All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020

vapor trails

If there is one man who makes Politicians, GAA men, Horse racing people, business people get weak at the knee's its JP McManus. He gets treated with absolute reverence in this country. Criticizing him in Limerick is akin to going to Mecca and asking people to rate your drawings of the prophet Muhammad. He has turned Limerick into his own private project and as a result, has upset the 'all things being equal" nature of the sport. He is not even a tax resident of Ireland. I believe he's from Switzerland in that regard. Pity he doesn't just set up "Paiste Og Zurich GAA club".

Ultimately I don't mind private injections of money into GAA teams. But I think it should be lodged into HQ with a narrative of "For the exclusive use of Limerick GAA" then HQ can disperse it down to Limerick. HQ at the end of every season can publish their list of private beneficiaries. So when Limerick wins their all Ireland it's with the caveat of +€2,500,000 private funding, +€300,000 central funding. Only then can Limericks achievements be evaluated for their true merits. GAA teams need to be treated like political parties with full transparency of private benefactors.

Tombo2001

carq wrote: »

Would be good to see the accounts across counties to see what is being put in each both from the GAA and privately.

Waterford had to have a gofundme campaign from supporters just before the all Ireland final to get some money in the coffers. We know there is a black hole there since Davy Fitz left

This is all smoke and mirrors stuff, you are saying things without saying them.

JP McManus was not out on the pitch playing for Limerick, nor did he bring in any new players.

Lots of counties have wealthy backers, Roscommon and Mayo in the football, Kerry also. It doesnt win you all Irelands.

Eoinbmw

15 against 15 no matter how much is in your pocket!
We've gone from being murderers to millionaires since Sunday LOL!
The Begrudgery is mighty!

breezy1985

Tombo2001 wrote: »

This is all smoke and mirrors stuff, you are saying things without saying them.

JP McManus was not out on the pitch playing for Limerick, nor did he bring in any new players.

Lots of counties have wealthy backers, Roscommon and Mayo in the football, Kerry also. It doesnt win you all Irelands.

He is the teams sponsor. Every county has one and some give more than others.
How long have Kerrygold and Supermacs been around giving plenty of money compared to what some other counties get.

Some right ejits trying to claim that it's some sort of Man City situation

vapor trails

Tombo2001 wrote: »

This is all smoke and mirrors stuff, you are saying things without saying them.

JP McManus was not out on the pitch playing for Limerick, nor did he bring in any new players.

Lots of counties have wealthy backers, Roscommon and Mayo in the football, Kerry also. It doesnt win you all Irelands.

Man City was organically going to win 4 Premier League titles between 2011 & 2019 regardless of Abu Dhabi's money. Sheik Mansour wasn't playing center half, was he?

formerlyET

vapor trails wrote: »

Man City was organically going to win 4 Premier League titles between 2011 & 2019 regardless of Abu Dhabi's money. Sheik Mansour wasn't playing center half, was he?

The Premiership has entered the chat.

washman3

vapor trails wrote: »

If there is one man who makes Politicians, GAA men, Horse racing people, business people get weak at the knee's its JP McManus. He gets treated with absolute reverence in this country. Criticizing him in Limerick is akin to going to Mecca and asking people to rate your drawings of the prophet Muhammad. He has turned Limerick into his own private project and as a result, has upset the 'all things being equal" nature of the sport. He is not even a tax resident of Ireland. I believe he's from Switzerland in that regard. Pity he doesn't just set up "Paiste Og Zurich GAA club".

Ultimately I don't mind private injections of money into GAA teams. But I think it should be lodged into HQ with a narrative of "For the exclusive use of Limerick GAA" then HQ can disperse it down to Limerick. HQ at the end of every season can publish their list of private beneficiaries. So when Limerick wins their all Ireland it's with the caveat of +€2,500,000 private funding, +€300,000 central funding. Only then can Limericks achievements be evaluated for their true merits. GAA teams need to be treated like political parties with full transparency of private benefactors.

You obviously know him very well....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

formerlyET

JP McManus has raised over 140 million for charities in the mid-West region.

slegs

JP McManus, dirty play, too big, too many backroom staff..... people are really struggling with the fact that Limerick were just the best team in the country in 2020.

Maybe focus on what your own team needs to sort out

formerlyET

Listen, you can't solely focus on what Limerick did and what the ref didn't do.

