Police Shoot and Kill Homeless Man

Streetwalker

Egginacup wrote: »

People keep banging on about cops risking their lives every minute of every day. It's bullsh1t. There are higher on-the-job death rates for farm workers, trawlermen, construction workers, than there are for cops. People seem to think everyday for these guys is worse than a Christian going into the damn Coliseum.
These cops are completely detached from reality and that's how they're trained...to view everyone as their enemy and act with brute force at the slightest provocation or resistance to subjugation.

I'd argue they don't treat everyone as their enemy only those who are from poorer backgrounds. Then again im speaking from personal experience going back 10-15 years ago maybe things have changed. A side point is these guys seem to be all on steroids and hitting the gym hard every other day as they are huge. Maybe that's another reason why they are so full of anger and aggression when situations call for a calm head at times?

Egginacup

Just a little Samba wrote: »

The real reason is it's easier to hit a torso than it is to hit a leg or a shoulder, and even if you hit a shoulder, you're probably going to puncture a lung and kill the person you hit.

But either way, why the feck carry a gun when apprehending an unarmed man for the love of christ?
Take his legs out from under him with a stick and pin him down, if 4 or 5 unarmed men can't do that without ballsing it up they need to be tested for mental competency and given some training on how to do their jobs,

Agreed. 2 or 3 nightclub bouncers seem to be able to restrain a troublemaker until the (unarmed) Gardai arrived and take him away. I've seen just 2 bouncers in Dublin pin down a fairly large punter who was screaming abuse at them and all the while the guy's hysterical girlfriend is also screaming abuse at them.

These 5 or 6 idiots can't restrain a homeless man so just shoot him to death.

kylith

Egginacup wrote: »

People keep banging on about cops risking their lives every minute of every day. It's bullsh1t. There are higher on-the-job death rates for farm workers, trawlermen, construction workers, than there are for cops. People seem to think everyday for these guys is worse than a Christian going into the damn Coliseum.
These cops are completely detached from reality and that's how they're trained...to view everyone as their enemy and act with brute force at the slightest provocation or resistance to subjugation.

I have seen photos and footage of US police force training and it does look shockingly close to army training. IMO this is entirely the wrong tack to take; a police service shouldn't be trained to view the public as an enemy, but should be trained to work with the public. A course in negotiation and discource or something similar would be helpful to police.

When you train your police like soldiers you have to expect them to treat the public like the enemy.

Egginacup

Dr. Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Is it just the American police you have a problem with, or is it police forces in general?

My encounters with Dutch, German and British police have always been pleasant. Even on the one occasion that a cop overstepped his boundaries and I got into an argument with him, he backed off because he knew he had overreacted and his partner had a word with him.

American cops just beat or kill you on a whim.

threeball

kylith wrote: »

I have seen photos and footage of US police force training and it does look shockingly close to army training. IMO this is entirely the wrong tack to take; a police service shouldn't be trained to view the public as an enemy, but should be trained to work with the public. A course in negotiation and discource or something similar would be helpful to police.

When you train your police like soldiers you have to expect them to treat the public like the enemy.

Everything in the states revolves around the military, even their sporting events are military promotional tools and its constantly hammered in to them how un-American it is not to support the actions of their military regardless of the circumstance. The cops are just a less tooled up version of your average army grunt.

Celticfire

threeball wrote: »

Next time your shooting try the manoeuvre I just described and see how you get on. not very well i'd bet. Also given that its LAPD they're probably carrying Glock 22 or Glock 17's which have a safety feature which require both the trigger safety and the trigger to be depressed simultaneously. A mere formality while being kneeled on with your hands cuffed behind you back.

Just a little Samba wrote: »

The gun, a glock, also has a safe action trigger so it's not as simply as one finger on the trigger setting the gun off, you need a full grip and a considerable effort to fire the gun.

What evidence do you have that the gun was a Glock? According to LAPD website there are many different guns carried by officers.

dbit

Dancor wrote: »

At 20 seconds it sounds like ''He's got my gun''

And with 3 tazers going into this poor chap , he most likely had other things in his hands for brief moments as he jolted about the floor . Come the fook on US cops have a lot to answer for .

kylith

threeball wrote: »

Everything in the states revolves around the military, even their sporting events are military promotional tools and its constantly hammered in to them how un-American it is not to support the actions of their military regardless of the circumstance. The cops are just a less tooled up version of your average army grunt.

Not even that less tooled up. Where do you think army surplus hardware goes?

Just a little Samba

Celticfire wrote: »

What evidence do you have that the gun was a Glock? According to LAPD website there are many different guns carried by officers.

