Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

MOH

gozunda wrote: »

You ignored the question why do you think infection rates in those not vaccinated remains high?

I ignored the question because I don't think that? Why do you think the sky is purple?

As to your question and to the graph showing case numbers "going up and down by day"

Thats the point of that graph. The figures are not going down - rather they remain relatively high. They are indeed "going up and down" and have been doing do for some time. And to that Ireland has the 4th or 5th highest 14-day case notification rate per 100 000 inhabitants in the EU and have had for some time. The daily graph simply illustrates whats going on in the background.
The graph if you wish to check is on the wiki Ireland Statistics page and are derived from hse daily reported cases. I posted a snapshot btw.

No, the daily graph just illustrates what cases happened to be counted on a particular day. It's know to fluctuate anyway since there tend to be higher and lower numbers of tests on particular days of the week.

And relative to what? They're a lot lower than they were before we had identified any Delta cases.

Nice Tony Holohan move though. When most of the metrics don't agree with your message, pull another one out of your ass. 7-day average, 14-day average, current active cases, deaths, hospitalisations all apparently steadily decreased while Delta went from 0-55%.

And if you wish to go on a general rant about Nphet and what some politicians said out of context at some point in March then please feel free.

I really think you're just trolling at this stage.
So pointing out the NPHET and a (not some) politician warned that the Alpha variant would make it very hard to keep cases below 500 is somehow an out of context rant, just because Alpha was superseded by another variant which should be pushing cases even higher?

As to "dominant' that would mean a proportion of cases prevailing over all others as in the UK. We still have a large proportion of Alhpa cases here.

So 70% of our cases are Delta yet that's somehow not the prevailing variant?
I'm genuinely confused.

Why is that you seem to believe everyone is trying to manipulate / obfuscate / lie? Is it some big conspiracy or ?

Where are you getting that idea from?
You posted an RTE article and I pointed out that it quite clearly manipulates data.
I think you're trying to obfuscate facts because you're jumping through hoops to deliberately ignore the fact the most of the regularly used metrics dropped significantly between the time Delta entered the country and the time Tony sent his letter of doom. Which was based on data to that point.

I'm just trying to explain the anomaly of numbers steadily dropping over a period when they shouldn't have been, since the deputy CMO had warned that they'd remain high due to a variant which in the meantime was superseded by an even worse one.

I don't think there's any conspiracy, I think they're panicking. I think the daily case numbers have possibly been massively understated, and that they believe that. I think they were struggling anyway to get a complete picture of the situation after the hack, and Delta's given them a new problem. I think a lot more people have it, but are either mistaking it for hay fever, or vaccine side effects, or simply having much milder symptoms, and not bothering getting tested. I think they're terrified that it's already that widespread and if it starts hitting the older cohort who aren't yet fully vaccinated, we could see a lot of deaths very quickly.

Obviously that's all just wild speculation. But if that was the case and they just came out and said that, I'd obviously have no problem with delaying reopening while they finished the vaccinations. But they wouldn't, because admitting they don't actually know what's going on wouldn't look very competent.

That's about as far as I go on the conspiracy theory front with NPHET and the government.

CruelSummer

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

O’Leary is absolutely full of it....best ignored

Says the poster who wants to curb access to air travel due to climate change i believe. At least be honest about your own agenda.

KanyeSouthEast

CruelSummer wrote: »

Says the poster who wants to curb access to air travel due to climate change i believe. At least be honest about your own agenda.

But but but Variants variants variants vulnerable vulnerable vulnerable.

Sammy2012

Greetings from a very wet evening in Killarney. We have spent almost a week here and we are heading tomorrow. We had a lovely week here due to the fact the weather was so nice. Spent a lovely morning strolling around the national park. However there are very few places set up here for actual outdoor dining that keeps out the rain. A miserable evening out now and so many places are empty. Its such a pity that you can't go in and have a meal or a drink. Myself and my husband have one vaccine already and will be fully vaccinated by the end of next week but its totally ridiculous that the government see fit to recommend an outdoor summer here. It's such a pity to see perfectly viable businesses left this way. We are both under 40 and would have no problem dining indoors. If you want to hide away do it but let the rest of us get on with our lives.

suicide_circus

At what point does it become reasonable to doubt official numbers?

quinneerr

I will let you in on a secret...............people are ignoring the restrictions, pubs are serving people in doors, some never stooped or closed at all since lockdown started in march 2020, life has gone on and the covid fear factor is over for most.

