Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

maude6868

Deleted User wrote: »

The Romanians, a great bunch of lads.

Why is it that they don't want the vaccines?

gozunda

MOH wrote: »

I ignored the question because I don't think that? Why do you think the sky is purple?

Because it was genuine question based on what you stated previously. But if you don't wish to answer no problem

MOH wrote: »

As to your question and to the graph showing case numbers "going up and down by day"
No, the daily graph just illustrates what cases happened to be counted on a particular day. It's know to fluctuate anyway since there tend to be higher and lower numbers of tests on particular days of the week.

Yes it does fluctuate. And those figures have been fluctuating up and down close to the same levels for months now. You'd expect for the numbers to have tailed off into the 100s or lower but they haven't

MOH wrote: »

And relative to what? They're a lot lower than they were before we had identified any Delta cases.

I already highlighted that. So whats keeping them up?

MOH wrote: »

Nice Tony Holohan move though. When most of the metrics don't agree with your message, pull another one out of your ass. 7-day average, 14-day average, current active cases, deaths, hospitalisations all apparently steadily decreased while Delta went from 0-55%.

Any half knowledgable person knows that our case numbers have come down from dramatic highs in January and February and have been seesawing ever since. Delta is relatively new and so far is increasing but as yet we've yet to see to dramatically push up numbers. And whilst Delta case numbers are rising we know the vaccination rate has also been steadily rising.

MOH wrote: »

I really think you're just trolling at this stage.
So pointing out the NPHET and a (not some) politician warned that the Alpha variant would make it very hard to keep cases below 500 is somehow an out of context rant, just because Alpha was superseded by another variant which should be pushing cases even higher?

We can all make the same type of puerile accusations. But let's keep this out of the sewer just for the moment. But yes jumping in and out of timeframes outside that relevant to Delta is of little use. Abd tbh estimates and projections are not data. But I think most people know that.

So 70% of our cases are Delta yet that's somehow not the prevailing variant?
I'm genuinely confused.

You better have a word with De Gascun then.

MOH wrote: »

Where are you getting that idea from?
You posted an RTE article and I pointed out that it quite clearly manipulates data.
I think you're trying to obfuscate facts because you're jumping through hoops to deliberately ignore the fact the most of the regularly used metrics dropped significantly between the time Delta entered the country and the time Tony sent his letter of doom. Which was based on data to that point.

I'm just trying to explain the anomaly of numbers steadily dropping over a period when they shouldn't have been, since the deputy CMO had warned that they'd remain high due to a variant which in the meantime was superseded by an even worse one.

I know metrics have dropped and yet our case numbers remain high (and yes I know some will say " who the fuk cares or wtte). The metrics dropped for two reasons 1. Vaccinations 2. Restrictions

The RTE article was linked primarily for the detail the evolution of the Delta variant here.

And yet you took that article and came up with the frankly bizarre idea imho that they were trying to manipulate data and "instill fear". Regardless of the fact the bit you alluded to was
atrociously badly written and indeed buried near the bottom of the a rather nerdy article where I guarantee very few even read it. If I wished to instill fear I think most could do hell of a lot better.

MOH wrote: »

I don't think there's any conspiracy, I think they're panicking. I think the daily case numbers have possibly been massively understated, and that they believe that. I think they were struggling anyway to get a complete picture of the situation after the hack, and Delta's given them a new problem. I think a lot more people have it, but are either mistaking it for hay fever, or vaccine side effects, or simply having much milder symptoms, and not bothering getting tested. I think they're terrified that it's already that widespread and if it starts hitting the older cohort who aren't yet fully vaccinated, we could see a lot of deaths very quickly.

Obviously that's all just wild speculation. But if that was the case and they just came out and said that, I'd obviously have no problem with delaying reopening while they finished the vaccinations. But they wouldn't, because admitting they don't actually know what's going on wouldn't look very competent.

That's about as far as I go on the conspiracy theory front with NPHET and the government.

You know what thats fair enough. I dont believe that is the case but Im sure we can agree to disagree.

Galwayguy35

RTE have George Lee back on a daily basis after a few months off to spread doom and gloom.

agoodpunt

maude6868 wrote: »

Why is it that they don't want the vaccines?

Low take up in romania and they have indoor dining opposite of here

JRant

maude6868 wrote: »

Why is it that they don't want the vaccines?

The heard about the hurricane of destruction coming our way.

Beechwoodspark

CruelSummer wrote: »

Can you answer the question? Do you support this measure? Fully vaccinated EU citizens being threatened with mandatory hotel quarantine at Dublin airport?

Hey cruel

If it is the law then the officers were obliged to carry out their duties

The politicians can change the law...

Personally - as far as I know- even a double vaccinated person can spread delta

Someone might confirm that??

lawrencesummers

maude6868 wrote: »

Why is it that they don't want the vaccines?

They probably do but just feel sorry for us and our third world health system.

