Topgifts.ie gone into liquidation

maxer68

Yesterday Topgifts.ie went into liquidation.
http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/more_details/11-04-27/TopGifts_Corporate_Event_LTD.aspx

Many people will have vouchers for various things such as flight lessons, rally car driving etc.

It seems that the contract for the voucher is with topgifts and not the place named on the voucher - many of these places are owed thousands by topgifts, so they can't accept any more vouchers.

If you have an unused voucher and it was paid for with credit card, you need to start the chargeback process with your credit card company.

xoxyx

I heard about this yesterday - disgusted as I've recently bought a voucher from them as a gift. I used my Visa Debit and have been onto my bank to initiate a chargeback. Does anybody know how long these procedures normally take?

maxer68

xoxyx wrote: »

I heard about this yesterday - disgusted as I've recently bought a voucher from them as a gift. I used my Visa Debit and have been onto my bank to initiate a chargeback. Does anybody know how long these procedures normally take?

you're lucky it was visa debit as laser & mastercard debit cards don't do chargebacks.

You may need to print off the notice in insolvency journal as proof of your claim, after that it can take up to 21 days. But at least you know you'll get the money back.

MissRetro

I found on another forum that naturallyirish.ie are under the same management as TopGifts.ie. I tried ringing NaturallyIrish on 045837783(phone number difficult to find as they have taken it down from there website), got through, asked if I was through to NaturallyIrish, answer "Yes", asked what there plans for reimbursing the TopGifts customers were, "I cannot comment on that", asked if I could be put through to a manager who could comment on that, the girl then feebly tried to say that she didn't work for NaturallyIrish, I then asked why she would be answering phones for a company that she did not work for, she went blank while quick typing noises went on in the backround, I was then put on hold for 10 minutes and eventually hung up on :mad: Rang back again, same conversation, although sounding a little more pre-coached on her part this time. I finally left the conversation before losing my cool head with warnings that I would be taking this further.

maxer68

Unfortunately as Naturally Irish is a seperate company, though related, nothing can be done unless it can be proven that it operated in tandem with Top Gifts - a liquidator will check this out fairly quickly.

smokingman

Not surprised in the slightest.
Back in early December, I tried to organise an activity I was given a voucher for and they initially told me they couldn't get an available date for it until after chrimbo. Rang the activity place up directly and they didn't know what they were on about - plenty of availability.
When I eventually got them to organise it after a lot of back and forth, I was told at the activity by the guys running it that topgifts were late with a lot of payments for the activities for at least a few months.

I wouldn't have put much thought into it but over coffee one morning about two weeks later, it seems that three other work colleagues had the exact same experience with top gifts effectively having no money to pay the activity centres even though they were getting the money from punters for the vouchers.

MissRetro

maxer68 wrote: »

Unfortunately as Naturally Irish is a seperate company, though related, nothing can be done unless it can be proven that it operated in tandem with Top Gifts - a liquidator will check this out fairly quickly.

I am just waiting for the CRO office to re-open(14.30). They should be able to tell me for definite if TopGifts is a stand alone company or a subsidiary, although I am thinking after that odd telephone conversation that it is a subsidiary.

"If the business that has gone into liquidation were a subsidiary of a larger company, it may be possible to claim directly from the parent company"- quoted from consumerconnect.ie.

MissRetro

The CRO office could not give me this information, an advanced company search can be done on the CRO website but you would be charged for this. According to Insolvency Journal a meeting will be held on the 13th of May, after which a liquidator will be appointed so it seems there is nothing left to do until then

The charge back process does seem like the best option, hopefully it works!

Mightycraic

maxer68 wrote: »

Unfortunately as Naturally Irish is a seperate company, though related, nothing can be done unless it can be proven that it operated in tandem with Top Gifts - a liquidator will check this out fairly quickly.

Their company accounts, available at www.cro.ie, will show that they have inter-company balances with Naturally Irish and will confirm the same three directors of both companies, resident in the same offices. These offices belong to the three directors who lease them to TopGifts. I would be more interested to know if the €191k in 2009 and €177k in 2008 they spent in 'Leasehold Improvements', presumably to the office that they personally owned, is above board? They have only just lodged abridged accounts for 2010 showing a capital of around 20k.

maxer68

Mightycraic wrote: »

These offices belong to the three directors who lease them to TopGifts. I would be more interested to know if the €191k in 2009 and €177k in 2008 they spent in 'Leasehold Improvements', presumably to the office that they personally owned, is above board? They have only just lodged abridged accounts for 2010 showing a capital of around 20k.

