Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

prunudo

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’ve no qualifications in public health or managing a pandemic.

None whatsoever.

Neither do the govt.

so, the govt are taking the qualified expert advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

some posters on boards opinion on this is wildly diverged from the general view in society.

You've repeated this point a lot in the last few days. Anything to actually back it up or are you basing if from the targeted opinion poll companies.
Nobody I've talked to this week is happy with how nphet and the government are currently handling things.

jakiah

the kelt wrote: »

A lot of them seem to use Antigen testing also, perhaps they’re all lying!

Sure just ignore all that. NPHET, made up of senior figures from the worst run health system in Western Europe, are infallible. No need to look elsewhere, nothing to see there.

_Kaiser_

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

so, the govt are taking the qualified expert advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

some posters on boards opinion on this is wildly diverged from the general view in society.

You keep banging this "silent majority" drum, but the reality is that the public mood had already turned before the debacle last week (refer back to the recent IT poll for example).

The fantasy numbers and scare-mongering on Tuesday followed rapidly by revelations that the data wasn't up-to-date and didn't include all the factors resulted in massive public (and indeed media and political) backlash.
Then NPHET come out with more scary numbers and predictions of doom - surely not to try and make themselves relevant after crying wolf (again!) and Donnelly indirectly threatening to replace them with another group?

These are facts. You just need to read the papers, listen to the radio shows and even look around you.

I'm afraid it's YOU who is in the minority, not most of the posters on this thread.

Beechwoodspark

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You keep banging this "silent majority" drum, but the reality is that the public mood had already tuened before the debacle last week (refer back to the recent IT poll for example).

The fantasy numbers and scare-mongering on Tuesday followed rapidly by revelations that the data wasn't up-to-date and didn't include all the factors resulted in massive public (and indeed media and political backlash)

These are facts. You just need to read the papers, listen to the radio shows and even look around you.

I'm afraid it's YOU who is in the minority, not most of the posters on this thread.

Oh I have no illusions and no doubt that I’m the minority on this thread,

but I can tell you, get out and about talk to ppl and ask them are they glad we have experts in the form of NPHET to guide our govt...the answer might surprise you!

_Kaiser_

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Oh I have no illusions and no doubt that I’m the minority on this thread,

but I can tell you, get out and about talk to ppl and ask them are they glad we have experts in the form of NPHET to guide our govt...the answer might surprise you!

Sure.. pretty much everyone I know - with a variety of backgrounds, ages and personal circumstances - is long done with this nonsense and not even listening to the "experts" anymore.

Sometimes it really isn't them, it's you!

Micky 32

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

so, the govt are taking the qualified expert advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1410673460624465920?s=21

niallo27

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I openly have no issue saying I’ve no qualifications in public health or managing a pandemic.

None whatsoever. None.

Neither do the govt.

so, the govt are taking the qualified expert advice of NPHET for this country, I’m happy with that. the majority of ppl are

some posters on boards opinion on this is wildly diverged from the general view in society.

I could bullsh1t and bluster and talk nonsense about trusting my gut feelings and common sense and not requiring data models yadda yadda yadda all day, but

On balance I’m happy we have NPHET there

Nphet are not experts on data modelling.

_Kaiser_

niallo27 wrote: »

Nphet are not experts on data modelling.

NPHET are HSE civil servants and bureaucrats whose track record in managing our health service speaks for itself really! Then there's Holohan himself - a GP with a god complex and arrogance to match.

The fact that they are going against policy and recommendations elsewhere says it all. We either have an "Oirish" variant at play, or as usual Paddy thinks he knows best/has to take the data/advice and give it enough of an "Irish twist" to completely defeat the purpose.

robbiezero

Ignore the troll.

lawred2

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

NPHET are HSE civil servants and bureaucrats whose track record in managing our health service speaks for itself really! Then there's Holohan himself - a GP with a god complex and arrogance to match.

The fact that they are going against policy and recommendations elsewhere says it all. We either have an "Oirish" variant at play, or as usual Paddy thinks he knows best/has to take the data/advice and give it enough of an "Irish twist" to completely defeat the purpose.

