How will schools be able to go back in September?

CinemaGuy45

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

This is already happening for some people, some people on covid payment won't accrue annual leave for the time they weren't working even though they couldn't work.

That could be up to half of their annual leave quota for the year just gone.

:D:D

Lyle

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Well that's not true at all. There is absolutely no evidence that schools need to wait until September from an epidemiological perspective.They are just saying September because they don't want them to go back in June, which is fair enough. They are operating based on the traditional school year but they need to think outside the box a little bit

On the other side of the coin, they're in a position, because of our school holiday calendar, to take time and be cautious, and the biys and beours from NPHET are taking a cautious approach, as is evident by the fact that they've gone with three weeks between the Phases rather than two. The September reopening gives them that little bit of extra time, along with the DoE. The DoE have a MASSIVE undertaking to pull off here, and individual schools will too.

Shaving a month off it could lead to rushed decisions or a lack of proper preparation and funding and then if something goes wrong and it all has to be shuttered again the situation could be totally bollocksed till Halloween or Christmas. Why not just everybody breathe a bit, wait and see how we go with the Phases and the community transmission level, get a better and broader understanding of the disease as it progresses and potentially mutates and hope ta f*ck there'll be a workable system in place in three months time.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I answered you pages back, not going to answer the same question again.

Really? You have pointed out where it projects this huge pool of teachers for September 2021?
Facts are clearly an alien concept to you. Thinking something doesn't make it a reality.
A number of posters, who are considerably more knowledgeable than you about Irish education, have made factual contributions to this thread. You have responded with an ill informed diatribe based on your own personal bias. I know nothing that I , or any of the other well informed contributors, can say will change your mind at this stage.
In the meantime I will continue to do a job I love to the best of my ability and hopefully we will be in a position to reopen schools in September.

khalessi

daydorunrun wrote: »

You have a constant passive aggressive tone. Far too much time on your hands coupled with being accustomed to being the voice that speaks and everyone else should listen.

Thank you, but I dont think or see myself as a voice that speaks for anyone just one of many, i may disagree with what is being said but it is a free country to do so. And if people want to listen that is up to them but I dont expect them to and I am certainly not passive aggressive, though sometimes I do think feck it and throw in some humour as I think this thread gets ridiculous and could do with it.

Higgins5473

downthemiddle wrote: »

I'm an unqualified brain surgeon. Would you like me to perform a lobotomy on you?

whatever job you do, I'd say it will be a vast improvement.

downthemiddle

daydorunrun wrote: »

You have a constant passive aggressive tone. Far too much time on your hands coupled with being accustomed to being the voice that speaks and everyone else should listen.

Somebody else who, clearly, has absolutely no concept of how a teacher operates in a modern Irish classroom.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

downthemiddle wrote: »

Somebody else who, clearly, has absolutely no concept of how a teacher operates in a modern Irish classroom.

If this thread is the norm then it must be a very toxic work environment.

Sad to see really the tone of some posts and mockery in a profession that is responsible for educating our young people.

I'm sure there are plenty of teachers doing the job for all of the right reasons though so I wouldn't let this thread change my views.

I've met some wonderful educators in my time and can only hope that I continue to do so.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

If this thread is the norm then it must be a very toxic work environment.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Higgins5473

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

If this thread is the norm then it must be a very toxic work environment.

Sad to see really the tone of some posts and mockery in a profession that is responsible for educating our young people.

I'm sure there are plenty of teachers doing the job for all of the right reasons though so I wouldn't let this thread change my views.

I've met some wonderful educators in my time and can only hope that I continue to do so.

what do you do exactly? is it a qualified profession? if so can I comment on how I would do it as somebody unqualified?

set up a thread on what you and then we can all comment on it and see how that goes.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

downthemiddle wrote: »

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Yep you're right there and if you can't see the irony in that we'll then I'll leave you to it.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Higgins5473 wrote: »

what do you do exactly? is it a qualified profession? if so can I comment on how I would do it as somebody unqualified?

set up a thread on what you and then we can all comment on it and see how that goes.

Does your school have an anti bullying policy?

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

If this thread is the norm then it must be a very toxic work environment.

Sad to see really the tone of some posts and mockery in a profession that is responsible for educating our young people.

I'm sure there are plenty of teachers doing the job for all of the right reasons though so I wouldn't let this thread change my views.

I've met some wonderful educators in my time and can only hope that I continue to do so.

That is lovely you are free to leave the thread at anytime you know.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Understandable why bullying is rampant in a lot of the schools if this is the example being given to students.

Shocking really from teachers.

Higgins5473

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Yep you're right there and if you can't see the irony in that we'll then I'll leave you to it.

so what is you do?