If Waterford bury the two really good goal chances they got in the first half and De Burca doesn't get injured - game on. I really liked the look of the replacement (I'd be asking why he wasn't up front and playing as a roving forward to be honest if he can win and spread ball like that). He certainly looked like he was able for the physicality and the demands of that game.

Waterford didn't take the chances they got. Fact.

Yes, there is a problem with cynicism at the moment. When another team can stop a teams game plan for goals and not get punished when dragging down a player then the game is in trouble. If there is a loophole you exploit it, and it's up to the authorities to address it.

But, be honest, did Waterford have the same fight in them as Limerick on the day? No.

Glenomra

As a Clareman I think it's unfair that Limerick's 2 wing forwards are allowed by the GAA to score 12 points between them from open play. That's unfair on counties whose 6 forwards can't even score that much between them. The GAA should introduce a limit on the number of points that an individual player should score. Also the Limerick goalie should be forced to concede a goal in ratio of one to every five shots on goal. Kyle Hayes should not be allowed to cross the half way line. It's not fair on the opposition that he is able to carry the ball into the opposition's half. Nor is it fair that when limerick lost 2 of the full back line this year that their replacements were first class hurlers. In future any such replacements should be only allowed from junior b teams. Its unbelievable that Adare manor should be allowed to sponsor Limerick. Only Avenmore, Aig, Teneo, Elverys, Churchill insurance etc should be allowed to sponsor teams. Also Limerick have too many players over 6 feet tall in their half back line. Consequently, it's's too difficult for the opposition to get the ball into their full forward line. Croke park should insist that at least one of the half back line is 5 feet 8 inches or under. I am sure there's a few more restrictions that we can introduce to stop limerick winning their third all Ireland since 1973.

Large bottle small glass

Jesus can we leave the Man City chat etc at the door.

Limerick are the top team for a number of reasons
1. they set up systems to develop their young hurlers and bring them through. If you are a sports person at all, irrespective of where you are from that is universally a good thing
2. They got a good management team in place to get the most of out the hurlers available. They are part of an evolution on how game is played; the game they play is a millions away from what was being played in the 00's even.

Richie Bennis, Babs Keating and Justin type managers have been replaced with a new breed of manager who replaced 15 against 15 with minimal tactics and an emphasis of instinctive players with an emphasis on coaching, possession, tackling and long range scoring.

I think purists would rather watch Tommy Walsh/Ken etc in full flow in a frantic unstructured match but the question is would they have been even better players with better conditioning and being coached to play to a structured system? I think John Kiely would have a stroke looking at even those two greats above used possession a lot of the time.

That's not a go at Limerick, I'm fascinated at what Kiely etc have done and how they play.

If you want to see how far the game has changed just watch the 2004 All Ireland. Michael Duignan makes two comments about Cork(who were the first team with a running game)
*they should just go long with puck outs, if they are not good enough to win the ball they shouldn't be playing
*they should stop the running and just drive the ball in long to their full forward line

awaywithyou

roverjoyce wrote: »

Its the elephant in the room

Only county with no sponsor!

All expenses paid players holiday - no fundraising needed

All college players get 4 years all expenses paid

Biggest backroom team in hurling

JP is beyond question - why???

Every county in the country has guys who have millions in their back pockets.. many of them contribute to their county maybe not to the same extent as McManus.. Mayo for example have plenty of millionaire backers scattered around the world but as we have seen that doesn’t mean success is guaranteed...

Anyway JP McManus is nearly 70 years old.... he and the rest of the limerick people have seen many many bad days.... I remember him being in Parnell Park 10 years ago when Limerick were relegated to Division 2.. last Sunday is only there 2nd all-Ireland in nearly 50 years.. not exactly total domination stuff

formerlyET

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

Richie Bennis, Babs Keating and Justin type managers have been replaced with a new breed of manager who replaced 15 against 15 with minimal tactics and an emphasis of instinctive players with an emphasis on coaching, possession, tackling and long range scoring.

I think purists would rather watch Tommy Walsh/Ken etc in full flow in a frantic unstructured match but the question is would they have been even better players with better conditioning and being coached to play to a structured system? I think John Kiely would have a stroke looking at even those two greats above used possession a lot of the time.

That's not a go at Limerick, I'm fascinated at what Kiely etc have done and how they play.

