Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Grizzly 45

From a historical perspective of AGS history as a force and firearms.
http://www.gardareview.ie/index.php/the-guard-and-the-gun/

Nekarsulm

"The debate too, should not not be on the type of firearm used, or how it looks when deployed"

Oh, the irony!

gunny123

"sig 38mm" ! Some slap off both ends of that !

gunny123

Interesting documentary i seen on Al jazeera the other night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trS85grvIW0

Cass

Cass wrote: »

Only in Ireland could the national police force seek someone to tell them that these, among other things, are wrong:

• Fraudulent breath tests
• "Loosing" her (Commissioner) phone and undermining the Tribunal
• Appointing husband weeks before civilian board take over promotions
• Assigning said husband to investigate leaks
• The Maurice McCabe travesty
• Financial "irregularities" at Templemore
• Lying under Oath at the Jobstown six trial
• Beating the public

Cass wrote: »

Look at what we've had in the last year alone:

• Maurice McCabe being relentlessly victimised
• The Commissioner under fire from the public and from some quarters of the Dail.
• "Loosing" her phone
• IIRC three other separate issues relating to her actions (including the promoting of her husband to Chief Super just weeks before the civilian board was due to take over that role)
• Templemore financial scandal
• Millions of fraudulent breath tests.
• Gardaí including, according to the records, a Superintendent lying under oath at the Jobstown six trial (this is actually recorded and the word used is lying)

Sweet baby Jesus. Another half a million (500,000) false/fake breath tests.

That is another 500,000 they LIED about doing, and we're told it's not criminal.

So maybe someone can answer these for me!

• Were all the tests negative?
• If some were marked as positive where/when were the court cases?
• Did the courts not cop on that 1,500,000 breath tests had shown no court cases?
• How f**king incompetent are the "top" Gardaí to claim they knew nothing of this?
• How do you think this will effect future breath tests? (the water has now been well and truly mudded)
• What effect will it have on other penalties such as parking, speeding, etc, etc. IOW how reliable are An Gardaí now (considering they lost have previously lost accreditation by the CSO for fudging numbers)
• How sustainable is O'Sullivan's job?
• Will we only end up with the same when she is replaced by another of the same mindset as OSullivan and Murphy?

I see O'Sullivan is back from her extended "holidays".

Nekarsulm

Cass wrote: »

I see O'Sullivan is back from her extended "holidays".

Only because her attempt to do a moonlight flit over to Europol was unsuccessful.

Apparently she was deemed ineligible as she had not served 15 years in a senior management position.
Or perhaps Europol simply Googled her name .......

Grizzly 45

Gotta really ask now, is it time to do a Patten on AGS and start afresh?There is just so much tinkering you can do with a derelict and rotten structure.Sometimes it is best to just level the whole thing and start new.

Cass

That would be the sensible and proper way to do it, but in a country of "push it down the road" that won't happen.

The matter will be ignored with TDs still standing by O'Sullivan and her Gardaí until they can quietly replace her while she walks away with a huge pension and golden handshake. Stick someone else in the role, from within the same rotten core, and start again.

On a slightly side note and possibly a bit of a cheap shot, but recently i seen an old advert for Garda recruitment from 1972. The criteria is laughable (Pass/D grade in leaving cert and if you got higher no need for entrance exam) and the senior Gardaí we have now are those that wold have gotten starts around that time.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

That would be the sensible and proper way to do it, but in a country of "push it down the road" that won't happen.

The matter will be ignored with TDs still standing by O'Sullivan and her Gardaí until they can quietly replace her while she walks away with a huge pension and golden handshake. Stick someone else in the role, from within the same rotten core, and start again.

On a slightly side note and possibly a bit of a cheap shot, but recently i seen an old advert for Garda recruitment from 1972. The criteria is laughable (Pass/D grade in leaving cert and if you got higher no need for entrance exam) and the senior Gardaí we have now are those that wold have gotten starts around that time.

In fairness though Cass, the educational level of anyone doesn't particulary matter if they are honest, decent and plain dealing. I know a multi-millionare with all sorts of higher qualifications, but he was up several times for demanding money with menaces, and blackmail. Also in this fabulous modern world of ours, you'd nearly need a masters to be a barista.

Cass

You are right gunny123 and as i said it was possibly a cheap shot, but the timing of this story breaking and the details of recruitment in the 70s was coincidental so i mentioned it.

I'm annoyed and frustrated that once again the national police force has been caught braking the law. The next thing we'll have is people saying rubbish like "99% are sound" or "its not all of them". I don't care about the that, i care about the fact that instead of pointing the finger and saying "you acted wrongly, you must be held to account" the excuses are already being trampled out.

