How will schools be able to go back in September?

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So no art, music or OE?

No - may not be a popular opinion but one that I would look at for the duration of the pandemic particularly if social distancing needs to be adhered to and children are looking at reduced face to face contact time with teachers. Parents could focus on the PE art music drama at home in a less formal no stress way until we return to normal.

Scruff101

khalessi wrote: »

Thing is it wont be normal, it is not normal for the schools in Europe or round the world either from what we have seen.

I was talking to a secondary school teacher yesterday about what they thought and they said that they are trying to plan for September and are looking at different ideas, including bringing half the school in one week and the other half the next week and putting teaching online.

They then discussed the reprecussions of this on the kids such as not being in sme group as friends and the issues that could cause. In their words it is a minefield they are trying to get through while attending to the chlildrens educational, social and psychological needs.

Interesting ideas. My sister is secondary as is a neighbour, two different schools. In contrast they're planning as normal for Sept until.theyre advised otherwise.

khalessi

Scruff101 wrote: »

Interesting ideas. My sister is secondary as is a neighbour, two different schools. In contrast they're planning as normal for Sept until.theyre advised otherwise.

They are indeed, that person said that they are discussing a number of different type scenarios like normal school and the above mentioned one, then waiting for guidance from DoE and NPhet before finalising details.

downthemiddle

Scruff101 wrote: »

Interesting ideas. My sister is secondary as is a neighbour, two different schools. In contrast they're planning as normal for Sept until.theyre advised otherwise.

In many of the larger schools discussions will not have filtered down through the staff yet. There is no point in stressing people with ten or twelve possible scenarios when most of them will not materialise. We have seen on this thread how people respond to speculation and run with it.
Most discussions at the moment will be taking place between management bodies, principals and in school management teams along with representative bodies. They are attempting to resolve many of the challenges school will face. It is an ever changing landscape. Very few would have predicted that schools would be in this position eleven weeks ago. Nobody can accurately predict where we will be in eleven weeks time.

daydorunrun

khalessi wrote: »

Thing is it wont be normal, it is not normal for the schools in Europe or round the world either from what we have seen.

I was talking to a secondary school teacher yesterday about what they thought and they said that they are trying to plan for September and are looking at different ideas, including bringing half the school in one week and the other half the next week and putting teaching online.

They then discussed the reprecussions of this on the kids such as not being in sme group as friends and the issues that could cause. In their words it is a minefield they are trying to get through while attending to the chlildrens educational, social and psychological needs.

It is a total minefield. I know teachers often say we are not a babysitting service and of course ye are not, everybody knows and appreciates the roll you guys play (well maybe some don't but theres always a few). But outside of schools an economy has developed and evolved in symbiosis with schools- kids go to school- parents go to work. If schools go part-time as is the suggestion here, the knock on effect on an already shaken economy is huge. If the economy can't be resurrected then it's bad news for everyone if we end up in some sort of depression with zero funding for schools and teachers. It is for this reason, rightly or wrongly, I think there will be a drive to get back to a new normal that doesn't include 2 days on 2 days off or something like that.

khalessi

daydorunrun wrote: »

It is a total minefield. I know teachers often say we are not a babysitting service and of course ye are not, everybody knows and appreciates the roll you guys play (well maybe some don't but theres always a few). But outside of schools an economy has developed and evolved in symbiosis with schools- kids go to school- parents go to work. If schools go part-time as is the suggestion here, the knock on effect on an already shaken economy is huge. If the economy can't be resurrected then it's bad news for everyone if we end up in some sort of depression with zero funding for schools and teachers. It is for this reason, rightly or wrongly, I think there will be a drive to get back to a new normal that doesn't include 2 days on 2 days off or something like that.

Well it is one of a number of scenarios they are looking at, only time will tell what will happen as was said elsewhere on the thread, it is a new normal and we do not know where we will be in 11 weeks time.

