Police Shoot and Kill Homeless Man

DavidRamsay99 · 03-03-2015 12:31pm

karma_ wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there, like David here who find it within themselves to defend the indefensible.

The evidence shows that Martin beat Zimmerman's head off the concrete before Zimmerman shot him.
The evidence shows that Brown was charging the officer who shot him dead after had already assaulted him and attempted to grab his gun.
The evidence shows that Garner died of obesity.

The evidence once again shows that this Africa guy was selling drugs, attacked a man, was approached by cops, violently resisted arrest, was tazed, continued to resist, tried to grab an officer's gun and was shot.

Caovyn Lineah · 03-03-2015 12:31pm

karma_ wrote: »

Come off it, it's not justice leaving a man dead on the street which could have easily been prevented. I've watched the video and it was an abject failure on their part that 6 officers could not peaceably or even with the use of tazers subdue one individual.

How would your opinion differ if he had managed to free the officers gun and he had taken one of their lives first?

DavidRamsay99 · 03-03-2015 12:33pm

karma_ wrote: »

Come off it, it's not justice leaving a man dead on the street which could have easily been prevented. I've watched the video and it was an abject failure on their part that 6 officers could not peaceably or even with the use of tazers subdue one individual.

There was no abject failure on behalf of the suspect to stop fighting off the cops, stop resisting arrest and stop trying to grab the officer's gun and presumably kill them?

You seem to be assuming that all confrontations can be solved peacefully and you are holding the police to an impossible standard while refusing to look at the real world evidence that shows this suspect was resisting arrest and tried to take an officer's gun to presumably kill the arresting officers.

dbit · 03-03-2015 12:41pm

karma_ wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there, like David here who find it within themselves to defend the indefensible.

I agree, he's the better call Saul type for sure.

dbit · 03-03-2015 12:45pm

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

There was no abject failure on behalf of the suspect to stop fighting off the cops, stop resisting arrest and stop trying to grab the officer's gun and presumably kill them?

You seem to be assuming that all confrontations can be solved peacefully and you are holding the police to an impossible standard while refusing to look at the real world evidence that shows this suspect was resisting arrest and tried to take an officer's gun to presumably kill the arresting officers.

The word presume is used how many times ? ass of you and me ? mother of all **** ups is the way i hear the word presume being used.

Cops ****ed up, most of the modern world will see it like that. Innocent until proven guilty, naaaaw shur, lets go straight to guilty and execute !!!! American civilians have been stripped of they're basic human rights with cops on a shoot to kill policy and then there is the big hairy scary TERRORISM act . Do me a favour and move to america m8.

DavidRamsay99 · 03-03-2015 12:49pm

dbit wrote: »

The word presume is used how many times ? ass of you and me ? mother of all **** ups is the way i hear the word presume being used.

Cops ****ed up, most of the modern world will see it like that. Innocent until proven guilty, naaaaw shur, lets go straight to guilty and execute !!!! American civilians have been stripped of they're basic human rights with cops on a shoot to kill policy and then there is the big hairy scary TERRORISM act . Do me a favour and move to america m8.

The CCTV and cell phone video show the sequence of events.
He was selling drugs, he attacked a man, he was confronted by the cops, he resisted arrest, they tased him, he reached for an officer's gun and they shot him.

UnitedIrishman · 03-03-2015 12:54pm

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

The evidence shows that Garner died of obesity.

Yeah, he just dropped dead of obesity one day. :rolleyes:

I'm convinced you're on a wind up.

dbit · 03-03-2015 12:54pm

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

The CCTV and cell phone video show the sequence of events.
He was selling drugs, he attacked a man, he was confronted by the cops, he resisted arrest, they tased him, he reached for an officer's gun and they shot him.

tis only €249 to new york !!! off wit ya lad !.

dbit · 03-03-2015 1:10pm

These are the people you hold in such moral high ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
Were you ever in the RA or possibly the RUC DavidRamsay99 ?

suicide_circus · 03-03-2015 1:19pm

dbit wrote: »

These are the people you hold in such moral high ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
Were you ever in the RA or possibly the RUC DavidRamsay99 ?

