All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020

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mountgomery burns wrote: »

Won't be their last either, although people need to calm down with their 5 in a row talk etc

Yeah I think Limerick were super motivated this year, Liam McCarthy spent a year in Tipperary(who they comphrensively bet in Munster final) because they didn't turn up in the right frame of mind in last years semi against Kilkenny (of all people to take for granted).

Since Cork over 15 years ago no one other than Kilkenny has done back to back. A lot of good teams have come and gone since and failed to managed even two in a row.

The hunger that Kilkenny team showed to keep on top was something unique.

As a Waterford man I wasn't very hopefully going into yesterday; when this Limerick team show up there is something very ruthless(in the best sense of the word) about them. I always feel watching them irrespective of score that they believe they are going to win.

In 2018 they remarkably won three games that a young team usually lose which is quite unique; that belief, confidence has matured and IF they can show hunger to turn up in right condition and frame of mind they are out on their own. It's a big if as good and all as they are.

I'd asked lads to lay off on the whinging and negative talk; Limerick have had nearly as many bad days as ourselves before 2018 let them enjoy their victory and time on top of the pile. They got their on merit, they play a physical brand of hurling (but fcuk it it's a man's game and always has been) but Jesus they have some smashing hurlers to.

That Waterford team shouldn't be low on motivation for next year.

formerlyET

A big deal being made out of Limerick's size and strength, visually it's impressive if that's what your into but what of it?

Their tactics work.

But more than that it doesn't matter how big the dog is, it's the fight in the dog.

As Kilkenny and Tipp proved in last year's semis - have you got the dog in you when it comes to the battle.

And no one had more dog in them than Limerick this year - regardless, of size or anything else.

All those lads sprinting down the wing and lofting over points in space - came from lads putting in the dog rough stuff and earning their ball - every team has the skills but can you earn the space to demostrate the skills.

vapor trails

How come the JP McManus factor is not really mentioned in here? The Dubs face scrutiny for the unfair advantages they receive but in fairness, most of it is transparent (GAA central funding) and built from within (Commercial stuff like AIG). You could see John Mullane was having thinly-veiled pop at Limericks resources saying they have a backroom staff of 20+ on the indo podcast. I think JP's countrywide €3,000 club donation was a prepayment to protect himself if he ever got criticized for turning Limerick GAA into his own private equity sports club. All I'm asking for is complete and utter transparency for every single euro a team gets. That includes a free dinner in the coach house at Adare manor, or 3 night stay in Sandy Lane Barbados.

FintanMcluskey

formerlyET wrote: »

A big deal being made out of Limerick's size and strength, visually it's impressive if that's what your into but what of it?
As Kilkenny and Tipp proved in last year's semis - have you got the dog in you when it comes to the battle.

I’m not good enough to articulate this but a good big man will beat an excellent small man all day using the rules currently enforced.

They spoke last night about some keeper playing against Limerick that was taking a puck out. He looked up the field and seen green jerseys towering over his own men.

That’s where the game is won and lost. Puck out and fielding.

Goals aren’t scored anymore. It’s stat based.

Rolo2010

vapor trails wrote: »

How come the JP McManus factor is not really mentioned in here? The Dubs face scrutiny for the unfair advantages they receive but in fairness, most of it is transparent (GAA central funding) and built from within (Commercial stuff like AIG). You could see John Mullane was having thinly-veiled pop at Limericks resources saying they have a backroom staff of 20+ on the indo podcast. I think JP's countrywide €3,000 club donation was a prepayment to protect himself if he ever got criticized for turning Limerick GAA into his own private equity sports club. All I'm asking for is complete and utter transparency for every single euro a team gets. That includes a free dinner in the coach house at Adare manor, or 3 night stay in Sandy Lane Barbados.

John Mullane sounds like a sore loser.

Realt Dearg Sec

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They spoke last night about some keeper playing against Limerick that was taking a puck out. He looked up the field and seen green jerseys towering over his own men.

I hope they weren't making excuses for the Galway keeper anyway. I don't care how tall Limerick are, pucking it over the sideline isn't the right decision, but it was the one he made more than once.

Rasputin11

Rolo2010 wrote: »

John Mullane sounds like a sore loser.

There was a great picture doing the rounds of him as a chap with a Limerick hat on. There's another with a young Declan Hannon in what looks like an Offaly jersey, but it's actually a Killavilla jersey, a small club in Offaly. I'd love to know the story behind it.

formerlyET

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’m not good enough to articulate this but a good big man will beat an excellent small man all day using the rules currently enforced.

They spoke last night about some keeper playing against Limerick that was taking a puck out. He looked up the field and seen green jerseys towering over his own men.

That’s where the game is won and lost. Puck out and fielding.

Goals aren’t scored anymore. It’s stat based.

Oh yeah, gameplans don't get figured out at all at all. The game never changes and quickly at all at all.

