Police Shoot and Kill Homeless Man

DavidRamsay99 · 03-03-2015 1:31pm

karma_ wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there, like David here who find it within themselves to defend the indefensible.

The evidence shows that Martin beat Zimmerman's head off the concrete before Zimmerman shot him.
The evidence shows that Brown was charging the officer who shot him dead after had already assaulted him and attempted to grab his gun.
The evidence shows that Garner died of obesity.

The evidence once again shows that this Africa guy was selling drugs, attacked a man, was approached by cops, violently resisted arrest, was tazed, continued to resist, tried to grab an officer's gun and was shot.

Caovyn Lineah · 03-03-2015 1:31pm

karma_ wrote: »

Come off it, it's not justice leaving a man dead on the street which could have easily been prevented. I've watched the video and it was an abject failure on their part that 6 officers could not peaceably or even with the use of tazers subdue one individual.

How would your opinion differ if he had managed to free the officers gun and he had taken one of their lives first?

DavidRamsay99 · 03-03-2015 1:33pm

karma_ wrote: »

Come off it, it's not justice leaving a man dead on the street which could have easily been prevented. I've watched the video and it was an abject failure on their part that 6 officers could not peaceably or even with the use of tazers subdue one individual.

There was no abject failure on behalf of the suspect to stop fighting off the cops, stop resisting arrest and stop trying to grab the officer's gun and presumably kill them?

You seem to be assuming that all confrontations can be solved peacefully and you are holding the police to an impossible standard while refusing to look at the real world evidence that shows this suspect was resisting arrest and tried to take an officer's gun to presumably kill the arresting officers.

dbit · 03-03-2015 1:41pm

karma_ wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there, like David here who find it within themselves to defend the indefensible.

I agree, he's the better call Saul type for sure.

dbit · 03-03-2015 1:45pm

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

There was no abject failure on behalf of the suspect to stop fighting off the cops, stop resisting arrest and stop trying to grab the officer's gun and presumably kill them?

You seem to be assuming that all confrontations can be solved peacefully and you are holding the police to an impossible standard while refusing to look at the real world evidence that shows this suspect was resisting arrest and tried to take an officer's gun to presumably kill the arresting officers.

The word presume is used how many times ? ass of you and me ? mother of all **** ups is the way i hear the word presume being used.

Cops ****ed up, most of the modern world will see it like that. Innocent until proven guilty, naaaaw shur, lets go straight to guilty and execute !!!! American civilians have been stripped of they're basic human rights with cops on a shoot to kill policy and then there is the big hairy scary TERRORISM act . Do me a favour and move to america m8.

DavidRamsay99 · 03-03-2015 1:49pm

dbit wrote: »

The word presume is used how many times ? ass of you and me ? mother of all **** ups is the way i hear the word presume being used.

Cops ****ed up, most of the modern world will see it like that. Innocent until proven guilty, naaaaw shur, lets go straight to guilty and execute !!!! American civilians have been stripped of they're basic human rights with cops on a shoot to kill policy and then there is the big hairy scary TERRORISM act . Do me a favour and move to america m8.

The CCTV and cell phone video show the sequence of events.
He was selling drugs, he attacked a man, he was confronted by the cops, he resisted arrest, they tased him, he reached for an officer's gun and they shot him.

UnitedIrishman · 03-03-2015 1:54pm

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

The evidence shows that Garner died of obesity.

Yeah, he just dropped dead of obesity one day. :rolleyes:

I'm convinced you're on a wind up.

dbit · 03-03-2015 1:54pm

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

The CCTV and cell phone video show the sequence of events.
He was selling drugs, he attacked a man, he was confronted by the cops, he resisted arrest, they tased him, he reached for an officer's gun and they shot him.

tis only €249 to new york !!! off wit ya lad !.

dbit · 03-03-2015 2:10pm

These are the people you hold in such moral high ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
Were you ever in the RA or possibly the RUC DavidRamsay99 ?

suicide_circus · 03-03-2015 2:19pm

dbit wrote: »

These are the people you hold in such moral high ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
Were you ever in the RA or possibly the RUC DavidRamsay99 ?

You'd better get iff the internet their bud, it was invented as a tool for the US military, you're practically condoning war crimes there

darkpagandeath · 03-03-2015 2:35pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Yeah, he just dropped dead of obesity one day. :rolleyes:

Choking someone would result in Asphyxiation. The Highly unfit man died of a heart attack due to struggling with police officers. Bit off a difference.

Anyway

Maybe change the Thread title to

"Violent Drug Dealer Resists arrest and is shot" or is that not sensational enough. Seen as we know what's happened now are we going to fall back on errr.... He was black or something.

Corvo · 03-03-2015 2:52pm

I just used Google Streetview to check out "Skid Row"

It's depressing as hell. What a life.