Scruff101

downthemiddle wrote: »

In many of the larger schools discussions will not have filtered down through the staff yet. There is no point in stressing people with ten or twelve possible scenarios when most of them will not materialise. We have seen on this thread how people respond to speculation and run with it.
Most discussions at the moment will be taking place between management bodies, principals and in school management teams along with representative bodies. They are attempting to resolve many of the challenges school will face. It is an ever changing landscape. Very few would have predicted that schools would be in this position eleven weeks ago. Nobody can accurately predict where we will be in eleven weeks time.

Well teachers in these two schools have definitely been involved. I don't think they're overly confident in waiting on any kind of direction so they're planning til told otherwise.

kowloonkev

It would make so much more sense to get them back to school asap before a shortened summer break for a trial run. Just for a month or so and then better planning can be achieved for next semester.

If they go back in September when a second wave is more likely than summer, and they have to close schools again then it will actually be a tragedy for the younger kids especially.

We have to utilize the summer months.

plodder

lulublue22 wrote: »

I think that is a major issue with this thread. Posters who feel more than qualified to post opinions as facts though it is clear that they have absolutely no idea of either the practicalities of the situation or the difficulties faced at the local level.

There's a tendency though to deal with the points that are easily refuted and ignore the harder questions - eg like how can other countries send their children back to school, and still see declining cases, or at least no resulting spike.

I'd like to know if it's possible to put a simple plan in place to send primary children back to school for even the last month of the school year. Eg on a voluntary basis, every second day, with simple measures like keeping all doors and windows open for circulation of air. Obviously, a different plan is needed for September.

khalessi

plodder wrote: »

There's a tendency though to deal with the points that are easily refuted and ignore the harder questions - eg like how can other countries send their children back to school, and still see declining cases, or at least no resulting spike.

I'd like to know if it's possible to put a simple plan in place to send primary children back to school for even the last month of the school year. Eg on a voluntary basis, every second day, with simple measures like keeping all doors and windows open for circulation of air. Obviously, a different plan is needed for September.

This has been discussed before re the windows and doors, the difficulty is not all schools are designed the same. In my school there is a tiny fly windown at the top and bottom of the frame and solid glass in the middle which dont open fully for H&S reasons and dont provide proper air circulation. In the summer months we are baked and I have the students knocking back water to beat the band, it is seriously bad.

In another part of the school, the prefabs just have a fly window with a grill outside so they are not broken into. The grill cant be lifted and the window if I remember correctly only opens 3 inches, it is like a microwave and the open door doesnt help much.

lulublue22

plodder wrote: »

There's a tendency though to deal with the points that are easily refuted and ignore the harder questions - eg like how can other countries send their children back to school, and still see declining cases, or at least no resulting spike.

I'd like to know if it's possible to put a simple plan in place to send primary children back to school for even the last month of the school year. Eg on a voluntary basis, every second day, with simple measures like keeping all doors and windows open for circulation of air. Obviously, a different plan is needed for September.

I’d have no problem going back in June once there was a plan in place - at the moment no one knows what is going on and the media really aren't helping. There has been chronic underfunding of education over a number of years and it’s coming home to roost now. Some schools don’t have the basics such as access to hot water or hand sanitizer.

I think McHugh needs to come out and say we ( the stakeholders) are working on a plan to return children to education based on sound public health advice. The media need to back off and stop stirring with clickbait headlines and faux outrage. A plan needs to be put in place and we get on with it.

plodder

khalessi wrote: »

This has been discussed before re the windows and doors, the difficulty is not all schools are designed the same. In my school there is a tiny fly windown at the top and bottom of the frame and solid glass in the middle which dont open fully for H&S reasons and dont provide proper air circulation. In the summer months we are baked and I have the students knocking back water to beat the band, it is seriously bad.

In another part of the school, the prefabs just have a fly window with a grill outside so they are not broken into. The grill cant be lifted and the window if I remember correctly only opens 3 inches, it is like a microwave and the open door doesnt help much.

It'd be up to each school to decide obviously, but presumably most class rooms aren't so hermetically sealed that they can't get air circulating.

