How will schools be able to go back in September?

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

Can I ask why when a school needs a teacher they hire a temp?
My child had a temp last year who then left because he was offered a perm position at another school. Then they hired another temp.

Secondary schools have a huge shortage. Its been a big issue at our secondary school. My own was weeks without a home Ec teacher and about 3 weeks without an english teacher. Lots of free periods too when the teachers had commitment with exam students.

Any number of reasons, career break, secondment, parental leave, continually extended sick leave could be reasons.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

Its a joke, my god did you get lobotomised:D
Sheesh humour is allowed

As you said to another poster earlier does adding a smiley face make a veiled (not veiled) insult OK?

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

As you said to another poster earlier does adding a smiley face make a veiled (not veiled) insult OK?

there was no smiley on the original joke for that reason and you still toolk offense.

It is interesting how there one rule for you and your cronies to post and another for the rest of us.

MerlinSouthDub

I wouldn't be rushing to open the schools in June, but why not end the school year now and reopen them in August. So, shift the school holidays by one month. It would mean schools could start getting back earlier.

It shouldn't inconvenience teachers as we can't travel abroad anyway.

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

You think that if a teacher decides to leave their post that there won't be someone eager waiting to fill it immediately?

My point is that there would be no shortage of available teachers right now if they were needed.

Make progress or make excuses.

Your point is wrong though, there are posts throughout the country which are not being filled as there are no teachers available. We had 4 vacancies in my school 2 years ago we didnt get filled for months as there was no one to fill them.

khalessi

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I wouldn't be rushing to open the schools in June, but why not end the school year now and reopen them in August. So, shift the school holidays by one month. It would mean schools could start getting back earlier.

It shouldn't inconvenience teachers as we can't travel abroad anyway.

Well I dont take holidays abroad I holiday in Ireland and spend them doing cpd courses, I cant go abroad for various reasons though I would love to.

kandr10

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I think it's likely to do with the terms being offered to subs and temps. If they find something better or more permanent then they are going to go with that position.

Yes there should be a panel of subs available for some occasions but it's shouldn't be the norm for entry level teachers (which it has become for a lot of them).

If there were a large number of permanent teaching positions made available tomorrow then there would not be a major issue filling them because obviously they are more desirable.

It actually isn’t the norm at the moment. There is no panel of subs. There was about 13 years ago but literally those lists are empty and a sub cannot be found for love nor money. We had a several temporary positions that couldn’t be filled that arose because of retirements within the school and maternity. The learning support team had to step in and take turns subbing in these classes, which is grossly unfair to everyone involved - the teachers, the class of kids waiting on a teacher, the kids who are entitled to learning support. Several people have mentioned this to you already on the thread. I’m not sure why you don’t believe us?

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I think it's likely to do with the terms being offered to subs and temps. If they find something better or more permanent then they are going to go with that position.

Yes there should be a panel of subs available for some occasions but it's shouldn't be the norm for entry level teachers (which it has become for a lot of them).

If there were a large number of permanent teaching positions made available tomorrow then there would not be a major issue filling them because obviously they are more desirable.

The INTO have been fighting to get sub panels introduced for a number of years. There was a small trial ongoing this year or planned for next year. Can't remember which.

As regards permanent positions. I personally know of at least three primary schools within the greater Dublin region that had to re-advertise positions twice if not three times last summer. People either no applying or accepting and then turning them down last minute for 'lesser' positions closer to home as that's where they want to be. Maternity positions being left unfilled is more common than it should be. People just couldn't afford to live in Dublin due to the cost of living. You have to ask why so many retired teachers are practically being begged to sub as young teachers at primary level.just weren't/aren't there. I know of a few who lied about being away on holidays as they just want to enjoy their retirement and don't want to be back in the classroom. Lots of favours are pulled in and legs pulled to get them to fill in for days here and there.

downthemiddle

kandr10 wrote: »

It actually isn’t the norm at the moment. There is no panel of subs. There was about 13 years ago but literally those lists are empty and a sub cannot be found for love nor money. We had a several temporary positions that couldn’t be filled that arose because of retirements within the school and maternity. The learning support team had to step in and take turns subbing in these classes, which is grossly unfair to everyone involved - the teachers, the class of kids waiting on a teacher, the kids who are entitled to learning support. Several people have mentioned this to you already on the thread. I’m not sure why you don’t believe us?