They did open a shop in whitwater sc in 2008, so I suspect that cost of fitout of that shop is in there somwhere - but it was a very small shop, so I can't see it costing more than 70 - 80k.

Mightycraic

Anyone on here involved in company law? If so, could a class action be filed against the three directors, based on the background of lies that have been told in order to prevent gift vouchers being used?

maxer68

Mightycraic wrote: »

Anyone on here involved in company law? If so, could a class action be filed against the three directors, based on the background of lies that have been told in order to prevent gift vouchers being used?

Class actions are American.

What is needed is to ensure the director's nomination for liquidator doesn't get in. Not that they would do anything untoward, but they can go down an easier route and still comply with all requirements. The nomination with the highest debt amount wins out, therefore anyone who gets a form must sate they oppose the directors nomination.

The liquidator has to file 6 monthly reports to the office of the director of corporate enforement and the ODCE can and will take legal action against directors is they are found to be running the company whilst insolvent or doing anything else wrong. The ODCE can order the winding up of related companies or repayment of monies that should not have been paid out.

On the flip side - business owners are inherently positive and always expect / hope that things will turn around. Topgifts did a lot of advertising last Christmas and possibly too much as the money simply was not in the market for the type of gifts they sell. As posted above, they also had a retail shop with a high rent and they attended many trade shows, which also cost a lot.
In hindsight, they probably should have closed in January if the Christmas sales did not materialise, but my guess is they hoped for a good mother's day / Easter, but this simply did not happen for them or for many other gift companies.

Their business model was wrong too - they should have just acted as an agent for the various experiences and taken a commission rather than issue the vouchers themselves.

bumpydog

maxer68 wrote: »

Class actions are American.

What is needed is to ensure the director's nomination for liquidator doesn't get in. Not that they would do anything untoward, but they can go down an easier route and still comply with all requirements. The nomination with the highest debt amount wins out, therefore anyone who gets a form must sate they oppose the directors nomination.

The liquidator has to file 6 monthly reports to the office of the director of corporate enforement and the ODCE can and will take legal action against directors is they are found to be running the company whilst insolvent or doing anything else wrong. The ODCE can order the winding up of related companies or repayment of monies that should not have been paid out.

On the flip side - business owners are inherently positive and always expect / hope that things will turn around. Topgifts did a lot of advertising last Christmas and possibly too much as the money simply was not in the market for the type of gifts they sell. As posted above, they also had a retail shop with a high rent and they attended many trade shows, which also cost a lot.
In hindsight, they probably should have closed in January if the Christmas sales did not materialise, but my guess is they hoped for a good mother's day / Easter, but this simply did not happen for them or for many other gift companies.

Their business model was wrong too - they should have just acted as an agent for the various experiences and taken a commission rather than issue the vouchers themselves.

Whilst I agree with some of your points, I do not believe for one minute that TopGifts suffered as much as they might suggest with their Christmas sales. We are (were) one of their high-ticket partners and we saw maybe a 5% drop in direct sales over Christmas, which leads me to believe that those who purchased vouchers from them at Christmas have been given the same run-around which is frequently being heard from the holders of said vouchers. We have not received a single enquiry since Christmas and I know that one TG voucher holder (who purchased their voucher last July) has been given countless excuses as to why they cannot partake in the activity, all of which were clearly untrue.

It is my firm belief that the three directors of TopGifts should be held *personally* responsible for their work practice and ethics (or lack of). Watch this space!

Malcolm.

Forest Master

People need to stop buying vouchers during this recession. Every week since late-2008 there's a new topic in here or AH about people with vouchers for a company that has just gone into receivership/liquidation. Have people learned nothing in over 2 years?

maxer68

bumpydog wrote: »

Whilst I agree with some of your points, I do not believe for one minute that TopGifts suffered as much as they might suggest with their Christmas sales. We are (were) one of their high-ticket partners and we saw maybe a 5% drop in direct sales over Christmas, which leads me to believe that those who purchased vouchers from them at Christmas have been given the same run-around which is frequently being heard from the holders of said vouchers. We have not received a single enquiry since Christmas and I know that one TG voucher holder (who purchased their voucher last July) has been given countless excuses as to why they cannot partake in the activity, all of which were clearly untrue.

It is my firm belief that the three directors of TopGifts should be held *personally* responsible for their work practice and ethics (or lack of). Watch this space!

Malcolm.

Just giving possibilities and forewarning on what may be said. - You need to have your figures handy to counteract whatever is said.

Also you and every other creditor need to band together and get your nominated liqudator appointed. If you show enough potential issues with their accounts and the way they ran the business, the revenue (assuming they are owed a fair whack) may switch over to your side or at the very least stay neutral.