You'd better get iff the internet their bud, it was invented as a tool for the US military, you're practically condoning war crimes there

darkpagandeath · 03-03-2015 1:35pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Yeah, he just dropped dead of obesity one day. :rolleyes:

Choking someone would result in Asphyxiation. The Highly unfit man died of a heart attack due to struggling with police officers. Bit off a difference.

Anyway

Maybe change the Thread title to

"Violent Drug Dealer Resists arrest and is shot" or is that not sensational enough. Seen as we know what's happened now are we going to fall back on errr.... He was black or something.

Corvo · 03-03-2015 1:52pm

I just used Google Streetview to check out "Skid Row"

It's depressing as hell. What a life.

UnitedIrishman · 03-03-2015 2:01pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Choking someone would result in Asphyxiation. The Highly unfit man died of a heart attack due to struggling with police officers. Bit off a difference.

Anyway

Maybe change the Thread title to

"Violent Drug Dealer Resists arrest and is shot" or is that not sensational enough. Seen as we know what's happened now are we going to fall back on errr.... He was black or something.

Medical examiners concluded that Garner was killed by "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police"... The medical examiner ruled Garner's death a homicide.

Regardless, whether he was 300 odd pounds or not - he doesn't get choked, then he doesn't die.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 2:17pm

true567 wrote: »

A great idea would be to not resist against the cop(s). I have often fired back at cops with words but never physically, there is no reason to- especially not in this case as one can clearly see. Every time there is clear evidence that they resist their orders physically (yes, I mean when a black guy gets shot by a white cop). 2 years ago an American cop grabbed me from behind and literally threw me across a room while my shirt was clenched in his fist- I did nothing to him and after it answered his questions and was released from the situation. Although I had not done anything to begin with but a friend of a friend I was with was causing trouble- they were white and put in jail. However, someone like an Eric Gardner or Trayvon Martin or this guy would have done what I wanted to do in the moment and strike the guy in the face- its ridiculous that these are still stories and that people feel the need to make a thread about it. For the people who are so outraged, I suggest you go the states and work with the inner city kids or stop posting drivel every time this happens as if you were actually at the event. You just come off as trying to be holier than thou when in reality you are posting on a forum your sadness and frustrations (if even authentic) and probably not doing anything even related to helping out those in need with your career/volunteering (if applicable).

I am living in the states currently and I can breathe because I follow the law... They are currently selling shirts that say "I can breathe because I follow the law". Why? Because people are tired of the sensationalists making money of this and all of the fake concern that people like to put on (including posters here).

Well if you like living in a place where cops can just beat or kill you if you break the law even by mistake then don't lecture others about how you live in a free country. You see where I live if a cop is having a bad day and takes it out on me and I tell him to get lost and he beats me, he knows he's going to be in front of a judge.

Where you live if he beats you just for fun even if you're obeying the law, he isn't touched. All he has to say is you were resisting arrest or you went for his gun and it's case closed.

Cops in the US are paid a very good salary. They should be trained to ignore kids on skateboards or any group of "punks" who are doing nothing innocuous. But US cops aren't interested in "protecting and serving". They are interested in showing "who's boss" and if you don't show enough cowering, ass-kissing fear and respect then you take a hiding.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 2:18pm

creolebelle wrote: »

It's gotten better. It was horrible a couple of years ago.

Have they rounded up all the homeless and herded them out to Trenton?

darkpagandeath · 03-03-2015 2:30pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Have they rounded up all the homeless and herded them out to Trenton?

What do they do With them in Moscow ? Ah I forgot there are no poor people in that beacon of utopian delight.

And no Homeless people are not rounded up and shot by the Evil police officers.

true567 · 03-03-2015 2:50pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Well if you like living in a place where cops can just beat or kill you if you break the law even by mistake then don't lecture others about how you live in a free country. You see where I live if a cop is having a bad day and takes it out on me and I tell him to get lost and he beats me, he knows he's going to be in front of a judge.

Where you live if he beats you just for fun even if you're obeying the law, he isn't touched. All he has to say is you were resisting arrest or you went for his gun and it's case closed.

Cops in the US are paid a very good salary. They should be trained to ignore kids on skateboards or any group of "punks" who are doing nothing innocuous. But US cops aren't interested in "protecting and serving". They are interested in showing "who's boss" and if you don't show enough cowering, ass-kissing fear and respect then you take a hiding.