How much of it is an innate desire to be seen to do the opposite to the Brits?

gozunda

Klonker wrote: »

They said not to have indoor dining open until late July and then only for vaccinated was it? Must have missed that.

Indeed. I take it you didn't read the entire report then? But yes - in the instance of non-pharmaceutical interventions such as restrictions on indoor activities - then yes they are advising that the lifting such restrictions "would result in increased opportunities for viral transmission". Pretty much is what been stated with regard to lifting restrictions here.

Many EU/EEA countries are currently implementing or considering the partial lifting of the non-pharmaceutical
interventions (NPIs). Lifting of such measures would result in increased opportunities for viral transmission.

Now as its a report for the entire EU / EEA - no they don't dictate individual countries response (such as the vaccinated dining idea - which is a non runner imo) but are indeed broadly in line with the modelling that the Delta variant will increase the rate of infection in all member countries in the next couple of months. But I think you know that.

Freedom 21

Freedom 21 wrote: »

Will we have a new plan now Leo says we wont have a 4th wave or has he seen the public reaction over the last day or 2 and decided il say what they want me to say?

He actually said that we WILL have a 4th wave but WONT have a 4th lockdown. Huge difference in what you’ve posted.

Penfailed

facehugger99 wrote: »

What this illustrates for me is how easily a State can slip into totalitarianism.

We have set the bar incredibly low as to how easily democratic rights and civil liberties can be removed. There are 30-odd people in hospital at the moment with Covid and the state is fining citizens €2,000 for going to the airport. If that doesn't strike anyone as worrying then I despair for the future of this country.

The population at large have shown themselves to be easily susceptible to manipulation through fear and hysteria. They have been more than willing to trade away hard-won freedoms on the promise of safety. While this Government are weak, cowardly and incompetent, the next one may have far more sinister intentions.

The prevailing response of most people has been a collective shrug of the shoulders as this nonsense has dragged on for over 15 months. I'd say the politicians can't believe how easily they have been able to push through restrictions with barely a whimper from the public - we have acted like frightened children throughout looking to be mammied and nannied by the State - it's been sickening and embarrassing to witness.

It's a worrying time for anyone who values democratic freedoms - the response to a fairly harmless virus has been disproportionate beyond belief.

What happens during the next Government-defined 'crisis' when there is a bunch of former terrorists and state-subversives with their hands on the levers of power?

Do you include yourself in that spiel? It's 'sickening and embarrassing to witness'? What have you done about it? If nothing, you're just as bad.

gozunda

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It’s completely disingenuous to suggest that it’s NPHET vs random posters on boards rather than NPHET vs their equivalent in pretty much every country on the continent.

Except we know that no two countries in Europe have the same restrictions or have handled the pandemic in the same way. Yeah we don't have indoor dining and Spain insisted everyone wear masks absolutely everywhere and Norway closed its borders or whatever

What we do have the experts in the
European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control now stating that EU countries are facing a wave of new infection and lifting restrictions atm might not just be a good idea and whether we like it or not pretty much what those bad boys in Nphet are saying.

Or we could play - oh look everyone is doing X - let's do that as well - why? - no reason just because!

_Kaiser_

lawred2 wrote: »

How much of it is an innate desire to be seen to do the opposite to the Brits?

I think you have a point there alright. You only have to look at the attitudes regarding Brexit, NI, even the prospect that England might win the Euros (though the Italians were impressive last night!)

Despite the fact that we all watch English TV, people follow English clubs, shop in English stores and love Amazon UK, and we have a lot more in common culturally than with the rest of the EU, there is definitely still a hang-up about our nearest neighbours.

Beechwoodspark

I wouldn’t be qualified to question NPHETs advice compared with the Uk or some random Euro country advice

Just don’t have the level of expertise to do that

Some posters clearly feel they know better.

Fair play to yee, ye are being wasted posting on here yiz should be in govt buildings advising cabinet some of you !

I certainly Wouldn’t presume to know all the factors for NPHETs recommendations in terms of ireland specific modelling

_Kaiser_

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I wouldn’t be qualified to question NPHETs advice compared with the Uk or some random Euro country advice

Just don’t have the level of expertise to do that

Some posters clearly feel they know better.