She's busy reading a 50 page report at the moment looking for a straw to grasp.

MerlinSouthDub

khalessi wrote: »

Well I dont take holidays abroad I holiday in Ireland and spend them doing cpd courses, I cant go abroad for various reasons though I would love to.

Abroad or not, why couldn't your holidays start one month earlier and finish one month earlier? It seems like a very small ask of teachers in the current environment.

Lyle

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I wouldn't be rushing to open the schools in June, but why not end the school year now and reopen them in August. So, shift the school holidays by one month. It would mean schools could start getting back earlier.

It shouldn't inconvenience teachers as we can't travel abroad anyway.

It's not about the teachers, it's about the Department of Education issuing guidelines and funding and the schools are listed for a September comeback because September is 3 weeks after the scheduled Phase 5 on August 10th. They need all that time to plan and to monitor the disease for three weeks after the planned full reopening of society on August 10th.

Schools are basically Phase 6 but calling it that kinda ruins the 5 Phase Flow for the PR and spinners, and it really is not gonna change. Go listen to Ronan Glynn at the DoH brief earlier, or look for DeGascun rebuking Nabarro this morning. The experts at the top of health and virology seem pretty unanimously staunch that it's just not feasible any faster.

downthemiddle

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The INTO have been fighting to get sub panels introduced for a number of years. There was a small trial ongoing this year or planned for next year. Can't remember which.

There is a pilot scheme for supply panels running in Dublin, Kildare, Cork and Galway this year. Each panel consists of three teachers covering a minimum of seven schools. The Dublin supply panel received one applicant for three positions.

MerlinSouthDub

Lyle wrote: »

It's not about the teachers, it's about the Department of Education issuing guidelines and funding and the schools are listed for a September comeback because September is 3 weeks after the scheduled Phase 5 on August 10th. They need all that time to plan and to monitor the disease for three weeks after the planned full reopening of society on August 10th.

Schools are basically Phase 6 but calling it that kinda ruins the 5 Phase Flow for the PR and spinners, and it really is not gonna change. Go listen to Ronan Glynn at the DoH brief earlier, or look for DeGascun rebuking Nabarro this morning. The experts at the top of health and virology seem pretty unanimously staunch that it's just not feasible any faster.

Well that's not true at all. There is absolutely no evidence that schools need to wait until September from an epidemiological perspective.They are just saying September because they don't want them to go back in June, which is fair enough. They are operating based on the traditional school year but they need to think outside the box a little bit

khalessi

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Well that's not true at all. There is absolutely no evidence that schools need to wait until September from an epidemicological perspective.They are just saying September because they don't want them to go back in June, which is fair enough. They are operating based on the traditional school year but they need to think outside the box a little bit

i think everybodys holidays should be cancelled this year in every job and we should all work 6 or 7 day weeks to help pay back the borrowing that the country has had to do.

MerlinSouthDub

khalessi wrote: »

i think everybodys holidays should be cancelled this year in every job and we should all work 6 or 7 day weeks to help pay back the borrowing that the country has had to do.

Nope. I'm just saying bring the holidays forward by one month. The holidays will be exactly the same length!

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

i think everybodys holidays should be cancelled this year in every job and we should all work 6 or 7 day weeks to help pay back the borrowing that the country has had to do.

This is already happening for some people, some people on covid payment won't accrue annual leave for the time they weren't working even though they couldn't work.

That could be up to half of their annual leave quota for the year just gone.

khalessi

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Nope. I'm just saying bring the holidays forward by one month. The holidays will be exactly the same length!

