All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020

BloodyBill

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

There is no hope of anyone catching Limerick by next July.

Each players conditioning is staggering for an amateur team. I’ve never seen anything like it. They are better conditioned than many pro rugby and soccer players.

There well conditioned but they are not near the level of pro rugby. Power wise and size they dwarf other hurling teams but the GAA was way behind in conditioning for years. Back in 1994 when I was in Ard Scoil some of us did weights because the rugby fellas were doing it.
The more muscle the less chance of injury for you..it also makes you faster when done properly . But they are no where near rugby pros..Soccer players weigh less than 80kgs....no comparison...its cardio and quickness and speed

mohawk

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

There is no hope of anyone catching Limerick by next July.

Each players conditioning is staggering for an amateur team. I’ve never seen anything like it. They are better conditioned than many pro rugby and soccer players.

Of course Limerick can be caught by next July. Galway can definitely do it. It’s very hard to have back to back All-Ireland’s especially the short turnaround from this season to next season.

Teams bring their A Game playing against the current All-Ireland Champions and the likes of Tipp will be more then happy to bring Limerick a reality check.

Two All Ireland’s is beyond the wildest dreams for many in Limerick. Can the team keep the hunger going to drive on and improve?
Also back to summer hurling next year.

crossman47

kilkenny34 wrote: »

A real bore of a final. Sometimes I miss the 90s hurling...the clash of the ash,the ball being in play for a few minutes on end. The game today is poor in my opinion,the ball is never in play. A typical score nowadays a short puck out to a loose man,who solos up a bit and gives it to another loose man who points easily from midfield....and we go again.Iv noticed the atmosphere at matches is alot poorer in the last few years,no clash of the ash etc.Itd such a robotic game now,really need to get a heavier ball too.People can say I'm old fashioned,I'm 33 and find hurling is alot more boring now than whenever I have been watching it.

I'm much older but fully agree with you. Kilkenny and now Limerick have changed the game to a much more physical level.

donfers

carq wrote: »

We had concern with Horgan before / And after the KK game too which we won.

Limerick would likely have won anyway but Limericks

John Mullane could have been ref yesterday and Limerick would have won

JeffKenna

donfers wrote: »

John Mullane could have been ref yesterday and Limerick would have won

Not so sure, you start pulling Limerick up on some of their "tackling" and it's a different ball game.

donfers

JeffKenna wrote: »

Not so sure, you start pulling Limerick up on some of their "tackling" and it's a different ball game.

Nope I hereby label a lot of this nonsense about cynical/dirty play as "the McCaw effect" - when one team is clearly superior to others, the losing team(s) will often cite illegality to save face. This is the case here and points to how far Limerick are ahead of the rest currently. That's not to say that they are unbeatable of course and on any given day in any sporting content a shock or surprise can happen so talk of them winning multiple all-irelands in a row is premature.

JeffKenna

JeffKenna wrote: »

Not so sure, you start pulling Limerick up on some of their "tackling" and it's a different ball game.

Tbf, even the commentators noted Limerick essentially stopped giving away score-able frees after the second half and still shut down Waterford's scoring ability. 24 points from play in an All Ireland final is great going.

On the cynicism side of things, in 2007 I was directly in front of where Eddie Brennan "welcomed" Hickey into the final so you'll forgive me for not really buying the argument Limerick are any worse than any other team of the last 2 decades at it. Tyrell's autobiography is a good read for anyone who wants to know the extent that that Kilkenny side went to find the edge in games.

bennyl10

JeffKenna wrote: »

Not so sure, you start pulling Limerick up on some of their "tackling" and it's a different ball game.

insane take

Dominate every single facet of the game, but yes it's all on the referee

JeffKenna

bennyl10 wrote: »

insane take

Dominate every single facet of the game, but yes it's all on the referee

I didn't say they'd win but to say a different ref would make no difference is ridiculous. Limerick could easily have been down to 14 men at 20 minutes and then it's a very different ball game.

benji79

Limerick would need to have been down to about 12 men to even it up yesterday. They were that far ahead

FintanMcluskey

Tombo2001 wrote: »

This always happens after all ireland final day; last year it was "Tipp look unbeatable, theyll do several in a row now"...... Its only a year since this Limerick team was beaten by a Kilkenny team that everyone is now saying is full of mediocre players that isnt a patch on what they had ten years ago.

My own view is that despite the scoreline, yesterdays game was a better contest than last years final. A lot went right for Limerick yesterday - key goal chances for Waterford didnt go in, a key Waterford player went off injured, the ref missed some bad tackles that could have turned the game if they'd been viewed differently (unlike last years final).

