RIP Martin McGuinness

Junkyard Tom · 25-03-2017 1:21am

timthumbni wrote: »

So what exactly are you doing about it big balls???

I support Educate Together. We raised a few quid for one of their schools recently albiet in a roundabout way via a tragedy. If I had my way all church-owned school property would seized and turned over to the state in Ireland and all education would be secularized.

(To others that's a common Norn Iron bit of slagging).

You're grand, I'm not particularly thin-skinned. Just be careful though - the mods might take offence on someone else's behalf! :pac:

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 1:23am

There is a programme on BbC 4 right now which illustrates what we are discussing.
There is a famous soldier ( I don't remember his name) who got horribly burned when the Galahad ship was sunk in the Malvina's. It was all about his injury, the deaths of his colleagues but there was not a mention of what they were on their way to do, the exact same thing to the other side. The one-sided history and glory of war on the TV right now. Brought to you by the BBC.
Let us write a real history.

greenflash · 25-03-2017 1:37am

Why Malvinas? They were originally named the Falkland Islands. The later Spanish name came from the conquistadors who ravaged and colonised South America, leaving Argentina with the lowest population of native Amerindians in the South American continent. Prior to the British (Scottish) landing the Islands didn't have a name as indigenous South Americans had never gone near the place.

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 1:46am

greenflash wrote: »

Why Malvinas? They were originally named the Falkland Islands. The later Spanish name came from the conquistadors who ravaged and colonised South America, leaving Argentina with the lowest population of native Amerindians in the South American continent. Prior to the British (Scottish) landing the Islands didn't have a name as indigenous South Americans had never gone near the place.

I prefer to call them by the name used by those most entitled to them. Or more entitled than colonists half the world away.

greenflash · 25-03-2017 2:26am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I prefer to call them by the name used by those most entitled to them. Or more entitled than colonists half the world away.

Nonsense

Hamlet. · 25-03-2017 2:48am

RIP one of the few great Irishmen who were left.

Sadly this island consists of nothing but an American ideology and a British culture.

Some of the comments from major media outlets about him this weeks have been nothing short of shameful, vile propaganda and brainwashing of the highest order. The world terrorists throughout history have been the British, let's not mention their involvement in these islands, India or Iran though.

They chastise a man for joining the IRA in retaliation for unprovoked attacks from their government. Yet the outrage over the car crash in London this week sums it all up. Countless acts of oppression, greed and ravaging nations yet in their minds they will always be blameless and somehow victims. When you understand the disgusting behaviour of the British down the centuries in every country, not just ours, you'll see the blatant hypocrisy and entitled option that they have of themselves. What happened this week in London is nothing more than the chickens coming home to roost.

His involvement and courage down the years means that it is now inevitable that I will see a united Ireland in my lifetime.

Thank you Martin.

Lucy8080 · 25-03-2017 6:20am

Hamlet. wrote: »

His involvement and courage down the years means that it is now inevitable that I will see a united Ireland in my lifetime.

Thank you Martin.

There will be no united anything whilst that sort of one sided prophecy exists ( it smacks of " we will win"). We will all lose together until that rethoric is buried by both sides.

Our friends in the North/Norn Iron should have the support and efforts of all guarantors of the peace process, without coercion ,to go this way or that way,together . Without fear of going this way or that way,together.

Who knows what they will decide on together ,if /when they come together.

IF I was them I'd take the best world on offer ( on any given date in their future) ,with options to switch between worlds if they wish. They have suffered enough..and all the space and options, that all guarantors can afford them, should be theirs to navigate together, for their agreed interests.

LordSutch · 25-03-2017 6:38am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is a programme on BbC 4 right now which illustrates what we are discussing.
There is a famous soldier ( I don't remember his name) who got horribly burned when the Galahad ship was sunk in the Malvina's.

Simon Weston CBE of the Welsh Guards is the man you speak of. He suffered 46% burns when the Sir Galahad was struck by an Argentine missile @ Bluff Cove in the Falkland Islands.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 25-03-2017 7:08am

The Argies were completely in the wrong of course. The history of the Falklands is very complex but there's one thing which has been known for the past 50 years. The natives are members of a British Overseas Territory and they want to be that way. The last referendum on the islands was something like 99% in favour of remaining with the brits.

If the Argiies had just fcuked off at the time many lives wouldn't have been lost.

You challenge the British at your peril, they're the Bulldogs and they won't let go! They'll defeat you first and then will fcuk you in the ass. Just to make sure that you will never look sideways at them again

Dresden.

The Belgrano.

LordSutch · 25-03-2017 7:15am

I agree with the 1st two paragraphs of post 960.