If the directors are "owed" rent on the building, you can claim that it is way above market value. Market value rent for their building is currently about €20,000 per year, but would have been at €30,000 - €35,000 per year in the boom. Over this and the directors are being over paid rent.

Dbubba

I purchased a ticket for my father for fathers day last year, and only been able to book the flight recently due to some medical issues he had. As it was almost a year ago do you think I would be able to get a chargeback?

I paid with Bank of Ireland laser!

So annoyed, he was really looking forward to the flight aswell!!!

Donna:mad:

maxer68

Dbubba wrote: »

I purchased a ticket for my father for fathers day last year, and only been able to book the flight recently due to some medical issues he had. As it was almost a year ago do you think I would be able to get a chargeback?

I paid with Bank of Ireland laser!

So annoyed, he was really looking forward to the flight aswell!!!

Donna:mad:

Unfortunately not. Laser does not have chargeback insurance only Visa & Mastercard credit card & Visa debit cards.

Dbubba

Thanks Maxer 68!!

I have learnt my lesson and will not be purchasing vouchers again:(

Mightycraic

Dbubba wrote: »

Thanks Maxer 68!!

I have learnt my lesson and will not be purchasing vouchers again:(

Just don't use either a Mastercard debit card or Laser. Only use a card that offers chargeback insurance when buying ANYTHING mail order.

Mightycraic

Forest Master wrote: »

People need to stop buying vouchers during this recession. Every week since late-2008 there's a new topic in here or AH about people with vouchers for a company that has just gone into receivership/liquidation. Have people learned nothing in over 2 years?

Just curious? What other voucher companies (weekly?) have gone into receivership/liquidation?

Mightycraic

Dbubba wrote: »

Thanks Maxer 68!!

I have learnt my lesson and will not be purchasing vouchers again:(

Maybe legislation is needed whereby vouchers may only be sold by those providing the service. It's not difficult, in this day and age, to find the providers of activities rather than go through an intermediary company such as TopGifts. It's clear that they add no tangible value.

ppink

bumpydog wrote: »

We have not received a single enquiry since Christmas and I know that one TG voucher holder (who purchased their voucher last July) has been given countless excuses as to why they cannot partake in the activity, all of which were clearly untrue.

It is my firm belief that the three directors of TopGifts should be held *personally* responsible for their work practice and ethics (or lack of). Watch this space!

Malcolm.

Same as that! I purchased a voucher from them and after we booked they cancelled on us with very short notice blaming the actual event company saying that rally driving is not done in ice
I called the event company and asked them and was told that was not at all true and they were running!!

Called back topgifts to complain and was told director would call me back.........she never did! so decided then and there no more topgifts!!

bumpydog

ppink wrote: »

Same as that! I purchased a voucher from them and after we booked they cancelled on us with very short notice blaming the actual event company saying that rally driving is not done in ice
I called the event company and asked them and was told that was not at all true and they were running!!

Called back topgifts to complain and was told director would call me back.........she never did! so decided then and there no more topgifts!!

OK, keep an eye on boards.ie and, possibly, the national press. I think that you'll find that this debacle isn't over just yet. I understand that there will be a request put out for all TopGifts voucher holders to complete a questionnaire to be followed by potential action against the 3 directors. Further details will become available following expert legal advice.

Malcolm.

Mightycraic

I think the three of them will look quite fetching in that fancy bright orange number

patrickc

raging,

my fiancee got me a voucher for a driving experience and she had been tryong to book it numerous times, they kept saying no availability but would get back with dates, they hadnt responded to emails and calls, and now we know why. :mad::mad:

just found out she paid by cc so at least thats something.

bumpydog

Hi all, following the surprising collapse of TopGifts earlier this week, I would be grateful of any names/details of their gift voucher partners that you might be aware of. So far we have Irish Balloon Flights (our company), ODD in Cavan, Eirecopters at Weston and Buggyworld in Co. Kildare. Clearly, there are many, many more.

Hope some of you can help fill in the gaps.

Malcolm

ppink

http://www.mondello.ie/

http://bluestarhelicopters.com/

http://www.superdriveni.com/


they also had a birds of prey walk in Offaly i think, not sure of name

mondello did the actual race track but also the Quest events

superdrive in Portadown and Blue Star helicopter flights from Cork airport

ike

We started working with them early last year (Singing Star Experience)

www.singingstarexperience.com

dudara

Threads merged

dudara

Forest Master

Mightycraic wrote: »

Just curious? What other voucher companies (weekly?) have gone into receivership/liquidation?

