RIP Martin McGuinness

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

I don't think being against terrorist violence is the wrong side of history to be honest.

But terrorism from the RUC/UDR/BA and thier proxies which actually, you know, caused the troubles is fine? Gowanawayoutathat.

Anyway, luckily for you you don't even live in NI anymore.

Why is it lucky? The Troubles are long over.

timthumbni

timthumbni wrote: »

Yes, did you read the comments of Julie Hambleton or Norman Tebbitt????

All valid points of view of course? Not just the one you liked.

Pretty obvious you don't like the ones that involve reconciliation and showing the way forward Tim.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty obvious you don't like the ones that involve reconciliation and showing the way forward Tim.

Fascinating that. The Never Never culture alive and well in Tim land. Doing his level best to name check every single death caused by one side makes me think that good Tim is in a battle with dark Tim.

timthumbni

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

But terrorism from the RUC/UDR/BA and thier proxies which actually, you know, caused the troubles is fine? Gowanawayoutathat.



Why is it lucky? The Troubles are long over.

Lucky? Because you don't have to live near these paleo unionists or whatever you were on about.

The Ira were responsible for nearly 1/2 of all the entire killings during the modern day troubles in NI. Many more than the RUC/UDR and BA numbers combined. In fact didnt the Ira kill more Catholics in NI than the RUC/BA combined too??

...And Justice

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty obvious you don't like the ones that involve reconciliation and showing the way forward Tim.

It's like a merry go round, violence in politics is a worldwide phenomenon, it's not unlike to Ireland, as Martin said himself, he read a few thesis from British Military commanders and the British security forces came to the conclusion that the IRA could not be defeated, Martin spread this around the ranks of the IRA and proposed the political route... This is fact.

It's been documented as fact, and the fact that 2 months before Thatcher left office, she sent one of her advisors to meet Martin to tell him the British wouldn't surrender... Well that meant the lines were open in republican minds to go the political route, if it wasn't the different attitude of Tony Blair when he met with Gerry and Martin in the blacked out room with no windows just after he was elected and the Thatcher line of dealing with the IRA was disbanded, we would be still at war today.

Only Tony Blair shook hands with Gerry and Martin, the rest of them didn't. Alas Bertie, Bill and George John Mitchell Jr joined in to end the war.

Again simpletons in simple Ireland can't grasp how people went to war over human rights issues.

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

He and his buddy were instrumental in supporting the IRA murder of children, women and men in NI, the republic and mainland uk and further afield.

And I'm sure the IRA blowing up of 2 wee boys outside a mcdonalds in a northern English town in the 90s really helped dismantle the state. The IRAs one and only goal was Brits out and a UI. Both of which they failed at by blowing kids up and shooting a young recently new mother in the head because they were census workers and Protestant.(j matters) (Wasn't that in mcguinness patch btw?) I wonder if he had any information about that one?????

I thought the funeral was brilliant. Respect was paid to either side and Arlene got a round of applause. What most people took away from this is that most people want reconciliation. We've seen an image there showing the reality of the troubles. Every side was affected. A lot of innocent people have valid reasons to hate the IRA, the British army and loyalists.

There was a conflict. There is no innocent parties in the troubles. The only divisions that will emerge are the divisions between those who want to move on and those who want to keep the hate going. Thankfully voices like yours are becoming fewer and fewer.

timthumbni

timthumbni wrote: »

Lucky? Because you don't have to live near these paleo unionists or whatever you were on about.

The Ira were responsible for nearly 1/2 of all the entire killings during the modern day troubles in NI. Many more than the RUC/UDR and BA numbers combined. In fact didnt the Ira kill more Catholics in NI than the RUC/BA combined too??

I think JT was referring to you in particular Tim because Arlene Foster did actually shake hands with Michelle O Neill yesterday.........

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

Lucky? Because you don't have to live near these paleo unionists or whatever you were on about.

The Ira were responsible for nearly 1/2 of all the entire killings during the modern day troubles in NI. Many more than the RUC/UDR and BA numbers combined. In fact didnt the Ira kill more Catholics in NI than the RUC/BA combined too??

As we have seen every element in the troubles killed innocent people.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

I thought the funeral was brilliant. Respect was paid to either side and Arlene got a round of applause. What most people took away from this is that most people want reconciliation. We've seen an image there showing the reality of the troubles. Every side was affected. A lot of innocent people have valid reasons to hate the IRA, the British army and loyalists.