They are worthy champions and the best team in the country, but by no means unbeatable.

The only issue is they haven’t been beaten this year!

The age of the squad is possibly the youngest in the championship.

For such a young team to dominate games and win man vs man battles they way they do is extraordinary.

Don’t remember them being behind in any game this year?

benji79

Would a regular year with championship played in summer months in hard ground help other teams close the gap? Would the physicality elements be somewhat negated? Or is it all the one?

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The only issue is they haven’t been beaten this year!

The age of the squad is possibly the youngest in the championship.

For such a young team to dominate games and win man vs man battles they way they do is extraordinary.

Don’t remember them being behind in any game this year?

They were 5 or more points behind to Galway in the first half of the semi final.
Congrats to Limerick, well deserved winners.

formerlyET

Cahill on the black card:

Kyle Hayes and William O’Donoghue both understandably took yellow cards rather than give their man a clear run on goal.

Cahill thinks it is time hurling followed Gaelic football in adopting stricter punishment for cynical play.

"I know we toyed with the idea of the black card and the sin-bin there earlier in the year and I wasn’t maybe in favour of it,.'

"But I think now, not just today, but throughout the course of our championship this year that it is something that has to be looked at."

mountgomery burns

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The only issue is they haven’t been beaten this year!

The age of the squad is possibly the youngest in the championship.

For such a young team to dominate games and win man vs man battles they way they do is extraordinary.

Don’t remember them being behind in any game this year?

Waterford led the Munster final shortly before the second water break.

formerlyET

It's definitely a good thing Limerick won the All-Ireland and that Waterford made the final - we need more of a spread of a winners and competitors. But we also have to protect the integrity of the game. The football cynicism that's creeping in has to be addressed.

JeffKenna

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the cynicism side of things, in 2007 I was directly in front of where Eddie Brennan "welcomed" Hickey into the final so you'll forgive me for not really buying the argument Limerick are any worse than any other team of the last 2 decades at it. Tyrell's autobiography is a good read for anyone who wants to know the extent that that Kilkenny side went to find the edge in games.

I dunno, off the top of my head I'm finding it hard to remember players groins being targeted but maybe you're right, every team are at it.

carq

donfers wrote: »

John Mullane could have been ref yesterday and Limerick would have won

Maybe so.
But how much of limericks good play has a foundation in dubious tactics in winning the ball in the first place ? I think Sky mentioned before the game that they had 1-30 in the championship from 'turnovers'.

How much of Waterford's bad play was of a result of these tactics being implemented on them?
Of course limerick pressure legally a lot of the time, but a lot of it illegally too.

The Gleeson incident in the first half was a good example. No free given.
limerick break with the ball and score a point. 2 point swing.

Dessie Hutchinson getting dragged down running in on goal. No yellow. Carte blanche to continue.


Limerick would likely have won cleanly given their attacking play, by how much - hard to know but i think they did themselves a disservice yesterday.

Swamp_Cat

threeball wrote: »

Well you weren't paying much attention then

Or maybe, just maybe he accepts that hurling & camogie are different. just slightly but different games all the same. saw more i like in that camogie team than I've seen from the KK hurlers outside a few quarters.

breezy1985

I love how suddenly in the rose tinted brains of some on here hurling up until a few years ago was a game played by saints and angels.

breezy1985

benji79 wrote: »

Would a regular year with championship played in summer months in hard ground help other teams close the gap? Would the physicality elements be somewhat negated? Or is it all the one?

All the one. Best team won

Swamp_Cat

thelad95 wrote: »

Hurling has become a shootout in many ways and honestly it's not that exciting as a shootout.

Limerick have gone through the provincial final, All Ireland semi final and All Ireland final without scoring a goal or even looking like scoring one. They seem happy to just slowly suffocate opponents and I don't really think it makes for a great spectacle to tell the truth.

Picking points off time and again from between the 45 and 65 with a decent enough scattering of wides in between as well. Yawn.

Shootouts are boring but to each their own. I don't enjoy watching LK much of the time but i think that's just because they make it look so easy it can get frustrating. But they are deserving winners without a doubt. congrats

formerlyET

breezy1985 wrote: »

I love how suddenly in the rose tinted brains of some on here hurling up until a few years ago was a game played by saints and angels.

Who is arguing that? Or would you be fond of changing the argument to suit your own biases?

A straw man argument creates the illusion of engaging or refuting a proposition through the replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and refuting that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

breezy1985

formerlyET wrote: »

Who is arguing that? Or would you be fond of changing the argument to suit your own biases?

