How will schools be able to go back in September?

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Yes there is a different narrative in France, well definitely around Paris with the flareup linked to the primary schools returning.

That's not strictly true, as those infected would have been infected since before the schools went back. The flareups were caught on Monday, they were infected before they went back.

FeirmeoirtTed

kowloonkev wrote: »

I think we really need to reduce the summer holidays by a few weeks/month and extend the other holidays around flu season. The summer holiday in Ireland is ridiculously long anyway, especially in secondary school.

I think we should ban "fornication" that way lazy ass teachers would have to get real jobs and actually work for a living and there won't be any lazy ass parents whingeing when a global pandemic comes a knocking about who's going to raise their kids. Simple solution.

Murple

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

They should be treated the same way as anyone else who refuses to go to work.

What about everyone else who's not a teacher and finds themselves in the same position, no employer is going to say "oh OK then you stay at home on full pay until things change".

If somebody decides not to work because of this then that should be their decision/choice and they will have to give up their position, thats the reality and there's a queue of people ready and willing to take over their job.

And what about the fact that there have been serious issues around getting trained and qualified subs in schools for several years? There isn't a queue of people 'ready and willing'. Or do you think any adult will do so long as they're ready and willing.

BonsaiKitten

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

What will happen is a % of teachers refuse to go back to work due to living with elderly, health issues in family etc?

There will be kids who can't go back to school due to health issues. I'd like it if we could set up some kind of online school for them and staff it with teachers who can't go back to work.

I have very little faith that it will happen but it could be good for all involved.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

I think we should ban "fornication" that way lazy ass teachers would have to get real jobs and actually work for a living and there won't be any lazy ass parents whingeing when a global pandemic comes a knocking about who's going to raise their kids. Simple solution.

Paddygreen, that you?

Benimar

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Sports teams are allowed back training on 8th of June so not sure why you think that come September PE and sports would need to be cancelled?

We'll go back to normal more or less as the guidelines will be changed and the schools will do what the government tells them to do and the government won't have any other choice.

Watch how the narrative changes around this in the media very soon.

Antibody testing, rapid contact tracing, low or non existent community spread, there will be no excuse for teachers to stay at home come September.

The GAA have said they won’t return until 20 July at the earliest. The FAI are the same, and they won’t have schoolboys/girls back training until late August, with no matches allowed until kids are back in school.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves thinking the kids will be doing sport all summer.

June 8th is a great sound bite, but sport has massive issues over how to return. Teachers aren’t being awkward here, there are issues that need dealing with.

wirelessdude01

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

What will happen is a % of teachers refuse to go back to work due to living with elderly, health issues in family etc?

See this is where hopefully the dept will actually define and provide some proper structure around sickness and things like this for us.

Vast majority of teachers prefer to be in school however some who would like to be may not be allowed in due to underlying issues. Employer duty of care comes into play here.

wirelessdude01

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

I think we should ban "fornication" that way lazy ass teachers would have to get real jobs and actually work for a living and there won't be any lazy ass parents whingeing when a global pandemic comes a knocking about who's going to raise their kids. Simple solution.

Also a sure fire way to eradicate Covid-19 as there will be no humans left in another 100yrs!!!!

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Murple wrote: »

And what about the fact that there have been serious issues around getting trained and qualified subs in schools for several years? There isn't a queue of people 'ready and willing'. Or do you think any adult will do so long as they're ready and willing.

Getting a sub will always be harder than placing someone in a permanent position, there is an excess of qualified teachers currently available.

More and more far exceeding those retiring are graduating every year. They'll be more than happy to fill the positions for those who choose not to work.

wirelessdude01

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

There will be kids who can't go back to school due to health issues. I'd like it if we could set up some kind of online school for them and staff it with teachers who can't go back to work.

I have very little faith that it will happen but it could be good for all involved.

That would require proper planning and joined up thinking from the dept which unfortunately I severely doubt can actually occur.

We talked about this amongst our own staff on a zoom staff meeting as few weeks back.

TheValeyard

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Getting a sub will always be harder than placing someone in a permanent position, there is an excess of qualified teachers currently available.

More and more far exceeding those retiring are graduating every year. They'll be more than happy to fill the positions for those who choose not to work.

Maybe at primary, severe shortage at secondary level in many subjects.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Benimar wrote: »

The GAA have said they won’t return until 20 July at the earliest. The FAI are the same, and they won’t have schoolboys/girls back training until late August,

Exactly, so why do some people think that PE and sports in school will be cancelled come September?

Kris74

Murple wrote: »

And what about the fact that there have been serious issues around getting trained and qualified subs in schools for several years? There isn't a queue of people 'ready and willing'. Or do you think any adult will do so long as they're ready and willing.