FintanMcluskey

formerlyET wrote: »

Oh yeah, gameplans don't get figured out at all at all. The game never changes and quickly at all at all.

They had 3 years to figure out Limericks game plan

No closer though

formerlyET

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They had 3 years to figure out Limericks game plan

No closer though

what happened last year?

sleepyholland

Rolo2010 wrote: »

John Mullane sounds like a sore loser.

Mullane was fairly gracious in defeat actually and full of praise for this Limerick team.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/a-record-massive-winning-margins-and-serious-hunger-why-limerick-are-on-track-for-kilkenny-like-greatness-39858970.html

FintanMcluskey

formerlyET wrote: »

what happened last year?

A blip in the matrix.

Similar to the 2014 football semi final.

This is a team built around 23-24 year olds that are already well above the chasing pack

vapor trails

vapor trails wrote: »

How come the JP McManus factor is not really mentioned in here? The Dubs face scrutiny for the unfair advantages they receive but in fairness, most of it is transparent (GAA central funding) and built from within (Commercial stuff like AIG). You could see John Mullane was having thinly-veiled pop at Limericks resources saying they have a backroom staff of 20+ on the indo podcast. I think JP's countrywide €3,000 club donation was a prepayment to protect himself if he ever got criticized for turning Limerick GAA into his own private equity sports club. All I'm asking for is complete and utter transparency for every single euro a team gets. That includes a free dinner in the coach house at Adare manor, or 3 night stay in Sandy Lane Barbados.

Plenty of counties have had money over the years, what seems to be unusual in Limerick's case is it was invested in a proper underage system, and not spunked away on vanity projects or on the senior team at the expense of everything else.

Iirc, Cork, Galway, Tipperary and Limerick have more players than Kilkenny, but Kilkenny have always nurtured their smaller pool of players from underage up. Of the other four counties, it's unarguable (I know, I know) that Limerick have under performed relative to their playing numbers for years and years. Limerick have won only 4 All Ireland's since the 1940's, that's a pretty poor return for a county with a massive playing population.

crossman47

crossman47 wrote: »

Terrible to think improving S&C is seen as the imperative.

It has to be though. the physical gap between Antrim and Waterford is far wider than the gap between Waterford and Limerick (judging by yesterday's matches). All the big hurling counties are unbelievably fit now. If you fall behind any of them you aren't going to be able to compete with them.

FintanMcluskey

crossman47 wrote: »

Terrible to think improving S&C is seen as the imperative.

And that’s where the lines between professional and amateur are becoming blurred

formerlyET

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

A blip in the matrix.

Similar to the 2014 football semi final.

This is a team built around 23-24 year olds that are already well above the chasing pack

A blip in the matrix that the team that won the All-Ireland in 2010 & 2016 won in 2019.

You're tying yourself in knots. :pac:

breezy1985

Deleted User wrote: »

Plenty of counties have had money over the years, what seems to be unusual in Limerick's case is it was invested in a proper underage system, and not spunked away on vanity projects or on the senior team at the expense of everything else.

Iirc, Cork, Galway, Tipperary and Limerick have more players than Kilkenny, but Kilkenny have always nurtured their smaller pool of players from underage up. Of the other four counties, it's unarguable (I know, I know) that Limerick have under performed relative to their playing numbers for years and years. Limerick have won only 4 All Ireland's since the 1940's, that's a pretty poor return for a county with a massive playing population.

Using all the factors that supposedly bring success like population and the playing numbers and sponsorship potential that come with that Limerick not being one of the big 3 is as much an anomaly as Kilkennys success. Goes to show that resources have to be backed up the proper use of of those resources or its all for nothing

FintanMcluskey

formerlyET wrote: »

A blip in the matrix that the team that won the All-Ireland in 2010 & 2016 won in 2019.

You're tying yourself in knots. :pac:

I thought you were referring to Kilkenny in the semi not the team Limerick obliterated in the Munster Final last year or beat by 9 points this year.

Apologies I didn’t follow you

formerlyET

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I thought you were referring to Kilkenny in the semi not the team Limerick obliterated in the Munster Final last year or beat by 9 points this year.

Apologies I didn’t follow you

You're blipping in the matrix.

The_Kew_Tour

When you take out the City really there is not a whole pile in Limerick county. The city is more Rugby and has decent junior soccer clubs and only handful decent hurling teams.

Newcastlewest is biggest town in limerick, but I could name 6 or 7 towns alone in Kerry that we bigger than it.

Yes they should maybe do better but it’s been more a county game then in city and when you take that into account their record is not as bad although they probably should have 3-6 more All Ireland’s for size etc.

blackcard

Robson99 wrote: »

3 possible changes needed.
Make the Sliathor heavier, make a goal worth 4 pts and 10 mins sin bin for pulling or cynical play.
Game is turning into a middle 3rd borefest with points scored from own half back lines. Full forward line becoming non existant

Agree with all the above. You could add in that there has to be clear separation between the hand and the sliotar when 'throwing' the ball. Also penalizing for too many steps.