If some can't re-open then or find alternatives then so be it. Those ones don't re-open until the big plan is put in place.

downthemiddle

daydorunrun wrote: »

It is a total minefield. I know teachers often say we are not a babysitting service and of course ye are not, everybody knows and appreciates the roll you guys play (well maybe some don't but theres always a few). But outside of schools an economy has developed and evolved in symbiosis with schools- kids go to school- parents go to work. If schools go part-time as is the suggestion here, the knock on effect on an already shaken economy is huge. If the economy can't be resurrected then it's bad news for everyone if we end up in some sort of depression with zero funding for schools and teachers. It is for this reason, rightly or wrongly, I think there will be a drive to get back to a new normal that doesn't include 2 days on 2 days off or something like that.

I think you will find that most teachers would love to go back to what they know best. I fully understand why such a cautious approach has been taken to schools. A death associated with any school would be disastrous, not only for the family involved but, for wider society. It would shake us to the core and make people question if anything was safe. We should have a clearer picture by September of what acceptable risks are.
Secondary schools being closed does not have the same impact on the economy as primary schools. Childcare needs are very different for both cohort of students.
There are 535,000 children currently attending primary schools. The challenge is to put structures in place that the vast majority feel are reasonable and safe. Children, by their very nature, are tactile and sociable. The possibility that schools could be very different places when children return would be extremely distressing for many children and as a result for their parents. Despite what some posters may think it would also be distressing for many teachers too.
However schools being closed is having a hugely detrimental effect on the economy and the economy will only start to function fully if the schools reopen. Decisions made over the next eleven weeks will impact on all our lives for many years to come.

downthemiddle

kowloonkev wrote: »

It would make so much more sense to get them back to school asap before a shortened summer break for a trial run. Just for a month or so and then better planning can be achieved for next semester.

A little experiment just to see what could possibly go wrong?

kowloonkev

downthemiddle wrote: »

A little experiment just to see what could possibly go wrong?

Yes.

kandr10

downthemiddle wrote: »

A little experiment just to see what could possibly go wrong?

Yeah I wouldn’t be keen for my child to be part of a trial run I have to say. Not when we’re still at a stage of not having had Proper contact with family and friends. Seems bonkers.

SusanC10

kandr10 wrote: »

Yeah I wouldn’t be keen for my child to be part of a trial run I have to say. Not when we’re still at a stage of not having had Proper contact with family and friends. Seems bonkers.

Agree. We can't travel to see my mother until after July 20th.

plodder

kandr10 wrote: »

Yeah I wouldn’t be keen for my child to be part of a trial run I have to say.

which is why it would have to be voluntary.

downthemiddle

kowloonkev wrote: »

Yes.

Does your mother know that you are talking to strangers on the internet?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

downthemiddle wrote: »

Does your mother know that you are talking to strangers on the internet?

And yet again because someone has different views they are mocked.

Mrsmum

Some teachers here have spoken about the Government plan. Am I mad in thinking I'd trust the local school to take the correct steps to get things right in their specific schools as much as some overall macro level plan. The Government know little or nothing about unique issues in every school. Katherine Zappone came out with her childcare plan yesterday and immediately on tv, two creche owners said her plan was unworkable on the ground. By contrast I was watching a feature a few weeks back about a school in Monaghan and before any plan they were getting all the door handles changed to what was news to me - anti virus handles. And anyway don't we know the score at this stage & what the Government are going to say - there must be social distance, there must be hand sanitation, there must be face coverings, one way in out systems, staggered drop off/collections. I just don't see the Government are going to be coming up with any magical plans to make it all flow nicely and anyway it is at local level such plans must be adjusted to suit. I think school personnel and parents will have to co operate together to do /provide whatever is required in this.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Mrsmum wrote: »

By contrast I was watching a feature a few weeks back about a school in Monaghan and before any plan they were getting all the door handles changed to what was news to me - anti virus handles.

These are great and can be found in some of our hospitals, a timed sensor on the handle activates when the door is used and a small mist of disinfectant covers the handle.