Beechwoodspark

CruelSummer wrote: »

Says the poster who wants to curb access to air travel due to climate change i believe. At least be honest about your own agenda.

That’s completely beside the point

O Leary has been an absolute melt for the entirety of the pandemic

Don’t be naive.

He cares about one thing. Ryanair profits.

Thankfully most ppl see through his agenda

Beechwoodspark

quinneerr wrote: »

I will let you in on a secret...............people are ignoring the restrictions, pubs are serving people in doors, some never stooped or closed at all since lockdown started in march 2020, life has gone on and the covid fear factor is over for most.

And therein is the reason delta is growing

agoodpunt

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

And therein is the reason delta is growing

Y not give urself a thx sadcon

prunudo

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

That’s completely beside the point

O Leary has been an absolute cretin for the entirety of the pandemic

Don’t be naive.

He cares about one thing. Ryanair profits.

Thankfully most ppl see through his agenda

Shock horror, successful buisnessman cares about the company he's built up and is worried about disproportionate rules which will adversely effect its viability.

CruelSummer

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

That’s completely beside the point

O Leary has been an absolute cretin for the entirety of the pandemic

Don’t be naive.

He cares about one thing. Ryanair profits.

Thankfully most ppl see through his agenda

So just to be crystal clear, you stand over Fully vaccinated EU citizens being threatened with mandatory hotel quarantine upon arrival into Dublin airport over the last two days?

MOR316

seamus wrote: »

Michael O'Leary on fancying himself as an epidemiologist again I see. Funny how his opinion always seem to be against those things that stop Ryanair making profits. One would be forgiven for thinking that he has an agenda...

I mean, O'Leary got fully behind the initial response, right? When everything shut down, he made statements saying that he fully supported the protection of workers and the public, right?. It's not like he effectively denied there was a serious pandemic or anything...

Oh, wait...

Seriously mate...

I genuinely do respect you as a poster.
By your own admission, you have staunchly defending every action NPHET have taken, rightly or wrongly...

I disagree with a lot of what you say but, that's cool. You put it across well and engage in debate without belittling or patronising antics

However, on this occasion, I have to interject...

He's a business man! His company's future is on the line! What do you expect him to say?

The Romanians, a great bunch of lads.

Beechwoodspark

CruelSummer wrote: »

So just to be crystal clear, you stand over Fully vaccinated EU citizens being threatened with mandatory hotel quarantine upon arrival into Dublin airport over the last two days?

It’s the law as far as I am aware.

???

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

At what point does it become reasonable to doubt official numbers?

In a much earlier iteration of this thread, I recounted the case of a family I know who had to seek legal advice to get 'Covid 19' removed as cause of death from their middle-aged father's death certificate. The father was overrun with cancer and in his last visit with the consultant had been given a matter of weeks to live. Sure as such, he passed within weeks as at least 4 different cancers spread throughout his body. In a postmortem, he tested positive for Covid 19 and all of a sudden cancer(s) didn't matter.

That was a year ago. Ever since then I've doubted official figures. Plus, never mind my anecdotal account - It's almost a year to the day since we had the findings of a HIQA report about the likely overestimation of Covid 19 deaths up to that point. It was our government's first admission of 'Died of Covid/Died with Covid' not making a difference to the official figures, as Varadkar commented...

Varadkar wrote:

“In Ireland we counted all deaths, in all settings, suspected cases even when no lab test was done, and included people with underlying terminal illnesses who died with Covid but not of it.”

Varadkar added that this was the “right approach but skewed the numbers”, saying the priority was “to save lives, not look good in league tables”.

Many people in Ireland have unfortunately succumbed to this virus, but not 5,000 thankfully. As our Tánaiste admitted a year ago, the numbers are skewed.

lawrencesummers

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

O’Leary is absolutely full of it....best ignored

Yea he hasn’t a clue.

Dumb as a ditch is our michael.


When in reality that man has done more for Ireland than 100years of politicians have ever done.

MOR316

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Romanians, a great bunch of lads.

"HAGI!!! Where will he spring from next? Haha"

CruelSummer

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It’s the law as far as I am aware.

???

Can you answer the question? Do you support this measure? Fully vaccinated EU citizens being threatened with mandatory hotel quarantine at Dublin airport?

Zebra3

Sammy2012 wrote: »

A miserable evening out now and so many places are empty.

That’s odd!! We were told on here yesterday that the hospitality industry (despite so many of their businesses still actually closed!) was doing a roaring trade!!!