Eh, I didn't say it was "voucher companies" going out of business - I said companies in general, and that people need to stop buying vouchers during this recession because every week for over 2 years people are getting stung and then complaining.

e.g. - we all know Xtra Vision are on the verge of going out of business (CLARIFICATION - an interrim examiner has been appointed to XtraVision), and HMV are losing money hand over fist - yet if or when it happens, you'll still get people on here moaning about unused vouchers for both places, even though we know NOW that it's a very likely possibility.

Heritage in Killenard
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66677802

Shandon Hotel
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70977587

Lynch Hotels
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71492703

Hughes & Hughes
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64663817

Sasha
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59257375

fashion shop
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71330502

Free Spirit Salon
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64983834

Mint Restaurant
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59950550

Essenuals hair salon
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69900840

Zavvi
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58668989

Ladybird
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65097121

Habitat Ireland
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055292521

Premier Golf
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59918030

Budget Travel
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055750915

Jim Langans, Reids Furniture, Classic Furniture, etc, etc, etc.

Shall I keep going?

maxer68

I'd delete the comment about xtravision - they are in examiners. It's a planned move to legally extricate themselves from certain leases. They continue to trade normally and vouchers continue to be valid.

xoxyx

Just to let anybody know who's going down the chargeback route, I sent a letter off to my bank (having paid by Visa debit), together with a printout from the insolvency journal (http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/more_details/11-04-27/TopGifts_Corporate_Event_LTD.aspx) last week and the money is back in my account today.

Much faster than I had expected!

bumpydog

Could I ask anyone who has an unused TopGifts voucher to send an email to the following email address as a matter of urgency :-

info@topgiftsvouchers.com

The creditors meeting is being held on the 13th May in Dublin and you, as a creditor, should have been advised of the meeting. We will reply to your email regarding your proxy.

Thanks, Malcolm

Note to mods - please leave this in its own thread as it will get lost amongst the noise elsewhere.

dudara

Threads merged

@bumpydog Please do not create new threads, but continue to post in the existing Topgifts thread.

dudara

5500

xoxyx wrote: »

Just to let anybody know who's going down the chargeback route, I sent a letter off to my bank (having paid by Visa debit), together with a printout from the insolvency journal (http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/more_details/11-04-27/TopGifts_Corporate_Event_LTD.aspx) last week and the money is back in my account today.

Much faster than I had expected!

What needs to be written in the letter ect if you dont mind explaining?
Did you include copies of the vouchers ect?

xoxyx

The only thing I enclosed was the printout from the insolvency journal.

I wrote to the Visa Department of my bank (Permanent TSB) giving my account details and stating that I had purchased vouchers from Topgifts on my Visa Debit card on x date for x amount and asked that a chargeback procedure be initiated.

trakeena

I have a voucher that was bought for me by an ex. What should I do? I'd rather he got some sort of refund. My voucher is out of date as they kept fobbing me off with later and later dates. Can someone please advise me what I should do? If the creditors meeting is May 13th what action do I need to take before then?

Solair

Forest Master wrote: »

People need to stop buying vouchers during this recession. Every week since late-2008 there's a new topic in here or AH about people with vouchers for a company that has just gone into receivership/liquidation. Have people learned nothing in over 2 years?

I agree with you there totally. If you want to get someone a voucher, there are perfectly good options in terms of pre-paid debit cards. Some of the better ones can be used online too.

That or just give someone an old-fashioned Gift Cheque / Draft, which are still available from most banks without any fuss at all.

Vouchers are always risky as you're putting money on hold with a company and they can also be subject to terms and conditions that you might not expect and are quite poorly regulated.

Mightycraic

trakeena wrote: »

I have a voucher that was bought for me by an ex. What should I do? I'd rather he got some sort of refund. My voucher is out of date as they kept fobbing me off with later and later dates. Can someone please advise me what I should do? If the creditors meeting is May 13th what action do I need to take before then?

It seems likely that the creditors meeting will not be allowed to take place, as TopGifts have not notified their largest creditors i.e. those holding unused vouchers, of the meeting. I would guess that it will have to be adjourned until they have done so. In the meantime, I would suggest that you seek a chargeback on the purchase by the credit card company *if* it was bought using Visa or Mastercard credit or Visa debit card.

jor el

trakeena wrote: »

I have a voucher that was bought for me by an ex. What should I do? I'd rather he got some sort of refund. My voucher is out of date as they kept fobbing me off with later and later dates. Can someone please advise me what I should do? If the creditors meeting is May 13th what action do I need to take before then?

