How will schools be able to go back in September?

Xertz

All we can do as a country is follow the best scientific advice we have available on any of these closure or reopening issues and balance that with the social and economic impacts in a proper risk analysis.

At some stage, we do have to start reopening things, but on the other side of it, we also have to remember that while there may not be damage to infrastructure or some kind of military invasion, this is still a major natural disaster we're dealing with and there will be disruption and consequences to that.

The impression I get is while most people are taking it seriously, a % seem to still think this is just like we are going to snap our fingers and it will be business as usual. It won't. This is a going to have to be a phased restoration of normality and you are also looking at a scenario where there will be fairly drastic economic impacts domestically but also internationally over the weeks and months ahead and probably for quite a few years ahead.

We need to get this right, not rushed and there's a risk in both being too quick or too conservative as one will result in a second spike in cases and serious consequences and the other could result in unnecessary economic and social implications.

We will probably all be able to look back at this in a few months saying that things were miscalculated because it's impossible to be 100% right. So, all we're left with is making a call based on the balance of evidence and the facts as we know and understand them at present.

We need, and are clearly already developing, a strategy to get out of this, but the only way we will get back to normality in the medium term is with a technical solution to this, otherwise it will inevitably keep bubbling away in the background.

trapp

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

So might you, health is a priority here, if needs be everyone will need to reduce their standard of living to the very basics, extra tax, reduced incomes, banks should already have reduced the interest rates. We make it work we don't sacrifice people's lives.

Never going to happen.

Why would anyone work or do anything to better themselves?

Dublingirl80

trapp wrote: »

Never going to happen.

Why would anyone work or do anything to better themselves?

Why does anyone ever work? This makes no sense. People need to work to pay their bills, if necessary we all need to forego the luxuries for a while.

CC2020

On the topic of returning to school, has anyone any thoughts or news on what term dates might be like for 2020/2021 academic year? How likely is it Easter holidays etc will remain the same for 2021?

trapp

CC2020 wrote: »

On the topic of returning to school, has anyone any thoughts or news on what term dates might be like for 2020/2021 academic year? How likely is it Easter holidays etc will remain the same for 2021?

Forget term dates and holidays and standardised school year.

Schools won't be back until January at the earliest I fear.

Murple

trapp wrote: »

Exactly.

These are the ideas the department need to work on and principals adapt to suit their own school over the next few months.

Then ready to open in January with each child attending once or twice per week.

With social distancing still in place one would hope not many teachers would become sick but perhaps schools should be permitted to hire extra teachers for this year to ensure cover.

This would be especially for small 2/3 teacher schools, larger schools would manage as already plenty of learning support teachers to cover classes.

I think you are overestimating the number of learning support teachers in most schools. Also, the larger the school, the greater the risk of infection spreading and to a bigger number. You could easily have 6 or 7 teachers out at one time in a fairly average size school. Getting subs has been a huge challenge in many Dublin schools, the schools most likely to be affected by outbreaks.
If learning support teachers are covering classes then the very children who need additional support won’t get it and children will be in school just for the sake of being there and not for any great educational reason.
Having children attending for a day a week won’t allow them to learn anything much, especially the younger ones. It will be huge risk for little progress.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The reasons for being in lockdown will be exactly the same in a few months as they are right now. If people go out and about, the numbers will rise. And they'll explode unless we go back into lockdown.

It'll be a matter of balancing getting everyone to get it but only at the rate the health service can keep up with.

The governments started by saying it would take a few weeks, and then another few weeks, then another few weeks. But the reality is that it will take months or years

But we won’t stay in lockdown for that long. We simply can’t. Life will have to go on, even if it means survival of the fittest.

trapp

Murple wrote: »

I think you are overestimating the number of learning support teachers in most schools. Also, the larger the school, the greater the risk of infection spreading and to a bigger number. You could easily have 6 or 7 teachers out at one time in a fairly average size school. Getting subs has been a huge challenge in many Dublin schools, the schools most likely to be affected by outbreaks.
If learning support teachers are covering classes then the very children who need additional support won’t get it and children will be in school just for the sake of being there and not for any great educational reason.
Having children attending for a day a week won’t allow them to learn anything much, especially the younger ones. It will be huge risk for little progress.

