Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

MrMusician18

bear1 wrote: »

Who are the silent majority?

Presumably the majority of the population that have remained silent. I think we sometimes forget that less than 1% of Irish adults are regularly active on twitter, and only a fraction of that again active on places like boards. The majority have indeed stayed silent on this.

If red c is to be believed however there is no majority for extending restrictions, in fact the population is almost split down the middle last time it was asked. The fact that there isn't a majority though should be irrelevant to government policy, as it's governments job to lead not follow. You'd find it hard to get majorities for spending cuts or tax increases but that doesn't mean they are sometimes necessary and prudent.

One needs to be careful about opinions attributed to "silent majorities"

Sobit1964

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Presumably the majority of the population that have remained silent. I think we sometimes forget that less than 1% of Irish adults are regularly active on twitter, and only a fraction of that again active on places like boards. The majority have indeed stayed silent on this.

If red c is to be believed however there is no majority for extending restrictions, in fact the population is almost split down the middle last time it was asked. The fact that there isn't a majority though should be irrelevant to government policy, as it's governments job to lead not follow. You'd find it hard to get majorities for spending cuts or tax increases but that doesn't mean they are sometimes necessary and prudent.

One needs to be careful about opinions attributed to "silent majorities"

I'm one of the 99% who isn't active on twitter and I think your 'point' is tosh, please debate further.

Does any one at all find it weird that our 'leaders' issue their views, edicts, and commands via a crappy platform that limits the number of characters you use, and is distinctly anti Irish?

niamh247

What's current best guess for USA travel opening time-frame? I guess they might revise the country list, in July?

JRant

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Indeed, couldn't you too leave matters of national policy to the government too JRant?

Newsflash MrM, I'm not part of a group giving pessimistic projections to government and neither do I have regular briefings with them on matters of national health.

normanoffside

Delta is real says MM
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1410990480096104457
This comes to mind
https://twitter.com/SeanOSeIreland/status/1376991740545150983

Klonker

After listening to a few NPHET members on radio today, you'd have to wonder were they ever planning to open indoor dining before September. Remember months ago and we kept hearing about an outdoor summer and just the way they were talking today made it sound like it was never on the cards for us.

Just the way with the antigen testing, if they were going to open indoors on the 5th July like they say they were if Delta never came along, wouldn't antigen testing be safer than no testing? Since when has NPHET ever taken the riskier version?

They really did a number on the government with this. I'd almost feel sorry for them if it wasn't their own fault for having no backbone and brought in antigen testing sooner rather than going on radio saying government policy is to embrace antigen testing and then do nothing about.

MrMusician18

JRant wrote: »

Newsflash MrM, I'm not part of a group giving pessimistic projections to government and neither do I have regular briefings with them on matters of national health.

So maybe you could leave it to the experts then instead of claiming to know better?

Aph2016

https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1410948669772341248?s=19

Who's our money on?

Aph2016

Aph2016 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1410948669772341248?s=19

Who's our money on?

All fart and no poo judging by his replies to comments.

MrMusician18

Aph2016 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1410948669772341248?s=19

Who's our money on?

Until he posts it, it's Ewan looking for attention. Quelle surprise there.

Another conspiracy theory bites the dust.

https://twitter.com/NewGranada1979/status/1409185402280316929

JRant

MrMusician18 wrote: »

So maybe you could leave it to the experts then instead of claiming to know better?

What does De Gascun know about international travel and how is he an expert in it?

I also love the logical fallacy of appealing to authority, like that's any sort of argument at all. "Oh but he's an expert", am expert in what exactly? Here's a hint it ends in 'ing' and starts with 'test'.

bucketybuck

MrMusician18 wrote: »

So maybe you could leave it to the experts then instead of claiming to know better?

I am curious about these experts.

Three CMO's, Scotland, England and Ireland. All experts apparently.

Yet when it comes to Covid and the delta variant, one of those three experts is offering very different advice to the other two.

You seem to know a lot about experts, can you explain why this is? If they are experts, how can any of them be wrong?

JRant

normanoffside wrote: »

Delta is real says MM
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1410990480096104457
This comes to mind
https://twitter.com/SeanOSeIreland/status/1376991740545150983

Why is he mentioning that the Delta is real? It looks like another made up argument MM is having in his own head again.

It would also seem he has no intention of opening indoor this month and quickly tried to backtrack on what he said by mentioning "maybe even sooner" after saying it wouldn't be for a number of weeks.

Alas, never fear, he has spoken to the world's foremost authority on the Delta variant, none other than Nicola Sturgeon. We can all rest assured that MM has the best minds engaged on this matter and should drop any hint of questioning the "very clear" numbers from 'D'Modelling'.

Hurrache

Aph2016 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1410948669772341248?s=19

Who's our money on?

Easy money being that McKenna continues to be the big prick and attention seeker he's always been.

Del Griffith

Aph2016 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1410948669772341248?s=19

Who's our money on?

Appears to be a prominent NPHET members kid or family member, rather than the NPHET person themselves, hence the reluctance to post it.

Zebra3

gozunda wrote: »

Here you go ...

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/threat-assessment-emergence-and-impact-sars-cov-2-delta-variant

Not much there.

Some people will continue to die. We’ve all accepted that. Most sane people anyway.

No mention of the cost involved in shutting down businesses and the loss to the economy. No mention of mental health issues. No mention of problems with delays to other parts of the health service. See this week’s issue with blood needing to be imported from Britain as a very basic example.