NIMAN · 25-03-2017 7:40am

Hamlet. wrote: »

RIP one of the few great Irishmen who were left.

Sadly this island consists of nothing but an American ideology and a British culture.

Some of the comments from major media outlets about him this weeks have been nothing short of shameful, vile propaganda and brainwashing of the highest order. The world terrorists throughout history have been the British, let's not mention their involvement in these islands, India or Iran though.

They chastise a man for joining the IRA in retaliation for unprovoked attacks from their government. Yet the outrage over the car crash in London this week sums it all up. Countless acts of oppression, greed and ravaging nations yet in their minds they will always be blameless and somehow victims. When you understand the disgusting behaviour of the British down the centuries in every country, not just ours, you'll see the blatant hypocrisy and entitled option that they have of themselves. What happened this week in London is nothing more than the chickens coming home to roost.

His involvement and courage down the years means that it is now inevitable that I will see a united Ireland in my lifetime.

Thank you Martin.

Agree with a lot of this, but the guy who did the damage in London this week was born and bred in England.

tomwaterford · 25-03-2017 7:44am

You challenge the British at your peril, they're the Bulldogs and they won't let go! They'll defeat you first and then will fcuk you in the ass. Just to make sure that you will never look sideways at them again

Dresden.

The Belgrano.[/quote]

And yet despite 30 years of war...they couldn't defeat the provos

Paleblood · 25-03-2017 7:49am

NIMAN wrote: »

Agree with a lot of this, but the guy who did the damage in London this week was born and bred in England.

I think the point being made is that those events are taking place because of Britian's involvement in the Middle East.

Noddyholder · 25-03-2017 7:52am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The Argies were completely in the wrong of course. The history of the Falklands is very complex but there's one thing which has been known for the past 50 years. The natives are members of a British Overseas Territory and they want to be that way. The last referendum on the islands was something like 99% in favour of remaining with the brits.

If the Argiies had just fcuked off at the time many lives wouldn't have been lost.

You challenge the British at your peril, they're the Bulldogs and they won't let go! They'll defeat you first and then will fcuk you in the ass. Just to make sure that you will never look sideways at them again

Dresden.

The Belgrano.

They weren't very Bulldogish when China took back Hong Kong , Even though the majority of its people wanted to stay with Britain ,Where was your Navy then ?

Rather than face the humiliation of a forcible Chinese takeover During talks with Thatcher, China planned to invade and seize Hong Kong if the negotiations set off unrest in the colony.

Thatcher later said that Deng told her bluntly that China could easily take Hong Kong by force, stating that "I could walk in and take the whole lot this afternoon", to which she replied that "there is nothing I could do to stop you, but the eyes of the world would now know what China is like".[12]

And with bretix coming up I would be thinking Gibraltar might be getting let go to as Spain is constantly pushing the boundaries there .

dinorebel · 25-03-2017 9:24am

Noddyholder wrote: »

They weren't very Bulldogish when China took back Hong Kong , Even though the majority of its people wanted to stay with Britain ,Where was your Navy then ?

Rather than face the humiliation of a forcible Chinese takeover During talks with Thatcher, China planned to invade and seize Hong Kong if the negotiations set off unrest in the colony.

Thatcher later said that Deng told her bluntly that China could easily take Hong Kong by force, stating that "I could walk in and take the whole lot this afternoon", to which she replied that "there is nothing I could do to stop you, but the eyes of the world would now know what China is like".[12]

And with bretix coming up I would be thinking Gibraltar might be getting let go to as Spain is constantly pushing the boundaries there .

The difference being Kong Kong was a leased colony China had legal title to it.

Paleblood · 25-03-2017 9:27am

King Kong would have destroyed the Brits.

Noddyholder · 25-03-2017 9:31am

dinorebel wrote: »

The difference being Kong Kong was a leased colony China had legal title to it.

As if that was going to make a bit of difference at all to the Chinese, The brits were told they are taking it back & were told in no uncertain terms we can do it the easy way or we can do it an easier way. They had no choice.

Like its not British or other Government's have never broken an agreement ?

And what about the majority of people who lived there & there opinion's ?

Its a cop out & there's is nothing like a bully being bullied.

Stars and Stripes · 25-03-2017 10:53am

seachto7 wrote: »

Just as well 2 off duty British soldiers didn't take a wrong turn and drive into that funeral cortege.