CruelSummer

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

That’s completely beside the point

O Leary has been an absolute cretin for the entirety of the pandemic

Don’t be naive.

He cares about one thing. Ryanair profits.

Thankfully most ppl see through his agenda

So…because you say O’Leary has been a ‘cretin’ for this pandemic…for questioning the Government & comparing our response to others. I should believe you. Ya sure, you’ll have to stick to the Nphet /George Lee/ RTÉ worshippers for that one. They’ll prob believe you because you used the words ‘cretin’ & ‘profits’.

DarkJager21

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? I’d bet nothing at all. What they have done is piss off the majority of people and potentially broken any compliance the younger cohorts might have. I’d wager there are plenty of house parties up and down the country right now as a result that are more of a spread threat than any pub could ever hope to be.

Zebra3

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? I’d bet nothing at all. What they have done is piss off the majority of people and potentially broken any compliance the younger cohorts might have. I’d wager there are plenty of house parties up and down the country right now as a result that are more of a spread threat than any pub could ever hope to be.

Increased chance of pubs going out of business maybe.

Indoor hospitality in hotel, good.

Indoor hospitality in a pub, evil.

Archeron

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? .

It's given George Lee the opportunity to masturbate on live tv again while talking about a tsunami of destruction. There's that.

Multipass

Edz87 wrote: »

My wife and daughter are off to see granny and grandad in Italy today for the first time in a year.

Thank you Ryanair

I bought tickets yesterday for less than the bus fare to my nearest town. Michael O’Leary be praised!

agoodpunt

CruelSummer wrote: »

Can you answer the question? Do you support this measure? Fully vaccinated EU citizens being threatened with mandatory hotel quarantine at Dublin airport?

Facile comments troll, dosent ans anyone hit the ignore

normanoffside

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? I’d bet nothing at all. What they have done is piss off the majority of people and potentially broken any compliance the younger cohorts might have. I’d wager there are plenty of house parties up and down the country right now as a result that are more of a spread threat than any pub could ever hope to be.

Given that we have some of the highest levels of infection in Europe, I would say so.
Keeping things closed is probably creating even more cases at this stage

MOR316

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? I’d bet nothing at all. What they have done is piss off the majority of people and potentially broken any compliance the younger cohorts might have. I’d wager there are plenty of house parties up and down the country right now as a result that are more of a spread threat than any pub could ever hope to be.

Seriously, no good!

I know the hospitality sector needed a decision but, for Government and NPHET to do it within less than 24 hours, on dodgy modelling (it is, don't try to deny it) is ridiculous!

If that's what NPHET wanted to present, you find a way to work together, long before this week, to open businesses up and to help the hospitality and entertainment sectors, whilst helping people who work from home, get back into office.

If they came out with a clear and concise plan, all of this would have been avoided. No hard feelings, it has to be done.
The introduction of antigen testing would have eased the mood a lot too...Making people feel united and part of Europe...
If things seem to start to go bad, you ease back on certain sectors. It's understandable. It hurts but, it would be understandable

That's the actions of a strong Government.

But no... In my opinion
Controversial as it sounds, it doesn't suit Cillian De Gascun to have that testing introduced. Tony is 100% using this to further his agenda on a change of culture, as he said in 2010 and "anything to reduce the consumption of alcohol" as he said in January.
Nolan's models are ridiculous.
There is no questioning of NPHET so it makes the Government look weak, as they openly admit and accept anything "the CMO tells us" so it feeds into public negativity and here we are.

Basically, no matter where anyone's loyalty stands, this is a massive **** show! It's only going to be rinse and repeat from here on in.

If people want to deny it, good on them but, doesn't change the fact that in August, in October, in January, that poxbottle will be sat in front of a camera, saying, "But, we're not there yet"

DarkJager21

normanoffside wrote: »

Given that we have some of the highest levels of infection in Europe, I would say so.
Keeping things closed is probably creating even more cases at this stage

Cases mean nothing, there is practically nobody in hospital which is the main metric we should be looking at

normanoffside

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Cases mean nothing, there is practically nobody in hospital which is the main metric we should be looking at

Tell that to Tony

Mullaghteelin

suicide_circus wrote: »

At what point does it become reasonable to doubt official numbers?

When was it ever reasonable to accept official numbers at face value? There should always be room for questioning and critiquing, and allowing second opinions.
Ireland used to have a culture of never questioning authority figures, whether they be doctors priests or guards. It seems we may still be like that.