There were no facts stated no arguments made, typical drivel.

But while I have you here I would like to add that it is absolutely hilarious that someone who within the past week stated Russia is not a police state, is condemning the entire U.S. policing force. Honestly, if please answer this question for me so I know what I am dealing with, what is more representative of a police state- the U.S. or Russia?

true567 · 03-03-2015 2:51pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Well if you like living in a place where cops can just beat or kill you if you break the law even by mistake then don't lecture others about how you live in a free country. You see where I live if a cop is having a bad day and takes it out on me and I tell him to get lost and he beats me, he knows he's going to be in front of a judge.

Where you live if he beats you just for fun even if you're obeying the law, he isn't touched. All he has to say is you were resisting arrest or you went for his gun and it's case closed.

Cops in the US are paid a very good salary. They should be trained to ignore kids on skateboards or any group of "punks" who are doing nothing innocuous. But US cops aren't interested in "protecting and serving". They are interested in showing "who's boss" and if you don't show enough cowering, ass-kissing fear and respect then you take a hiding.

There were no facts stated no arguments made, typical drivel.

But while I have you here I would like to add that it is absolutely hilarious that someone who within the past week stated Russia is not a police state, is condemning the entire U.S. policing force. Honestly, please answer this question for me so I know what I am dealing with, what is more representative of a police state- the U.S. or Russia?

RoboRat · 03-03-2015 3:22pm

The US cops need to do some serious unarmed combat classes. If 5 large cops cannot restrain one homeless guy without shooting him to death, they shouldn't be on the force.

Basic Wrestling / BJJ or even just knowing basic joint locks /Pressure points and grappling would be more than enough to be able to get control in those types of situations, but they just seem happy enough to pull the trigger instead.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 3:22pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's only funny because you ignore the main difference. Police have to confront these people, the others don't. They can fall back and ring for, you guessed it, the police.

My girlfriend managed a care centre in the UK. They had many people in their care, some who came for a few hours during the day, like some people with Downs Syndrome who liked to feel important and appreciated by doing some jobs around the place like washing dishes, folding towels and napkins and such, and others who stayed on a more permanent basis. One guy was George who had been there for 30 years. He was a big man with psychological problems. He was very vulnerable but wasn't a danger. The staff knew how he liked his tea and what program he looked forward to watching on TV and things like that. He was also allowed to go to the shops to get newspapers and milk.
One afternoon he went on one of these errands and didn't come back. After an hour or so the staff, understandably concerned sent out a search party. My girlfriend and an assistant went to the police station to report the incident. It turns out George hadn't taken his medication. Nothing hardcore, just a couple of pills to ease tension and heart palpitations that can spur panic attacks. Some police officers had cornered him near the shops and started questioning him. He was flustered and upset. He wasn't acting erratically or insane, just a bit on edge. The police unfortunately exacerbated his distress. They detained him, cuffed him and had a van come and they loaded him into it. At this stage he was beside himself with terror, saying he didn't want to be "taken away". They brought him to the station and put him in a cell.
The superintendant at the station explained that they had this "dangerous" individual in custody. The girls explained that he was a patient (they use the term "service user") at the centre and that they knew him and had built up a relationship with him and that he trusted and respected them.
The superintendant had George, who was sobbing at this stage, brought out. The girls calmed him down and said "Oh, George, what have you gone and done? Are you alright? Do you want to come home?" George replied that he got confused and frightened and indeed he wanted to go "home" to his bed. They called the centre and had the lad with the minivan come to collect George.

When they were leaving the superintendant told the girls that he wished his men had half the skill, training and patience that they demonstrated with that man and even asked if he could contact them for advice in future when dealing with people he didn't understand. Of course they agreed. That was in Cheshire.