Ahh, it wasn't exactly like they could have been out sight seeing or something and just happened to take a wrong turn ? Just days after a loyalist attacks and murders several people at a funeral a car runs speeding through the crowd of mourners luckily not killing any of them, when blocked in the two plain clothes Brits pull out guns firing shots. The people bravely disarm the undercover supposedly supermen and unsurprisingly given the circumstances they end up dead. I suppose if they had killed a few mourners and drove away it would be turned into yet another SAS daring-do story of their bravery under pressure and tenacious escape with a military cross and promotion for their British pluck. They were little more than alleged victims for the British army to whinge about the injustice of when they are on the receiving end as their famous for, from Warrenpoint to Dunkirk to been turkeys trying to run down the German machine guns at the Somme - tally hoo old chaps !!!!

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 11:05am

greenflash wrote: »

Nonsense

Whatever. Look at a map sometime you get a chance, it has two names on most of them, same as Derry. https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Argentina/@-50.4429602,-61.3861419,6.92z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x95bccaf5f5fdc667:0x3d2f77992af00fa8!8m2!3d-38.416097!4d-63.616672

Take your pick.

Stars and Stripes · 25-03-2017 11:16am

I can't remember Fitzgerald, Reynolds, Haughey or Lynch etc having anything near as large a funeral. AND with an ex US President flying in for it. Oh dear the FG/FF boys will be severely miffed

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 11:17am

LordSutch wrote: »

Simon Weston CBE of the Welsh Guards is the man you speak of. He suffered 46% burns when the Sir Galahad was struck by an Argentine missile @ Bluff Cove in the Falkland Islands.

That's the guy, awful injuries but it is striking that not once was it mentioned, that given the chance, he and his ship would have done the exact same (and did) to Argentinian crewmen on Maggie's valiant South Sea publicity jaunt.

100 years on from our own rebellion we were very careful to remember the deaths and injuries on both sides as that link I posted does about the conflict/war in the north. Something that Tim might want to consider.

Peregrine · 25-03-2017 12:27pm

timthumbni banned for a week and banned from the thread. Everyone else, cut out the off-topic posts.

Mod

Fratton Fred · 25-03-2017 1:05pm

Stars and Stripes wrote: »

I can't remember Fitzgerald, Reynolds, Haughey or Lynch etc having anything near as large a funeral. AND with an ex US President flying in for it. Oh dear the FG/FF boys will be severely miffed

its a shame he wasn't just allowed to step down gracefully from Stormont and his retirement due to ill health had to be turned in to a political circus.

It just shows what a despicable party Sinn Feinn really are.

Jayop · 25-03-2017 1:35pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

its a shame he wasn't just allowed to step down gracefully from Stormont and his retirement due to ill health had to be turned in to a political circus.

It just shows what a despicable party Sinn Feinn really are.

Haha yeah that's the party line now is it? Free staters are funny in the way that they choose to deflect, I'll give them that.

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 1:39pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

its a shame he wasn't just allowed to step down gracefully from Stormont and his retirement due to ill health had to be turned in to a political circus.

It just shows what a despicable party Sinn Feinn really are.

He stepped down 'honourably' in the face of arrogance and a refusal to be accountable.

Ignore the repeated cases of DUP arrogance all you want.

Fratton Fred · 25-03-2017 2:25pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He stepped down 'honourably' in the face of arrogance and a refusal to be accountable.

Ignore the repeated cases of DUP arrogance all you want.

yeah, right. There's nothing as gullible as a shinner.

He was obviously very very ill and had to step down, but as usual, Sinn Fein turned it into a political stunt.

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-03-2017 2:33pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yeah, right. There's nothing as gullible as a shinner.

He was obviously very very ill and had to step down, but as usual, Sinn Fein turned it into a political stunt.

If McGuinness was well, you clearly think it was wrong for him to resign?

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 2:38pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yeah, right. There's nothing as gullible as a shinner.

He was obviously very very ill and had to step down, but as usual, Sinn Fein turned it into a political stunt.

They could have transitioned quite easily to a new leader. But they chose to keep the DUP honest.
Funny Fred would be ranting elsewhere if any other party decided to tolerate it. The DUP were not even prepared to stand an involved minister down for a short period.

And the seriousness of McGuinness's illness was well known behind the scenes but that didn't stop the morally upstanding DUP and their 'non' supporters on here exploiting it.

My name is URL · 25-03-2017 2:42pm

PUP press officer forced to resign after expressing condolences towards McGuinness's family

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/03/24/news/pup-women-resigns-after-criticism-of-her-mcguinness-comments-976115/?ref=yfp

Tweet in question

https://twitter.com/SophieLong01/status/844073069585072133?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishnews.com%2Fnews%2F2017%2F03%2F24%2Fnews%2Fpup-women-resigns-after-criticism-of-her-mcguinness-comments-976115%2F%3Fref%3Dyfp

It caused a backlash from loyalists and members of the party who accused the outspoken feminist of being a 'Lundy,' demanding she leave the party and accusing her of being a 'Marxist'.

