How will schools be able to go back in September?

khalessi · 13-04-2020 4:12pm

trapp wrote: »

I just fear that the department will sit on their hands and the closure will extend to January.

Just to respond to this. I can reassure you that the Department are not sitting on their hands at all, in fact they are working 16 hours a day, that I know of, trying to find a safe solution to an unprecedented global pandemic.

trapp · 13-04-2020 4:14pm

khalessi wrote: »

Just to respond to this. I can reassure you that the Department are not sitting on their hands at all, in fact they are working 16 hours a day, that I know of, trying to find a safe solution to an unprecedented global pandemic.

In that case I would be more optimistic.

s1ippy · 13-04-2020 4:14pm

starbaby2003 wrote: »

No you are. The economy takes priority. Parents need childcare and or school in order to partake in said economy. If you think people are just going to sit at home for the next year, you are very very mistaken on how the world works.

*worked

trapp · 13-04-2020 4:15pm

starbaby2003 wrote: »

You are OBSESSED with saying January and absolutely NOTHING to back it up. Give it a rest or at least provide something to back this date up.

I have nothing to back it up.

The current crisis perhaps.

I would not be surprised at all if schools did not return until September 2021.

I think it would be wrong but wouldn't be surprised.

khalessi · 13-04-2020 4:15pm

starbaby2003 wrote: »

No you are. The economy takes priority. Parents need childcare and or school in order to partake in said economy. If you think people are just going to sit at home for the next year, you are very very mistaken on how the world works.

Childcare and schools are two different issues

khalessi · 13-04-2020 4:17pm

trapp wrote: »

I have nothing to back it up.

The current crisis perhaps.

I would not be surprised at all if schools did not return until September 2021.

I think it would be wrong but wouldn't be surprised.

Since as you have said, you have nothing to back it up, would it not be better if you kept your fears and worries to yourself instead of scaremongering?

trapp · 13-04-2020 4:19pm

khalessi wrote: »

Since as you have said, you have nothing to back it up, would it not be better if you kept your fears and worries to yourself instead of scremongering?

When do you think schools will reopen?

khalessi · 13-04-2020 4:22pm

trapp wrote: »

When do you think schools will reopen?

The issue according to the title of this thread is how not when schools will reopen and my interest is how they will be able to do so safely.

I have a date in my head but have no proof for it and how by answering your question will that help anything here as it is just one opinion of many.

trapp · 13-04-2020 4:23pm

khalessi wrote: »

The issue according to the title of this thread is how not when schools will reopen and my interest is how they will be able to do so safely.

I have a date in my head but have no proof for it and how by answering your question will that help anything here as it is just one opinion of many.

The title is how will they go back in September.

I think January is a much better target to aim for.

khalessi · 13-04-2020 4:24pm

trapp wrote: »

The title is how will they go back in September.

I think January is a much better target to aim for.

Exactly the title is how, not to predict when

How do I tie my shoelaces? The answer is not January, it is a description of how one moves the laces to get them tied.

trapp · 13-04-2020 4:26pm

khalessi wrote: »

Exactly the title is how, not to predict when

How do I tie my shoelaces? The answer is not January, it is a description of how one moves the laces to get them tied.

How will they go back in September?

They won't.

January?

Hopefully.

September 2021 most realistic I fear.

TheValeyard · 13-04-2020 4:27pm

I'd say September.

But...

Every Wednesday could be a Junior Cert day and Thursday, Friday could be a correction day / study day.

LC continues as normal during the week

khalessi · 13-04-2020 4:28pm

trapp wrote: »

How will they go back in September?

They won't.

January?

Hopefully.

September 2021 most realistic I fear.

Trapp, you have said you dont have any evidence but as we know empty vessels make the most noise, thank you for your input

wirelessdude01 · 13-04-2020 4:29pm

PeterPan92 wrote: »

I am a primary teacher working online constantly, as are all teachers in my school. The vast majority of parents in the school are understanding and co-operative. However, we have seen a number of teachers in our school complaining about how Communions and Confirmations were cancelled, how the school has not rearranged these dates, and how it is a "joke" that the school cannot give them an answer to questions regarding these sacraments. The school obviously have more pressing matters to attend to, and also is clearly incapable of answering such inquiries at present.