UnitedIrishman · 03-03-2015 3:01pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Choking someone would result in Asphyxiation. The Highly unfit man died of a heart attack due to struggling with police officers. Bit off a difference.

Anyway

Maybe change the Thread title to

"Violent Drug Dealer Resists arrest and is shot" or is that not sensational enough. Seen as we know what's happened now are we going to fall back on errr.... He was black or something.

Medical examiners concluded that Garner was killed by "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police"... The medical examiner ruled Garner's death a homicide.

Regardless, whether he was 300 odd pounds or not - he doesn't get choked, then he doesn't die.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 3:17pm

true567 wrote: »

A great idea would be to not resist against the cop(s). I have often fired back at cops with words but never physically, there is no reason to- especially not in this case as one can clearly see. Every time there is clear evidence that they resist their orders physically (yes, I mean when a black guy gets shot by a white cop). 2 years ago an American cop grabbed me from behind and literally threw me across a room while my shirt was clenched in his fist- I did nothing to him and after it answered his questions and was released from the situation. Although I had not done anything to begin with but a friend of a friend I was with was causing trouble- they were white and put in jail. However, someone like an Eric Gardner or Trayvon Martin or this guy would have done what I wanted to do in the moment and strike the guy in the face- its ridiculous that these are still stories and that people feel the need to make a thread about it. For the people who are so outraged, I suggest you go the states and work with the inner city kids or stop posting drivel every time this happens as if you were actually at the event. You just come off as trying to be holier than thou when in reality you are posting on a forum your sadness and frustrations (if even authentic) and probably not doing anything even related to helping out those in need with your career/volunteering (if applicable).

I am living in the states currently and I can breathe because I follow the law... They are currently selling shirts that say "I can breathe because I follow the law". Why? Because people are tired of the sensationalists making money of this and all of the fake concern that people like to put on (including posters here).

Well if you like living in a place where cops can just beat or kill you if you break the law even by mistake then don't lecture others about how you live in a free country. You see where I live if a cop is having a bad day and takes it out on me and I tell him to get lost and he beats me, he knows he's going to be in front of a judge.

Where you live if he beats you just for fun even if you're obeying the law, he isn't touched. All he has to say is you were resisting arrest or you went for his gun and it's case closed.

Cops in the US are paid a very good salary. They should be trained to ignore kids on skateboards or any group of "punks" who are doing nothing innocuous. But US cops aren't interested in "protecting and serving". They are interested in showing "who's boss" and if you don't show enough cowering, ass-kissing fear and respect then you take a hiding.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 3:18pm

creolebelle wrote: »

It's gotten better. It was horrible a couple of years ago.

Have they rounded up all the homeless and herded them out to Trenton?

darkpagandeath · 03-03-2015 3:30pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Have they rounded up all the homeless and herded them out to Trenton?

What do they do With them in Moscow ? Ah I forgot there are no poor people in that beacon of utopian delight.

And no Homeless people are not rounded up and shot by the Evil police officers.

true567 · 03-03-2015 3:50pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Well if you like living in a place where cops can just beat or kill you if you break the law even by mistake then don't lecture others about how you live in a free country. You see where I live if a cop is having a bad day and takes it out on me and I tell him to get lost and he beats me, he knows he's going to be in front of a judge.

Where you live if he beats you just for fun even if you're obeying the law, he isn't touched. All he has to say is you were resisting arrest or you went for his gun and it's case closed.

Cops in the US are paid a very good salary. They should be trained to ignore kids on skateboards or any group of "punks" who are doing nothing innocuous. But US cops aren't interested in "protecting and serving". They are interested in showing "who's boss" and if you don't show enough cowering, ass-kissing fear and respect then you take a hiding.

There were no facts stated no arguments made, typical drivel.

But while I have you here I would like to add that it is absolutely hilarious that someone who within the past week stated Russia is not a police state, is condemning the entire U.S. policing force. Honestly, if please answer this question for me so I know what I am dealing with, what is more representative of a police state- the U.S. or Russia?

true567 · 03-03-2015 3:51pm

Egginacup wrote: »

Well if you like living in a place where cops can just beat or kill you if you break the law even by mistake then don't lecture others about how you live in a free country. You see where I live if a cop is having a bad day and takes it out on me and I tell him to get lost and he beats me, he knows he's going to be in front of a judge.

Where you live if he beats you just for fun even if you're obeying the law, he isn't touched. All he has to say is you were resisting arrest or you went for his gun and it's case closed.

Cops in the US are paid a very good salary. They should be trained to ignore kids on skateboards or any group of "punks" who are doing nothing innocuous. But US cops aren't interested in "protecting and serving". They are interested in showing "who's boss" and if you don't show enough cowering, ass-kissing fear and respect then you take a hiding.

There were no facts stated no arguments made, typical drivel.

