All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020

Tombo2001

Its a VAR related post primarily.

My point to put it differently is that where VAR was used in Soccer it hasnt worked; in Rugby it arguably has from a rules perspective but it still takes ages to work. However Rugby is much more stop / start as a game so the 'flow' of the game isnt as much of an issue.

sasta le

Wonder will the Limerick team go on the piss?

Motivator

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Reading through the posts from after the game and it's disappointing to see so many ridiculing Fergal Horgan. I was never a referee and have no connections to any but i rarely if ever criticise a referee as i know how difficult a job it is. It's pretty much impossible to keep all sides satisfied as mistakes will always be made.

I wouldn't have the balls to referee a hurling game as with so much going on at such a fast pace and no real defined tackle it must be a nightmare for any one man to go through that pressure for 70 + minutes. Especially at this highest level with every call scrutinised and criticised by armchair referee's and cowards who wouldn't have the guts to do what the men in black do. Their not perfect by any means. But it's not an exact science being a hurling referee. Never was and never will be. They do it to the best of their ability with no bias or favour and that's good enough for me.

Fair play to Fergal Horgan on having the honour of refereeing the biggest game of all.

Hang on a second, nobody is saying it’s an easy job. The man isn’t up to it, that much is clear. Brian Gavin, an excellent referee in his day, was in the paper today basically saying Horgan got as much wrong as he did right. Horgan is poor and has been for some time now and how he even got the final is a total mystery. Hopefully it will be his last because he was terrible yesterday. Referees at that level have a hugely difficult job but it’s still his job, he’s not some joe soap grabbed off the street and told to referee the game. The All Ireland finals should have the best referees, Horgan is not the best referee.

Before you say anything, I was a referee for a short time before not being able to commit any longer. The one thing I always did was lay down a marker in the first ten minutes. All Ireland finals are emotional days for players and they need reminding of where the line is and how close they can go before crossing it. I got a lot of things wrong in games but I knew how to put my mark on a game. Fergal Horgan didn’t do that yesterday and the game became farcical at times to be honest.

Dyr

Motivator wrote: »

Before you say anything, I was a referee for a short time before not being able to commit any longer. The one thing I always did was lay down a marker in the first ten minutes.
Fergal Horgan didn’t do that yesterday and the game became farcical at times to be honest.

So you didnt apply the rules as they should have been applied in the first 10 minutes, great basis to criticise Horgan from

Refs arent there to lay down markers or put their mark on a game.

deise08

Hard anall as it is as a spectator watching a bad ref, how hard must it be for the players?
And I mean any ref.

crossman47

Bambi wrote: »

So you didnt apply the rules as they should have been applied in the first 10 minutes, great basis to criticise Horgan from

Refs arent there to lay down markers or put their mark on a game.

I think he means he did apply the rules strictly.

breezy1985

Outside of the fact he should have given Hannon a yellow for the drag down I honestly don't remember any big moments on either side that I thought were very controversial.

There were a tap on the head from a Waterford player and one in the privates from Limerick but I think the were rightly called as accidental. Limerick got a free after the big goal chance that I didn't understand.

There was the usual pulling, dragging, steps and dodgy hand passes but nothing more than any other game

spaceCreated

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Reading through the posts from after the game and it's disappointing to see so many ridiculing Fergal Horgan. I was never a referee and have no connections to any but i rarely if ever criticise a referee as i know how difficult a job it is. It's pretty much impossible to keep all sides satisfied as mistakes will always be made.

I wouldn't have the balls to referee a hurling game as with so much going on at such a fast pace and no real defined tackle it must be a nightmare for any one man to go through that pressure for 70 + minutes. Especially at this highest level with every call scrutinised and criticised by armchair referee's and cowards who wouldn't have the guts to do what the men in black do. Their not perfect by any means. But it's not an exact science being a hurling referee. Never was and never will be. They do it to the best of their ability with no bias or favour and that's good enough for me.

Fair play to Fergal Horgan on having the honour of refereeing the biggest game of all.

Horgan has been consistent in giving any team Waterford play massive beneficial decisions and ignoring extremely dodgy "tackles" and "accidents". Theres a reason before the match we were saying that Horgan would make extremely unusual decisions benefiting Limerick, so either we're psychic or theres a trend.