There was one particular point yesterday where S O'Keeffe pucked the ball 85 yards to an unmarked Waterford Player who scored a point from there. Terrific skill. But no one was within 20 yards of the player. This is not going to get anyone excited about hurling. In a game where a team can score 30 points, trying to fashion a goal is not worth the risk. I think in the 80's and 90's, only Tipperary against Antrim managed to score 20 points in an All Ireland. goals were important and created excitement
Nothing against Limerick, I am sure if there was a team around that could match them, you would have excitement

Girly Gal

blackcard wrote: »

Agree with all the above. You could add in that there has to be clear separation between the hand and the sliotar when 'throwing' the ball. Also penalizing for too many steps.

There was one particular point yesterday where S O'Keeffe pucked the ball 85 yards to an unmarked Waterford Player who scored a point from there. Terrific skill. But no one was within 20 yards of the player. This is not going to get anyone excited about hurling. In a game where a team can score 30 points, trying to fashion a goal is not worth the risk. I think in the 80's and 90's, only Tipperary against Antrim managed to score 20 points in an All Ireland. goals were important and created excitement
Nothing against Limerick, I am sure if there was a team around that could match them, you would have excitement

Tipp weren't the only team to score 20 points in an All Ireland final in the 80's or 90's; Galway scored 2-21 in 1990 and still lost to Cork who scored 5-15, but, goals were more important then, it's really only the last 3 or 4 years that the goals have started to dry up, which is a pity.

Sheep breeder

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Exactly that, I can remember Offaly in particular in the 90s being full of by today's standards light bodied individuals but being at times exhilarating to watch. Similarly from around the same era (little later) you had prolific forwards like John Mullane and Joe Deane who wouldn't see the ball these days without being sledged out of it. DJ Carey even prob wouldn't have been seen as bulked enough to make a starting 15 in the modern game.

Yes that Offaly team was full of skill, how would Jonny pilkington survive in today’s game with all the diets and bulking, he was a joy to watch in full flow and John Troy skill and had the privilege as a neutral watching Brian Whelahan sick by so well winning an all Ireland.

sasta le

Limerick have JP McManus funding them they can have it get anything they want or need
Id say more money available than Dublin

formerlyET

Let's talk about players from different ears in the modern game because that makes sense.

Because if DJ or Johnny Pilkington, or Tommy Walsh or Joe Deane were around today they wouldn't be exposed to the same S & C or knowledge as other players today. Yeah, that makes sense.

Mehapoy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

When you take out the City really there is not a whole pile in Limerick county. The city is more Rugby and has decent junior soccer clubs and only handful decent hurling teams.

Newcastlewest is biggest town in limerick, but I could name 6 or 7 towns alone in Kerry that we bigger than it.

Yes they should maybe do better but it’s been more a county game then in city and when you take that into account their record is not as bad although they probably should have 3-6 more All Ireland’s for size etc.

In terms of playing population (hurling) I think Limerick have less than Tipp, Cork and Galway. Bigger than Clare, Waterford and Kilkenny maybe, probably about right for where they are on roll of honour etc. Probably Kilkenny are the biggest outliers in terms of punching above their weight.
Improvement in Limerick city hurling participation is vital in sustaining an upturn as it has the population and west Limerick is an untapped resource also. The academy structures are bring through some west Limerick players to the u20s and minors in recent years. Plenty more to be done in Limerick.

roverjoyce

Rolo2010 wrote: »

John Mullane sounds like a sore loser.

sasta le wrote: »

Limerick have JP McManus funding them they can have it get anything they want or need
Id say more money available than Dublin

Its the elephant in the room

Only county with no sponsor!

All expenses paid players holiday - no fundraising needed

All college players get 4 years all expenses paid

Biggest backroom team in hurling

JP is beyond question - why???

Tombo2001

roverjoyce wrote: »

Its the elephant in the room

Only county with no sponsor!

All expenses paid players holiday - no fundraising needed

All college players get 4 years all expenses paid

Biggest backroom team in hurling

JP is beyond question - why???

Think this is a bit unfair - every county is reasonably well funded at this point, at the top level. They get a holiday (this year?) .... what difference does it make if there is no sponsor on the jersey......

carq

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Think this is a bit unfair - every county is reasonably well funded at this point, at the top level. They get a holiday (this year?) .... what difference does it make if there is no sponsor on the jersey......

Would be good to see the accounts across counties to see what is being put in each both from the GAA and privately.

Waterford had to have a gofundme campaign from supporters just before the all Ireland final to get some money in the coffers. We know there is a black hole there since Davy Fitz left

sasta le

roverjoyce wrote: »

Its the elephant in the room

Only county with no sponsor!

All expenses paid players holiday - no fundraising needed

All college players get 4 years all expenses paid

Biggest backroom team in hurling

JP is beyond question - why???

Because he is so rich and powerful