But while I have you here I would like to add that it is absolutely hilarious that someone who within the past week stated Russia is not a police state, is condemning the entire U.S. policing force. Honestly, please answer this question for me so I know what I am dealing with, what is more representative of a police state- the U.S. or Russia?

RoboRat · 03-03-2015 4:22pm

The US cops need to do some serious unarmed combat classes. If 5 large cops cannot restrain one homeless guy without shooting him to death, they shouldn't be on the force.

Basic Wrestling / BJJ or even just knowing basic joint locks /Pressure points and grappling would be more than enough to be able to get control in those types of situations, but they just seem happy enough to pull the trigger instead.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 4:22pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's only funny because you ignore the main difference. Police have to confront these people, the others don't. They can fall back and ring for, you guessed it, the police.

My girlfriend managed a care centre in the UK. They had many people in their care, some who came for a few hours during the day, like some people with Downs Syndrome who liked to feel important and appreciated by doing some jobs around the place like washing dishes, folding towels and napkins and such, and others who stayed on a more permanent basis. One guy was George who had been there for 30 years. He was a big man with psychological problems. He was very vulnerable but wasn't a danger. The staff knew how he liked his tea and what program he looked forward to watching on TV and things like that. He was also allowed to go to the shops to get newspapers and milk.
One afternoon he went on one of these errands and didn't come back. After an hour or so the staff, understandably concerned sent out a search party. My girlfriend and an assistant went to the police station to report the incident. It turns out George hadn't taken his medication. Nothing hardcore, just a couple of pills to ease tension and heart palpitations that can spur panic attacks. Some police officers had cornered him near the shops and started questioning him. He was flustered and upset. He wasn't acting erratically or insane, just a bit on edge. The police unfortunately exacerbated his distress. They detained him, cuffed him and had a van come and they loaded him into it. At this stage he was beside himself with terror, saying he didn't want to be "taken away". They brought him to the station and put him in a cell.
The superintendant at the station explained that they had this "dangerous" individual in custody. The girls explained that he was a patient (they use the term "service user") at the centre and that they knew him and had built up a relationship with him and that he trusted and respected them.
The superintendant had George, who was sobbing at this stage, brought out. The girls calmed him down and said "Oh, George, what have you gone and done? Are you alright? Do you want to come home?" George replied that he got confused and frightened and indeed he wanted to go "home" to his bed. They called the centre and had the lad with the minivan come to collect George.

When they were leaving the superintendant told the girls that he wished his men had half the skill, training and patience that they demonstrated with that man and even asked if he could contact them for advice in future when dealing with people he didn't understand. Of course they agreed. That was in Cheshire.

"Of all manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most"

--- Thucyclides

jimgoose · 03-03-2015 4:25pm

I am getting a little annoyed by these fools emptying automatic pistols into poor, helpless, distressed people. I think they can do better, and should be expected to. :mad:

Celticfire · 03-03-2015 4:28pm

Egginacup wrote: »

My girlfriend managed a care centre in the UK. They had many people in their care, some who came for a few hours during the day, like some people with Downs Syndrome who liked to feel important and appreciated by doing some jobs around the place like washing dishes, folding towels and napkins and such, and others who stayed on a more permanent basis. One guy was George who had been there for 30 years. He was a big man with psychological problems. He was very vulnerable but wasn't a danger. The staff knew how he liked his tea and what program he looked forward to watching on TV and things like that. He was also allowed to go to the shops to get newspapers and milk.
One afternoon he went on one of these errands and didn't come back. After an hour or so the staff, understandably concerned sent out a search party. My girlfriend and an assistant went to the police station to report the incident. It turns out George hadn't taken his medication. Nothing hardcore, just a couple of pills to ease tension and heart palpitations that can spur panic attacks. Some police officers had cornered him near the shops and started questioning him. He was flustered and upset. He wasn't acting erratically or insane, just a bit on edge. The police unfortunately exacerbated his distress. They detained him, cuffed him and had a van come and they loaded him into it. At this stage he was beside himself with terror, saying he didn't want to be "taken away". They brought him to the station and put him in a cell.
The superintendant at the station explained that they had this "dangerous" individual in custody. The girls explained that he was a patient (they use the term "service user") at the centre and that they knew him and had built up a relationship with him and that he trusted and respected them.
The superintendant had George, who was sobbing at this stage, brought out. The girls calmed him down and said "Oh, George, what have you gone and done? Are you alright? Do you want to come home?" George replied that he got confused and frightened and indeed he wanted to go "home" to his bed. They called the centre and had the lad with the minivan come to collect George.

When they were leaving the superintendant told the girls that he wished his men had half the skill, training and patience that they demonstrated with that man and even asked if he could contact them for advice in future when dealing with people he didn't understand. Of course they agreed. That was in Cheshire.