Realistically, there's not a lot you can do. Your ex may be able to do a charge back, if he paid with a credit card, but charge backs are only allowed within a few months of the original charge. If your voucher expired, I'm guessing this was originally bought quite a while ago.

bumpydog

trakeena wrote: »

I have a voucher that was bought for me by an ex. What should I do? I'd rather he got some sort of refund. My voucher is out of date as they kept fobbing me off with later and later dates. Can someone please advise me what I should do? If the creditors meeting is May 13th what action do I need to take before then?

If you haven't already done so, I would suggest that you send an email with your details to info@topgiftsvouchers.com

Malcolm

Rhalliord

bumpydog wrote: »

Hi all, following the surprising collapse of TopGifts earlier this week, I would be grateful of any names/details of their gift voucher partners that you might be aware of. So far we have Irish Balloon Flights (our company), ODD in Cavan, Eirecopters at Weston and Buggyworld in Co. Kildare. Clearly, there are many, many more.

Hope some of you can help fill in the gaps.

Malcolm

They also had a voucher for the blacksmithing courses in Russborough Hosue in Wicklow. Thats the one I bought from them that I now cant redeem

nolanm

I paid with laser and rang my bank there is nothing they can do. I emailed topgifts and they said they may email me back looking for details! so were do you go from here? is there somewere to give your name and all that? or do we have to wait until the meeting is held next friday?

Gin and Tonic

I rang my bank and they said that I cannot get a refund on my credit card if my voucher is out of date. My voucher is out of date as Top Gifts kept postponing my flying lesson. What can I do now?

Rhalliord

I sent off my letter to my bank, but after I did so I realised that I had paid for my voucher with Paypal but paypal uses my credit card all the same. Is this likely to affect my chances of getting my money back?

carsd

I had a voucher for helicopter lesson that my brother gave me and i didn't use it as i was expecting shortly after he gave it to me, then i completely forgot about it as was just caught up in the joys of motherhood (busy busy) and so the voucher expired in April 2010 which was my own fault and that's fair enough.

However i found the voucher about a month after it expired and rang up topgifts to see if they would still honour it, they said no but that it could be reactivated for a fee of €65 euro which i paid (as i felt guilty too that i had left such an expensive voucher go out of date - originally it was €250 and so now i have a voucher that is worthless and cost overall 315 euro.

I'm just really annoyed that they left me go ahead with the renewal and took more money when they were obviously in trouble.

I booked the flight in February 2011 and was told that the next available date was September 2011 (eventhough the voucher expired on 30th April - i have correspondence from them to say that it would still be fine to use it in September because I booked it before the expiry day !!

I rang the AIB credit card and they said that if i had correspondance from the company confirming the booking after the renewal, then my brother could process a claim to get the money back eventhough it was purchased in 2008. They said that i would not be eligible to get the money back that i paid for the reactivation

maxer68

carsd wrote: »

I booked the flight in February 2011 and was told that the next available date was September 2011 (eventhough the voucher expired on 30th April - i have correspondence from them to say that it would still be fine to use it in September because I booked it before the expiry day !!

I rang the AIB credit card and they said that if i had correspondance from the company confirming the booking after the renewal, then my brother could process a claim to get the money back eventhough it was purchased in 2008. They said that i would not be eligible to get the money back that i paid for the reactivation

At least it looks like you're going to get the €250 back.:D I can see how the €65 won't be refunded as you paid for the voucher to be extended and this part of your contract has been fulfilled.

carsd

yeah hopefully maxer - it was my brother that bought it for me so hopefully he will get the money back

I also got this reply when i e-mailed info@topgiftsvouchers.com

<SNIP>

Bluetonic

carsd wrote: »

the voucher expired in April 2010 which was my own fault and that's fair enough.

However i found the voucher about a month after it expired and rang up topgifts to see if they would still honour it, they said no but that it could be reactivated for a fee of €65 euro which i paid (as i felt guilty too that i had left such an expensive voucher go out of date - originally it was €250 and so now i have a voucher that is worthless and cost overall 315 euro.

I'm just really annoyed that they left me go ahead with the renewal and took more money when they were obviously in trouble.

I booked the flight in February 2011 and was told that the next available date was September 2011 (eventhough the voucher expired on 30th April - i have correspondence from them to say that it would still be fine to use it in September because I booked it before the expiry day !!

You reactivated it in May 2010. 12 months ago.

You should only be annoyed at yourself.

ppink

with this chargeback process....how exactly does this work. The bank pays back the purchaser on their credit card and the bank then goes after topgifts for the money?? and if they dont get it from topgifts what happens then???

ppink

Bluetonic wrote: »

You reactivated it in May 2010. 12 months ago.

You should only be annoyed at yourself.

They rebooked in Feb 2011 9 months after reactivating for presumably another year