My issue with this is that, even if schools were to return, it is highly unlikely events like the Communion and Confirmation could happen anyway, as they are such large events (70-80 children at each, plus families), and they also encourage family gatherings afterwards.

For want of a better word parents/guardians are 'thick' when it comes to things like this. Schools have no say in when these are held. The dates come from the diocesan office. Like just look around them at everything that is cancelled.and the only thing bothering them is that ðŸ™„

wirelessdude01 · 13-04-2020 4:35pm

trapp wrote: »

This would be especially for small 2/3 teacher schools, larger schools would manage as already plenty of learning support teachers to cover classes.

Jesus you have little respect for what SET teachers actually do. Their children need support moreso than your 'average' child.

jrosen · 13-04-2020 4:37pm

khalessi wrote: »

Childcare and schools are two different issues

Childcare and schools may be different issues but there is a huge % of the population who work around school time tables and who would have no childcare for the hours their child is usually in school.

So unless there is a sudden surge in creche places or child minders parents wont be able to return to work in full capacity without schools opening.

trapp · 13-04-2020 4:39pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Jesus you have little respect for what SET teachers actually do. Their children need support moreso than your 'average' child.

I have loads of respect for what they do in normal times.

I was just considering options for how to keep schools open or even open at times over the next few years.

These teachers covering classes might be better and allow sub teachers to become permanent for the year in smaller schools rather than moving from school to school in a pandemic.

Idbatterim · 13-04-2020 4:41pm

Parish hall , church , sport hall, they can easily segregate a lot of them !

Lackey · 13-04-2020 4:42pm

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Where the fcuk do you live? America? Grad night, pre debs, debs, LC holiday!??!?? Get a grip for God's sake!!

Straight after my leaving I went to the bog and the hurling field for 3 months and then straight to college. That's real life. Not some suburban US fantasy land that you and your children seem to exist in.

Ha!
and in your day you walked to school.. 10 miles with holes in your shoes...in the snow I bet

And when you were ‘on the bog’ there was someone older giving out about you not knowing a hard life if it slapped you in the face, heading off to college with ‘notions’

None of these things are big and fancy where I live but they do happen
And I think it’s very harsh to just say ‘they’ll have to get on with it’ it lacks empathy

trapp · 13-04-2020 4:43pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Parish hall , church , sport hall, they can easily segregate a lot of them !

Exactly but needs to be planned for.

to expect this planning to be ready by september is wishful thinking.

Open again in January around the country and September 2021 in Dublin I fear.

khalessi · 13-04-2020 4:44pm

trapp wrote: »

Exactly but needs to be planned for.

to expect this planning to be ready by september is wishful thinking.

Open again in January around the country and September 2021 in Dublin I fear.

You have no evidence, as you yourself stated for a Dublin 2021 reopening and if you do can you please provide the link

r93kaey5p2izun · 13-04-2020 4:46pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Parish hall , church , sport hall, they can easily segregate a lot of them !

Would you envisage much actual teaching and education occurring in this sort of scenario? Or just crowd control to allow parents go back to work? The thoughts that children would sit quietly spaced out in a big hall and listen to a distant teacher and actually learn something is fairly pie in the sky I think. Teenagers even less likely to comply.

NIMAN · 13-04-2020 4:48pm

trapp wrote: »

Exactly but needs to be planned for.

to expect this planning to be ready by september is wishful thinking.

Open again in January around the country and September 2021 in Dublin I fear.

Not a chance.
There is no way kids will be off school in Dublin until Sept 2021.

