Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Klonker

There's no way government are going to have some antigen testing system in place for 19th or even 26th July and very unlikely they'll even have a system for vaccination certs. With the news of the Romanian vaccines and NIAC advice for J&J and AZ I really think government should just open indoor hospitality fully on 26th July. Gives a few more weeks to get more vaccines out and by that stage you might be talking 60% fully vaccinated and 80% partially vaccinated. Hopefully cases don't spiral too much from now until then and that UK hospitalisations figures continue to remain relatively low.

Klonker

gozunda wrote: »

I believe that idea was ditched and was being referred to as apartheid here when the suggestion that only fully vaccinated people would be allowed to dine indoors but those who were unvaccinated couldn't.

I wonder how that idea will go down in Germany for shopping or attending concerts as detailed...

Sounds like their talking about a hypothetical future lockdown by which stage everyone who wants a vaccine would be offered one unlike the one suggested for that you allude too. And by the way the already have a cert system in place, one that includes antigen testing so that nobody is discriminated against, again unlike here what was proposed for here.

But you know these things but just like to misrepresent it to support your (and NPHETs) view

Stormyteacup

Wolf359f wrote: »

Yeah we ruled out domestic vaccine passports....well until MM's last speech.
It's the logic way, you're not restricting people, more so your unrestricting vaccinated people.
But as a society we wouldn't accept it.

Germany’s Covpass will shortly provide link to proof of negative antigen test. So yes fully vaccinated people will not be restricted as before. Unvaccinated people will be restricted in so far as they may, when necessary during a hypothetical future spike, still need to provide evidence of a negative antigen test.

Apples and oranges really - there will be inconvenience being unvaccinated with more restrictions than fully vaccinated persons, however there will be options to obtain same status as fully vaccinated without being vaccinated. Unlike what’s being proposed here, where you are either vaccinated or... tough luck.

Stormyteacup

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Germany’s Covpass will shortly provide link to proof of negative antigen test. So yes fully vaccinated people will not be restricted as before. Unvaccinated people will be restricted in so far as they may, when necessary during a hypothetical future spike, still need to provide evidence of a negative antigen test.

Apples and oranges really - there will be inconvenience being unvaccinated with more restrictions than fully vaccinated persons, however there will be options to obtain same status as fully vaccinated without being vaccinated. Unlike what’s being proposed here, where you are either vaccinated or... tough luck.

When put like that sounds like a roll back to the old days in Ireland re contraception it was disallowed and women could only get it with permission from the parish priest and then probably from England or Northern Ireland. Maybe a different scenario now but just shows how we usually lag behind other European nations.

gozunda

Klonker wrote: »

Sounds like their talking about a hypothetical future lockdown by which stage everyone who wants a vaccine would be offered one unlike the one suggested for that you allude too. And by the way the already have a cert system in place, one that includes antigen testing so that nobody is discriminated against, again unlike here what was proposed for here.

But you know these things but just like to misrepresent it to support your (and NPHETs) view

You may wish to check but I made no reference to this being brought in at present. Sure sounds like they're planning some - what you were calling discrimination for the future. How will that go down is the question.

But sure klonker that's it. Everyone you disagree with (even when there's nothing different to your own summation) is a big old Nphet supporter and everything is a misrepresentation. Yup for sure that's how it goes.

Shelga

Just listened back to the interview with Michael O’Leary on RTÉ, it made me alternate between chuckling at his blunt manner and feeling horrified at how subservient we are to NPHET. It’s hard to disagree with a single word the man had to say!

July 19th must be a pipedream for indoor dining going by the mess over in the UK particularly Scotland.

Hope I'm wrong.

MOR316

MOR316 wrote: »

It's Gavin James...I'll stay in my home

I googled the name to see what he was like and found this RTE article which links to this YT vid:

A watered down, insipid riff on Paul Simon's 'Call me Al' (which is no great shakes in itself). I wouldn't cross the road to listen to it let alone stand in a sheep pen to savour the magic :pac:

normanoffside

6 wrote: »

July 19th must be a pipedream for indoor dining going by the mess over in the UK particularly Scotland.

Hope I'm wrong.

What mess?
England and Scotland have indoor dining opened a long time and are moving to remove the final few restrictions in the coming weeks.

brickster69

6 wrote: »

July 19th must be a pipedream for indoor dining going by the mess over in the UK particularly Scotland.

Hope I'm wrong.