"Of all manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most"

--- Thucyclides

jimgoose · 03-03-2015 3:25pm

I am getting a little annoyed by these fools emptying automatic pistols into poor, helpless, distressed people. I think they can do better, and should be expected to. :mad:

Celticfire · 03-03-2015 3:28pm

Egginacup wrote: »

My girlfriend managed a care centre in the UK. They had many people in their care, some who came for a few hours during the day, like some people with Downs Syndrome who liked to feel important and appreciated by doing some jobs around the place like washing dishes, folding towels and napkins and such, and others who stayed on a more permanent basis. One guy was George who had been there for 30 years. He was a big man with psychological problems. He was very vulnerable but wasn't a danger. The staff knew how he liked his tea and what program he looked forward to watching on TV and things like that. He was also allowed to go to the shops to get newspapers and milk.
One afternoon he went on one of these errands and didn't come back. After an hour or so the staff, understandably concerned sent out a search party. My girlfriend and an assistant went to the police station to report the incident. It turns out George hadn't taken his medication. Nothing hardcore, just a couple of pills to ease tension and heart palpitations that can spur panic attacks. Some police officers had cornered him near the shops and started questioning him. He was flustered and upset. He wasn't acting erratically or insane, just a bit on edge. The police unfortunately exacerbated his distress. They detained him, cuffed him and had a van come and they loaded him into it. At this stage he was beside himself with terror, saying he didn't want to be "taken away". They brought him to the station and put him in a cell.
The superintendant at the station explained that they had this "dangerous" individual in custody. The girls explained that he was a patient (they use the term "service user") at the centre and that they knew him and had built up a relationship with him and that he trusted and respected them.
The superintendant had George, who was sobbing at this stage, brought out. The girls calmed him down and said "Oh, George, what have you gone and done? Are you alright? Do you want to come home?" George replied that he got confused and frightened and indeed he wanted to go "home" to his bed. They called the centre and had the lad with the minivan come to collect George.

When they were leaving the superintendant told the girls that he wished his men had half the skill, training and patience that they demonstrated with that man and even asked if he could contact them for advice in future when dealing with people he didn't understand. Of course they agreed. That was in Cheshire.

"Of all manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most"

--- Thucyclides

It's a beautiful story...... it would bring a tear to a glass eye.

RoboRat · 03-03-2015 3:34pm

Celticfire wrote: »

It's a beautiful story...... it would bring a tear to a glass eye.

Don't know why you're being sarcastic, this shows that in a lot of cases that just stepping back, and amping a situation down can lead to no situation at all.

I seen it day in an day out with drunken people when I used to do the door, some of the bouncers were itching for a fight when all the situation needed was a bit of dialogue to be resolved.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 3:36pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

one other thing about this debate about how americans treat their war heroes with many of them being recruited into police forces and fire departments and being retrained as paramedics, this guy was quite likely a veteran of one or more of americas skirmishes around the world yet was Fúckéd on top of the skid row pile with so many other true american heroes who actually fought and paid a heavy price for their beloved country! The armless the legless the blind and the insane, while the cops are just spineless .....

Considering 40% of homeless males are veterans then I think it's a very good possibility that he was a veteran.

Little CuChulainn · 03-03-2015 3:38pm

Egginacup wrote: »

My girlfriend managed a care centre in the UK. They had many people in their care, some who came for a few hours during the day, like some people with Downs Syndrome who liked to feel important and appreciated by doing some jobs around the place like washing dishes, folding towels and napkins and such, and others who stayed on a more permanent basis. One guy was George who had been there for 30 years. He was a big man with psychological problems. He was very vulnerable but wasn't a danger. The staff knew how he liked his tea and what program he looked forward to watching on TV and things like that. He was also allowed to go to the shops to get newspapers and milk.
One afternoon he went on one of these errands and didn't come back. After an hour or so the staff, understandably concerned sent out a search party. My girlfriend and an assistant went to the police station to report the incident. It turns out George hadn't taken his medication. Nothing hardcore, just a couple of pills to ease tension and heart palpitations that can spur panic attacks. Some police officers had cornered him near the shops and started questioning him. He was flustered and upset. He wasn't acting erratically or insane, just a bit on edge. The police unfortunately exacerbated his distress. They detained him, cuffed him and had a van come and they loaded him into it. At this stage he was beside himself with terror, saying he didn't want to be "taken away". They brought him to the station and put him in a cell.
The superintendant at the station explained that they had this "dangerous" individual in custody. The girls explained that he was a patient (they use the term "service user") at the centre and that they knew him and had built up a relationship with him and that he trusted and respected them.
The superintendant had George, who was sobbing at this stage, brought out. The girls calmed him down and said "Oh, George, what have you gone and done? Are you alright? Do you want to come home?" George replied that he got confused and frightened and indeed he wanted to go "home" to his bed. They called the centre and had the lad with the minivan come to collect George.

