All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020

breezy1985

JeffKenna wrote: »

So you're defending what Limerick did yesterday by saying it was always there?

I don't see what there is to defend

Dyr

corner back 2 wrote: »

Congratulations to Limerick on reaching levels of begrudgery on here in 2 or 3 years that it took Kilkenny in their prime at least 5 or 6 years to reach (and took down at least 2 good GAA message boards I can think of). Did Limerick commit fouls yesterday? Yes. Should the ref have given them more yellows? Yes. Did it win the match for them? No. 24 points from play was probably the difference in my opinion. Did Kilkenny ruin hurling? No. Will Limerick ruin hurling? Probably not as the game and tactics are always evolving. Waterford had up to eight goal chances according to the Sunday game last night so Limerick are definitely not unbeatable. To suggest that deliberate fouling is winning them games is crazy as it was stopping the stupid fouling that enabled them to stretch away from Waterford. I find it hard to figure out how any hurling fan couldn't recognise their skill levels, ball usage and shooting accuracy as the reasons for their success. Yes this is coupled with physicality but all counties at the top table need to possess physicality these days.

Arrah it was the fouls, I've never seen anything like it in my life. Limerick giving the other team handy scores from frees is the most cynical thing I've ever seen.

And so on and so forth

threeball

People are saying a heavier sliothar would sort out the long range scoring but I think its actually the opposite. A heavy ball will carry almost as far and fly truer as its affected less by the breeze. The size 5 sliothar also requires less skill to control thyan a kids Smart touch. When it hits your hurl it just dies right on it, the smart touch will bounce a couple of feet off the hurl if its coming at pace. Its also far more difficult to point from range as it doesn't have the mass to carry long distance and it drifts because its light. You need something that makes shooting from range a bit of a lottery and punish poor first touch.

I'm not saying a Smart touch is the answer but a lighter ball is a better solution than a heavier one. A heavy one will push the game towards big men with long hurls shooting from distance with even more regularity. You want to reward the guy with the outstanding control and great wrists not punish them.

blue note

If you sort out the long range scoring it'll mean that if you crowd out your own defence you'll stop your opponents from scoring. You'd end up with games like football where teams are passing it around the halfway line unchallenged trying to find a way through the defence.

Also, the long range points look great. Aussie first point yesterday is something I love to see.

JeffKenna

JeffKenna wrote: »

I dunno, off the top of my head I'm finding it hard to remember players groins being targeted but maybe you're right, every team are at it.

If you want to go into the specific incidents, we could as easily argue for the red cards for Waterford when Lynch and Finn were struck in the head in the second half. It's pointless though, because in any game you'll get these calls and it would change the game fundamentally if every one of them led to a card.

Tombo2001

corner back 2 wrote: »

Congratulations to Limerick on reaching levels of begrudgery on here in 2 or 3 years that it took Kilkenny in their prime at least 5 or 6 years to reach (and took down at least 2 good GAA message boards I can think of). Did Limerick commit fouls yesterday? Yes. Should the ref have given them more yellows? Yes. Did it win the match for them? No. 24 points from play was probably the difference in my opinion. Did Kilkenny ruin hurling? No. Will Limerick ruin hurling? Probably not as the game and tactics are always evolving. Waterford had up to eight goal chances according to the Sunday game last night so Limerick are definitely not unbeatable. To suggest that deliberate fouling is winning them games is crazy as it was stopping the stupid fouling that enabled them to stretch away from Waterford. I find it hard to figure out how any hurling fan couldn't recognise their skill levels, ball usage and shooting accuracy as the reasons for their success. Yes this is coupled with physicality but all counties at the top table need to possess physicality these days.

Is the second time you've posted this?

Anyway, not comparing apples with apples. At all.

The begrudgery against Kilkenny was largely because they were so dominant for so long. Yes there was a bit of the dark arts, but nobody would ever have denied that it was a phenomenally exciting team to watch.

Compare yesterdays game to when Kilkenny played Waterford in the final in 2008 - that game, unlike yesterday, was well and truly over after 15 minutes due to Kilkenny's unreal goal scoring capacity at that time. Which was incredibly exciting to watch.

The seven finals Kilkenny played from 2006 to 2012 were all better to watch than yesterdays game. Even the one sided games in 2007 and 2008.