These are only ideas.

Perhaps redeploy more teachers into deis schools and just open those.

I'm not sure there are alternatives other than schools remaining closed for 2/3 years?

r93kaey5p2izun

Fergal Bowers reporting that Simon Harris has said it looks like we will have social distancing until there is a vaccine.

Schools cannot open as normal in this scenario. Staggered attendance at a minimum would be required.

trapp

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

Fergal Bowers reporting that Simon Harris has said it looks like we will have social distancing until there is a vaccine.

Schools cannot open as normal in this scenario. Staggered attendance at a minimum would be required.

Exactly.

Schools will not return to normal.

Question is do we consider opening them essential?

If so then educators need to spend time actively exploring safe ways to do this such as staggered attendance as you mentioned.

And be ready to open in January 2021.

No point sitting on their hands until then.

Teachers do great work but together with the department they need to think about how to get up and running again instead of waiting for a normal that won't come.

All that fandango

Sorry if this is wrong thread to be asking, but does anyone personally know of any student teachers who were on their final year placement when all this happened and how are they now being assessed? I know on the TC website they say they wont be looking for these student teachers to make back the time lost but just curious as to what kind of assessment they are doing in lieu. I ask because Im due to go into final year college in September with placement commencing in next January. Supposed to have a week of observation aswell the very first week students are back in late august but not sure if this is still going to go ahead.

r93kaey5p2izun

trapp wrote: »

Exactly.

Schools will not return to normal.

Question is do we consider opening them essential?

If so then educators need to spend time actively exploring safe ways to do this such as staggered attendance as you mentioned.

And be ready to open in January 2021.

No point sitting on their hands until then.

Teachers do great work but together with the department they need to think about how to get up and running again instead of waiting for a normal that won't come.

Educators, as you call them, have to follow the advice of the health officials. No decisions about operating should be made by anyone but health officials. They need to consult with teachers and principals and management bodies, and make that decision. Not the other way around. I thought you were a primary teacher? Are you sitting on your hands instead of doing something?

youandme13

youandme13 wrote: »

I know parents have to work etc, but creches are worse places for spreading of viruses etc. How can you have 12 two year old with 2 adults and expect them to social distance?

Schools would be easier to control this as they are older and would understand.

They would be equally bad. A 5 year old doesn't generally sneeze or cough into elbow, hand washing isn't correct, even 12 year olds all using same bathrooms, etc. And up to 35 in a classroom? No room to socially distance so many children in any classroom. Teacher unable to assist individually with work etc. That is not to mention the huge amount of pupils with special needs in school that will not understand any social distancing or personal hygiene and therefore put themselves and those they are in contact with in danger of infection. Neither creches nor schools are a runner until a later date.

trapp

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

Educators, as you call them, have to follow the advice of the health officials. No decisions about operating should be made by anyone but health officials. They need to consult with teachers and principals and management bodies, and make that decision. Not the other way around. I thought you were a primary teacher? Are you sitting on your hands instead of doing something?

I don't mean sitting on their hands, I know they are working with the children online.

I mean expecting to open up as normal in September.

I'm not a teacher.

r93kaey5p2izun

trapp wrote: »

I don't mean sitting on their hands, I know they are working with the children online.

I mean expecting to open up as normal in September.

I'm not a teacher.

Oh, you posted before about teacher training. My mistake.

I don't think teachers do expect to open as normal in September. Post primary unions have already flagged this with members but all is vague at the moment. They will be working on solutions with the DES. Schools are looking for solutions locally too but it's difficult to make any plans without any sort of guidance on what level of physical distancing will be required. If they had parameters they could look at how to make things work within the parameters.