When they were leaving the superintendant told the girls that he wished his men had half the skill, training and patience that they demonstrated with that man and even asked if he could contact them for advice in future when dealing with people he didn't understand. Of course they agreed. That was in Cheshire.

"Of all manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most"

--- Thucyclides

What exactly is your point? That trained mental health workers with knowledge of a patient and a pre existing relationship with him are better suited to dealing with him than police?

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 3:46pm

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Brown beat the officer and tried to take his gun.
The officer would not be doing his job if he did not try to arrest him after he was attacked.
Brown charged him and the officer opened fire.
Justified.
The evidence backed up the officer's story.
Witnesses who claimed that Brown had his hands in the air when he was shot have been totally discredited.
End of.

End of? END OF? Excuse me but you don't get to decide that, OK?
Now I know the kind of person with whom I'm dealing. Don't waste my time anymore.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 3:48pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So not only was it not brushed under the carpet as you claimed but the officers were actually prosecuted twice and two of them received jail sentences.

I never said it was brushed under the carpet. I knew that they were tried.

BlaasForRafa · 03-03-2015 3:49pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What do they do With them in Moscow ? Ah I forgot there are no poor people in that beacon of utopian delight.

And no Homeless people are not rounded up and shot by the Evil police officers.

It's only reporters and opposition politicians that get killed in soviet russia.

suicide_circus · 03-03-2015 3:50pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

What exactly is your point? That trained mental health workers with knowledge of a patient and a pre existing relationship with him are better suited to dealing with him than police?

He's got you there

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 3:54pm

karma_ wrote: »

Come off it, it's not justice leaving a man dead on the street which could have easily been prevented. I've watched the video and it was an abject failure on their part that 6 officers could not peaceably or even with the use of tazers subdue one individual.

Karma, you're dealing with sadists here. David and Caovyn and Lil Cuchulain and DPD if given a choice whereby a situation could be concluded peaceably or with the death of a suspect they would opt for the slaying, even if it was just as easy to end it with no shots fired.

Celticfire · 03-03-2015 3:57pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Karma, you're dealing with sadists here. David and Caovyn and Lil Cuchulain and DPD if given a choice whereby a situation could be concluded peaceably or with the death of a suspect they would opt for the slaying, even if it was just as easy to end it with no shots fired.

This should be post of the day. Hilarious :pac:

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 4:04pm

true567 wrote: »

There were no facts stated no arguments made, typical drivel.

But while I have you here I would like to add that it is absolutely hilarious that someone who within the past week stated Russia is not a police state, is condemning the entire U.S. policing force. Honestly, if please answer this question for me so I know what I am dealing with, what is more representative of a police state- the U.S. or Russia?

We're not talking about "anywhere" here. My opinions about Russia or Mongolia or Cape Verde are irrelevant to this discussion.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 4:13pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

What exactly is your point? That trained mental health workers with knowledge of a patient and a pre existing relationship with him are better suited to dealing with him than police?

Are you allergic to thinking rationally? I get the impression that there are a lot of people on here, yourself included, who would be very disappointed at the outcome of the case I just described. I get the impression you'd feel cheated if the poor misfortunate guy wasn't actually terrorised, beaten and shot so you could rub your hands together with glee and gloat "See, don't resist if you don't want to get shot!"

I feel a bit sorry for you.

Little CuChulainn · 03-03-2015 4:26pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Karma, you're dealing with sadists here. David and Caovyn and Lil Cuchulain and DPD if given a choice whereby a situation could be concluded peaceably or with the death of a suspect they would opt for the slaying, even if it was just as easy to end it with no shots fired.

And of course you can quote the posts where this opinion is stated, or even implied.

Egginacup wrote: »

Are you allergic to thinking rationally? I get the impression that there are a lot of people on here, yourself included, who would be very disappointed at the outcome of the case I just described. I get the impression you'd feel cheated if the poor misfortunate guy wasn't actually terrorised, beaten and shot so you could rub your hands together with glee and gloat "See, don't resist if you don't want to get shot!"