But it was not a particularly big team (imho). Tommy Walsh, one of the greatest hurler of all time, probably wouldnt get on this Limerick team because he's not tall enough.

breezy1985

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Is the second time you've posted this?

Anyway, not comparing apples with apples. At all.

The begrudgery against Kilkenny was largely because they were so dominant for so long. Yes there was a bit of the dark arts, but nobody would ever have denied that it was a phenomenally exciting team to watch.

Compare yesterdays game to when Kilkenny played Waterford in the final in 2008 - that game, unlike yesterday, was well and truly over after 15 minutes due to Kilkenny's unreal goal scoring capacity at that time. Which was incredibly exciting to watch.

The seven finals Kilkenny played from 2006 to 2012 were all better to watch than yesterdays game. Even the one sided games in 2007 and 2008.

But it was not a particularly big team (imho). Tommy Walsh, one of the greatest hurler of all time, probably wouldnt get on this Limerick team because he's not tall enough.

Someone might want to warn the 5'7" Peter Casey that he cant play for Limerick then given that he is an inch shorter than Tommy



Interesting too that you mention 2008 which was easily the worst final of the 21st century not that the last 2 were great but jeysus even KK fans must have been bored by half time in that one

The_Kew_Tour

The main reasons yesterday game was not exactly game of the century....

The pitch. It was not great before the first final, that game made it a little worse.

Its December and not August.......

All Irelands finals are there to be won. Cork scored no goal in the 99 and 04 final. Did I care as Cork fan? did I feck..

How many games in February and March in the leagues are great games in general. Not huge amount.

formerlyET

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Is the second time you've posted this?

Anyway, not comparing apples with apples. At all.

The begrudgery against Kilkenny was largely because they were so dominant for so long. Yes there was a bit of the dark arts, but nobody would ever have denied that it was a phenomenally exciting team to watch.

Compare yesterdays game to when Kilkenny played Waterford in the final in 2008 - that game, unlike yesterday, was well and truly over after 15 minutes due to Kilkenny's unreal goal scoring capacity at that time. Which was incredibly exciting to watch.

The seven finals Kilkenny played from 2006 to 2012 were all better to watch than yesterdays game. Even the one sided games in 2007 and 2008.

But it was not a particularly big team (imho). Tommy Walsh, one of the greatest hurler of all time, probably wouldnt get on this Limerick team because he's not tall enough.

Hahaha Tommy Walsh would make that Limerick team.

feargale

cson wrote: »

Settle down.

You must have missed the various club celebrations earlier in the year?

Read my post again.

feargale wrote: »

Credit the GAA. Whatever about their supporters at times in 2020, the organisation itself has behaved responsibly and been a shining example to the nation.

ArielAtom

threeball wrote: »

People are saying a heavier sliothar would sort out the long range scoring but I think its actually the opposite. A heavy ball will carry almost as far and fly truer as its affected less by the breeze. The size 5 sliothar also requires less skill to control thyan a kids Smart touch. When it hits your hurl it just dies right on it, the smart touch will bounce a couple of feet off the hurl if its coming at pace. Its also far more difficult to point from range as it doesn't have the mass to carry long distance and it drifts because its light. You need something that makes shooting from range a bit of a lottery and punish poor first touch.

I'm not saying a Smart touch is the answer but a lighter ball is a better solution than a heavier one. A heavy one will push the game towards big men with long hurls shooting from distance with even more regularity. You want to reward the guy with the outstanding control and great wrists not punish them.

Good point, there is also the health and safety aspect as being hit with a heavier sliothar will have a heavier impact and could possibly result in more serious injuries.

FintanMcluskey

breezy1985 wrote: »

Someone might want to warn the 5'7" Peter Casey that he cant play for Limerick then given that he is an inch shorter than Tommy

Peter Casey is not 5”7.

I don’t care what google says

crossman47

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Is the second time you've posted this?

Anyway, not comparing apples with apples. At all.

The begrudgery against Kilkenny was largely because they were so dominant for so long. Yes there was a bit of the dark arts, but nobody would ever have denied that it was a phenomenally exciting team to watch.