I understand what you are saying, and I am just saying let everyone give up their holidays and work a 6 or 7 day week to help the country

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

This is already happening for some people, some people on covid payment won't accrue annual leave for the time they weren't working even though they couldn't work.

That could be up to half of their annual leave quota for the year just gone.

Have you read the report yet?

r93kaey5p2izun

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Well that's not true at all. There is absolutely no evidence that schools need to wait until September from an epidemiological perspective.They are just saying September because they don't want them to go back in June, which is fair enough. They are operating based on the traditional school year but they need to think outside the box a little bit

Yet the LC exams couldn't happen in August? Not even the optional ones for those unhappy with calculated grades?

MerlinSouthDub

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

Yet the LC exams couldn't happen in August? Not even the optional ones for those unhappy with calculated grades?

If you can point me to any epidemiological reason why it's ok to go back to school in September but not in August, then I'm happy to read it.

r93kaey5p2izun

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

If you can point me to any epidemiological basis why it's ok to go back to school in September but not in August, then I'm happy to read it.

I don't have any. Have you any evidence of the epidemiological basis why the LC wasn't safe in August but school would be?

daydorunrun

khalessi wrote: »

i think everybodys holidays should be cancelled this year in every job and we should all work 6 or 7 day weeks to help pay back the borrowing that the country has had to do.

Wow you Really are triggered, is it not possible to discuss work arounds for a most unusual set of circumstances without you feeling every possible suggestion isn’t an attack on teachers?

Mrsmum

Or you could cut short the summer holidays but add an extra week to the Oct and Feb midterms ? I think maybe children would love to go back to school asap but by the time Oct rolls round, they will be sick and tired of all the blended learning again.

khalessi

daydorunrun wrote: »

Wow you Really are triggered, is it not possible to discuss work arounds for a most unusual set of circumstances without you feeling every possible suggestion isn’t an attack on teachers?

I didnt take it on an attack on holidays but thank you.
It amazes me how people misinterpret things

ldy4mxonucwsq6

daydorunrun wrote: »

Wow you Really are triggered, is it not possible to discuss work arounds for a most unusual set of circumstances without you feeling every possible suggestion isn’t an attack on teachers?

Defensiveness is usually a symptom of denial or frustration at not being in control.

Hostile environment in this thread though no worthy suggestion/option or any notion that schools will return will be entertained.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Defensiveness is usually a symptom of denial or frustration at not being in control.

Hostile environment in this thread though no worthy suggestion/option or any notion that schools will return will be entertained.

Still waiting for you to answer a simple question.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

downthemiddle wrote: »

Still waiting for you to answer a simple question.

I answered you pages back, not going to answer the same question again.

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Defensiveness is usually a symptom of denial or frustration at not being in control.

Hostile environment in this thread though no worthy suggestion/option or any notion that schools will return will be entertained.

i am not defensive there has been plenty of suggestions abaot reopening schools school by me and many others but generally they are ignored, with grand sweeping responses like that. As you have been told and ignored, every teacher on here would prefert to be teaching in the classroom but why let that get in the way of the narrative in your head.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

i am not defensive there has been plenty of suggestions abaot reopening schools school by me and many others but generally they are ignored, with grand sweeping responses like that. As you have been told and ignored, every teacher on here would prefert to be teaching in the classroom but why let that get in the way of the narrative in your head.

My narrative is to try to be positive, make the most of the awful situation we all find ourselves in.

More and more positive news and reports every day and it looks like we are finally coming out the other side slowly but surely. Its a welcome break from the doom, gloom and fear.

It's like all those things we took for granted are being given back to us bit by bit and it feels good, like I said Christmas morning vibes every time we see a little bit more hope

daydorunrun

khalessi wrote: »

i am not defensive there has been plenty of suggestions abaot reopening schools school by me and many others but generally they are ignored, with grand sweeping responses like that. As you have been told and ignored, every teacher on here would prefert to be teaching in the classroom but why let that get in the way of the narrative in your head.

You have a constant passive aggressive tone. Far too much time on your hands coupled with being accustomed to being the voice that speaks and everyone else should listen.