The upper echelon will blame the flatfoot on the ground who in turn will say it was their superiors orders. In the meantime, and its already happened, we have TDs and other saying its not criminal. Without an investigation, without proof, and only hours after the story broke and they are able to say it wasn't criminal.

If we fill in the FCA1 fraudulently its a criminal offense. If we lie on any official document for welfare, insurance, driving license, bank loans, etc its fraud and probably criminal.

They outright lied. One report on RTE yesterday claimed a Garda rang into their local station to "put him down" for 37 breath checks. Then he changed it to 50 and before the conversation ended he was put down for 90. That is a lie, fraud and considering the amount of TOTAL false tests (1.5 MILLION) there must be criminality involved at some level/point.

I quoted above just some of the issues the Gardaí have been caught at in the last few years. Now we have yet more breath tests. As i asked above what does this mean for other aspects of policing. Are parking offenses to be trusted? Are check point FPN to be trusted? Is the testimony given in court to be trusted?

The rot is systemic and comes from the very top. Noirin O'Sullivan on "extended holidays" is a stupid and frankly insulting (to the public) way to keep her out of the limelight enough to hope that tempers have settled. Yet days before her return and another story of corruption breaks. I'm not anti Garda, but i don't hold them in reverence some do, and frankly if any one of us were caught acting in the manner they have been in our jobs we'd have been fired at best and jailed at worse.

Grizzly 45

"When a society is utterly corrupt.It is best to do likewise."
Marquis De Sade
And here is now the fundamental problem in Irish society.Corruption at the top always comes down hill.If our leaders are getting away with it, why shouldn't the man on the street? It has got so bad now that if you want to beat staying a weekend on a trolley in our hospitals or get to see a doctor faster in casualty, have a freakin brown paper envelope with a few 50 notes in it! I have actually the first-hand experience of this when my mother took sick at the beginning of the year down in a certain hospital in Limerick, and we did the weekend trolly camp out .:mad:
Your society is at a dangerous point when those sworn to uphold the law, consider themselves above the law and can use the law to absolve themselves and their circles from prosecution.

Cass

Cass wrote: »

.............. we have TDs and other saying its not criminal.

Not only has she [O'Sullivan] done nothing wrong, but she is a credit according to a woman who has done this and this.

Swear to God when i read it i was caught between this:





.............. and this:

gunny123

With friends like her, who needs enemies ?

Nekarsulm

An Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Sit tight till November, collect 300,000 Euro. plus 100,000 Euro per year for life.

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/garda-chief-weeks-away-bumper-e300000-payout-397414

Grizzly 45

Nekarsulm wrote: »

An Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Sit tight till November, collect 300,000 Euro. plus 100,000 Euro per year for life.

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/garda-chief-weeks-away-bumper-e300000-payout-397414

Subscribed article.

Well it goes to show Irish women in power are no better, or less corrupt, or competent than their male colleuges. Its simply a case of " Idiots doing idiot things because they are idiots! "[Archer]

Cass

Announced about two hours ago that she is stepping down next month.

I particularly like this bit:

Ms O’Sullivan said she was stepping down because the “unending cycle” of investigations and inquiries meant she could not devote enough time to bring about the “deep cultural and structural” reforms required to modernise An Garda

IOW she is stepping down because she is being asked to explain herself, her actions, and those of the people under her command. So once she is asked to be accountable she gets out?

Grizzly 45

Where have we seen this "stepping down" before the fire got too hot?...Donegal with the Barron case?...Or was it in the /high court with falsified firearms applications?Maybe it was her predecessor?Or was he fired....?Been so many it's becoming hard to keep track of these antics.:rolleyes:

gunny123

Typical Irish, make a balls of it and then wake up one morning to a 300k cheque on the mat. I wonder will she have to take a job in tesco's as a security guard, or do a bit of bouncing in coppers.

ezra_

I think her lump sum works out at c. €0.60 per additional false breath test.

gunny123

Just seen on the news, JC Juncker and Verhofstade in the European parliament saying they are happy that the UK is leaving the EU, and now they can plan for further integration, more countries using the Euro. An end to the veto, so all countries have to accept Eu law, no country can opt out. The most worrying is though a European defence force, or eu army.

“By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European defence union,” he said. “We need it. And Nato wants it.” - Juncker

Seeing as we have are neutral and have kept out of everything apart from peacekeeping, what do you think of the Irish army morphing into the eu army ?