One Twitter user appeared to threaten the Ballybeen-born loyalist posting, "RIP Sophie long (sic) the traitor".

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 2:48pm

My name is URL wrote: »

PUP press officer forced to resign after expressing condolences towards McGuinness's family

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/03/24/news/pup-women-resigns-after-criticism-of-her-mcguinness-comments-976115/?ref=yfp

Tweet in question

https://twitter.com/SophieLong01/status/844073069585072133?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishnews.com%2Fnews%2F2017%2F03%2F24%2Fnews%2Fpup-women-resigns-after-criticism-of-her-mcguinness-comments-976115%2F%3Fref%3Dyfp

Seen that yesterday. Sad. One huge step forward, one bigoted step back.

Fratton Fred · 25-03-2017 2:54pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

If McGuinness was well, you clearly think it was wrong for him to resign?

if McGuinness was well, do you think he would have?

Fratton Fred · 25-03-2017 2:57pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They could have transitioned quite easily to a new leader. But they chose to keep the DUP honest.
Funny Fred would be ranting elsewhere if any other party decided to tolerate it. The DUP were not even prepared to stand an involved minister down for a short period.

chose to keep the DUP honest?

And this is the party that puts it support firmly behind Thomas Murphy, the "Good Republican"?

Sinn Fein and honesty don't usually go together.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the seriousness of McGuinness's illness was well known behind the scenes but that didn't stop the morally upstanding DUP and their 'non' supporters on here exploiting it.

who gives a **** about the DUP? we all know what they are like, they aren't suddenly going to change.

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-03-2017 3:02pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

if McGuinness was well, do you think he would have?

Yes

Now, you think it was wrong for him to resign if he was well?

Fratton Fred · 25-03-2017 3:24pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yes

Now, you think it was wrong for him to resign if he was well?

There was no need for him to. Arlene should have. He should have stayed and demanded a full enquiry and the intervention of the NI secretary.

R P McMurphy · 25-03-2017 3:35pm

Clearly some people annoyed with the positive coverage that Martin received on his death

FTA69 · 25-03-2017 3:48pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

if McGuinness was well, do you think he would have?

Definitely. Sinn Fein knew an election at the time of Arlene being exposed for gross corruption/incompetence would have led to a great result for them and bolstered their project whilst causing divisions in Unionism.

McGuinness' health had nothing to do with them pulling the plug on Stormont, the only person to blame for that was Foster and the DUP who were being their usual dopey selves.

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 3:55pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

chose to keep the DUP honest?

And this is the party that puts it support firmly behind Thomas Murphy, the "Good Republican"?

Sinn Fein and honesty don't usually go together.

SF is supporting Slab Murphy???
Where is that link, would love to see that.
Far as I seen, Adams said he 'was a good republican' and he was pivotal to the peace process' and that everyone should pay their taxes, including Murphy I presume.
And now we will probably get Fred pretending that SF's and many other agencies interested in human rights was invented just because Murphy came before it on tax offences.
Which would be wholly wrong too.

who gives a **** about the DUP? we all know what they are like, they aren't suddenly going to change.

Well yours and Tim's stances constantly remind me of a Portadown DUPer I know.
You might as well support them, you are fully aligned judging by your posting.

Jayop · 25-03-2017 5:19pm

My name is URL wrote: »

PUP press officer forced to resign after expressing condolences towards McGuinness's family

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/03/24/news/pup-women-resigns-after-criticism-of-her-mcguinness-comments-976115/?ref=yfp

Tweet in question

https://twitter.com/SophieLong01/status/844073069585072133?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishnews.com%2Fnews%2F2017%2F03%2F24%2Fnews%2Fpup-women-resigns-after-criticism-of-her-mcguinness-comments-976115%2F%3Fref%3Dyfp

An articulate well spoken young woman scares lots of people. I've read some of her past tweets since this and she was certainly that.

Sad that she's been forced out.

Fratton Fred · 25-03-2017 5:29pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Definitely. Sinn Fein knew an election at the time of Arlene being exposed for gross corruption/incompetence would have led to a great result for them and bolstered their project whilst causing divisions in Unionism.

McGuinness' health had nothing to do with them pulling the plug on Stormont, the only person to blame for that was Foster and the DUP who were being their usual dopey selves.

Of course it did, do you really believe the timing was all a coincidence?