Honestly .I don`t see that as a problem.
These are unique times.
It will go the way of East/Inner London where recruitment was a problem 10 years ago.
Teaching -primary and secondary positions are now given to bright University graduates ( eg Arts/Business/Law),who are streamlined through a 2/12 programme and then allowed to teach .Most do so for 1-2 years and it`s wonderful for their future CV.Wonderful for children of eg Tower Hamlets ,East London-a forerunner in these schemes.
So precedent already set.
With child protection training ,and teaching plans overseen by "head teachers" ,there are no issues.

Each teacher will have to decide their personal level of risk.If it`s too much,there will be people to take jobs.Especially now that emigration has stoped.
Also young teachers who previously worked in Emirates/Oz for a while are back,and will be looking for jobs.

Sadly,like EVERYONE else,we will have to assess our personal risk level,and take risks.Or not,as the case may be,and the consequences of deciding not to return to the workforce.

This will be the greatest disruption to the status quo in decades,and there will be new idea/innovation needed.

Unfortunately,there will NEVER be assurances with this virus.

JDxtra

From today's Irish Times...

"The World Health Organization (WHO) special envoy on Covid-19 has said it is now time to think about reopening schools in Ireland."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-time-to-examine-reopening-irish-schools-says-who-envoy-1.4258084

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Getting a sub will always be harder than placing someone in a permanent position, there is an excess of qualified teachers currently available.

More and more far exceeding those retiring are graduating every year. They'll be more than happy to fill the positions for those who choose not to work.

I personally think that it could be that rather than choosing not to work that you could find that they are ordered/told not to work by their employer due to a duty of care from their employer but hopefully no teacher is left to have to make that decision.

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Exactly, so why do some people think that PE and sports in school will be cancelled come September?

I think because those of us actually involved in those sports know that the organisations more than likely won't be returning for a good deal later than those proposed dates. No senior championship until October at the earliest with most people actively acknowledging that there may not be any championship at all this year.

Going back to PE in school. Knowing the parents I will have next year I can already name at least 10/12 of them that will just say that their children won't be taking part in PE. What do I do with them?

We as teachers are just looking practically at things that we know will cause an issue. We aren't trying to create issues but more so being realistic as to what we will face down the line.

Benimar

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Exactly, so why do some people think that PE and sports in school will be cancelled come September?

Because there is no guarantee the GAA will be back on July 20. Thats the earliest possible date. Even if they do, it might just be for adult teams training in small groups.

The FAI have already gone further and said there wont be games before kids go back to school ie: lets see how they get on in a school environment before we worry about sport.

I'm involved with a local club and we have had discussions about a return. The only thing we agreed on is that there are huge issues to be resolved before we can do so safely.

jrosen

Mrsmum wrote: »

kandr10 wrote: »

Work places are well known for saying all the right things but the reality on the ground is different. But there will just have to be huge flexibility in this case. If childcare and school can only be part time to facilitate social distancing, allowances will have to be made to allow parents to work in a flexible way.

Its not your employers fault or concern that you have no childcare. Yes they can be flexible and should be but to what end?. They may say there is flexibility , they may even act like there is. But job losses are coming in huge numbers and if you think any company is going to keep on X person who is working at 50% capacity over someone who is working harder you are mistaken.
Companies are already compiling data, they already know who is slacking and who isn't and while right now they will bend and be supportive that will run out and every person will be expected to do their job in full.

hmmm

Kris74 wrote: »

Sadly,like EVERYONE else,we will have to assess our personal risk level,and take risks.Or not,as the case may be,and the consequences of deciding not to return to the workforce.

This will be the greatest disruption to the status quo in decades,and there will be new idea/innovation needed.

Unfortunately,there will NEVER be assurances with this virus.

I don't think it would be fair as a society to say "tough" to someone with underlying conditions of a new virus which impacts on their ability to do their job, and that other people can do their job instead. In the short-term we have to see whether there are ways they can do their job safely (e.g. remote teaching to vulnerable children), or whether they can be reassigned to other roles.

In the longer term, we may have to make certain roles off-limits to certain people (e.g. we wouldn't allow people with epilepsy become truck drivers), but we're a long way from making decisions like that - only if we don't get a vaccine.

This entire crisis needs creative people in every profession figuring out solutions to get us through the next 18 months. After 18 months hopefully we have a vaccine or the pandemic has burned itself out, and can get back to relative normality. In teaching there are going to be lots of kids living with vulnerable people, and we can surely find a way to teach them online - and redeploy vulnerable teachers to doing the remote teaching.