You can expect cases to rise quite a bit in the UK in the near future i think.

https://twitter.com/fairyfairhurst/status/1411052314056658950

is_that_so

brickster69 wrote: »

You can expect cases to rise quite a bit in the UK in the near future i think.

https://twitter.com/fairyfairhurst/status/1411052314056658950

Not questioning this observation but it is one of the problems of this where there is so much data that people can pick and choose what they hang an argument on.

normanoffside

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Germany’s Covpass will shortly provide link to proof of negative antigen test. So yes fully vaccinated people will not be restricted as before. Unvaccinated people will be restricted in so far as they may, when necessary during a hypothetical future spike, still need to provide evidence of a negative antigen test.

Apples and oranges really - there will be inconvenience being unvaccinated with more restrictions than fully vaccinated persons, however there will be options to obtain same status as fully vaccinated without being vaccinated. Unlike what’s being proposed here, where you are either vaccinated or... tough luck.

Germany is clearly wrong on this, we must trust in NPHET.

brickster69

is_that_so wrote: »

Not questioning this observation but it is one of the problems of this where there is so much data that people can pick and choose what they hang an argument on.

There is no argument it is black and white and something that is seriously overlooked IMO.

Ballynally

normanoffside wrote: »

What mess?
England and Scotland have indoor dining opened a long time and are moving to remove the final few restrictions in the coming weeks.

It ALL comes down to perspective and numbers can and will be used to either reject or support any proposition.
You see, it is not the science, the data per se, it is the way it is perceived and the value put upon it.
Good propaganda gives you the idea that a certain way of looking at things is the only reasonable one.
If that is pushed by state agents, including state broadcasters like RTE, who care about the Truth ( capital T) as they claim in the adverts, most people who are scared already will need just a little push to accept it.
Different countries have different perspectives.
Just look at the difference between the BBC (and other EU state broadcasters) and RTE.
Both broadly in line w government perspectives..

_Kaiser_

Leo trying to rein Tony in again it seems...

TÁNAISTE Leo Varadkar has insisted there is “no reason to believe” a fourth lockdown will be imposed on the country despite the looming threat of the Delta variant of the coronavirus.
Mr Varadkar said yesterday that there will be a fourth wave of the pandemic over the coming summer months and admitted that at this point the Government do not know how long it will last or how bad it will be.

However, he insisted the country would “weather through” another spike in new cases by ramping up vaccinations, keeping the current restrictions in place and introducing vaccine passes for indoor dining.

“There is no reason to believe that we will be forced to go into a fourth lockdown because of the variant,” Mr Varadkar told the Irish Independent.

Somehow however, I don't think it'll be up to Leo and Micheal though. NPHET pushing fear and hysteria, and their one-note lockdown "strategy" means that they'll get their way in the end - again!

I've actually started to think that this nonsense could well go on until the 2 lads swap jobs next year, and Leo does what will look good for Leo - which in this case coincides with what most of the public want.. A return to actual normality.

is_that_so

brickster69 wrote: »

There is no argument it is black and white and something that is seriously overlooked IMO.

There is a selection bias at work in a lot of the observations and plenty of obsession with the data alone. It's also a problem in the modelling as they exclude a lot of factors, especially variables to evaluate the human response to measures.

the kelt

Genuine question.

Does anyone still believe we will be opening up indoor dining on the 19th of July to everyone as was planned for the 5th?

niallo27

the kelt wrote: »

Genuine question.

Does anyone still believe we will be opening up indoor dining on the 19th of July to everyone as was planned for the 5th?

Zero chance, there is no possible way they will be ready even if Tony allows it.

is_that_so

the kelt wrote: »

Genuine question.

Does anyone still believe we will be opening up indoor dining on the 19th of July to everyone as was planned for the 5th?

Depends on UK data over the next two weeks and how much progress we make on the antigen testing plan and, of course, the pass they don't want to implement. 70% No at this stage and another MM speech to the nation about what we need to do. I'm more curious what he'll say about the rest of the summer and into the autumn.

crooked cockney villain

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Leo trying to rein Tony in again it seems...



Somehow however, I don't think it'll be up to Leo and Micheal though. NPHET pushing fear and hysteria, and their one-note lockdown "strategy" means that they'll get their way in the end - again!

I've actually started to think that this nonsense could well go on until the 2 lads swap jobs next year, and Leo does what will look good for Leo - which in this case coincides with what most of the public want.. A return to actual normality.

Last June or so Leo categorically stated that the era of national lockdowns was over, at worst we would see short regional ones.

I would bet my life savings that no other country in Europe will go into lockdown again.

Us though? We tend to do things differently.


re Leo vs MM, they need something to seperate themselves from each other come election time. Cue Leo saying MM was ridiculously cautious in the summer of 2020 given the rest of Europe proved this thing was over, but that for stability he felt unable to challenge him.