The economy, plus schools , businesses, offices etc will all have to be back up and running long before this year is out imho. We have to get the country back up and running asap, even if this means the old and compromised taking extra precautions and the rest of us getting on with it. We may have to live with a certain death toll, as cruel as that sounds.

joe40 · 13-04-2020 4:52pm

This is affecting the whole world. I can't imagine education globally coming to a halt much past September. This will have knock on affects for colleges etc. Even just consider the Doctor and nurses that retire this year s new crop of replacements will be needed.
It is a conveyor belt. LC to college, college to graduates etc.

byhookorbycrook · 13-04-2020 4:56pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Parish hall , church , sport hall, they can easily segregate a lot of them !

Many primary schools don’t have a hall . Can you imagine trying to teach 30 6 year olds in a church ? What about bathrooms ? Child protection measures for off-site classes ?What about school transport ?

antgal23 · 13-04-2020 4:58pm

Govt officials said there'll be a lifting of restrictions on a reversed basis, e.g. schools were closed first and will be last time open

(If Govt reach aim of RO below one)

With current restrictions in place until May 5th one would hope that movement restrictions will be relaxed on this date.

Followed by non- essential retail, then bars then schools.

I suggest early June for retail, early August for bars and September for schools

Could be completely wrong here

r93kaey5p2izun · 13-04-2020 5:02pm

antgal23 wrote: »

Govt officials said there'll be a lifting of restrictions on a reversed basis, e.g. schools were closed first and will be last time open

(If Govt reach aim of RO below one)

With current restrictions in place until May 5th one would hope that movement restrictions will be relaxed on this date.

Followed by non- essential retail, then bars then schools.

I suggest early June for retail, early August for bars and September for schools

Could be completely wrong here

They're planning for one LC exam a day with increased spacing using JC supervisors in August, and have flagged staggered opening as a possibility for September to unions just a few days ago. I think it's highly unlikely on that basis that bars would be open in August and schools back to normal fully in September. It could happen, but it certainly does not look like that's what the government is preparing for.

Ray Donovan · 13-04-2020 5:13pm

Just running with this thought process.

Say a school has 200 pupils and 12 teachers including Special Ed.

Monday to Wednesday lunchtime - 100 kids are brought in and split into the 12 rooms and taught by the teachers in a ratio of 8/9 pupils to 1 teachers.

At lunchtime on Wednesday these 100 kids go home and the other 100 come in and repeat.

No children withdrawn for Special Ed unfortunately due to logistics etc.

Just a thought but probably a million reasons why this couldn’t happen.

khalessi · 13-04-2020 5:18pm

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Just running with this thought process.

Say a school has 200 pupils and 12 teachers including Special Ed.

Monday to Wednesday lunchtime - 100 kids are brought in and split into the 12 rooms and taught by the teachers in a ratio of 8/9 pupils to 1 teachers.

At lunchtime on Wednesday these 100 kids go home and the other 100 come in and repeat.

No children withdrawn for Special Ed unfortunately due to logistics etc.

Just a thought but probably a million reasons why this couldn’t happen.

The biggest issue I can see with this is parents saying they couldnt work as who would mind the kids not in school. It probably is an ide being considered but who knows.

ZX7R · 13-04-2020 5:22pm

Primary school are actually the easiest for the government to facilitate a return to school.
Easiest for return in September.
For example a class of 30 students can be rotated daily 15 on 15 off teacher and class help to inforce social distancing.

Secondary schools will be much more harder ,main problem being the students move from classroom to classroom for each subject.
some ideas I've heard is the students don't move but the teachers do and have one day a week for classes that require students to be in a specialised classroom example science, biology ECT.
Could start back in September with work.

Collages/ universities
That is the biggest nightmare to try and facilitate a return for students some campuses in Ireland could have up to
13000 students some full time some part-time post graduates
At the moment most are looking at a mixture of on line teaching and lectures on campus.
3rd level education will be a logistical nightmare for social distancing.
Can't see a return before November as they will need to clear this year's exams.

Teachers Union's and other Union's that are connected to education are and will have to adapt to the circumstances.
It's going to be a New world for our education system.