I feel a bit sorry for you.

Don't feel sorry because you have fabricated a moral position for me that suits you to argue against. I'm open to correction but I'm almost certain every single post you've made in this thread has consisted of fabrications of your own making.

Nucular Arms · 03-03-2015 4:31pm

true567 wrote: »

There were no facts stated no arguments made, typical drivel.

But while I have you here I would like to add that it is absolutely hilarious that someone who within the past week stated Russia is not a police state, is condemning the entire U.S. policing force. Honestly, please answer this question for me so I know what I am dealing with, what is more representative of a police state- the U.S. or Russia?

Very little difference between the two in my opinion.

Both corrupt oligarchies.

Both foreign military aggressors in illegal wars.

Both employ brutal tactics in subjugating the 'undesirable' elements of their populations.

Both promote cultural propaganda preaching that their respective nations are the greatest.

Both employ spying and monitoring practices on a mass scale over their populations.

(also FYI on your earlier post re: the chicago black site, just google homan square, should get about 800,000 citations)

JCX BXC · 03-03-2015 4:32pm

Guarantee if it was a black cop who had killed a homeless person there would be no outburst.

I have no doubt in my mind that there was nothing racially involved in this shooting. It may have been a little discrimination towards homeless people, but I have little sympathy. The problem with alot of the protesting blacks in America is that they are arrested more than white people and rightly so. Its not the colour of skin thats behind the arrests its the persons crime record. I guarantee you that there would be simular arrest rates if the harlem was a mostly white community.

People really like to make things out of nothing.

Edit: I am also commending the name of the thread, as it doesn't specify skin colours which was probably not the reason for the shootings.

NachoBusiness · 03-03-2015 4:36pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Guarantee if it was a black cop who had killed a homeless person there would be no outburst.

It was a black cop that killed a homeless person.

JCX BXC · 03-03-2015 4:38pm

I thought it was a white cop. I apologise if i got my info wrong.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 4:41pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

What exactly is your point? That trained mental health workers with knowledge of a patient and a pre existing relationship with him are better suited to dealing with him than police?

My point is that if cops were given just a fraction of the training that care workers were given they would very easily be able to recognise someone with autism or someone who is frightened, prone to panic, things like that. Instead of just piling onto to someone and beating the shit out them when they start screaming for their mothers. Anyone can recognise someone with Downs Syndrome. A 6 year-old can look at someone with Downs and know straight away that they are "different" or "special needs". Cops in the US know this too. It's impossible NOT to know it. You can tell by their features. Yet they callously brutalize people with Downs as well:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/man-syndrome-beaten-police-walking-street/

This ultra-asshole even said when asked if he knew his victim was Downs Syndrome that "I'm not a doctor. I didn't know" (!)

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/05/01/cop-beats-young-man-syndrome-packinga-colostomy-bag/

And that is the level of prick we are dealing with. You don't need to be a doctor to know that someone is Down's, but this loathsome scum just throws out a comment like that.

No amount of training would make this wanker into a better cop. When he batters a weakling that he knows full well is Down's Syndrome then there's no place for him in any position of power, even managing a burger joint.

But other cops can be trained to recognise that calming people down, not scaring the life out of them or beating them will generally defuse a situation.

Making up hypothetical reasons and excuses for taking the easy option of doling out brute force and ignorace is the realm of the lazy-minded non-thinkers.

Little CuChulainn · 03-03-2015 4:52pm

Egginacup wrote: »

My point is that if cops were given just a fraction of the training that care workers were given they would very easily be able to recognise someone with autism or someone who is frightened, prone to panic, things like that. Instead of just piling onto to someone and beating the shit out them when they start screaming for their mothers. Anyone can recognise someone with Downs Syndrome. A 6 year-old can look at someone with Downs and know straight away that they are "different" or "special needs". Cops in the US know this too. It's impossible NOT to know it. You can tell by their features. Yet they callously brutalize people with Downs as well:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/man-syndrome-beaten-police-walking-street/

This ultra-asshole even said when asked if he knew his victim was Downs Syndrome that "I'm not a doctor. I didn't know" (!)