Whats hilarious is that I know a former Gaa referee who would defend any kind of decision made by an ref but he draws the line at Horgan. But hey ignore everything and keep up there on your high horse.

It is an honour to ref the biggest match in hurling and everyone in Waterford hopes he never refs one of our games again, he can rest happy in consistently making some of the most unusual and baffling decisions I've ever seen. It seems to be unfair for an entire county to hope for a fair ref, and then get lambasted for being critical of a horrible performance.

callaway92

sasta le wrote: »

Wonder will the Limerick team go on the piss?

They’re probably preparing the Manor for this weekend as I write this.

spaceCreated

breezy1985 wrote: »

Outside of the fact he should have given Hannon a yellow for the drag down I honestly don't remember any big moments on either side that I thought were very controversial.

There were a tap on the head from a Waterford player and one in the privates from Limerick but I think the were rightly called as accidental. Limerick got a free after the big goal chance that I didn't understand.

There was the usual pulling, dragging, steps and dodgy hand passes but nothing more than any other game

Every drag Waterford made was blown, you had Limerick players running around with Waterford hurleys, etc which he wouldnt blow "so the game would flow". You cant give frees for one team and it be thought of as an acceptable standard.

Non-existent frees being given.

Being forced to retake a sideline cut because the ball was rolling, weird how he managed to see such things but not hurleys driven in to dangerous areas.

The only time Waterford started getting frees was 10 minutes before half time when it seemed he was blowing for everything, possibly a fitness issue I don't know.

The best part was him shouting at a Waterford player for 30 seconds delaying a restart for God only knows what.

Edit: weird how you didnt mention the drives of the hurley to very dangerous areas

crossman47

Tony Considine agrees hurling is now boring https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-40190202.html

breezy1985

spaceCreated wrote: »

Every drag Waterford made was blown, you had Limerick players running around with Waterford hurleys, etc which he wouldnt blow "so the game would flow". You cant give frees for one team and it be thought of as an acceptable standard.

Non-existent frees being given.

Being forced to retake a sideline cut because the ball was rolling, weird how he managed to see such things but not hurleys driven in to dangerous areas.

The only time Waterford started getting frees was 10 minutes before half time when it seemed he was blowing for everything, possibly a fitness issue I don't know.

The best part was him shouting at a Waterford player for 30 seconds delaying a restart for God only knows what.

Edit: weird how you didnt mention the drives of the hurley to very dangerous areas

I did mention a hit in the privates but I only remember it happening once

Limerick scored 6 frees all day so to say he blew for every Waterford pull is just lies

And the few times Limerick players were holding hurleys you slyly leave out the fact that most of the time it was when Waterford defenders had their hurleys illegally wrapped round players

spaceCreated

breezy1985 wrote: »

I did mention a hit in the privates but I only remember it happening once

Limerick scored 6 frees all day so to say he blew for every Waterford pull is just lies

And the few times Limerick players were holding hurleys you slyly leave out the fact that most of the time it was when Waterford defenders had their hurleys illegally wrapped round players

We barely fouled because it was a free every time we did and credit where its due the Limerick team didn't give much opportunity it was straight over the shoulder.

Slyly left their hurleys wrapped around the Limerick players? While running with the sliotar and having the ball in their possession they wrapped the hurley around the Limerick players? What kind of...

Edit: it wasnt a tap in the privates anyway it was more than enough to do serious damage

rebel girl 15

Motivator wrote: »

Hang on a second, nobody is saying it’s an easy job. The man isn’t up to it, that much is clear. Brian Gavin, an excellent referee in his day, was in the paper today basically saying Horgan got as much wrong as he did right. Horgan is poor and has been for some time now and how he even got the final is a total mystery. Hopefully it will be his last because he was terrible yesterday. Referees at that level have a hugely difficult job but it’s still his job, he’s not some joe soap grabbed off the street and told to referee the game. The All Ireland finals should have the best referees, Horgan is not the best referee.

Before you say anything, I was a referee for a short time before not being able to commit any longer. The one thing I always did was lay down a marker in the first ten minutes. All Ireland finals are emotional days for players and they need reminding of where the line is and how close they can go before crossing it. I got a lot of things wrong in games but I knew how to put my mark on a game. Fergal Horgan didn’t do that yesterday and the game became farcical at times to be honest.

