'm out!

gucci

Duanington wrote: »

Sounds like you're getting a lot of bang for your buck then with the last marathon cycle.

What's the rush? Seems to me like it may be a better fit for you to work on the other distances over the next 6-9 months ( which you seem to be already planning), build some confidence\strength over 10 mile\half distances and then kick on for you sub 3 attempt in the spring. I'd say your 1.30 HM time is in for a hammering if you can get a good stretch of training under your belt

Probably my over eagerness and have a feeling that if I slacken off now that I will lose the momentum, but thats largely down to the fact that I have too much time on my hands at the moment as I am still in recovery mode!!

In reality the more stable thinking me knows that my mind would rot if I ploughed straight into another marathon cycle, and in reality there is no rush and the shorter stuff will benefit in different areas.

davedanon

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What does it take to get from 3:25 down to 2:30? By my calculations, around 27,334 miles.

On the other hand, I've run 13,049 miles since the start of 2011, and I've only come down from 3:26 to 3:14.

Itziger

davedanon wrote: »

On the other hand, I've run 13,049 miles since the start of 2011, and I've only come down from 3:26 to 3:14.

It's the second 14,000 miles that it begins to kick in.

RayCun

well, since the start of 2011, I took over an hour off my marathon time, and it only took me to mid-2014 and about 5,000 miles. But I guess not everyone has my natural talent.

hot buttered scones

What are we talking here? Miles run between marathons or including training for the first? 2705 miles including my first and last marathon from June 2015 to October 2016. Reduced my time by roughly 28 minutes from 3:49:xx to 3:21:4x. I have a feeling the next 22 minutes is going to take a lot lot longer.

davedanon

RayCun wrote: »

well, since the start of 2011, I took over an hour off my marathon time, and it only took me to mid-2014 and about 5,000 miles. But I guess not everyone has my natural talent.

You obviously set a very low bar initially. I call sandbagging...

RayCun

I was planning ahead for this thread

davedanon

Ok, I chose 2011 because that's when my Garmin data dates from, so in the interests of clarity I should add that since I actually started in 2008, I have brought my time down by a total of 34 minutes, for an outlay in miles ran of approximately 18,000.

So that's what, 1 minute gained for every 500 miles, roughly speaking?

So averaged out, I have gained approximately 4 minutes per year.

RayCun

3:58 for first marathon in 2010 (so that was my PB at the start of 2011)
2:56 for most recent marathon in 2014 (and 2:59 earlier that year in Limerick, so actually only a 59 minute improvement in 2.5 years, a thousand apologies )
1600 miles in 2011, 2600 in 2012, 1800 in 2013 (injury), and I don't know, 2000? in 2014?

adrian522

I went from 3:49 to 3:26 (23 mins) for an outlay of just 3183 Miles. 138 Miles per minute. A few back to back 100 mile weeks and I'll be in WR shape.

hot buttered scones

adrian522 wrote:

I went from 3:49 to 3:26 (23 mins) for an outlay of just 3183 Miles. 138 Miles per minute. A few back to back 100 mile weeks and I'll be in WR shape.

I get the feeling it's a non linear relationship.

adrian522

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I get the feeling it's a non linear relationship.

I was just about to offer my expertise to Nike.

"Have you guys thought about having Kipchogue running an extra 138 miles? should shave about 1 min off his marathon time"

CR 7

RayCun wrote: »

well, since the start of 2011, I took over an hour off my marathon time, and it only took me to mid-2014 and about 5,000 miles. But I guess not everyone has my natural talent.

Yeah, well I took 2 hours off my marathon time in 5 months last year. 5:04 -> 3:03:eek:

The first may or may not have been a mountain (and my first ever) marathon where I gambled on the zero gel/fuel/hydration strategy, and lost badly.

TFBubendorfer

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What does it take to get from 3:25 down to 2:30? By my calculations, around 27,334 miles.

There might be one more ingredient. It took me 8 years and about 25000 miles to get from 4:06 to 2:55. The half-hour difference between us at the start and the end? There might be something intangible called "talent" at play as well.

But, as you've shown very clearly, raw talent is one thing but it is the willingness to train hard and intelligently that will really get you places.

Itziger

Question for the experienced here. I'm currently working towards increasing the MP section of some (most) of my long runs. I'm aiming for Cork, June 4th. So, this last week I did 16k of MP on Wednesday, a stand alone run which consisted in reality of 2k easy + 14k faster than MP. Yesterday I did 11k E + 20k MP + 2.5k c/d.

I'm wondering would I be better off doing slightly speedier stuff midweek. I was thinking either T runs of up to 10k or so, maybe a little more eventually and/or a mixed pace session of HM/M pace stuff. Another possibility would be a pyramid track session of say 1k/2k/3k/2k/1k at 5k/10k/HM paces.

The Long Run would be kept for the M paced session, hopefully getting up to 25k about 3 or 4 weeks out.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

MrMacPhisto

Itziger wrote: »

Question for the experienced here. I'm currently working towards increasing the MP section of some (most) of my long runs. I'm aiming for Cork, June 4th. So, this last week I did 16k of MP on Wednesday, a stand alone run which consisted in reality of 2k easy + 14k faster than MP. Yesterday I did 11k E + 20k MP + 2.5k c/d.