El_Duderino 09 · 13-04-2020 5:24pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But we won’t stay in lockdown for that long. We simply can’t. Life will have to go on, even if it means survival of the fittest.

Maybe. It would take a very brave politician to announce they were reopening the economy and acknowledging that meant the health service would b overrun and loads more people would die.

khalessi · 13-04-2020 5:24pm

ZX7R wrote: »

Primary school are actually the easiest for the government to facilitate a return to school.
Easiest for return in September.
For example a class of 30 students can be rotated daily 15 on 15 off teacher and class help to inforce social distancing.
.

Who will mind the portion of the class not in school?

ZX7R · 13-04-2020 5:35pm

khalessi wrote: »

Who will mind the portion of the class not in school?

They will be at home,
Sadly that would not be the schools responsibility.
Parents older siblings, relations ,trusted neighbors ,who knows.
Parents will have to make compromises with there work ECT

r93kaey5p2izun · 13-04-2020 5:37pm

ZX7R wrote: »

Secondary schools will be much more harder ,main problem being the students move from classroom to classroom for each subject.
some ideas I've heard is the students don't move but the teachers do and have one day a week for classes that require students to be in a specialised classroom example science, biology ECT.
Could start back in September with work.

Students staying put might work for junior classes with minimal streaming and majority core subjects, but it's not much use for more senior groups. The composition of Higher Level English versus HL Maths can be very different - there would have to be movement in and out. And options make up the bulk of LC timetables, with lots of swapping and changing required, aside from specialist rooms.

13-04-2020 5:39pm

Our society runs very much like a large conveyor belt. People die, babies are born, kids start school, kids finish school, people retire, people graduate and start work. It’s how the world works.

You can’t just stop a production line for a few years without causing absolute chaos.

If schools didn’t open again until 2021, how on earth would we deal with the backlog of kids waiting to start school.

It’s just not going to happen. We need to rock on eventually. Probably with warnings to the elderly to stay inside.

ZX7R · 13-04-2020 5:55pm

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

Students staying put might work for junior classes with minimal streaming and majority core subjects, but it's not much use for more senior groups. The composition of Higher Level English versus HL Maths can be very different - there would have to be movement in and out. And options make up the bulk of LC timetables, with lots of swapping and changing required, aside from specialist rooms.

Maybe teach a certain standard level of maths English ECT
If students want to do a higher level in certain subjects they could be tutored on line or something to that effect

jrosen · 13-04-2020 5:59pm

At some point companies will want their work force back and fully engaged. That wont work with months of kids out of school. Especially for those families who use childcare outside of school hours.
The schools cant stay closed because how would they manage the numbers next year? You would have a whole year of education owed to students.

alroley · 13-04-2020 6:03pm

ZX7R wrote: »

Secondary schools will be much more harder ,main problem being the students move from classroom to classroom for each subject.
some ideas I've heard is the students don't move but the teachers do and have one day a week for classes that require students to be in a specialised classroom example science, biology ECT.
Could start back in September with work.

In most secondary schools senior cycle students are in different classes with different people for each subject. In junior cycle they are usually in base classes for English, Geography, History and a few other subjects. They'd be mixed up for all other subjects.

khalessi · 13-04-2020 6:05pm

jrosen wrote: »

At some point companies will want their work force back and fully engaged. That wont work with months of kids out of school. Especially for those families who use childcare outside of school hours.
The schools cant stay closed because how would they manage the numbers next year? You would have a whole year of education owed to students.

Definitely teachers don't want that, but everyone will have to follow the advice given by the Dept of Ed in conjunction with NPHET regarding the reopening of schools and nothing we write here will change that eventuality.

All that we can hope is that it is done safely enough to prevent spread of virus and an increase of the reproductive rate of the virus and not endanger the more immunocompromised members of the school environment, children and staff.

jrosen · 13-04-2020 6:08pm

khalessi wrote: »

Childcare and schools are two different issues

khalessi wrote: »

Definitely teachers don't want that, but everyone will have to follow the advice given by the Dept of Ed in conjunction with NPHET regarding the reopening of schools and nothing we write here will change that eventuality.