No mention of the possible cutbacks that may be imposed on health services as national debt spirals.

It’s purely focused on trying to avoid a small numbers of deaths which now totally pale in to insignificance compared to deaths in other categories.

They also like to use “may” a fair bit.

As we all know the solution to those who deem themselves vulnerable is to continue to look after themselves. Time is up for the suppression of freedom for all of us because a minority are deemed to be vulnerable.

Anyone who is vulnerable will see no change in their lives as they have been protecting themselves from Covid while the rest of us can get on with our lives and we can rebuild society and the economy. Hopefully for the better.

Unless you think the vulnerable should be overly protected at the expense of the rest of us while they take chances with their lives...

So it has been a pretty rough week here undoubtedly with tempers frayed. But just wondering are other countries more positive regarding covid at the moment.

MrMusician18

bucketybuck wrote: »

I am curious about these experts.

Three CMO's, Scotland, England and Ireland. All experts apparently.

Yet when it comes to Covid and the delta variant, one of those three experts is offering very different advice to the other two.

You seem to know a lot about experts, can you explain why this is? If they are experts, how can any of them be wrong?

Different countries, different variables, different health services, different vaccination levels and different risk tolerance.

There are lots of reasons why countries might diverge in there recommendations and all be correct for their own context

bucketybuck

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Different countries, different variables, different health services, different vaccination levels and different risk tolerance.

There are lots of reasons why countries might diverge in there recommendations and all be correct for their own context

So when the CMO of one country gives a vastly different response to the same virus than the CMO's of the two neighbouring countries, its ok, none of them can be wrong because things are different?

Sounds like a no lose situation for the CMO.

Wolf359f

bucketybuck wrote: »

So when the CMO of one country gives a vastly different response to the same virus than the CMO's of the two neighbouring countries, its ok, none of them can be wrong because things are different?

Sounds like a no lose situation for the CMO.

I'd have to personally go with the odds, with the many not the few.
If our CMO is wrong, it's going to be spectacular, if he's right, it's going to be tragic. One tends to follow the pack, if they are right, pump the chest, if they are wrong, at least you're not alone.

charlie14

growleaves wrote: »

You're talking past me that's why. I didn't start a discussion about herd immunity or say anything about it. Go back and read the post I was replying to. A poster wanted to stop the transmission of all illnesses including the common cold, which I said would lead to people getting sick from weakened immune systems. People build up their immunity in general (including to coronaviruses) through exposure to infections that aren't serious.

So I ask you again, do you want people to avoid all illnesses even after the pandemic is over? (That's what's under discussion)

What is under discussion is your assertion that people will build up their natural immunity to corona viruses (which I`m assuming includes Covid-19).
My question, which you keep avoiding, is how many years you estimate this to take until herd immunity is achieved, and the yearly deaths for that period.

bucketybuck

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'd have to personally go with the odds, with the many not the few.
If our CMO is wrong, it's going to be spectacular, if he's right, it's going to be tragic. One tends to follow the pack, if they are right, pump the chest, if they are wrong, at least you're not alone.

He can't be wrong. Doesn't matter what happens next, he will have been right and everybody else will have been wrong.

MOR316

bucketybuck wrote: »

He can't be wrong. Doesn't matter what happens next, he will have been right and everybody else will have been wrong.

Very simple way around it...

Make Tony stand behind the Taoiseach at press conferences and let him speak when a question, that relates to him, can be answered.
That way, he knows who's in charge and it sends a message. The way it should have been from the start!

Unfortunately, the people in Government have no backbone so...

Micky 32

No more lockdowns for fully vaccinated Germans:

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1232590/

gozunda

Zebra3 wrote: »

Not much there.
....

Running off with the goalposts?

Just as a reminder. This was your what you asked

Zebra3 wrote: »

....

It really looks like we need a second opinion when what’s been given here looks so different to so much of the rest of Europe.

As we live in a democracy, members of NPHET would have no objection to this, right?

Its fairly evident that the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control brief for the next few months is broadly in line with here whether we like it or otherwise.

But you're not happy with that answer? OK.

Klonker

Micky 32 wrote: »

No more lockdowns for fully vaccinated Germans:

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1232590/

Think its an attempt to get more vaccine uptake and it'll probably work.

Klonker

gozunda wrote: »

Running off with the goalposts?

Just as a reminder. This was your what you asked



Its fairly evident that the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control brief for the next few months etc is broadly in line with here whether we like it or otherwise.

But you're not happy with that answer? OK.

They said not to have indoor dining open until late July and then only for vaccinated was it? Must have missed that.

Wolf359f

Micky 32 wrote: »

No more lockdowns for fully vaccinated Germans:

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1232590/

Yeah we ruled out domestic vaccine passports....well until MM's last speech.
It's the logic way, you're not restricting people, more so your unrestricting vaccinated people.
But as a society we wouldn't accept it.

gozunda

Micky 32 wrote: »

No more lockdowns for fully vaccinated Germans:

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1232590/

I believe that idea was ditched and was being referred to as apartheid here when the suggestion that only fully vaccinated people would be allowed to dine indoors but those who were unvaccinated couldn't.

I wonder how that idea will go down in Germany for shopping or attending concerts as detailed*(*ie at some future point in time)

Edit. Just to make that very clear ...