I'm wondering would I be better off doing slightly speedier stuff midweek. I was thinking either T runs of up to 10k or so, maybe a little more eventually and/or a mixed pace session of HM/M pace stuff. Another possibility would be a pyramid track session of say 1k/2k/3k/2k/1k at 5k/10k/HM paces.

The Long Run would be kept for the M paced session, hopefully getting up to 25k about 3 or 4 weeks out.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

Nice work on the MP stuff.

I followed the Hanson plan which prescribes "strength intervals". These were ran at 10 seconds per mile faster than marathon pace, totalling 6 miles (6x1mile, 4x1.5mile, 3x2mile, 2x3mile).

I found these very beneficial, not too hard and enjoyable. It was close enough to marathon pace to be specific for the event. The idea of the pace was give a buffer for faster than planned miles in the actual event.

noelearly

gucci wrote: »

I have an overwhelming feeling of self importance by quoting myself.....anyway, just to update. I have made a significant step mentally and physically towards the Sub 3 goal. With a 3:04:18 in Manchester week before last.

Again my training for this one had been far from ideal, but at the same time I largely trained by feel and when I felt good I trained hard, and when I didn't I took it more gentle! The run largely went to plan, but I know that similar to Dublin, my finishing time was about as much as I could wring out of it on the day. If I had tried to go a bit faster earlier I probably would have been in trouble. My sub 3:05 gives me an good for age entry for London next year so that is possibly the race that I will target the sub 3 for.

I am quite comfortable with giving over another training cycle to "building" on where I am right now, and maybe targeting a smaller race for the balls out attempt at the sub 3! As part of me kind of wants to enjoy London and run it a bit more comfortably but that might all change in 12 months time.

I plan to give the rest of the spring over to getting more trail running and some 10k work to build up some speed and strength and hopefully give it a rattle again.

Any advice anyone has for me will greatly be appreciated, but otherwise, keep up the good work and I will be following the progress here closely!

Is the good for age not only applicable to UK residents or have I read that wrong??

I'm ready to begin my training block for Berlin on the 22nd of mMay going with the 18 week P&D plan that peaks at 70m a week. Done my previous Chicago marathon in 3.09 so I know I need to stay totally committed to breaking 3. First marathon in Cork in 2015 in 3.56 and followed it up in Dublin with a 3.26 couple of months later. Only did Chicago last year so the legs are a bit sluggish at the moment. Fear I have is my base mileage has been pretty useless I've only average 20miles a week since beginning of March.

Great to read people's advise, interesting how lads have run such good Marathons in Dublin after Berlin. If Berlin training goes belly up I might sign up for DCM.

RayCun

noelearly wrote: »

Is the good for age not only applicable to UK residents or have I read that wrong??

It is, although some people interpret "Uk resident" as "can produce a UK address"

noelearly

RayCun wrote: »

It is, although some people interpret "Uk resident" as "can produce a UK address"

I must find out where my dear old cousin Kevin lives or if he is still alive and well god bless him. ðŸ‘

Slogger Jogger

Saw on strava that Barry Minnock ran the Belfast marathon in 2:54 ish, wearing a suit and off limited running training from what I can see Makes the rest of us look slow :cool: Raising money for cancer charity. Well done Bazman.

Itziger

A few pages back we had a mini- "Is there any reason not to do follow up/back-to-back marathons?" This definitely deserves to be added!!

2.42.xx and 2.41.xx 8, EIGHT DAYS later!!!!!!!!

http://www.rte.ie/sport/athletics/2017/0501/871631-laura-graham-adds-belfast-marathon-to-collection/

pgarr

Hi all,

I heard you like running sub 3 marathons I want to run a sub 3 also. I've got about a years experience running - previous results :

Clonakilty Waterfront marathon - December 2016 : 3h :26m

Connemara Ultra - April 2017 : 4h:37m - splits -

13.1 miles - 1:34:42
26.2 miles : 1:30:06
39.3 miles : 1:32:18

That race was last weekend and I'm planning my next target. I want it to be a 2.50 attempt and at a boston qualifier.

I will say that during this training I did a tempo run each Thursday and was maintaining at or quicker than 6:30 for 8 miles at the peak. I felt strong throughout. I have never tested this type of pacing over a longer distance.

I don't have any races done at 10k or half marathon distance. My history aside from the above are charity 5ks here and there.

In training for connemara I had strava estimates of -

10k : 38:17
5k : 18:49

Both were done amidst a tempo run.

My best estimate half was in Connemara last week at 1:29:51.

I am looking at Longford in August as it would allow for a good training block and I can get it done before my mates wedding in September.

I don't have a lot of miles under my belt. I didn't go through a structured plan until Connemara. I have so much to learn and am looking for advise wherever I can get it.

I am looking for opinions on how I should approach this goal. I am not with a club currently and am planning to go down to Galway Harriers this week to join (mainly for the knowledge). I also have got both the Hanson Marathon Method and Advanced Marathoning books. My plan 2 weeks ago was to use 1 of the high mileage plans for my next target.

I've been reviewing this thread and it is full of inspiring stories. A great source of info .

Padraig.