Compare yesterdays game to when Kilkenny played Waterford in the final in 2008 - that game, unlike yesterday, was well and truly over after 15 minutes due to Kilkenny's unreal goal scoring capacity at that time. Which was incredibly exciting to watch.

The seven finals Kilkenny played from 2006 to 2012 were all better to watch than yesterdays game. Even the one sided games in 2007 and 2008.

But it was not a particularly big team (imho). Tommy Walsh, one of the greatest hurler of all time, probably wouldnt get on this Limerick team because he's not tall enough.

Yesterday and 2008 were the only two finals I switched off before the end and I've seen every one live or on TV since 1963 (and I'm not a Waterford person).

threeball

blue note wrote: »

If you sort out the long range scoring it'll mean that if you crowd out your own defence you'll stop your opponents from scoring. You'd end up with games like football where teams are passing it around the halfway line unchallenged trying to find a way through the defence.

Also, the long range points look great. Aussie first point yesterday is something I love to see.

You'd still score from halfway with a lighter sliothar but not much further back. You really need teams to engage with a defense, otherwise it just a long range shootout. Bennett hit a a free from inside his own 45 straight over the blackspot. Its ridiculous range to be able to pop a score over regularly.

funkey_monkey

Is the modern hurls with the wider bas not as big, if not bigger effect than the balls?
The sweet spot on the old hurls was a lot smaller

breezy1985

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Peter Casey is not 5”7.

I don’t care what google says

I got it from yesterdays programme. But ya they probably got it from google

Hayes kinda said last night that it got him wrong at 6'5" and that he is an inch taller making him the tallest on the team

Tombo2001

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The main reasons yesterday game was not exactly game of the century....

The pitch. It was not great before the first final, that game made it a little worse.

Its December and not August.......

All Irelands finals are there to be won. Cork scored no goal in the 99 and 04 final. Did I care as Cork fan? did I feck..

How many games in February and March in the leagues are great games in general. Not huge amount.

All fair points, people over react in this situation and dont look at circumstance in enough detail. Its the worst Ive seen Croke Park pitch condition, which was bad for the hurling but actually might make for a closer football final.

Tombo2001

crossman47 wrote: »

Yesterday and 2008 were the only two finals I switched off before the end and I've seen every one live or on TV since 1963 (and I'm not a Waterford person).

Thats fair enough - but I suppose my point is that for the first 15 minutes of that game Kilkenny were electric. Then the game was won.

Yesterdays game, the only really exciting part of it was when Waterford got on top for about 8 minutes at the end of the first half.

threeball

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Is the modern hurls with the wider bas not as big, if not bigger effect than the balls?
The sweet spot on the old hurls was a lot smaller

I thought there was a max bas size but like most rules its not enforced. Patrick Horgans hurl has a bas bigger than most goalies. Not singling him out as most have the same but his is particularly noticeable.

generalgerry

breezy1985 wrote: »

Limerick are the best team in the country. How do I know. Cause people start throwing bitter comments about cynical play

I'm from an non hurling county but I love the sport and I wish both teams well. Limerick we far superior physically, it was almost like men and boys, and they fully deserved their victory. But the two groin strikes should have been punished. If the first one had been sufficiently punished then the second one probably doesn't happen.

Chalk McHugh

Reading through the posts from after the game and it's disappointing to see so many ridiculing Fergal Horgan. I was never a referee and have no connections to any but i rarely if ever criticise a referee as i know how difficult a job it is. It's pretty much impossible to keep all sides satisfied as mistakes will always be made.

I wouldn't have the balls to referee a hurling game as with so much going on at such a fast pace and no real defined tackle it must be a nightmare for any one man to go through that pressure for 70 + minutes. Especially at this highest level with every call scrutinised and criticised by armchair referee's and cowards who wouldn't have the guts to do what the men in black do. Their not perfect by any means. But it's not an exact science being a hurling referee. Never was and never will be. They do it to the best of their ability with no bias or favour and that's good enough for me.

Fair play to Fergal Horgan on having the honour of refereeing the biggest game of all.

benji79

threeball wrote: »

I thought there was a max bas size but like most rules its not enforced. Patrick Horgans hurl has a bas bigger than most goalies. Not singling him out as most have the same but his is particularly noticeable.