Any game I've refereed including a provincial club semi final I did the exact same thing. You put a marker down, a few early cards if needed

sasta le

callaway92 wrote: »

They’re probably preparing the Manor for this weekend as I write this.

Whats the limit on gatherings?

mountgomery burns

Don't think the ref had a bad game at all or any bearing on the result.

Limerick well worth the win now and the talk of referees is fairly embarrassing. Well done to them, very impressive again. Won't be their last either, although people need to calm down with their 5 in a row talk etc

Fred Daly

breezy1985 wrote: »

VAR has not stopped any of the debate about the 50/50s so really has changed nothing.

I was surprised though that Hawkeye couldn't decide the possible goal in the Antrim game

What were the two umpires doing.

cave_dweller

I agree, Horgan had a good game. And put to bed all of that silly talk about bias and helping Cahill because of their shared history. He should have given a yellow card to Hegarty and Hannon, but otherwise he was very good.

Waterford will be better again next year, especially with another year of s&c under Cahill. Improving their s&c further is crucial and with O'Mahony back they'll have improved further. They've had a good year and outside of Limerick, will be well able for all of the other teams. I enjoyed watching them and enjoyed the championship overall.

Limerick look ready to dominate for the next few years, but hurling has never been in a better place. Galway, Clare, Tipp, Waterford and Kilkenny will feel like they have a good chance of an All Ireland if things went well for them. Don't forgot, Limerick need only lose one game in the All Ireland series to be out of it. And if they are out of it, everyone else will fancy their chances. Cork have to find a few bits but they could come into it also. Wexford looked exhausted this year but if refreshed they could have a say.

Benny Cake

spaceCreated wrote: »

Every drag Waterford made was blown, you had Limerick players running around with Waterford hurleys, etc which he wouldnt blow "so the game would flow". You cant give frees for one team and it be thought of as an acceptable standard.

Non-existent frees being given.

Being forced to retake a sideline cut because the ball was rolling, weird how he managed to see such things but not hurleys driven in to dangerous areas.

The only time Waterford started getting frees was 10 minutes before half time when it seemed he was blowing for everything, possibly a fitness issue I don't know.

The best part was him shouting at a Waterford player for 30 seconds delaying a restart for God only knows what.

Edit: weird how you didnt mention the drives of the hurley to very dangerous areas

Havent checked in since last night... Still at it I see...:rolleyes:

FintanMcluskey

cave_dweller wrote: »

I agree, Horgan had a good game. And put to bed all of that silly talk about bias and helping Cahill because of their shared history. He should have given a yellow card to Hegarty and Hannon, but otherwise he was very good.

Waterford will be better again next year, especially with another year of s&c under Cahill. Improving their s&c further is crucial and with O'Mahony back they'll have improved further. They've had a good year and outside of Limerick, will be well able for all of the other teams. I enjoyed watching them and enjoyed the championship overall.

Limerick look ready to dominate for the next few years, but hurling has never been in a better place. Galway, Clare, Tipp, Waterford and Kilkenny will feel like they have a good chance of an All Ireland if things went well for them. Don't forgot, Limerick need only lose one game in the All Ireland series to be out of it. And if they are out of it, everyone else will fancy their chances. Cork have to find a few bits but they could come into it also. Wexford looked exhausted this year but if refreshed they could have a say.

How long is the off season this year?

I thought the all Ireland was only 8 months away? Don’t see much strength and conditioning been done in a short off season

Realistically Galway and Tipp are the only challengers but unfortunately many of the big guys are hitting or are over 30.

C__MC

Given the heights of 12, 13 and 14 finals, the last 6 finals have been very poor
2018 had an exciting finish but limerick controlled it up until nearly injury time.

mountgomery burns

The 2012 final was awful. And I mean both the draw and replay.

cave_dweller

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

How long is the off season this year?

I thought the all Ireland was only 8 months away? Don’t see much strength and conditioning been done in a short off season

Realistically Galway and Tipp are the only challengers but unfortunately many of the big guys are hitting or are over 30.