Wouldn't be a cheap solution but would be great to have in high traffic areas such as entry doors or toilet doors.

khalessi

Mrsmum wrote: »

Some teachers here have spoken about the Government plan. Am I mad in thinking I'd trust the local school to take the correct steps to get things right in their specific schools as much as some overall macro level plan. The Government know little or nothing about unique issues in every school. Katherine Zappone came out with her childcare plan yesterday and immediately on tv, two creche owners said her plan was unworkable on the ground. By contrast I was watching a feature a few weeks back about a school in Monaghan and before any plan they were getting all the door handles changed to what was news to me - anti virus handles. And anyway don't we know the score at this stage & what the Government are going to say - there must be social distance, there must be hand sanitation, there must be face coverings, one way in out systems, staggered drop off/collections. I just don't see the Government are going to be coming up with any magical plans to make it all flow nicely and anyway it is at local level such plans must be adjusted to suit. I think school personnel and parents will have to co operate together to do /provide whatever is required in this.

This is more or less what we have been saying all along. The government need to come out with guidance, support and basically finance to support the schools and then the schools can adapt to their local situation.

But money has to be there for hand sanitisers, warm water, daily deep cleans, Neps for the kids, ppe if required and so many different areas.

What worries me and some of my colleagues is that the DoE will have a nice sparkly press release which, similar to the creche guidelines you mention, will have no link to reality.

Hubertj

this will be a shambles. Dept of Education incompetence combined with union involvement will mean a total disaster. My wife and I have already organised a childminder. Can't rely on creche or primary school. I wfh but my wife doesnt. It is not an option for me to care for kids and work.

Treppen

c montgomery wrote: »

How many kids have died of covid in ireland?
How come Denmark, Croatia and others have opened with no adverse effects?
Ireland will be open again soon, you re free to stay at home avoiding the "grim reaper "

This shows what people don't understand, it's not just about getting it, it's about spreading it.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Hubertj wrote: »

this will be a shambles. Dept of Education incompetence combined with union involvement will mean a total disaster. My wife and I have already organised a childminder. Can't rely on creche or primary school. I wfh but my wife doesnt. It is not an option for me to care for kids and work.

You're better off making own arrangements as plenty have already had to. At least you know where you stand.

I saw some of the conversation around Aodhan O Riordan tweet last night and most of it was complete resistance, denial and complaining.

Along with talk of striking if they are made go back (surprise surprise) don't make me laugh I sincerely hope the unions aren't that tone deaf.

The unions might want to read the room and check the public appetite for teachers striking right now. People have lost jobs, their businesses and some won't recover financially at all. There is not likely to be much sympathy for teachers sorry, union clout will be minimal.

This is happening no matter how much protesting there is, it's just a matter of when. Why anyone would think otherwise is beyond me.

Wallander

khalessi wrote: »

Thing is it wont be normal, it is not normal for the schools in Europe or round the world either from what we have seen.

I was talking to a secondary school teacher yesterday about what they thought and they said that they are trying to plan for September and are looking at different ideas, including bringing half the school in one week and the other half the next week and putting teaching online.

They then discussed the reprecussions of this on the kids such as not being in sme group as friends and the issues that could cause. In their words it is a minefield they are trying to get through while attending to the chlildrens educational, social and psychological needs.

I suspect the idea of having half a school in one week and the rest in the following week would be welcomed by the airlines most of all, as demand for week-long autumn breaks would surely skyrocket.

plodder

Treppen wrote: »

This shows what people don't understand, it's not just about getting it, it's about spreading it.

In fairness, the evidence, from Denmark (haven't checked the others) is that opening primary schools has not resulted in spreading.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

plodder wrote: »

In fairness, the evidence, from Denmark (haven't checked the others) is that opening primary schools has not resulted in spreading.

Several reports have said the spread in under 14s is much less than those who are older.

So despite earlier information suggesting they are little superspreaders, the opposite is the case.

Probably safer in a classroom of primary school children than an open plan office environment.

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Several reports have said the the spread in under 14s is much less than those who are older.

So despite earlier information suggesting they are little superspreaders, the opposite is the case.

Probably safer in a classroom of primary school children than an open plan office environment.

There are also several reports to the contrary such as the one from Johns Hopkins University, which indicates that children are as suseptable to catching and spreading the virus as adults. There has has been an outbreak in France with the sd we have seen in the media. At least an open plan office has circulating air, in some schools they can't open the windows properly.