The game changes all the time and quick, but it comes from obvious places.

A possession game is nothing new. It's been going this way a number of years. The Limerick management have taken the Kilkenny template (Kinnerk is not even new - look at Mick Dempsey) and taken it to a more cynical level. Have you watched a football match in the last decade?

It's a pic n' mix of Cody/Dempsey and Davy's/Kinnerk short stick passing/running through lines. But Cork had a variant of it earlier with Cunningham. And they weren't the only management teams doing it the last decade, they're just the obvious two. It's evolved out of obvious lines.

breezy1985

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No, but he did bring in Sergio Aguero.

JP ?

JeffKenna

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No, but he did bring in Sergio Aguero.

I don't get what Man City has to do with anything. I mean they went out and bought a load of players, you can't do that in GAA.

Motivator

As a Waterford man this thing about JP putting so much money in to Limerick is laughable. JP puts millions into scholarships for teenagers so they can go to college, does it make them better equipped to face into college/life? Yes it does. Does JP’s financial backing make them smarter? No it doesn’t. Same thing applies to the hurlers. Yes of course whatever backing they get from him will help them achieve what they want but it won’t do it for them. Extra gear and extra fillets of chicken after training doesn’t win all Ireland’s. People will mention the backroom team, Kinnerk and the psychologist have worked with other counties and got success so it isn’t like JP and Limerick have paid millions to get these people in.

Obviously I’d love a Waterford version of JP to help our county team but would it guarantee an All Ireland? No it wouldn’t. JP has been sponsoring Limerick hurling for years now in the form of different shirt sponsors - Drug Free Limerick, Sporting Limerick and now no shirt sponsor. This isn’t a new thing with Limerick and he isn’t the reason they’ve won an All Ireland. Yes, his contribution has helped and helped immensely at that but it isn’t the reason for it.

washman3

Glenomra wrote: »

As a Clareman I think it's unfair that Limerick's 2 wing forwards are allowed by the GAA to score 12 points between them from open play. That's unfair on counties whose 6 forwards can't even score that much between them. The GAA should introduce a limit on the number of points that an individual player should score. Also the Limerick goalie should be forced to concede a goal in ratio of one to every five shots on goal. Kyle Hayes should not be allowed to cross the half way line. It's not fair on the opposition that he is able to carry the ball into the opposition's half. Nor is it fair that when limerick lost 2 of the full back line this year that their replacements were first class hurlers. In future any such replacements should be only allowed from junior b teams. Its unbelievable that Adare manor should be allowed to sponsor Limerick. Only Avenmore, Aig, Teneo, Elverys, Churchill insurance etc should be allowed to sponsor teams. Also Limerick have too many players over 6 feet tall in their half back line. Consequently, it's's too difficult for the opposition to get the ball into their full forward line. Croke park should insist that at least one of the half back line is 5 feet 8 inches or under. I am sure there's a few more restrictions that we can introduce to stop limerick winning their third all Ireland since 1973.

Best post of the thread.....:)

breezy1985

washman3 wrote: »

Best post of the thread.....:)

Brilliant but forgot to mention the new rule need to stop teams from scoring 24 points from play.

On a serious note in regards to the junior B joke one of the big achievements of the academy was to scout players from every club regardless of level as opposed to just the top senior teams.

With Mike Casey injured they lined out with only one Na Piarsaigh player in the starting 15 which sounds crazy given they are maybe the best club team in Ireland

kilkenny34

breezy1985 wrote: »

Brilliant but forgot to mention the new rule need to stop teams from scoring 24 points from play.

On a serious note in regards to the junior B joke one of the big achievements of the academy was to scout players from every club regardless of level as opposed to just the top senior teams.