There comes a point too where it becomes too big and makes the swing slower

If you get a chance look at a pic of Nickie Quaids hurley. It’s smaller than all the other goalies

I heard he intentionally made it with smaller bas to get better control and precision on the puck outs.

mountgomery burns

benji79 wrote: »

There comes a point too where it becomes too big and makes the swing slower

If you get a chance look at a pic of Nickie Quaids hurley. It’s smaller than all the other goalies

I heard he intentionally made it with smaller bas to get better control and precision on the puck outs.

All keepers use a different Hurley for puckouts

Tombo2001

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Reading through the posts from after the game and it's disappointing to see so many ridiculing Fergal Horgan. I was never a referee and have no connections to any but i rarely if ever criticise a referee as i know how difficult a job it is. It's pretty much impossible to keep all sides satisfied as mistakes will always be made.

I wouldn't have the balls to referee a hurling game as with so much going on at such a fast pace and no real defined tackle it must be a nightmare for any one man to go through that pressure for 70 + minutes. Especially at this highest level with every call scrutinised and criticised by armchair referee's and cowards who wouldn't have the guts to do what the men in black do. Their not perfect by any means. But it's not an exact science being a hurling referee. Never was and never will be. They do it to the best of their ability with no bias or favour and that's good enough for me.

Fair play to Fergal Horgan on having the honour of refereeing the biggest game of all.

Completely agree with this.

A lot of the fouls yesterday, you'd need video analysis to see them. What do people expect. We've seen with VAR what a disaster that is.

baalad

I think there was some cynical fouling on Limericks part and they were fortunate to not be punished for it but i don't think it would have changed the result. There is always Ifs and Buts after any game.

This Limerick side are beatable but they are also the best team in the country right now so beating them is not going to be easy.

Waterford were beaten by the better side but i also think Limerick are receiving far too much credit. Waterford struggled just to get the ball up on the hurl at times and were awful under the highball / in any 50/50.

I am not trying to take anything away from Limerick but i also do not think Waterford were 100% at it yesterday.

Of course Limerick played some part in that but there were so many 50/50 balls that Waterford would get to first but just could not hold the ball or likewise there was instances where they couldnt get the ball up onto the hurl quickly and ended up causing a ruck.

If we replayed the match next Sunday Limerick may well win but i think another 11 point win would be very unlikely! Yesterday they performed but they also had things go their way!

benji79

mountgomery burns wrote: »

All keepers use a different Hurley for puckouts

They don’t. Because it slows down quick puck outs if you’re spending time switching sticks. Most now use one that does all jobs and no need for switching
I’ve watched every one of them in detail this year. Only one of the top keepers who switches is Eoin Murphy, no other goalie at Liam McCarthy level changes hurley for puck out

threeball

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Completely agree with this.

A lot of the fouls yesterday, you'd need video analysis to see them. What do people expect. We've seen with VAR what a disaster that is.

VAR has been a disaster as its been used for ridiculous nit picking calls like ruling out Bamfords goal where his outstretched hand was offside but his body was on and the balls hitting arms from 2ft away been given as penalties but its caught alot of genuine foul play and exonerated others. The game needn't be stopped unless there was genuine foul play like yesterday

seligehgit

threeball wrote: »

VAR has been a disaster as its been used for ridiculous nit picking calls like ruling out Bamfords goal where his outstretched hand was offside but his body was on and the balls hitting arms from 2ft away been given as penalties but its caught alot of genuine foul play and exonerated others. The game needn't be stopped unless there was genuine foul play like yesterday

Gremlins in the system.:D

Second footie related post on the GAA forum?

threeball

seligehgit wrote: »

Gremlins in the system.:D

Second footie related post on the GAA forum?

My second or second in general?

breezy1985

threeball wrote: »

VAR has been a disaster as its been used for ridiculous nit picking calls like ruling out Bamfords goal where his outstretched hand was offside but his body was on and the balls hitting arms from 2ft away been given as penalties but its caught alot of genuine foul play and exonerated others. The game needn't be stopped unless there was genuine foul play like yesterday

VAR has not stopped any of the debate about the 50/50s so really has changed nothing.

I was surprised though that Hawkeye couldn't decide the possible goal in the Antrim game