**pffffft...and like that she is gone**


*sorry watched usual suspects the yesterday, after I heard gabriel byrne was 70 :eek:

I remember seeing that in the cinema like it was ten years ago

Mrsmum

From speaking to my sisters who have five primary children between them in different schools, it occurred to me that it might be helpful if parents got a sort of teaching plan/schedule each month from their child's teacher especially as they are now very much partners in their child's education. At the moment the work is coming through but I think parents feel a bit in the dark regarding where they are at any given time. So if say at the beginning of Sept and subsequent months they got a letter from teacher saying this month we will be covering the following English this, Irish this, Maths this and so forth, then they would feel more informed or in control of their child's learning. Obviously not full teaching schemes or anything like that but just enough to make the picture easier for the parents to see.

khalessi

Mrsmum wrote: »

From speaking to my sisters who have five primary children between them in different schools, it occurred to me that it might be helpful if parents got a sort of teaching plan/schedule each month from their child's teacher especially as they are now very much partners in their child's education. At the moment the work is coming through but I think parents feel a bit in the dark regarding where they are at any given time. So if say at the beginning of Sept and subsequent months they got a letter from teacher saying this month we will be covering the following English this, Irish this, Maths this and so forth, then they would feel more informed or in control of their child's learning. Obviously not full teaching schemes or anything like that but just enough to make the picture easier for the parents to see.

What type of detail would they be looking for? I know teachers send out a planner or timetable. Are they looking for teaching outcomes or kinda how we plan for the fortnight? Just asking as it will be good to know going forward.
.
Editing to add was thinking more about this and I might suggest it at a staff meeting, worth thinking about for September

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Yep you're right there and if you can't see the irony in that we'll then I'll leave you to it.

You have failed to point out where I have been incorrect in anything I have posted. You have failed to back up assertions you have made despite being given ample opportunity to do so. You duck and dive when challenged on the unsubstantiated claims you make.

Irony- a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions is clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character

Mrsmum

khalessi wrote: »

What type of detail would they be looking for? I know teachers send out a planner or timetable. Are they looking for teaching outcomes or kinda how we plan for the fortnight? Just asking as it will be good to know going forward.

I hardly know how to explain it really but just the bones of what their child will be studying and should know for a set period ie History - Parnell, Georg - provinces and counties of Ireland etc. No need to confuse parents with too much info, lol but just so they feel the are riding the horse rather than hanging on to it's tail for dear life if that makes any sense. Do all teachers send out a planner/timetable cause that sounds like what I'm talking about really ?

selectamatic

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

There was a big official report done on this by the Department of Education just late last year, predicting a huge excess of teachers.


There are no jobs for hundreds of teaching graduates every year along with redeployment of surplus existing teachers too.

Of course the report was rubbished by the unions, but thats to be expected.

Predicting there will be a surplus of teachers is a whole different kettle of fish to saying there is a surplus of teachers currently.

NQT secondary teachers who can only get a few hours in certain subjects is also a whole different kettle of fish to saying NQT secondary teachers in general can only get a few hours per week regardless of subject.

The country has been hemorrhaging young teachers to the middle east at a big rate, the last few years more so than ever and currently teaching placements for many student teachers are in limbo so I simply cannot see where this surplus of teachers is going to come from.

As a general rule of thumb there'll be a surplus of teachers about 2 to 3 years after the begining of a recession because the stable nature of the job attracts applicants.

When times are good and other jobs are more plentiful as they have been up until this pandemic there is generally never a surplus of teachers because would be applicants are attracted to courses and career paths that have less of a perceived ceiling.

lulublue22

downthemiddle wrote: »

Somebody else who, clearly, has absolutely no concept of how a teacher operates in a modern Irish classroom.

I think that is a major issue with this thread. Posters who feel more than qualified to post opinions as facts though it is clear that they have absolutely no idea of either the practicalities of the situation or the difficulties faced at the local level. Despite several teachers indicating the difficulty in sourcing subs we apparently have more than enough being a prime example. Not understanding why PE may be a cause of concern when school returns or the blanket statement a number of days ago that at the very least schools need to be discussing this issue with the underlying assumption that they are obviously not without a shred of evidence re same. I know we have discussed how we could facilitate a return in September subject to department guidelines. I doubt we are the only school in the country to do so.
It’s extremely frustrating as a thread which could have been really interesting and informative is derailed by constant sniping at teachers as if we are the reason why the schools are closed. I for one would prefer a well thought out solution from the dep that would see us reopening in Sep and staying open with local closures if necessary due to a rise in clusters rather than an ad hoc get everyone back for the sake of it.

daydorunrun

downthemiddle wrote: »

Somebody else who, clearly, has absolutely no concept of how a teacher operates in a modern Irish classroom.

Judging by the attitudes displayed by some teachers in here I’d rather not know how modern Irish classrooms work.

daydorunrun

downthemiddle wrote: »

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

pseudo-intellectual drivel.

BonsaiKitten

Mrsmum wrote: »

I hardly know how to explain it really but just the bones of what their child will be studying and should know for a set period ie History - Parnell, Georg - provinces and counties of Ireland etc. No need to confuse parents with too much info, lol but just so they feel the are riding the horse rather than hanging on to it's tail for dear life if that makes any sense. Do all teachers send out a planner/timetable cause that sounds like what I'm talking about really ?