PeterPan92

trapp wrote: »

Exactly.

And be ready to open in January 2021.

.

I do not understand where January has come from. September at the latest. I'm a teacher, and can assure you that January is too long a time for the vast majority of children to be off school. No matter how well intentioned the parents are, children need the structure and routine of school.

Staggered attendance in September if needs be, but we do need it to be September.

trapp

PeterPan92 wrote: »

I do not understand where January has come from. September at the latest. I'm a teacher, and can assure you that January is too long a time for the vast majority of children to be off school. No matter how well intentioned the parents are, children need the structure and routine of school.

Staggered attendance in September if needs be, but we do need it to be September.

I agree.

But I fear it will be January or even later through lack of planning and preparation.

And that's from the minister and the department not educators themselves.

jrosen

PeterPan92 wrote: »

I do not understand where January has come from. September at the latest. I'm a teacher, and can assure you that January is too long a time for the vast majority of children to be off school. No matter how well intentioned the parents are, children need the structure and routine of school.

Staggered attendance in September if needs be, but we do need it to be September.

Are there some years in primary school that would need to come back before the rest? Could lets say the incoming JI be put off?

PeterPan92

trapp wrote: »

I agree.

But I fear it will be January or even later through lack of planning and preparation.

And that's from the minister and the department not educators themselves.

Exactly. It is NOT from the department. This attempt at predicting and fear mongering is not helpful to anyway. I'm not a naive optimist thinking everything will return to normal in May or June. However, at some point things do need to return to some semblance of normality. This country, nor it's people, can wait until January to return. Schools are already back in countries that have come through the worst of the virus. Other countries have made the decision not to close schools at all (yet, at least). Why would Ireland pick a 9 month closure? It's unsubstantiated and non-nonsensical to be honest.

trapp

jrosen wrote: »

Are there some years in primary school that would need to come back before the rest? Could lets say the incoming JI be put off?

Possibly.

And restart in January with this years classes including 6th so everyone staying back a year in primary school.

Would help secondary schools not to have first years arriving next year too.

Everything back to normal then by September 2021.

PeterPan92

jrosen wrote: »

Are there some years in primary school that would need to come back before the rest? Could lets say the incoming JI be put off?

At a minimum I would say JI, SI, 1st, 3rd and 5th need to be in. 2nd, 4th and 6th is building on learning from those classes, but those 5 would be the most essential in terms of new material.

trapp

PeterPan92 wrote: »

Exactly. It is NOT from the department. This attempt at predicting and fear mongering is not helpful to anyway. I'm not a naive optimist thinking everything will return to normal in May or June. However, at some point things do need to return to some semblance of normality. This country, nor it's people, can wait until January to return. Schools are already back in countries that have come through the worst of the virus. Other countries have made the decision not to close schools at all (yet, at least). Why would Ireland pick a 9 month closure? It's unsubstantiated and non-nonsensical to be honest.

Sorry I meant that what could lead to a January return is a lack of planning and preparation from the minister and the department not any fault of teachers.

I don't think schools are back in many countries.

I agree schools should open in September and I think it's a realistic aim.

I just fear that the department will sit on their hands and the closure will extend to January.

I think it would be wrong but I fear it will happen.

khalessi

PeterPan92 wrote: »

Schools are already back in countries that have come through the worst of the virus. Other countries have made the decision not to close schools at all (yet, at least). Why would Ireland pick a 9 month closure? It's unsubstantiated and non-nonsensical to be honest.

It has to do with the reproductive rate or R, which has to do with infection rate, it was 4.3% on 16th March fell to 2.5 % on 31st March and is now about 1% and we need to get it below one so it is supressed and we can continue to live life alongside the virus as Simon Harris said earlier today, and then they can start planning for everything including reopening of schools

That has to go down below 1 and in many of these countries it has not gone down below 1 so the chances are a surge will be seen in the following weeks as schools reopen.