All that we can hope is that it is done safely enough to prevent spread of virus and an increase of the reproductive rate of the virus and not endanger the more immunocompromised members of the school environment, children and staff.

Wonder would those immunocompromised people not have to stay home? Would the expectation be they take more precautions?

wirelessdude01 · 13-04-2020 6:11pm

Will teachers have to issued with some form of PPE when we go back seeing as we are generally in close contact with children?

khalessi · 13-04-2020 6:16pm

jrosen wrote: »

Wonder would those immunocompromised people not have to stay home? Would the expectation be they take more precautions?

Those with asthma, diabetes, kidney ailments, overweight and certain medications that prior to Covid19 wouldnt have been considered risky should stay at home? They re entitled to an education so how would that be managed and those are the types of questions the Dept of Ed will find themselves up against and will probably defer to the teachers to manage re social distancing but that is not ideal as a parent you you be happy if a child with a cough and no temp was in same room as your child?

khalessi · 13-04-2020 6:16pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Will teachers have to issued with some form of PPE when we go back seeing as we are generally in close contact with children?

One would hope so

Acey10 · 13-04-2020 6:17pm

I wonder where creches and preschools stand in all this? very hard to get toddlers to keep to social distancing..??

jrosen · 13-04-2020 6:24pm

khalessi wrote: »

Those with asthma, diabetes, kidney ailments, overweight and certain medications that prior to Covid19 wouldnt have been considered risky should stay at home? They re entitled to an education so how would that be managed and those are the types of questions the Dept of Ed will find themselves up against and will probably defer to the teachers to manage re social distancing but that is not ideal as a parent you you be happy if a child with a cough and no temp was in same room as your child?

I actually would prefer to see a far stricter line taken with unwell children generally but thats a whole other discussion. Its a fine line between common sense and hysteria. The question is do we trust parents to keep their kids home? Im not so sure I do having seen kids almost green in the school line in the morning.
I would think anyone who would be considered high risk should be supported if they chose to stay home as a starting point. But thats another hurdle. But I would think high risk students should stay home. Unless doctors can get involved and clear students? It will be interesting to see how other countries manage

khalessi · 13-04-2020 6:26pm

jrosen wrote: »

I actually would prefer to see a far stricter line taken with unwell children generally but thats a whole other discussion. Its a fine line between common sense and hysteria. The question is do we trust parents to keep their kids home? Im not so sure I do having seen kids almost green in the school line in the morning.
I would think anyone who would be considered high risk should be supported if they chose to stay home as a starting point. But thats another hurdle. But I would think high risk students should stay home. Unless doctors can get involved and clear students? It will be interesting to see how other countries manage

Having been handed children calpoled to the eyeballs it would be a worry. And btw high risk also applies to staff as some medications taken prior to Covic19 lets say for psoriasis or Lupus or other conditions that lower immune systems could put them at risk too

jrosen · 13-04-2020 6:29pm

khalessi wrote: »

Having been handed children calpoled to the eyeballs it would be a worry. And btw high risk also applies to staff as some medications taken prior to Covic19 lets say for psoriasis or Lupus or other conditions that lower immune systems could put them at risk too

Yes sorry I hadn't included staff but of course should have.

r93kaey5p2izun · 13-04-2020 6:31pm

If high risk staff are to stay at home schools will seriously struggle to provide several key subjects. Dublin schools already barely managing before this!

khalessi · 13-04-2020 6:36pm

Well I would commsider myself high risk for a number of reasons but would be happy to teach in PPE, and not PPE to a hospital extent just mask and gloves.

wirelessdude01 · 13-04-2020 6:41pm

khalessi wrote: »

Well I would commsider myself high risk for a number of reasons but would be happy to teach in PPE, and not PPE to a hospital extent just mask and gloves.

Think it would have to be a full mask guard really plus gloves. The auld standard type mask wouldn't cover your eyes from droplets.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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