Let's face it, he looked really ill when he left Stormont, he should have stepped aside three months ago, but Sinn Fein pushed the scandal as far as possible so they could get maximum mileage out if his retirement.

FTA69 · 25-03-2017 5:48pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Of course it did, do you really believe the timing was all a coincidence?

Let's face it, he looked really ill when he left Stormont, he should have stepped aside three months ago, but Sinn Fein pushed the scandal as far as possible so they could get maximum mileage out if his retirement.

It had nothing to do with his illness mate, they've already replaced him with O'Neill and she seems to be flying it. It doesn't make any odds to them who is who in Stormont in the long run, people vote along sectarian lines and they'd vote for a donkey in a suit if it had the SF brand.

Again, what caused that crisis in the first place was Foster and the DUP being outed over the RHI scandal and their total and utter refusal to brook any responsibility, Foster then told everyone to p*ss off and the DUP dug in presenting SF an option to capitalise. McGuinness being sick had nothing to do with those facts and you blaming SF for being Despicable Me or whatever is way off the mark.

eire4 · 25-03-2017 6:12pm

Nice service I thought for Martin McGuinness, very moving. Still can't quite believe how quickly his illness became terminal.

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 6:12pm

Whatever it was, it was a masterstroke. The DUP politically snookered and it's leader attending the funeral of a former IRA commander some cynics would say because world opinion forced her too.
The world is also watching the footdraggers of the PUP issuing death threats to anyone who offers decent sympathy to a bereaved family and party.
I wonder does Fred think Long resigned for political gain too?

OldMrBrennan83 · 25-03-2017 7:15pm

This post has been deleted.

uck51js9zml2yt · 25-03-2017 7:19pm

Noddyholder wrote: »

They weren't very Bulldogish when China took back Hong Kong , Even though the majority of its people wanted to stay with Britain ,Where was your Navy then ?

Rather than face the humiliation of a forcible Chinese takeover During talks with Thatcher, China planned to invade and seize Hong Kong if the negotiations set off unrest in the colony.

Thatcher later said that Deng told her bluntly that China could easily take Hong Kong by force, stating that "I could walk in and take the whole lot this afternoon", to which she replied that "there is nothing I could do to stop you, but the eyes of the world would now know what China is like".[12]

And with bretix coming up I would be thinking Gibraltar might be getting let go to as Spain is constantly pushing the boundaries there .

I was living in HK at the time. They had a lease on kowloon and hk was unsustainable on its own.

tomwaterford · 25-03-2017 7:23pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Of course it did, do you really believe the timing was all a coincidence?

Let's face it, he looked really ill when he left Stormont, he should have stepped aside three months ago, but Sinn Fein pushed the scandal as far as possible so they could get maximum mileage out if his retirement.

Or you could read it as it was....they got sick of time and again playing into the dup hand of obstruction and arrogence

No irish language act.....despite signing up for it....running completely againest the spirit of the GFA and laughing into the face of nationlists calling their bluff...more or less treating them with the same contempt as what caused the troubles to begin with

The life expectancy of what mcguiNess had was 2-3 years....theres every reason for him to expect to have had an advisory role in discussions.....but dont let these facts cloud your judgement and ruin a throlling session/taunting all over the tread òf a dead person

Esel · 25-03-2017 7:44pm

The clock goes forward by one hour tonight. Pity it can't go forward 100 years...

LordSutch · 25-03-2017 7:47pm

Or back to when the Troubles started, so that they didn't escallate . . . .

tomwaterford · 25-03-2017 7:52pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Or back to when the Troubles started, so that they didn't escallate . . . .

Given the behaviour and absolute contempt shown by the dup to nationlists and other minorities. .....it's very easy to see how without the protection of the GFA and other European legislation (which the dup wants to withdraw from) how the situation which unfolded between 1922 and 1969 came about

If you camnot conceive oppression is the next step after obstruction becomes the norm....what is point of explaining it to you

(This is something which gives me great concern with American politics )

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2017 7:56pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Or back to when the Troubles started, so that they didn't escallate . . . .

To the sectarian statelet? No thanks. That's the problem in a nutshell though, too many still want those days back, but it ain't gonna happen, bless their little cotton union jack socks.

LordSutch · 25-03-2017 7:57pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

If you camnot conceive oppression is the next step after obstruction becomes the norm....what is point of explaining it to you

Is it not a nice idea to travel back in time to try & stop the Troubles & save all those lives?

John Hume & Seamus Mallon had the right approach back then IMO.

(Non violent protest) Ergo no killing, no bombs, no destruction, no bloodshed.

But that's just my opinion.

RIP Martin McGuinness

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