JRant

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Hey cruel

If it is the law then the officers were obliged to carry out their duties

The politicians can change the law...

Personally - as far as I know- even a double vaccinated person can spread delta

Someone might confirm that??

An unvaccinated person is like Dairygold straight from the fridge, it'll spread easily.

A vaccinated person is like Kerrygold straight from the fridge, it's a nightmare to spread.

Ya see, unvaccinated = Dairygold, vaccinated = Kerrygold. Simples.

I like Michael O'Leary's line, "In fairness to NPHET, their job is to keep us locked down as long as possible".

He then goes on to argue what most of us have argued here: that government should not focus on NPHET, but to instead take a broader approach to evidence and society / comparisons with other EU countries, and not just the terminal risks ventilated by the NPHET organism.

facehugger99

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I like Michael O'Leary's line, "In fairness to NPHET, their job is to keep us locked down as long as possible".

He then goes on to argue what most of us have argued here: that government should not focus on NPHET, but to instead take a broader approach to evidence and society / comparisons with other EU countries, and not just the terminal risks ventilated by the NPHET organism.

He's dead right.

Much as I despise Holohan, he is being allowed to dictate policy by the weakest politicians in the history of the state.

The total abdication of responsibility has been absolutely shameful to watch.

As an electorate, we have reaped what we sowed. A bunch of local-issue gombeens without a backbone between them.

We will pay a very heavy price for this in the coming years.

lawrencesummers

JRant wrote: »

An unvaccinated person is like Dairygold straight from the fridge, it'll spread easily.

A vaccinated person is like Kerrygold straight from the fridge, it's a nightmare to spread.

Ya see, unvaccinated = Dairygold, vaccinated = Kerrygold. Simples.

Does that make the fridge NEPHT?

Because if it is the fridge is broken and the butter will be like cream in no time.

lawrencesummers

facehugger99 wrote: »

He's dead right.

Much as I despise Holohan, he is being allowed to dictate policy by the weakest politicians in the history of the state.

The total abdication of responsibility has been absolutely shameful to watch.

As an electorate, we have reaped what we sowed. A bunch of local-issue gombeens without a backbone between them.

We will pay a very heavy price for this in the coming years.

It’s a valid point, if Holohan didn’t advise what the worst case scenario could be then he wouldn’t be doing his job.

It’s just that the government are happy to implement restrictions based on his medical analysis and stand back while a log of the population blame nephet for those restrictions.

JRant

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Does that make the fridge NEPHT?

Because if it is the fridge is broken and the butter will be like cream in no time.

Not on your Nelly.

Zebra3

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I like Michael O'Leary's line, "In fairness to NPHET, their job is to keep us locked down as long as possible".

He then goes on to argue what most of us have argued here: that government should not focus on NPHET, but to instead take a broader approach to evidence and society / comparisons with other EU countries, and not just the terminal risks ventilated by the NPHET organism.

Very difficult to argue with that.

It really looks like we need a second opinion when what’s been given here looks so different to so much of the rest of Europe.

As we live in a democracy, members of NPHET would have no objection to this, right?

Allinall

Zebra3 wrote: »

Very difficult to argue with that.

It really looks like we need a second opinion when what’s been given here looks so different to so much of the rest of Europe.

As we live in a democracy, members of NPHET would have no objection to this, right?

We already have a plethora of opinions from all the experts on Boards.
Is that not enough?

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In a much earlier iteration of this thread, I recounted the case of a family I know who had to seek legal advice to get 'Covid 19' removed as cause of death from their middle-aged father's death certificate. The father was overrun with cancer and in his last visit with the consultant had been given a matter of weeks to live. Sure as such, he passed within weeks as at least 4 different cancers spread throughout his body. In a postmortem, he tested positive for Covid 19 and all of a sudden cancer(s) didn't matter.

That was a year ago. Ever since then I've doubted official figures. Plus, never mind my anecdotal account - It's almost a year to the day since we had the findings of a HIQA report about the likely overestimation of Covid 19 deaths up to that point. It was our government's first admission of 'Died of Covid/Died with Covid' not making a difference to the official figures, as Varadkar commented...



Many people in Ireland have unfortunately succumbed to this virus, but not 5,000 thankfully. As our Tánaiste admitted a year ago, the numbers are skewed.

Thankfully overall we have had one of the lowest death rates when listed against our closest European neighbours and thatc by quite a significant factor. Looking at the data I dont believe that's an underestimation.

Zebra3

Allinall wrote: »

We already have a plethora of opinions from all the experts on Boards.
Is that not enough?

Given the ignorance of our government, including the one who is so brain dead that he cleans his glasses with his face mask, the answer is obviously no, it’s not.

facehugger99

gozunda wrote: »

Thankfully overall we have had one of the lowest death rates when listed against our closest European neighbours and thatc by quite a significant factor. Looking at the data I dont believe that's an underestimation.