With Mike Casey injured they lined out with only one Na Piarsaigh player in the starting 15 which sounds crazy given they are maybe the best club team in Ireland

That's amazing that it's only one. Hopefully get to see Na Piarsaigh take on the Shamrocks in the next couple of seasons.

paddy no 11

There's even people in limerick who resent JP being sponsor and think he has had too much influnce over the years - he has been sponsor through a 25 year barren spell, its not like he started pumping money into limerick in 2018

John Kiely is the man responsible for Limerick's success

breezy1985

paddy no 11 wrote: »

There's even people in limerick who resent JP being sponsor and think he has had too much influnce over the years - he has been sponsor through a 25 year barren spell, its not like he started pumping money into limerick in 2018

John Kiely is the man responsible for Limerick's success

25 years is it really that long. Sporting Limerick came in around 15 years ago I think

blue note

paddy no 11 wrote: »

There's even people in limerick who resent JP being sponsor and think he has had too much influnce over the years - he has been sponsor through a 25 year barren spell, its not like he started pumping money into limerick in 2018

John Kiely is the man responsible for Limerick's success

Lots of people are responsible for their success. Including John kiely, jp, the players, their families, their club trainers and administrators, the backroom team.

BloodyBill

vapor trails wrote: »

How come the JP McManus factor is not really mentioned in here? The Dubs face scrutiny for the unfair advantages they receive but in fairness, most of it is transparent (GAA central funding) and built from within (Commercial stuff like AIG). You could see John Mullane was having thinly-veiled pop at Limericks resources saying they have a backroom staff of 20+ on the indo podcast. I think JP's countrywide €3,000 club donation was a prepayment to protect himself if he ever got criticized for turning Limerick GAA into his own private equity sports club. All I'm asking for is complete and utter transparency for every single euro a team gets. That includes a free dinner in the coach house at Adare manor, or 3 night stay in Sandy Lane Barbados.

We are a free Country not communist. JP McManus can spend any amount he wants on Limerick GAA and its nobody's business except his own.

rubbledoubledo

Glenomra wrote: »

As a Clareman I think it's unfair that Limerick's 2 wing forwards are allowed by the GAA to score 12 points between them from open play. That's unfair on counties whose 6 forwards can't even score that much between them. The GAA should introduce a limit on the number of points that an individual player should score. Also the Limerick goalie should be forced to concede a goal in ratio of one to every five shots on goal. Kyle Hayes should not be allowed to cross the half way line. It's not fair on the opposition that he is able to carry the ball into the opposition's half. Nor is it fair that when limerick lost 2 of the full back line this year that their replacements were first class hurlers. In future any such replacements should be only allowed from junior b teams. Its unbelievable that Adare manor should be allowed to sponsor Limerick. Only Avenmore, Aig, Teneo, Elverys, Churchill insurance etc should be allowed to sponsor teams. Also Limerick have too many players over 6 feet tall in their half back line. Consequently, it's's too difficult for the opposition to get the ball into their full forward line. Croke park should insist that at least one of the half back line is 5 feet 8 inches or under. I am sure there's a few more restrictions that we can introduce to stop limerick winning their third all Ireland since 1973.

Well said. The bitterness here against Limerick. We waited from 73 to 2018 for an all Ireland and people said we only scraped it in 18. Sunday was the first day i saw limerick play with intensity from the word go. I expected way better from Waterford, but they did not show up. No Limerick man would have begrudged a Waterford victory Sunday. First it was the ref now its JP. Cant get over it. Limerick are the baddy boys now any way. I still think they need a man up in a box to replay an incident

formerlyET

washman3 wrote: »

Best post of the thread.....:)

Someone help this thread.

On one side, it's limerick guys trying to attack any point that can be read in any negative way towards Limerick because there can't be any points or criticism...

And let's all celebrate a post that's nowhere near approaching humour and makes no sense, because it's a strawman way of dealing with anything, because yay.

On the other side, constant reflection on a ref and issues outside the match.

The match was so cat there's nothing to really chat about.

People talking about Aquero and the prem.

Might be time this thread was plugged.

Boom__Boom

Mehapoy wrote: »

In terms of playing population (hurling) I think Limerick have less than Tipp, Cork and Galway. Bigger than Clare, Waterford and Kilkenny maybe, probably about right for where they are on roll of honour etc. Probably Kilkenny are the biggest outliers in terms of punching above their weight.
Improvement in Limerick city hurling participation is vital in sustaining an upturn as it has the population and west Limerick is an untapped resource also. The academy structures are bring through some west Limerick players to the u20s and minors in recent years. Plenty more to be done in Limerick.