A straw man argument creates the illusion of engaging or refuting a proposition through the replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and refuting that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

Here are just a few all suggesting that cheating and cynicism are things that are only now creeping into the game

formerlyET wrote: »

It's definitely a good thing Limerick won the All-Ireland and that Waterford made the final - we need more of a spread of a winners and competitors. But we also have to protect the integrity of the game. The football cynicism that's creeping in has to be addressed.

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Exactly that, I can remember Offaly in particular in the 90s being full of by today's standards light bodied individuals but being at times exhilarating to watch. Similarly from around the same era (little later) you had prolific forwards like John Mullane and Joe Deane who wouldn't see the ball these days without being sledged out of it. DJ Carey even prob wouldn't have been seen as bulked enough to make a starting 15 in the modern game.

carq wrote: »

Referee's are very ego centric.
They want to be reffing the big games.
Horgan seems to be favoured by the suits for ' letting the game flow'. Other refs will follow suit in this style as they will want the big games.

This 'style' of reffing will always favour the team that fouls the most as we saw yesterday, where 2/5 fouls are called as the team know what the new limit is, and push it.
Holding the arm, the hurley, trips and groin shots go unpunished and the victors get the spoils. Actual rugby tackles on men running towards goal in the semi finals show how little disincentive there is to foul currently.


Onus has to be on the refs to start enforcing the rules. There would be a few ridiculous matches where a record number of frees are called but players would adapt to not foul as much as it would be detrimental to their teams chances of winning. Horgan can then 'let the game flow' with less fouls.


Otherwise this cynicism will feed into other teams who will want success and will see it as the only way to level the playing field to even compete, nevermind win. I wouldn't want to watch that ' product' if that is what Hurling will turn into. Next year will be interesting.

JeffKenna

breezy1985 wrote: »

Here are just a few all suggesting that cheating and cynicism are things that are only now creeping into the game

So you're defending what Limerick did yesterday by saying it was always there?

formerlyET

breezy1985 wrote: »

Here are just a few all suggesting that cheating and cynicism are things that are only now creeping into the game

Nobody made the argument about hurling being full of angels until recently.

So you've hopped off that one. And now back to something else.

Nobody has said it has only just appeared this year.

Creeping does not suggest it's a sudden thing.

Nowhere can I see your phrase 'only now.'

You're making stuff up. If you don't like the topic, don't engage with it. But don't make up stuff.

Is it getting worse? Yes. Has it gotten worse this year? Yes. Noticeably so.

corner back 2

Congratulations to Limerick on reaching levels of begrudgery on here in 2 or 3 years that it took Kilkenny in their prime at least 5 or 6 years to reach (and took down at least 2 good GAA message boards I can think of). Did Limerick commit fouls yesterday? Yes. Should the ref have given them more yellows? Yes. Did it win the match for them? No. 24 points from play was probably the difference in my opinion. Did Kilkenny ruin hurling? No. Will Limerick ruin hurling? Probably not as the game and tactics are always evolving. Waterford had up to eight goal chances according to the Sunday game last night so Limerick are definitely not unbeatable. To suggest that deliberate fouling is winning them games is crazy as it was stopping the stupid fouling that enabled them to stretch away from Waterford. I find it hard to figure out how any hurling fan couldn't recognise their skill levels, ball usage and shooting accuracy as the reasons for their success. Yes this is coupled with physicality but all counties at the top table need to possess physicality these days.

castletownman

Yesterday is only the second time in history that a team managed to hit the thirty point figure in a final. Ironically, Waterford were the losers the last time too, in the 2008 final vs. Kilkenny after what many regard as the greatest ever display. 'Winter hurling' doesn't seem to deter them.

But there is definitely an element of cynicism to this Limerick team that makes it harder to like them as a neutral. They are very robotic in their play at times too, and there is an air of Dublin football level dominance about them.

formerlyET

castletownman wrote: »

They are very robotic in their play at times too, and there is an air of Dublin football level dominance about them.

Dublin are going for 6 all-irelands in a row...

formerlyET

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Quote from Waterford manager after the game:

"I thought Fergal Horgan had a very good game, I felt he refereed the match very well and we have no complaints in that department."

Good editing, kid:

"There was a couple of incidents there you feel would warrant maybe a little bit more stricter punishment for a couple of times we did break the tackle and get through," he said.

"But I thought Fergal Horgan had a very good game, I felt he refereed the match very well and we have no complaints in that department."

Cahill thinks it is time hurling followed Gaelic football in adopting stricter punishment for cynical play.

"I know we toyed with the idea of the black card and the sin-bin there earlier in the year and I wasn’t maybe in favour of it," said Cahill.

"But I think now, not just today, but throughout the course of our championship this year that it is something that has to be looked at."