There was a conflict. There is no innocent parties in the troubles. The only divisions that will emerge are the divisions between those who want to move on and those who want to keep the hate going. Thankfully voices like yours are becoming fewer and fewer.

Since the dawn of time men have gone to war/or into conflict/ or rebelled to serve a greater good and have perpetrated some horrific things in the process.

Those men and women are duty bound to know when the time to end it has come. McGuinness is an example of such a person. The world accepted that yesterday, that's how big it was. Most of the world that is and I suspect Tim does too.

Wheeliebin30

Look can we not just accept each side carried out killings that were unacceptable.

Loss of innocent life can never be justified.

Both sides have innocent blood on their hands.

Their are no heroes in all of this.

...And Justice

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Look can we not just accept each side carried out killings that were unacceptable.

Loss of innocent life can never justified.

Both sides have innocent blood on their hands.

Their is no heroes in all of this.

Yes there are hero's, if Martin hadn't dragged the IRA kicking and screaming, we would still be at war. If Paisley hadn't come to his senses, we would still be at war.

Hero's die, others take on the legacy.

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

Lucky? Because you don't have to live near these paleo unionists or whatever you were on about.

Ah sure they're little but blowhards these days - harmless hot air.

Many more than the RUC/UDR and BA numbers combined.

You can't talk about the RUC/UDR unless you're including the UDA/UVF/UFF who they colluded with.

The 'security' services and thier proxies murdered twice as many innocent people between them as the PIRA did. Have an oul read off this Tim to get a more nuanced understanding of who was killing who.

Jayop

The heroes for me are those who eventually strove for peace in an equal society. People like Hume, Mo Mowlam (oft forgotten but a hero to many) Trimble, Adams, McGuinness, eventually even Paisley. The last few are heroes in the risks they took to reach out from even more divided lines to put the hand of partnership with sworn enemies for the good of the future generations.

I'd even throw old Bertie in there for what he done the day of his mother's funeral. That was a heroic action imo.

Maybe that single thing, someone pushing for peace amidst personal pain, putting themselves out to help others was the key that unlocked the box. And maybe some of the actions of yesterday can replicate this and make people push harder to get the show on the road again.

...And Justice

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Ah sure they're little but blowhards these days - harmless hot air.



You can't talk about the RUC/UDR unless you're including the UDA/UVF/UFF who they colluded with.

The 'security' services and thier proxies murdered twice as many innocent people between them as the PIRA did.

The UDA/RUC/UVF/UDR were so dis-organised during the troubles, Michael Stone's handlers sent him into Miltown for the royal rebellion shot for the cameras to keep the war effort and antagonize the republicans, I mean military helicopters flying over the cemetery when this was happening?

He's admitted on camera that he was sent files from the RUC of who to kill. But they ended up killing more of their own as a result, some army structure that is.

Junkyard Tom

Jayop wrote: »

Paisley.

Paisley was cornered and had no other choice.

In fact I'd go as far as to say he was one of the principal instigators of the conflict and did his utmost to destroy every detente that was attempted.

Albert Reynolds is one of the unsung heros of the peace process.

timthumbni

steddyeddy wrote: »

I thought the funeral was brilliant. Respect was paid to either side and Arlene got a round of applause. What most people took away from this is that most people want reconciliation. We've seen an image there showing the reality of the troubles. Every side was affected. A lot of innocent people have valid reasons to hate the IRA, the British army and loyalists.

There was a conflict. There is no innocent parties in the troubles. The only divisions that will emerge are the divisions between those who want to move on and those who want to keep the hate going. Thankfully voices like yours are becoming fewer and fewer.

Its quite funny that someone who doesn't cheerlead the IRA, the grouping by far that was responsible for the biggest percentage of killing during the modern troubles is somehow keeping the hate going by not embracing them. As I said I won't be thanking anyone for stopping shooting and bombing people. The vast majority of people did not do these things no matter how provoked on whatever side.

And I have voted for nearly every party in NI, aside from SF or the loyalist political parties.

I also support integrated education in NI so perhaps it's time to get off your scientist style high horse. I know you said you have to dumb things down a bit for the general public but thought your post re this was a bit condescending nonetheless.

timthumbni

...And Justice wrote: »

The UDA/RUC/UVF/UDR were so dis-organised during the troubles, Michael Stone's handlers sent him into Miltown for the royal rebellion shot for the cameras to keep the war effort and antagonize the republicans, I mean military helicopters flying over the cemetery when this was happening?