Murple

Kris74 wrote: »

Honestly .I don`t see that as a problem.
These are unique times.
It will go the way of East/Inner London where recruitment was a problem 10 years ago.
Teaching -primary and secondary positions are now given to bright University graduates ( eg Arts/Business/Law),who are streamlined through a 2/12 programme and then allowed to teach .Most do so for 1-2 years and it`s wonderful for their future CV.Wonderful for children of eg Tower Hamlets ,East London-a forerunner in these schemes.
So precedent already set.
With child protection training ,and teaching plans overseen by "head teachers" ,there are no issues.
.

No issues except they are not trained teachers. So many posts here have used ‘parents are not teachers’ line as a reason to open schools now but now it seems being trained as a teacher isn’t important.
Explain to me what qualifications a business or law graduate has related to teaching and managing an infant class or any primary school class for that matter?
Personally I don’t feel that a teaching position should ever be given to a random graduate because ‘it’s wonderful for their future CV’.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Murple wrote: »

No issues except they are not trained teachers. So many posts here have used ‘parents are not teachers’ line as a reason to open schools now but now it seems being trained as a teacher isn’t important.
Explain to me what qualifications a business or law graduate has related to teaching and managing an infant class or any primary school class for that matter?
Personally I don’t feel that a teaching position should ever be given to a random graduate because ‘it’s wonderful for their future CV’.

It's called change and new ways of doing things.

Find a problem, find a solution.

If anything this pandemic will prove Darwins theory on adaptation, those businesses and organisations that adapted will survive.

Just because its not something that we've done before doesn't mean we shouldn't try it.

DSN

Our club (FAI) is positively planning to return to training on July 20th for underage. And matches from Aug 28th. Am hopeful for my sons sake they will work out a way and things will continue to improve here. My other half is a coach so I know there's lots of what ifs and possible issues to cover off but yup why not be positive.

PowerToWait

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

It's called change and new ways of doing things.

Find a problem, find a solution.

If anything this pandemic will prove Darwins theory on adaptation, those businesses and organisations that adapted will survive.

Just because its not something that we've done before doesn't mean we shouldn't try it.

Couldn’t you home school your kids as part of a solution? You will have to adapt as well.

Best case scenario kids will have school 2 days a week so you’ll be stuck with them for a good while yet. Bit of bonding time. They’re only young once. You should be embracing it.

Benimar

DSN wrote: »

Our club (FAI) is positively planning to return to training on July 20th for underage. And matches from Aug 28th. Am hopeful for my sons sake they will work out a way and things will continue to improve here. My other half is a coach so I know there's lots of what ifs and possible issues to cover off but yup why not be positive.

https://sfai.ie/2020/05/18/sfai-update-following-meeting-of-sfai-executive-committee/

This is the latest update from the SFAI. It came out after the FAI one, but it pretty much puts paid to football for kids before September.

FeirmeoirtTed

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Paddygreen, that you?

Tongue in cheek I wear both badges proudly

dundalkfc10

Benimar wrote: »

The GAA have said they won’t return until 20 July at the earliest. The FAI are the same, and they won’t have schoolboys/girls back training until late August, with no matches allowed until kids are back in school.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves thinking the kids will be doing sport all summer.

June 8th is a great sound bite, but sport has massive issues over how to return. Teachers aren’t being awkward here, there are issues that need dealing with.

League of Ireland clubs Dundalk, Derry, Bohemians and Shamrock Rovers are back training on 8th June (All 4 are in talks to resume sooner if possible)

ldy4mxonucwsq6

PowerToWait wrote: »

Couldn’t you home school your kids as part of a solution? You will have to adapt as well.

Best case scenario kids will have school 2 days a week so you’ll be stuck with them for a good while yet. Bit of bonding time. They’re only young once. You should be embracing it.

I have been home schooling them and if the government wants to roll out a national home schooling programme to support parents in giving up their jobs to do teachers jobs then sign me up.

I have a job too, and have been working throughout this.

Staying at home is not sustainable long term, my partner also has to work so we juggle and take leave and work opposite shifts.

Who do you think is going to pay the bill on this if working parents have to leave their jobs to home school?

The WHO has already started telling the government to open back up schools, Leo said its one of the safest things to do. So if you think parents will be homeschooling still in September I think you are misinformed.

School is important for children's education, welfare and social skills, all the bonding time in the world with me will not make up for that in the long run.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

If anything this pandemic will prove Darwins theory on adaptation, those businesses and organisations that adapted will survive.

Good grasp of Darwin here

Dayo93

If anything we should be talking about extending the school day in september by one hour to make up for the time lost .

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Dayo93 wrote: »

If anything we should be talking about extending the school day in september by one hour to make up for the time lost .

Definitely, there should be plenty y of options on the table. There are also proposals being made for extending the school week out to 6 or 7 days to allow for staggered teaching.