Number of registered hurling teams 2019

Underage Adult Under 21 Total

Cork 950 217 99 1266
Dublin 912 113 21 1046
Tipperary 544 120 55 719
Galway 401 105 38 544
Limerick 354 85 37 476
Waterford 395 76 4 475
Clare 351 70 32 453
Kilkenny 319 86 36 441
Wexford 294 93 37 424
Kildare 272 27 12 311
Meath 232 43 15 290
Antrim 165 47 9 221
Laois 139 52 13 204
Offaly 144 42 14 200
Kerry 132 23 9 164
Westmeath 82 32 10 124
Carlow 83 20 8 111
Wicklow 89 21 1 111
Donegal 85 10 8 103
Down 71 19 7 97
Derry 68 13 6 87
Louth 73 6 0 79
Armagh 56 8 2 66
Mayo 56 6 3 65
Roscommon 46 13 5 64
Sligo 55 7 1 63
Tyrone 33 5 1 39
Monaghan 27 8 0 35
Fermanagh 30 2 1 33
Cavan 26 2 0 28
Longford 24 4 0 28
Leitrim 10 4 0 14


Cork given their numbers are the greatest hurling underachievers in the GAA. I really think these numbers have been vital in terms of keeping Cork somewhat in touch in terms of competitiveness in terms of the top table.
Kilkenny look like the overachievers.

Biggest thing for me is the big number of Dublin underage teams.

When you compare the underage, U21 and adult teams in Dublin versus Cork (pretty much the same number of underage teams, yet Dublin have a quarter of the teams at U21 level and a half at adult level) it looks very much like the increased participation numbers at underage haven't fed through to adult level yet. [Also Cork's ratios in terms of underage/U21/adult is very similar to most of the other Liam McCarthy counties, so its clearly Dublin which is out-of-whack here]

Down the line I think is has to be only a matter of time before these underage number start to have an impact at senior level, especially when you consider the forecasted increases in population for Dublin . The big question is how soon this will be.

Whats the story with U21 level in Waterford? 4 registered teams seems like madness.

Seems to be a fairly strong correlation between number of teams versus Tier

It would be interesting to see the growth versus decline in the number of teams in various counties over the years. I did have a look to see if I could find older figures but the oldest GAA financial accounts (which is where these figures were taken from) I could find online were 2017 so the change only covers 2 years between 2017 and 2019 which isn't really ideal in terms of drawing conclusions about overall trends. The big thing was that in these 2 years it was at underage where the vast majority of these changes took place.

Number of registered hurling teams 2017

Underage Adult Under 21 Total

Cork 788 228 92 1108
Dublin 755 120 23 898
Tipperary 480 126 56 662
Galway 392 108 40 540
Limerick 345 91 35 471
Wexford 295 85 34 414
Kilkenny 271 90 36 397
Waterford 291 78 26 395
Clare 281 69 27 377
Kildare 207 29 12 248
Laois 154 57 16 227
Antrim 148 47 12 207
Meath 141 37 17 195
Offaly 124 47 12 183
Kerry 121 22 8 151
Westmeath 87 32 11 130
Wicklow 93 25 1 119
Carlow 88 19 6 113
Donegal 80 7 5 92
Down 62 18 5 85
Derry 61 12 5 78
Louth 62 5 1 68
Roscommon 45 14 5 64
Mayo 49 6 4 59
Sligo 45 7 2 54
Tyrone 46 6 1 53
Armagh 40 7 1 48
Monaghan 22 8 0 30
Fermanagh 20 2 1 23
Longford 18 4 1 23
Cavan 18 1 0 19
Leitrim 15 4 0 19


Change in number of registered hurling teams between 2017 and 2019

Underage Adult Under 21 Total

Cork 162 -11 7 158
Dublin 157 -7 -2 148
Meath 91 6 -2 95
Waterford 104 -2 -22 80
Clare 70 1 5 76
Kildare 65 -2 0 63
Tipperary 64 -6 -1 57
Kilkenny 48 -4 0 44
Armagh 16 1 1 18
Offaly 20 -5 2 17
Antrim 17 0 -3 14
Kerry 11 1 1 13
Down 9 1 2 12
Donegal 5 3 3 11
Louth 11 1 -1 11
Fermanagh 10 0 0 10
Wexford -1 8 3 10
Cavan 8 1 0 9
Derry 7 1 1 9
Sligo 10 0 -1 9
Mayo 7 0 -1 6
Limerick 9 -6 2 5
Longford 6 0 -1 5
Monaghan 5 0 0 5
Galway 9 -3 -2 4
Roscommon 1 -1 0 0
Carlow -5 1 2 -2
Leitrim -5 0 0 -5
Westmeath -5 0 -1 -6
Wicklow -4 -4 0 -8
Tyrone -13 -1 0 -14
Laois -15 -5 -3 -23


I would love to see what sort of numbers Dublin had historically especially given the bit below from the Dublin annual report last week.