Fair play to yee, ye are being wasted posting on birds yiz should be in govt buildings advising cabinet some of you

I certainly Wouldn’t presume to know all the factors for NPHETs recommendations in terms of ireland specific modelling

Don't worry, NPHET don't know (or are ignoring) all the factors either!

The difference is most people (and yes, most - refer back to my earlier post) have seen through them now and are ignoring their pronouncements at this stage.

The problem with this though is that, like the boy who cried Wolf, if the Wolf actually DOES eventually come we'll all be in a much worse place.

kwestfan08

gozunda wrote: »

Except we know that no two countries in Europe have the same restrictions or have handled the pandemic in the same way. Yeah we don't have indoor dining and Spain insisted everyone wear masks absolutely everywhere and Norway closed its borders or whatever

What we do have the experts in the
European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control now stating that EU countries are facing a wave of new infection and lifting restrictions atm might not just be a good idea and whether we like it or not pretty much what those bad boys in Nphet are saying.

Or we could play - oh look everyone is doing X - let's do that as well - why? - no reason just because!

New infections that will primarily be in the younger aged unvaccinated cohort of which 99.99% won’t die.

Reason enough to keep the economy from taking off isn’t it? A less deadly strain of a virus that for the most part is harmless to those who will now catch it.

ACitizenErased

Bizarre how NPHET can still be defended despite being the one outlier in the entirety of Europe.
Mental, to be blunt.

KanyeSouthEast

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Bizarre how NPHET can still be defended despite being the one outlier in the entirety of Europe.
Mental, to be blunt.

It’s like your man Comical Ali telling us the Americans had been driven out of Iraq and bombs landing all around him. Mental is right.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Bizarre how NPHET can still be defended despite being the one outlier in the entirety of Europe.
Mental, to be blunt.

I genuinely believe some posters are working on behalf of NPHET / the government.

Ballynally

kwestfan08 wrote: »

New infections that will primarily be in the younger aged unvaccinated cohort of which 99.99% won’t die.

Reason enough to keep the economy from taking off isn’t it? A less deadly strain of a virus that for the most part is harmless to those who will now catch it.

EU health organisations overall are prone to advocate caution and advise governments to use restrictions in order to surpress ..... fill in the blanks here.
It is still up to governments to make decisions about their country.

Sorry, no relevance to your post but to the initial poster your post was commenting on.
Gozunda has been on my ignore list for a while now

_Kaiser_

Miharo wrote: »

I genuinely believe some posters are working on behalf of NPHET / the government.

Possible I suppose, but I think a lot of it (at national level) is just down to some people's natural deference to authority no matter what, a need to be seen to be on the right side of an issue, and an "I'm alright Jack" POV in that if something doesn't affect them (or if they are actually doing well from it) then feck everyone else!

Covid aside, it explains why a lot of things are the way they are in Ireland!

Beechwoodspark

Just in case anyone suspects I’m some sort of Undercover NPHET Mole sorry to break it to you but a travelling Salesman and stockist for convenience stores here ! Nothing more exciting than that

I don’t feel we are overly deferential as a nation to NPHET.

More - NPHET have the expertise and qualifications desperately required for the management of the pandemic.

I would also strenuously say we should not take any advice as if from a stone tablet given to Moses

bucketybuck

the kelt wrote: »

Genuine question.

Does anyone still believe we will be opening up indoor dining on the 19th of July to everyone as was planned for the 5th?

Of course we won't. And we knew damn well that we wouldn't when the chucklefucks were saying "We have come this far, do we want to throw it away for the sake of just two more weeks" :rolleyes:

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It’s not a matter of Tony “allowing it”

It comes down to the situation in terms of numbers and projections - all based on expert advice

Why are the "experts" giving very different advice than the experts in our closest neighbouring countries? Which of the "experts" is wrong, because one of them has to be, a child can see that?

bucketybuck

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just in case anyone suspects I’m some sort of Undercover NPHET Mole sorry to break it to you but a travelling Salesman and stockist for convenience stores here ! Nothing more exciting than that

I don’t feel we are overly deferential as a nation to NPHET.