He's admitted on camera that he was sent files from the RUC of who to kill. But they ended up killing more of their own as a result, some army structure that is.

Like the chopper over the 2 soldiers beaten and shot to death by peace loving republicans at the funeral. Do you have the same thoughts on that?

...And Justice

timthumbni wrote: »

I also support integrated education in NI so perhaps it's time to get off your scientist style high horse. I know you said you have to dumb things down a bit for the general public but though your post re this was a bit condescending nonetheless.

When Martin McGuinness became education minister he gave more money to the schools of loyalists in NI, do you know why? because he didn't want them to have a poxy education like the Catholics did, and he got lambasted for it, the people he fought against he was now trying to educate to the perils of sectarianism. He didn't want the next generation to suffer the same fate as he did and his family.

timthumbni

...And Justice wrote: »

When Martin McGuinness became education minister he gave more money to the schools of loyalists in NI, do you know why? because he didn't want them to have a poxy education like the Catholics did, and he got lambasted for it, the people he fought against he was now trying to educate to the perils of sectarianism. He didn't want the next generation to suffer the same fate as he did and his family.

Which " loyalist" schools did he give money to out of interest? Are you from NI?

...And Justice

timthumbni wrote: »

Like the chopper over the 2 soldiers beaten and shot to death by peace loving republicans at the funeral. Do you have the same thoughts on that?

Yes, It was despicable, but it was a paranoid time in the north. After Stone set off grenades in Milltown, people in the republican community nearly killed a few Catholics they didn't recognize in the heat of the moment.

There was a fair amount of nit picking to stoke fires on both sides.

...And Justice

timthumbni wrote: »

Which " loyalist" schools did he give money to out of interest? Are you from NI?

All there in black and white, google it, Bill Clinton even remarked on it. I have family in south Armagh.

FrancieBrady

I will post this again in the hope Tim takes on board what it means about his miseducation.

Jayop

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Paisley was cornered and had no other choice.

In fact I'd go as far as to say he was one of the principal instigators of the conflict and did his utmost to destroy every detente that was attempted.

Albert Reynolds is one of the unsung heros of the peace process.

Aye Paisley was an absolute hate filled bigot and but if you're going to recognize the efforts that some made then you have to also see what he did amidst massive opposition from within that branch of unionism.

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

Like the chopper over the 2 soldiers beaten and shot to death by peace loving republicans at the funeral. Do you have the same thoughts on that?

Tim, I could list an awful lot of individual killings, including children being shot in the back, by the BA and others but I try not to because it's corpse-waving. If I searched your posts for 'two wee boys' how many times would it turn up?

Stop using the deaths of victims that you feel will have the greatest emotional impact - it's not nice.

Wheeliebin30

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I will post this again in the hope Tim takes on board what it means about his miseducation.

Is that only over 4 years?

FrancieBrady

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Is that only over 4 years?

Yes. I have to say, it surprised me too. Read the article I posted with it back a few pages.

timthumbni

...And Justice wrote: »

All there in black and white, google it, Bill Clinton even remarked on it. I have family in south Armagh.

I have family in Canada but I know sweet fanny Adams about Canadian politics or education. So perhaps we have something in common after all judging by your posts.

Let me tell you a secret. There are no "loyalist" schools in NI. Is this a wind up???

In fact there are no "Protestant" schools. There are catholic schools, state schools (that are mostly Protestant in background) and integrated schools.

Let me know if you want to know any other basic info regarding NI. You will forgive me if I don't take your posts with much seriousness from now on though.

...And Justice

timthumbni wrote: »

I have family in Canada but I know sweet fanny Adams about Canadian politics or education. So perhaps we have something in common after all judging by your posts.

Let me tell you a secret. There are no "loyalist" schools in NI. Is this a wind up???

In fact there are no "Protestant" schools. There are catholic schools, state schools (that are mostly Protestant in background) and integrated schools.

Let me know if you want to know any other basic info regarding NI. You will forgive me if I don't take your posts with much seriousness from now on though.

Are you winding me up? seriously?

Junkyard Tom

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Is that only over 4 years?

Read the below piece for a better understanding of the figures and how the truth is distorted by the media:

https://medium.com/@hiredknave/facts-an-obituary-f1c0d76f1cb3#.b7sfix6rn

timthumbni

...And Justice wrote: »

Are you winding me up? seriously?

Are you aware of what loyalist normally refers to???