"Of all manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most"

--- Thucyclides

It's a beautiful story...... it would bring a tear to a glass eye.

RoboRat · 03-03-2015 4:34pm

Celticfire wrote: »

It's a beautiful story...... it would bring a tear to a glass eye.

Don't know why you're being sarcastic, this shows that in a lot of cases that just stepping back, and amping a situation down can lead to no situation at all.

I seen it day in an day out with drunken people when I used to do the door, some of the bouncers were itching for a fight when all the situation needed was a bit of dialogue to be resolved.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 4:36pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

one other thing about this debate about how americans treat their war heroes with many of them being recruited into police forces and fire departments and being retrained as paramedics, this guy was quite likely a veteran of one or more of americas skirmishes around the world yet was Fúckéd on top of the skid row pile with so many other true american heroes who actually fought and paid a heavy price for their beloved country! The armless the legless the blind and the insane, while the cops are just spineless .....

Considering 40% of homeless males are veterans then I think it's a very good possibility that he was a veteran.

Little CuChulainn · 03-03-2015 4:38pm

Egginacup wrote: »

My girlfriend managed a care centre in the UK. They had many people in their care, some who came for a few hours during the day, like some people with Downs Syndrome who liked to feel important and appreciated by doing some jobs around the place like washing dishes, folding towels and napkins and such, and others who stayed on a more permanent basis. One guy was George who had been there for 30 years. He was a big man with psychological problems. He was very vulnerable but wasn't a danger. The staff knew how he liked his tea and what program he looked forward to watching on TV and things like that. He was also allowed to go to the shops to get newspapers and milk.
One afternoon he went on one of these errands and didn't come back. After an hour or so the staff, understandably concerned sent out a search party. My girlfriend and an assistant went to the police station to report the incident. It turns out George hadn't taken his medication. Nothing hardcore, just a couple of pills to ease tension and heart palpitations that can spur panic attacks. Some police officers had cornered him near the shops and started questioning him. He was flustered and upset. He wasn't acting erratically or insane, just a bit on edge. The police unfortunately exacerbated his distress. They detained him, cuffed him and had a van come and they loaded him into it. At this stage he was beside himself with terror, saying he didn't want to be "taken away". They brought him to the station and put him in a cell.
The superintendant at the station explained that they had this "dangerous" individual in custody. The girls explained that he was a patient (they use the term "service user") at the centre and that they knew him and had built up a relationship with him and that he trusted and respected them.
The superintendant had George, who was sobbing at this stage, brought out. The girls calmed him down and said "Oh, George, what have you gone and done? Are you alright? Do you want to come home?" George replied that he got confused and frightened and indeed he wanted to go "home" to his bed. They called the centre and had the lad with the minivan come to collect George.

When they were leaving the superintendant told the girls that he wished his men had half the skill, training and patience that they demonstrated with that man and even asked if he could contact them for advice in future when dealing with people he didn't understand. Of course they agreed. That was in Cheshire.

"Of all manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most"

--- Thucyclides

What exactly is your point? That trained mental health workers with knowledge of a patient and a pre existing relationship with him are better suited to dealing with him than police?

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 4:46pm

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Brown beat the officer and tried to take his gun.
The officer would not be doing his job if he did not try to arrest him after he was attacked.
Brown charged him and the officer opened fire.
Justified.
The evidence backed up the officer's story.
Witnesses who claimed that Brown had his hands in the air when he was shot have been totally discredited.
End of.

End of? END OF? Excuse me but you don't get to decide that, OK?
Now I know the kind of person with whom I'm dealing. Don't waste my time anymore.

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 4:48pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So not only was it not brushed under the carpet as you claimed but the officers were actually prosecuted twice and two of them received jail sentences.

I never said it was brushed under the carpet. I knew that they were tried.

BlaasForRafa · 03-03-2015 4:49pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What do they do With them in Moscow ? Ah I forgot there are no poor people in that beacon of utopian delight.

And no Homeless people are not rounded up and shot by the Evil police officers.

It's only reporters and opposition politicians that get killed in soviet russia.

suicide_circus · 03-03-2015 4:50pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

What exactly is your point? That trained mental health workers with knowledge of a patient and a pre existing relationship with him are better suited to dealing with him than police?

He's got you there

Egginacup · 03-03-2015 4:54pm

karma_ wrote: »

Come off it, it's not justice leaving a man dead on the street which could have easily been prevented. I've watched the video and it was an abject failure on their part that 6 officers could not peaceably or even with the use of tazers subdue one individual.

Karma, you're dealing with sadists here. David and Caovyn and Lil Cuchulain and DPD if given a choice whereby a situation could be concluded peaceably or with the death of a suspect they would opt for the slaying, even if it was just as easy to end it with no shots fired.

Police Shoot and Kill Homeless Man

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