At GoGames level (U8 to U12) we are +69% since 2008 in Football, and the equivalent in Hurling terms is +119%. As an addendum to these ratios is to look at the percentage participation in Hurling versus Football. In 2008 for every 100 boys 64 played Hurling, and in 2020 the number was 89.

The bit about the participation rate versus football is astonishing - going from 2/3s to 90% says a world.

formerlyET

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Number of registered hurling teams 2019

Underage Adult Under 21 Total

Cork 950 217 99 1266
Dublin 912 113 21 1046
Tipperary 544 120 55 719
Galway 401 105 38 544
Limerick 354 85 37 476
Waterford 395 76 4 475
Clare 351 70 32 453
Kilkenny 319 86 36 441
Wexford 294 93 37 424
Kildare 272 27 12 311
Meath 232 43 15 290
Antrim 165 47 9 221
Laois 139 52 13 204
Offaly 144 42 14 200
Kerry 132 23 9 164
Westmeath 82 32 10 124
Carlow 83 20 8 111
Wicklow 89 21 1 111
Donegal 85 10 8 103
Down 71 19 7 97
Derry 68 13 6 87
Louth 73 6 0 79
Armagh 56 8 2 66
Mayo 56 6 3 65
Roscommon 46 13 5 64
Sligo 55 7 1 63
Tyrone 33 5 1 39
Monaghan 27 8 0 35
Fermanagh 30 2 1 33
Cavan 26 2 0 28
Longford 24 4 0 28
Leitrim 10 4 0 14


Cork given their numbers are the greatest hurling underachievers in the GAA. I really think these numbers have been vital in terms of keeping Cork somewhat in touch in terms of competitiveness in terms of the top table.
Kilkenny look like the overachievers.

Biggest thing for me is the big number of Dublin underage teams.

When you compare the underage, U21 and adult teams in Dublin versus Cork (pretty much the same number of underage teams, yet Dublin have a quarter of the teams at U21 level and a half at adult level) it looks very much like the increased participation numbers at underage haven't fed through to adult level yet. [Also Cork's ratios in terms of underage/U21/adult is very similar to most of the other Liam McCarthy counties, so its clearly Dublin which is out-of-whack here]

Down the line I think is has to be only a matter of time before these underage number start to have an impact at senior level, especially when you consider the forecasted increases in population for Dublin . The big question is how soon this will be.

Whats the story with U21 level in Waterford? 4 registered teams seems like madness.

Seems to be a fairly strong correlation between number of teams versus Tier

It would be interesting to see the growth versus decline in the number of teams in various counties over the years. I did have a look to see if I could find older figures but the oldest GAA financial accounts (which is where these figures were taken from) I could find online were 2017 so the change only covers 2 years between 2017 and 2019 which isn't really ideal in terms of drawing conclusions about overall trends. The big thing was that in these 2 years it was at underage where the vast majority of these changes took place.

Number of registered hurling teams 2017

Underage Adult Under 21 Total

Cork 788 228 92 1108
Dublin 755 120 23 898
Tipperary 480 126 56 662
Galway 392 108 40 540
Limerick 345 91 35 471
Wexford 295 85 34 414
Kilkenny 271 90 36 397
Waterford 291 78 26 395
Clare 281 69 27 377
Kildare 207 29 12 248
Laois 154 57 16 227
Antrim 148 47 12 207
Meath 141 37 17 195
Offaly 124 47 12 183
Kerry 121 22 8 151
Westmeath 87 32 11 130
Wicklow 93 25 1 119
Carlow 88 19 6 113
Donegal 80 7 5 92
Down 62 18 5 85
Derry 61 12 5 78
Louth 62 5 1 68
Roscommon 45 14 5 64
Mayo 49 6 4 59
Sligo 45 7 2 54
Tyrone 46 6 1 53
Armagh 40 7 1 48
Monaghan 22 8 0 30
Fermanagh 20 2 1 23
Longford 18 4 1 23
Cavan 18 1 0 19
Leitrim 15 4 0 19