I used to do something like this with a class blog. Dropped the blog after a year, it turned into a chore in the end but the kids wrote it up and they enjoyed it a lot. If I could think of a manageable way to do it, I'd do it again. You could always send out an email I suppose.

I can't speak for other primary teachers but I have refused to send out timetables and will do so again in the future. I don't stick rigidly to my timetable and move subject times around every week. Kids get taken out of class for support sessions at the same time every week...if I stuck like glue to a timetable the child might miss History all year. Sending out a planned timetable just stores up problems imo.

daydorunrun

Mrsmum wrote: »

I hardly know how to explain it really but just the bones of what their child will be studying and should know for a set period ie History - Parnell, Georg - provinces and counties of Ireland etc. No need to confuse parents with too much info, lol but just so they feel the are riding the horse rather than hanging on to it's tail for dear life if that makes any sense. Do all teachers send out a planner/timetable cause that sounds like what I'm talking about really ?

Very good point. Having a road map for essential topics and skills that need covering per class would be very useful and a question I will ask our school.

downthemiddle

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think that is a major issue with this thread. Posters who feel more than qualified to post opinions as facts though it is clear that they have absolutely no idea of either the practicalities of the situation or the difficulties faced at the local level. Despite several teachers indicating the difficulty in sourcing subs we apparently have more than enough being a prime example. Not understanding why PE may be a cause of concern when school returns or the blanket statement a number of days ago that at the very least schools need to be discussing this issue with the underlying assumption that they are obviously not without a shred of evidence re same. I know we have discussed how we could facilitate a return in September subject to department guidelines. I doubt we are the only school in the country to do so.
It’s extremely frustrating as a thread which could have been really interesting and informative is derailed by constant sniping at teachers as if we are the reason why the schools are closed. I for one would prefer a well thought out solution from the dep that would see us reopening in Sep and staying open with local closures if necessary due to a rise in clusters rather than an ad hoc get everyone back for the sake of it.

Today I did an interview where I was given the opportunity to discuss our school in a positive environment by someone who was well informed and genuinely interested in what I had to say. It was a positive, affirming experience with someone who understands education.
I then spent a considerable part of the day working with a contractor looking at ways to mark the school for social distancing. However as guidelines may change between now and September we were only able draw up outline plans. We agreed that it would be better to revisit plans closer to the time when we have a better idea of the challenges we will face.
Schools are complex, but rewarding, environments. Teachers have a great burden of responsibility towards their students. In these challenging times nobody wants to be the one to get things wrong.

khalessi

Mrsmum wrote: »

I hardly know how to explain it really but just the bones of what their child will be studying and should know for a set period ie History - Parnell, Georg - provinces and counties of Ireland etc. No need to confuse parents with too much info, lol but just so they feel the are riding the horse rather than hanging on to it's tail for dear life if that makes any sense. Do all teachers send out a planner/timetable cause that sounds like what I'm talking about really ?

They all have different methods, some of which depend on the system they are using for onlune teaching. My kids school uses Seesaw and send out weekly timetable from which I pick and choose.

My school use Aladdin and Google classroom. So, I spent this evening researching videos and writing up notes explaining the topic step by step for each subject that is being covered tomorrow, along with designing a worksheet they can download and answer and return for correction.

I then put all of that up on the Google classroom and post a brief description of what will be covered with the worksheet on Aladdin for any parents who cannot get into google classroom and they return it by email.

downthemiddle

daydorunrun wrote: »

pseudo-intellectual drivel.

An interesting critique of the great Jonathan Swift. Are you familiar with all his works?

daydorunrun

downthemiddle wrote: »

An interesting critique of the great Jonathan Swift. Are you familiar with all his works?

I was referring to your lazy quote of his work in an attempt to demean and trivialise other people’s opinions because you think you know better than anybody else. I suppose every dog must have its day.

downthemiddle

daydorunrun wrote: »

I was referring to your lazy quote of his work in an attempt to demean and trivialise other people’s opinions because you think you know better than anybody else. I suppose every dog must have its day.

Interesting interpretation of the points I have made on this thread. I don't believe I have trivialised the opinions of others but I make no apologies for challenging others and asking them to substaniate their points, something that they have failed to do.

lulublue22

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I used to do something like this with a class blog. Dropped the blog after a year, it turned into a chore in the end but the kids wrote it up and they enjoyed it a lot. If I could think of a manageable way to do it, I'd do it again. You could always send out an email I suppose.

I can't speak for other primary teachers but I have refused to send out timetables and will do so again in the future. I don't stick rigidly to my timetable and move subject times around every week. Kids get taken out of class for support sessions at the same time every week...if I stuck like glue to a timetable the child might miss History all year. Sending out a planned timetable just stores up problems imo.

Rather than a timetable it could possibly be an outline this term/ month in maths we will be focusing on addition within 100 etc. Possibly worth it for the core subjects but very cumbersome across the curriculum.