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/05/01/cop-beats-young-man-syndrome-packinga-colostomy-bag/

And that is the level of prick we are dealing with. You don't need to be a doctor to know that someone is Down's, but this loathsome scum just throws out a comment like that.

No amount of training would make this wanker into a better cop. When he batters a weakling that he knows full well is Down's Syndrome then there's no place for him in any position of power, even managing a burger joint.

But other cops can be trained to recognise that calming people down, not scaring the life out of them or beating them will generally defuse a situation.

Making up hypothetical reasons and excuses for taking the easy option of doling out brute force and ignorace is the realm of the lazy-minded non-thinkers.

You are making the assumption that everyone can be calmed. This is not always the case. Sometimes they do not have a legitimate reason and they do not want to go easy. Sometimes lethal force is needed. This doesn't mean it is always needed, which for some reason you keep insisting I am saying, it means it cannot always be avoided.

true567 · 03-03-2015 5:29pm

Nucular Arms wrote: »

Very little difference between the two in my opinion.

Both corrupt oligarchies.

Both foreign military aggressors in illegal wars.

Both employ brutal tactics in subjugating the 'undesirable' elements of their populations.

Both promote cultural propaganda preaching that their respective nations are the greatest.

Both employ spying and monitoring practices on a mass scale over their populations.

(also FYI on your earlier post re: the chicago black site, just google homan square, should get about 800,000 citations)

Not a single remark you just made has anything to do with local police forces... You reference the military, politicians, propaganda, NSA programs, etc. But this has nothing to do with this case or the Michael Brown case for the matter.

Although I partially agree with you sentiment regarding the U.S. but to a lesser extent but yes I think the country is going under and their politicians and actions are often compromised by unconstitutional beliefs to favor a very few. However, none of these sentiments relate to bad local police forces. My point is that the argument that " an unarmed man shot by cops" is indicative of a U.S. police state is retarded. Watch the video and tell me that guy was not asking for it- I am sure he was mentally unstable but at the end of the day he either tried to or did grab the gun and therefore he was essentially committing suicide. Same for Michael Brown, or any case where they claim the person was unarmed, because if the cop waits another second then it may be the cop that is unarmed and you have to assume someone crazy/dumb enough to go for a pistol plans on using it.

We probably do not differ in many views; I just strongly believe that the title of this thread is very misleading because the homeless man was about to be armed if he got the gun and also it involves no context whatsoever. Essentially, the U.S. is not a police state, nor are cops actively hunting down individuals. People don't let facts get in the way though and instead have their minds made up, most likely without even watching the video. It is the exact same thread as the Michael Brown thread.

true567 · 03-03-2015 5:32pm

Egginacup wrote: »

We're not talking about "anywhere" here. My opinions about Russia or Mongolia or Cape Verde are irrelevant to this discussion.

They are completely relevant. Your definition of a police state should not change based on the country of discussion. You argued that Russia is not a police state, but is the U.S.? That is my question for you.

If it makes it easier for you, then disregard the Russian part and simply answer: Is the U.S. a police state?

the_monkey · 03-03-2015 5:38pm

Egginacup wrote: »

That's standard operating procedure now for cops in America. When then slam your face onto the concrete and kneel on your head they repeatedly yell "Stop resisting! Stop reaching for my gun! Stop resisting! Stop reaching for my gun!" You might actually be unconscious and incapable of doing anything but they still yell this for all to hear so that if they kill you then that will be their story....that you were resisting and/or "reaching" for the cop's gun.

Here's another bunch of heroes tazing a pensioner:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/watch-florida-police-tase-elderly-man-hands/

Disgracefull all right, I remember another incident where they shot some guy who was reaching for his licence after they ASKED for it !!

Then he was apoligizing !! and he was the one who got shot !!

Caovyn Lineah · 03-03-2015 7:14pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Karma, you're dealing with sadists here. David and Caovyn and Lil Cuchulain and DPD if given a choice whereby a situation could be concluded peaceably or with the death of a suspect they would opt for the slaying, even if it was just as easy to end it with no shots fired.

Excuse me?

I justified the killing in one way, he was trying to take or already had a gun. What would you have done in the officers situation? Hoped he had a bad aim? Asked him nicely not to shoot at you or a work colleague?