Change in number of registered hurling teams between 2017 and 2019

Underage Adult Under 21 Total

Cork 162 -11 7 158
Dublin 157 -7 -2 148
Meath 91 6 -2 95
Waterford 104 -2 -22 80
Clare 70 1 5 76
Kildare 65 -2 0 63
Tipperary 64 -6 -1 57
Kilkenny 48 -4 0 44
Armagh 16 1 1 18
Offaly 20 -5 2 17
Antrim 17 0 -3 14
Kerry 11 1 1 13
Down 9 1 2 12
Donegal 5 3 3 11
Louth 11 1 -1 11
Fermanagh 10 0 0 10
Wexford -1 8 3 10
Cavan 8 1 0 9
Derry 7 1 1 9
Sligo 10 0 -1 9
Mayo 7 0 -1 6
Limerick 9 -6 2 5
Longford 6 0 -1 5
Monaghan 5 0 0 5
Galway 9 -3 -2 4
Roscommon 1 -1 0 0
Carlow -5 1 2 -2
Leitrim -5 0 0 -5
Westmeath -5 0 -1 -6
Wicklow -4 -4 0 -8
Tyrone -13 -1 0 -14
Laois -15 -5 -3 -23


I would love to see what sort of numbers Dublin had historically especially given the bit below from the Dublin annual report last week.



The bit about the participation rate versus football is astonishing - going from 2/3s to 90% says a world.

Thread saved!

formerlyET

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Number of registered hurling teams 2019

[/TABLE]

Cork given their numbers are the greatest hurling underachievers in the GAA. I really think these numbers have been vital in terms of keeping Cork somewhat in touch in terms of competitiveness in terms of the top table.
Kilkenny look like the overachievers.

Biggest thing for me is the big number of Dublin underage teams.

When you compare the underage, U21 and adult teams in Dublin versus Cork (pretty much the same number of underage teams, yet Dublin have a quarter of the teams at U21 level and a half at adult level) it looks very much like the increased participation numbers at underage haven't fed through to adult level yet. [Also Cork's ratios in terms of underage/U21/adult is very similar to most of the other Liam McCarthy counties, so its clearly Dublin which is out-of-whack here]

Down the line I think is has to be only a matter of time before these underage number start to have an impact at senior level, especially when you consider the forecasted increases in population for Dublin . The big question is how soon this will be.

Whats the story with U21 level in Waterford? 4 registered teams seems like madness.

Seems to be a fairly strong correlation between number of teams versus Tier

It would be interesting to see the growth versus decline in the number of teams in various counties over the years. I did have a look to see if I could find older figures but the oldest GAA financial accounts (which is where these figures were taken from) I could find online were 2017 so the change only covers 2 years between 2017 and 2019 which isn't really ideal in terms of drawing conclusions about overall trends. The big thing was that in these 2 years it was at underage where the vast majority of these changes took place.

I would love to see what sort of numbers Dublin had historically especially given the bit below from the Dublin annual report last week.



The bit about the participation rate versus football is astonishing - going from 2/3s to 90% says a world.

The only thing about a focus on numbers participation is it doesn't focus on quality. So while there might be more teams or participation or growth in club numbers - in terms of actual quality to feed or enhance inter county quality (this is an inter county thread), often less clubs in a competion or the bringing together of two clubs can enhance the quality or standard in an underage system and what's being produced. Iron sharpens iron so to speak.

Many people in Tipp bemoan the number of senior clubs as too many and that it hurts the standard of play and there's too many walkovers for top teams.

But when the numbers are so great - population wise - and your player numbers go up - then such a pick is more likely to find the 1% genetic freaks to pare into top quality. So it just might be a waiting game for Dublin.

breezy1985

formerlyET wrote: »

Someone help this thread.

On one side, it's limerick guys trying to attack any point that can be read in any negative way towards Limerick because there can't be any points or criticism...

And let's all celebrate a post that's nowhere near approaching humour and makes no sense, because it's a strawman way of dealing with anything, because yay.

On the other side, constant reflection on a ref and issues outside the match.

The match was so cat there's nothing to really chat about.

People talking about Aquero and the prem.

Might be time this thread was plugged.

Man you love referring to anything you don't want to hear as "straw man"