The Glock 17 and 22 are the most commonly used guns by police in the US, and if it was somehting else like a Smith and Wesson or a Beretta, they all have actual safetys, which makes them even less likely to discharge.

dbit

They are armed by the state , they should be trained to use they're weapons properly regardless of safety on, off, or not avail. Its not like this is the first tme we have seen this sh1t. Long live schwartz wasser !.

threeball

Celticfire wrote: »

What evidence do you have that the gun was a Glock? According to LAPD website there are many different guns carried by officers.

LAPD standard issue from the academy is the Glock 22, used to be the 17

Smidge

I don't know how that can be seen by anyone as anything other than murder. He stood over him and blasted him to death.
Trained? To kill, apparently.
There were more than enough officers there to have controlled that situation better and it should never have gotten to that point.
Tragic.

Rory28

Are there any Gardai here that would have insight on what to do wen restraining a hulk mode homeless person?

It would be hypocritical of me to say I'm outraged. I walk past homeless people everyday but register not even one face and if they were being tackled by police I wouldn't care to much either. I'm not proud of that but I doubt I'm alone.

darkpagandeath

Egginacup wrote: »

People keep banging on about cops risking their lives every minute of every day. It's bullsh1t. There are higher on-the-job death rates for farm workers, trawlermen, construction workers, than there are for cops. People seem to think everyday for these guys is worse than a Christian going into the damn Coliseum.
These cops are completely detached from reality and that's how they're trained...to view everyone as their enemy and act with brute force at the slightest provocation or resistance to subjugation.

Meanwhile in Russia, This would probably be justified I'm guessing. Do RT actually report any actions of the police over there ?

Celticfire

threeball wrote: »

LAPD standard issue from the academy is the Glock 22, used to be the 17

New officers graduating from the LAPD academy are now issued the Glock 22 or Glock 17 but can qualify in a variety of firearms. Officers now have the choice of carrying:

Beretta:
9mm: S92F, 92FS, 8045 (4" barrel)

Smith & Wesson:
9mm: 5906, 3914, 3913, CS9, 6904, 6906, 5906
.45 ACP: 4506, 4566, 4516, 4567

Glock:
9mm: Model 17, Model 19, Model 26
.40 caliber: Model 22, Model 23, Model 27
.45 ACP: Model 21, Model 30, Model 36

Plenty of other gun allowed.

if it was somehting else like a Smith and Wesson or a Beretta, they all have actual safetys, which makes them even less likely to discharge.

You'd be willing to bet your life if you were in that situation that the safety was on???? It's a simple safety lever/button that can be moved with ease ....

threeball

Celticfire wrote: »

Plenty of other gun allowed.



You'd be willing to bet your life if you were in that situation that the safety was on???? It's a simple safety lever/button that can be moved with ease ....

Hence the word probably in my initial post. I wouldn't be stupid enough to let someone get hold of my gun in a situation like that, it shows incredible incompetence/stupidity that he allowed that to happen.

darkpagandeath

threeball wrote: »

Hence the word probably in my initial post. I wouldn't be stupid enough to let someone get hold of my gun in a situation like that, its show incredible incompetence/stupidity that he allowed that to happen.

Why do Police officers get issued 3 times the length arms to cuff someone at a distance now ?

Celticfire

threeball wrote: »

Hence the word probably in my initial post. I wouldn't be stupid enough to let someone get hold of my gun in a situation like that, it shows incredible incompetence/stupidity that he allowed that to happen.

Of course you wouldn't :rolleyes:. But seeing as you're most likely not a Police Officer you'll never get to put your theory to the test.

steddyeddy

I know that the educational requirements for entering the police force are low. Is it also a requirement that police be absolute pussies who are afraid of their own shadow? The shoot first ask questions later attitude oft displayed there does more harm to society than good.

threeball

Celticfire wrote: »

Of course you wouldn't :rolleyes:. But seeing as you're most likely not a Police Officer you'll never get to put your theory to the test.

Only a simpleton would place his gun within reach of a person they had subdued and arrested especially in a situation where he had this many colleagues as backup.

threeball

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why do Police officers get issued 3 times the length arms to cuff someone at a distance now ?

There were about 10 of them FFS, plus he was already in cuffs. To have your gun taken off you after that person is in cuffs....??? Lets just say that mensa membership is unlikely for this particular officer.

Celticfire

threeball wrote: »

Only a simpleton would place his gun within reach of a person they had subdued and arrested especially in a situation where he had this many colleagues as backup.

I didn't see anyone "subdued" in that clip. You do know what that word means? I saw a man kicking and fighting doing the exact opposite of subdued.