A 9 month closure has not ever been stated by the Dept of Ed. just on social media if anyting they are being very careful talking about closures as this is a marathon not a sprint.

Ray Donovan

Lackey wrote: »

I would love for you to save this and set it to pop up in your memories when you are the parent of two secondary school children
See if you still flippantly say ‘they’ll just have to live with it’

I’ve posted this already :
It’s their last year at school with their mates Grad night, pre debs, LC, Debs, LC holiday, earning their own money, College/apprenticeships etc..
if you can't remember being young (or are pretending not to)at least try have a bit of empathy.
You cant put an old head on young shoulders, and you shouldn't want to.

I think
The country will start to reopen in May
Schools will be back in Sept

Where the fcuk do you live? America? Grad night, pre debs, debs, LC holiday!??!?? Get a grip for God's sake!!

Straight after my leaving I went to the bog and the hurling field for 3 months and then straight to college. That's real life. Not some suburban US fantasy land that you and your children seem to exist in.

Birdy

The leaks about a possible May return is no coincidence.

The reality is that the situation could be much worse in September. The chances are that we could be in and out of lockdown to control the numbers.

Primary education is an essential service. Closing until January is simply out of the question. There won't be time to make up for all those lost months. Online learning is heavily dependent on parental involvement and that puts the most disadvantaged kids at risk.

trapp

Birdy wrote: »

The leaks about a possible May return is no coincidence.

The reality is that the situation could be much worse in September. The chances are that we could be in and out of lockdown to control the numbers.

Primary education is an essential service. Closing until January is simply out of the question. There won't be time to make up for all those lost months. Online learning is heavily dependent on parental involvement and that puts the most disadvantaged kids at risk.

This is the big question.

If it is essential educators and the department need to find a way to make it work until normal school can resume in a few years.

Very true about online learning, that is not a solution.

s1ippy

PeterPan92 wrote: »

I do not understand where January has come from. September at the latest. I'm a teacher, and can assure you that January is too long a time for the vast majority of children to be off school. No matter how well intentioned the parents are, children need the structure and routine of school.

Staggered attendance in September if needs be, but we do need it to be September.

You must be living in Never Never land if you think reopening schools takes priority in a global pandemic. "Need" vs "want" at play here. We "need" not to incur mass casualties.

khalessi

Re lifting of restrictions after 5th May Simon Harris states that the progress we make on these three weeks will mean according to SImon HArris tweaking of restrcitions, not going back to life as it was before the coronavirus, no magic point where life as we knew can resume. Social distancing will remain a big part of life till we get a vaccine.

We are going to be looking at a degree of trial and error and benefit of watching other countries and seeing the impact. He also mentioned that things they would be looking at very closely before easing restrictions and if they did change them and monitor very closely would be icu capacty rather then who gets sick with virus, an dnever allow situation where it is breached, the R rate if every 1 person infecting less then 1 person, if it rises too quickly and the rate of growth of infections. The better these are the more options they have to make decisions

So I think the idea of school reopening in MAy would be unlikely.

starbaby2003

trapp wrote: »

Sorry I meant that what could lead to a January return is a lack of planning and preparation from the minister and the department not any fault of teachers.

I don't think schools are back in many countries.

I agree schools should open in September and I think it's a realistic aim.

I just fear that the department will sit on their hands and the closure will extend to January.

I think it would be wrong but I fear it will happen.

You are OBSESSED with saying January and absolutely NOTHING to back it up. Give it a rest or at least provide something to back this date up.

starbaby2003

s1ippy wrote: »

You must be living in Never Never land if you think reopening schools takes priority in a global pandemic. "Need" vs "want" at play here. We "need" not to incur mass casualties.

No you are. The economy takes priority. Parents need childcare and or school in order to partake in said economy. If you think people are just going to sit at home for the next year, you are very very mistaken on how the world works.