Anyway, with any luck street protests will have forced an election long before then. Mehole was determined to not be the the only FF leader not to become Taoiseach. I'd like some other titles attached to his Wikipedia.

- Only Taoiseach to be forced from office/ early election by street protests

- Only former Taoiseach to be jailed

- Only former Taoiseach to end up living in homeless emergency accommodation after having lost his assets in civil actions from the Vintners and Restaurants Association

The list goes on, really.

The funny thing is he actually seems a nice enough fella, but his bumbling incoherence and absolute ineptitude on all issues has been simply criminal, and he should be prosecuted as such.

Stheno

the kelt wrote: »

Genuine question.

Does anyone still believe we will be opening up indoor dining on the 19th of July to everyone as was planned for the 5th?

No tbh

RayCon

the kelt wrote: »

Genuine question.

Does anyone still believe we will be opening up indoor dining on the 19th of July to everyone as was planned for the 5th?

No, I think they'll announce some half-arsed "roadmap" of next restrictions easing on July 19th with nothing actually implemented on July 19th. Hope I'm wrong.

normanoffside

is_that_so wrote: »

Depends on UK data over the next two weeks and how much progress we make on the antigen testing plan and, of course, the pass they don't want to implement. 70% No at this stage and another MM speech to the nation about what we need to do.

Tony doesn't even want PCR testing to be allowed for indoor dining. It's vaccine/Recovery or nothing.
You'd have to wonder if it wouldn't tempt a few young people to get Covid so they can qualify to fly and dine indoors by proving recovery.

crooked cockney villain

normanoffside wrote: »

Tony doesn't even want PCR testing to be allowed for indoor dining. It's vaccine/Recovery or nothing.
You'd have to wonder if it wouldn't tempt a few young people to get Covid so they can qualify to fly and dine indoors by proving recovery.

I must say I'm quite happy to have caught Covid with what it appears is now happening.

Ballynally

the kelt wrote: »

Genuine question.

Does anyone still believe we will be opening up indoor dining on the 19th of July to everyone as was planned for the 5th?

As usual, a new group has been set up to study what is essentially already known in other jurisdictions including antigen tests. A report issued and sent to state bodies to examine the findings. A report issued and proposals sent to cabinet.
Cabinet discussions with involved parties including industry sectors. Back and forth, push and pull, a decision finally achieved.
With all that, what are the chances the final destination will be achieved on july 19, 2 1/2 weeks from now?
Slim..
But, if there is a will there is a way.
Cabinet is not willing though, so..

lawred2

Ballynally wrote: »

As usual, a new group has been set up to study what is essentially already known in other jurisdictions including antigen tests. A report issued and sent to state bodies to examine the findings. A report issued and proposals sent to cabinet.
Cabinet discussions with involved parties including industry sectors. Back and forth, push and pull, a decision finally achieved.
With all that, what are the chances the final destination will be achieved on july 19, 2 1/2 weeks from now?
Slim..
But, if there is a will there is a way.
Cabinet is not willing though, so..

If there's anything FF do well it's set up new bodies to "look at" things and commission reports that go nowhere.

It's how to be seen to do something while doing nothing.

MM has changed nothing about FF.

is_that_so

normanoffside wrote: »

Tony doesn't even want PCR testing to be allowed for indoor dining. It's vaccine/Recovery or nothing.
You'd have to wonder if it wouldn't tempt a few young people to get Covid so they can qualify to fly and dine indoors by proving recovery.

There is an inevitability to what NPHET will advise but not necessarily what the government will do. For now it's to closely follow that advice, but even the small deviation into antigen testing is a sign that they will not continue to do so indefinitely. The numbers over the next few weeks may dictate how soon that could happen. NPHET has now worked itself into a position where their advice is likely to be viewed with a lot of initial resistance. The callous indifference of the enforced hospitality pass seems to have annoyed an awful lot of people.

Solobally8

normanoffside wrote: »

Tony doesn't even want PCR testing to be allowed for indoor dining. It's vaccine/Recovery or nothing.
You'd have to wonder if it wouldn't tempt a few young people to get Covid so they can qualify to fly and dine indoors by proving recovery.

I said this exact same thing. I can imagine the Covid parties already!

Chivito550

Big Covid lecture from the driver of train over the intercom before train leaves. Would he ever feck off and just drive the train. Nobody cares anymore.

is_that_so

lawred2 wrote: »

If there's anything FF do well it's set up new bodies to "look at" things and commission reports that go nowhere.

It's how to be seen to do something while doing nothing.

MM has changed nothing about FF.

TBF the "looking at" has been passed to an expert group and some work has already been done on antigen testing recommendation. The logistics of it will be the real challenge.