It's short yes, but Waterford are one year down the road with Cahill and will have another 6 months before championship. A lot of work can be done in that period.

Personally, I think Galway and Clare (if they get the few guys back) will be big challengers next year.

terryrogers

spaceCreated wrote: »

Horgan has been consistent in giving any team Waterford play massive beneficial decisions and ignoring extremely dodgy "tackles" and "accidents". Theres a reason before the match we were saying that Horgan would make extremely unusual decisions benefiting Limerick, so either we're psychic or theres a trend.

Whats hilarious is that I know a former Gaa referee who would defend any kind of decision made by an ref but he draws the line at Horgan. But hey ignore everything and keep up there on your high horse.

It is an honour to ref the biggest match in hurling and everyone in Waterford hopes he never refs one of our games again, he can rest happy in consistently making some of the most unusual and baffling decisions I've ever seen. It seems to be unfair for an entire county to hope for a fair ref, and then get lambasted for being critical of a horrible performance.

What on earth is going on with all the ref bashing in this forum? You'd swear the game was decided by the ref with all the whinging going on, it wouldn't have mattered if Michael wadding reffed the game even, Limerick were that much better. Horgan had decent game, he made errors but didn't favour either team.

If the Waterford folks who are complaining remove the blue tinted glasses they may realise that Waterford played as cynically against KK in the semi as they proclaim Limerick did yesterday. Especially when they went ahead in the second half against KK they coughed up a heap of frees to break KK's momentum. They also played on the edge, e.g. Barron's head shot on Donnelly. Scores from frees in that game was 13-6 in KKs favour I believe.

The simple fact is cynical play pays and ALL TEAMS do it, and to different levels dependent on the referee. Limerick are far superior at finding men in space unmarked and evade tackles (and frees) more than anyone else does.

Someone did a piece on Tipp after last year's All Ireland where it showed that they gave up more frees than their opponents in nearly every game, which was a marked difference from their playing style in previous years. It played a big part in them winning the title.

formerlyET

cave_dweller wrote: »

It's short yes, but Waterford are one year down the road with Cahill and will have another 6 months before championship. A lot of work can be done in that period.

Personally, I think Galway and Clare (if they get the few guys back) will be big challengers next year.

Even if Clare's forwards come back, Clare don't have the defenders.

formerlyET

The Twin Towers of Seanie McGrath and Joe Deane will come out of retirement and sort these Limerick boys out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAjY2C7H1Nk&ab_channel=officialgaa

FintanMcluskey

cave_dweller wrote: »

It's short yes, but Waterford are one year down the road with Cahill and will have another 6 months before championship. A lot of work can be done in that period.

Personally, I think Galway and Clare (if they get the few guys back) will be big challengers next year.

Hopefully it’s competitive it will be great for us neutrals.

I don’t see it for next year though, it’s to short a time frame to bridge the gap.

FintanMcluskey

formerlyET wrote: »

Even if Clare's forwards come back, Clare don't have the defenders.

No they don’t.

And Galway don’t have the forwards even if they do have the defenders and midfield

Spanish Johnny

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No they don’t.

And Galway don’t have the forwards even if they do have the defenders and midfield

Conor Whelan, Joe Canning, Brian Concannon, Cathal Mannion and Joseph Cooney as an option up there? Poor enough options alright.

crossman47

cave_dweller wrote: »

I agree, Horgan had a good game. And put to bed all of that silly talk about bias and helping Cahill because of their shared history. He should have given a yellow card to Hegarty and Hannon, but otherwise he was very good.

Waterford will be better again next year, especially with another year of s&c under Cahill. Improving their s&c further is crucial and with O'Mahony back they'll have improved further. They've had a good year and outside of Limerick, will be well able for all of the other teams. I enjoyed watching them and enjoyed the championship overall.

Limerick look ready to dominate for the next few years, but hurling has never been in a better place. Galway, Clare, Tipp, Waterford and Kilkenny will feel like they have a good chance of an All Ireland if things went well for them. Don't forgot, Limerick need only lose one game in the All Ireland series to be out of it. And if they are out of it, everyone else will fancy their chances. Cork have to find a few bits but they could come into it also. Wexford looked exhausted this year but if refreshed they could have a say.

Terrible to think improving S&C is seen as the imperative.