I'm intrigued as to how an armed cop is supposed to arrest and handcuff a resisting suspect without getting in reach ?

Egginacup

Just a little Samba wrote: »

I wouldn't trust the morons in the US police forces to hit a donkeys arse with a banjo, there was no need for him to have a gun on him, and if it was on him it should have been securely clipped in his holster which covers the trigger.
The gun, a glock, also has a safe action trigger so it's not as simply as one finger on the trigger setting the gun off, you need a full grip and a considerable effort to fire the gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6fO4GbbMHI

:pac:

threeball

Celticfire wrote: »

I didn't see anyone "subdued" in that clip. You do know what that word means? I saw a man kicking and fighting doing the exact opposite of subdued.

I'm intrigued as to how an armed cop is supposed to arrest and handcuff a resisting suspect without getting in reach ?

Kicking and screaming while lying on your front is no danger to anyone unless you're a hot head cop who will keep aggressively trying to force a person to stop moving. Cops in these situations inflame the situation and if you can't figure out how to keep a gun out of a guys hands when hes handcuffed and surrounded by your colleagues I suggest you don't bother applying to LAPD, NYPD or any other PD anytime soon.

steddyeddy

Celticfire wrote: »

I didn't see anyone "subdued" in that clip. You do know what that word means? I saw a man kicking and fighting doing the exact opposite of subdued.

I'm intrigued as to how an armed cop is supposed to arrest and handcuff a resisting suspect without getting in reach ?

In that situation would you have shot him. Yes or no?

dbit

Celticfire wrote: »

I didn't see anyone "subdued" in that clip. You do know what that word means? I saw a man kicking and fighting doing the exact opposite of subdued.

I'm intrigued as to how an armed cop is supposed to arrest and handcuff a resisting suspect without getting in reach ?

Subdued ?? on your back , cuffed , tazzerd 3 times and 5 burely cops standing over you , I am sure you can reach for the use of the language ? can you not ?


Wonder how he would act if he was standing , white, armed , and killing cops ?

HiGlo

caustic 1 wrote: »

It is very easy to sit and judge here where we can rewind and review a situation that has been videoed, however being involved I'm sure in such a volatile confrontation must be dam scary and I am sure you are on heightened guard at all times so that when things do get out of control you react in a heartbeat. Was it excessive? Perhaps. If you were in fear of your life or that of a friend then perhaps not.

I understand your point, but I think you are possibly comparing it to you or I in this situation. These are supposed to be highly trained professionals with years of making judgment calls on things. High pressure, volatile situations are a daily occurrence I am sure. Granted, that doesn't mean they aren't scared of them.
The difference is that I would expect that police encounter training in how to deal with these situations and diffuse them.

I don't know what happened in this situation and judging by the few mins of the video I watched I would guess the victim perhaps has mental health issues and/or addiction problem (an assumption based on the wild flailing). There has to be better ways of dealing with these situations that don't involve a person ending up dead, be it the police officer or the homeless man....

pollyannawins

Rory28 wrote: »

Are there any Gardai here that would have insight on what to do wen restraining a hulk mode homeless person?

It would be hypocritical of me to say I'm outraged. I walk past homeless people everyday but register not even one face and if they were being tackled by police I wouldn't care to much either. I'm not proud of that but I doubt I'm alone.

good point, gardai tackle homeless people everyday without shot five times death being the result. reason to admire our own boys in blue.

for those interested here is an except from an article in 'police' magazine on how the l.a.p.d. changed since Rodney king


Here are five:
•Shortly after the riot, Chief Willie Williams was sworn in as the first outside police chief in 45 years. The voters created a new system where the chief could serve only a five-year term, renewable once at the city's option. On two occasions so far, the city has sent the chief packing after five years.
•"Community policing" has taken hold in ways not seen in the past. The LAPD diversified to the point where Caucasian officers have been in the minority for many years. The city is on the verge of becoming majority Latino, and so is the department.
•The role of the civilian police commission (which had been the "boss" of the chief of police for many decades) was intensified, and an independent inspector general position was created.
•Use of force, whether minor or major, receives intense investigative scrutiny and command review. The TASER, pepper spray, and beanbag shotguns are used in greater numbers of incidents. (A less-powerful TASER was used twice in the King incident with limited success.) Baton use is minimal.
•More than 2,000 additional officers were hired in an effort to achieve a (not yet realized) goal of 10,000.

Little CuChulainn

Why do people keep saying he was cuffed when he was shot? The cuffs are put on him at 1.50 in the video.

OldNotWIse

cruais wrote: »

Mass protests will happen once more.

And rightly so

Why did they have to shoot him so many times? F.uckers.