No, what they did was completely justified in my opinion. It was him or one of them.

Caovyn Lineah · 03-03-2015 7:17pm

Egginacup

I'll keep this short. Have you any clue on what these officers are trained in? Are you aware that they were on this beat specifically because of their experience in dealing with people like this man, people with mental health problems.

Nucular Arms · 03-03-2015 7:51pm

true567 wrote: »

Not a single remark you just made has anything to do with local police forces... You reference the military, politicians, propaganda, NSA programs, etc. But this has nothing to do with this case or the Michael Brown case for the matter.

Although I partially agree with you sentiment regarding the U.S. but to a lesser extent but yes I think the country is going under and their politicians and actions are often compromised by unconstitutional beliefs to favor a very few. However, none of these sentiments relate to bad local police forces. My point is that the argument that " an unarmed man shot by cops" is indicative of a U.S. police state is retarded. Watch the video and tell me that guy was not asking for it- I am sure he was mentally unstable but at the end of the day he either tried to or did grab the gun and therefore he was essentially committing suicide. Same for Michael Brown, or any case where they claim the person was unarmed, because if the cop waits another second then it may be the cop that is unarmed and you have to assume someone crazy/dumb enough to go for a pistol plans on using it.

We probably do not differ in many views; I just strongly believe that the title of this thread is very misleading because the homeless man was about to be armed if he got the gun and also it involves no context whatsoever. Essentially, the U.S. is not a police state, nor are cops actively hunting down individuals. People don't let facts get in the way though and instead have their minds made up, most likely without even watching the video. It is the exact same thread as the Michael Brown thread.

True enough, it is a bit of a tangential post I suppose.

I guess I just see this case as symptomatic of a broader malaise. I call the US a police state because it is the term I beleive most closely resembles the attitude to the application of law and order in america, though I concede that it doesn't strictly speaking adhere 100% to the label.

Amazingfun · 04-03-2015 5:29pm

More information is coming out about the homeless man shot and killed by police in Los Angeles on Sunday, including that he was a convicted bank robber who took over a French man's identity 15 years ago in order to gain entrance to the United States.

"He fooled a lot of people, including us, years ago," French consul general Axel Cruau told the Los Angeles Times. He said that the man, identified by the LAPD as Charley Saturmin Robinet, stole the identity of the real Robinet in the late-1990s. The man calling himself Robinet was convicted of a bank robbery in 2000, and Cruau said that French officials let the United States know that Robinet had assumed someone else's identity and was not a French citizen. The actual Charley Saturmin Robinet is still alive and living in France. Catherine Garcia

http://theweek.com/speedreads/542357/homeless-man-shot-by-lapd-officers-came-using-stolen-identity

RWCNT · 05-03-2015 10:38am

Amazingfun wrote: »

http://theweek.com/speedreads/542357/homeless-man-shot-by-lapd-officers-came-using-stolen-identity

My inner conspiracy theorist is always mistrustful of this sort of stuff. EVERY time this happens we have all this information come out as if its supposed to make us feel better that someone was publicly executed.

My tin foil hat aside, I don't care if the guy has past convictions for murder, the cops still did a ****ty job and messed up in the worst way possible.

darkpagandeath · 05-03-2015 2:11pm

RWCNT wrote: »

My inner conspiracy theorist is always mistrustful of this sort of stuff. EVERY time this happens we have all this information come out as if its supposed to make us feel better that someone was publicly executed.

My tin foil hat aside, I don't care if the guy has past convictions for murder, the cops still did a ****ty job and messed up in the worst way possible.

Nah, Lets put you in that same situation. Your mate shouts he's got my gun. What's your next move. And remember Police officers are only trained to kill when using a weapon. No police force in the world Is trained to wound.

RWCNT · 05-03-2015 2:49pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Nah, Lets put you in that same situation. Your mate shouts he's got my gun. What's your next move. And remember Police officers are only trained to kill when using a weapon. No police force in the world Is trained to wound.

I might end up shooting him to be honest. How did he wind up getting my mate's gun anyway since we outnumbered him? I'd say me and my friends probably made a total pig's ear of that one.

Police Shoot and Kill Homeless Man

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