Because we have the youngest population in Europe.

15 months in and people still aren't getting it.

Covid is mostly harmless unless you are very old.

323

DellyBelly wrote: »

Listening to Claire Byrne at the moment and I have to say the Delta virus sounds frightening...you have to be worried what is going to happen over here. Next couple of weeks will be telling to see if this new variant rips through the country...I really thought we had turned a corner...depressing stuff

There lies your problem.

Beechwoodspark

"The crescendo of calls to “disband Nphet” and attribute autocratic characteristics to what is merely an advisory body, simply because it will not tell the inconvenienced what they want to hear, is really something to behold."



It really is...

lawrencesummers

facehugger99 wrote: »

Because we have the youngest population in Europe.

15 months in and people still aren't getting it.

Covid is mostly harmless unless you are very old.

Remember two things

The average age of people who have died is 83.

The average life expectancy is 81.

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

"The crescendo of calls to “disband Nphet” and attribute autocratic characteristics to what is merely an advisory body, simply because it will not tell the inconvenienced what they want to hear, is really something to behold."



It really is...

Quote from a letter to the Irish Times Btw

gozunda

facehugger99 wrote: »

Because we have the youngest population in Europe.

15 months in and people still aren't getting it.

Covid is mostly harmless unless you are very old.

No. Because when there were no vaccinations - having a young population most certainly was not an effective prophylatic to stop older cohorts being at risk from serious illness and death

And its not the 'very old' btw. All those who are medically vulnerable regardless of age are at risk from serious illness without vaccination.

But we already know this.

prunudo

When you see a poster post the same identical post on the two main covid threads at the same time you finally know they're trolling and on the wind up.

Beechwoodspark

prunudo wrote: »

When you see a poster post the same identical post on the two main covid threads at the same time you finally know they're trolling and on the wind up.

Not a wind up. Just a different view

Ballynally

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0702/1232724-oleary-criticises-govt-over-covid-cert-implementation/

O'leary article on RTE news channel. I didnt hear the interview and i take it this article has some of the highlights.
I am usually against a lot of what he says but he made some good points here.
The reason the government is not playing ball is because they dont want what everybody else in the EU has agreed to and already implementing.
They are even pushing the idea that july 19 is too early via dr.Cillian de Gascun, and that kind of sickens me as the man has been fairly reasonable so far.
It means that if they have any chance to delay the july19 date they will. If they are going to use the HSE hack as an excuse it is clear o' Leary is right.

From the article:

"What have you been doing for the last 6 weeks since the DCC was first announced?"/ (Is exactly what i have been thinking).

Mr O’Leary also sought confirmation from Mr Ryan that the Covid certificate system will be immediately switched on for all 1.5 million fully vaccinated people here, claiming they pose no threat or risk to the the National Public Health Emergency Team’s (NPHET) "variant scariant lockdown narrative."

Earlier, Dr Cillian de Gascun, the Director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory and member of NPHET expressed a personal view that it would be "too early" to open up travel to other EU member states on July 19.

Watch this space...

JRant

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Not a wind up. Just a different view

No, same view just multiple different threads.

Beechwoodspark

JRant wrote: »

No, same view just multiple different threads.

Same view against the tide of other views.

I try to represent what I call the silent majority

I try to flag that Boards users views are skewed in terms of the overall national sentiment.

JRant

Ballynally wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0702/1232724-oleary-criticises-govt-over-covid-cert-implementation/

O'leary article on RTE news channel. I didnt hear the interview and i take it this article has some of the highlights.
I am usually against a lot of what he says but he made some good points here.
The reason the government is not playing ball is because they dont want what everybody else in the EU has agreed to and already implementing.
They are even pushing the idea that july 19 is too early via dr.Cillian de Gascun, and that kind of sickens me as the man has been fairly reasonable so far.
It means that if they have any chance to delay the july19 date they will. If they are going to use the HSE hack as an excuse it is clear o' Leary is right.

From the article:

"What have you been doing for the last 6 weeks since the DCC was first announced?"/ (Is exactly what i have been thinking).

Mr O’Leary also sought confirmation from Mr Ryan that the Covid certificate system will be immediately switched on for all 1.5 million fully vaccinated people here, claiming they pose no threat or risk to the the National Public Health Emergency Team’s (NPHET) "variant scariant lockdown narrative."

Earlier, Dr Cillian de Gascun, the Director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory and member of NPHET expressed a personal view that it would be "too early" to open up travel to other EU member states on July 19.

Watch this space...

De Gascun should stick to his wheelhouse and leave matters of national policy to the government. NPHET have given their letter, random members of the their inner sanctum being roled out for soundbites is not what they are paid to do.

JRant

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Same view against the tide of other views.

I try to represent what I call the silent majority

I try to flag that Boards users views are skewed in terms of the overall national sentiment.

If only there was a term for copy and pasting the same post across multiple threads.