More - NPHET have the expertise and qualifications desperately required for the management of the pandemic.

I would also strenuously say we should not take any advice as if from a stone tablet given to Moses

I don't think you work for NPHET. Thats not what I think you are.

lee_baby_simms

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Possible I suppose, but I think a lot of it (at national level) is just down to some people's natural deference to authority no matter what, a need to be seen to be on the right side of an issue, and an "I'm alright Jack" POV in that if something doesn't affect them (or if they are actually doing well from it) then feck everyone else!

Covid aside, it explains why a lot of things are the way they are in Ireland!

We certainly have an unhealthy amount of obsequiousness in Irish society, it seems to be in our DNA. Whether it’s rooted in our colonial past I don’t know.

What we see today is no different to how someone like John Charles McQuaid ruled by fiat 70 years ago. It’s mainly characterised by a cognitive bias, a complete absence of critical thinking.

Maybe coming to an evidence based conclusion that the people in charge are maybe not as competent as we would have hoped is too much to contemplate for some? I don’t know.

Beechwoodspark

bucketybuck wrote: »

Of course we won't. And we knew damn well that we wouldn't when the chucklefucks were saying "We have come this far, do we want to throw it away for the sake of just two more weeks" :rolleyes:



Why are the "experts" giving very different advice than the experts in our closest neighbouring countries? Which of the "experts" is wrong, because one of them has to be, a child can see that?

I would suspect Part of it is we have far less hospital capacity in this country to neighbouring countries

acequion

facehugger99 wrote: »

What this illustrates for me is how easily a State can slip into totalitarianism.

We have set the bar incredibly low as to how easily democratic rights and civil liberties can be removed. There are 30-odd people in hospital at the moment with Covid and the state is fining citizens €2,000 for going to the airport. If that doesn't strike anyone as worrying then I despair for the future of this country.

The population at large have shown themselves to be easily susceptible to manipulation through fear and hysteria. They have been more than willing to trade away hard-won freedoms on the promise of safety. While this Government are weak, cowardly and incompetent, the next one may have far more sinister intentions.

The prevailing response of most people has been a collective shrug of the shoulders as this nonsense has dragged on for over 15 months. I'd say the politicians can't believe how easily they have been able to push through restrictions with barely a whimper from the public - we have acted like frightened children throughout looking to be mammied and nannied by the State - it's been sickening and embarrassing to witness.

It's a worrying time for anyone who values democratic freedoms - the response to a fairly harmless virus has been disproportionate beyond belief.

What happens during the next Government-defined 'crisis' when there is a bunch of former terrorists and state-subversives with their hands on the levers of power?

I missed this excellent post from several pages back and have only just read it. It is a 100% accurate reading of the situation and I cannot understand how anyone would disagree. It is undeniable that the State has removed many of our basic liberties and it is undeniable that people have either just shrugged the shoulders in the Irish way or downright colluded and supported it because brainwashed by fear. Like this poster I'm worried for the future of this country. It has all the hallmarks of the Church dominated era,but this time it's the medics. It's frightening to see how easily it can be done and how history repeats itself.

Penfailed wrote: »

Do you include yourself in that spiel? It's 'sickening and embarrassing to witness'? What have you done about it? If nothing, you're just as bad.

Why is he just as bad? Did you not read the post properly? It's about the state abuse of power and there really is little the ordinary citizen can do apart from lobby TDs. As I said above that "spiel" is an accurate reading of the situation and why do people want to deny reality? Is it because they are very uncomfortable with it and prefer denial? Which is pretty much what the poster was saying. The collective response should be anger and fightback, not apathy and denial.

Beechwoodspark

The UK are flip flopping since may or earlier

Dominic Cummings says boris is like a trolley crashing from side to side in a supermarket aisle

Constant confusion and flipping and saying we are opening everything up by x date and then backtracking and deflections.

Looking at what they are at, I am happier with the Irish approach to it

Part of it too is we have much less hospital capacity here compared to other countries