Sparks

So the veto thing is specifically relating to the common commercial tax rates they're talking about introducing, not everything. And we have QMV on several points already.
The EU army thing has been going about for years but there's feck all ever been done on it because NATO is the military force Europe joined into; seven years is nowhere near enough to create an EU army from whole cloth and get it up to NATO levels. And all that is assuming everyone else agrees with them. Of course Junker's going to push for all that, it's his job. Doesn't mean it's going to actually happen. Feck's sakes, you'd sooner believe that all our financial woes here were down to people scrounging off the dole like Leo says, rather than Fianna Fail deciding on a golf course that we should guarantee all the bondholders when the economy went to the wall and pay for it from the exchequer.

As to more integration, quick question, who's the more professional bunch at running countries, the lads* in Brussels or the lads* in the Dail?

Because frankly, if I had to choose, I wouldn't choose the Dail. Brussels might leave you with more rules to follow, but Leinster House wouldn't leave you with a pot to piss in.




* I know, but I hate "folks" and can you find me an informal third person plural in english that doesn't sound like I'm trying to start a fight or starring in the tellytubbies, or both?

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

Because frankly, if I had to choose, I wouldn't choose the Dail. Brussels might leave you with more rules to follow, but Leinster House wouldn't leave you with a pot to piss in.

The ECBs insistence (dogged insistence) that Ireland pay the bondholders wouldn't endear them to me either.

One shower of sh*ts create the problem and another milk it leading to some of the toughest austerity in decades.

gunny123

Sparks wrote: »

So the veto thing is specifically relating to the common commercial tax rates they're talking about introducing, not everything. And we have QMV on several points already.
The EU army thing has been going about for years but there's feck all ever been done on it because NATO is the military force Europe joined into; seven years is nowhere near enough to create an EU army from whole cloth and get it up to NATO levels. And all that is assuming everyone else agrees with them. Of course Junker's going to push for all that, it's his job. Doesn't mean it's going to actually happen. Feck's sakes, you'd sooner believe that all our financial woes here were down to people scrounging off the dole like Leo says, rather than Fianna Fail deciding on a golf course that we should guarantee all the bondholders when the economy went to the wall and pay for it from the exchequer.

As to more integration, quick question, who's the more professional bunch at running countries, the lads* in Brussels or the lads* in the Dail?

Because frankly, if I had to choose, I wouldn't choose the Dail. Brussels might leave you with more rules to follow, but Leinster House wouldn't leave you with a pot to piss in.




* I know, but I hate "folks" and can you find me an informal third person plural in english that doesn't sound like I'm trying to start a fight or starring in the tellytubbies, or both?

It seems he has his knife out for Ireland and the low tax we have for American multinationals. As for Brussels vs Dail, sorry but i'll stick with the dail. The eu was ok when it was just a common market, but the united state of Europe ? No thank you. 700 years of English rule, a brief stint of home rule and now hand power to Brussels/Berlin ? Again no thank you. I know the Dail can be a farce, but is the Eu parliament any better ? What voice would our country with such a tiny population have against the likes of Germany and France ? None.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

Just seen on the news, JC Juncker and Verhofstade in the European parliament saying they are happy that the UK is leaving the EU, and now they can plan for further integration, more countries using the Euro. An end to the veto, so all countries have to accept Eu law, no country can opt out. The most worrying is though a European defence force, or eu army.

“By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European defence union,” he said. “We need it. And Nato wants it.” - Juncker

Seeing as we have are neutral and have kept out of everything apart from peacekeeping, what do you think of the Irish army morphing into the eu army ?

Remember a treaty of 1000 plus pages that Bertie Aherne told us not to bother reading?As he hadn't read it himself either..??Well, in those 1000 plus pages in a few paragraphs was Ireland selling away our "netraulatity" and command of our defence forces. In fact, we lost control of them this year on May 31st!!
So we ourselves signed away our neutrality after being told to vote again on it,and Ireland,you are in the EU army now!:D
The Bigger question to be asked is for a so called peaceful organisation, WHY does the EU need an army in the first place?

Gorgeousgeorge

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Remember a treaty of 1000 plus pages that Bertie Aherne told us not to bother reading?As he hadn't read it himself either..??Well, in those 1000 plus pages in a few paragraphs was Ireland selling away our "netraulatity" and command of our defence forces. In fact, we lost control of them this year on May 31st!!
So we ourselves signed away our neutrality after being told to vote again on it,and Ireland,you are in the EU army now!:D
The Bigger question to be asked is for a so called peaceful organisation, WHY does the EU need an army in the first place?

Hi grizzly can you provide a reference for the above im highly interested and want to go reading thanks

Grizzly 45

Article 42.7.EU mutual defence clause
.States however“Shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States”

This means that countries with long-standing traditions of neutrality, like Ireland or Sweden, are not required to break these.

However seeing how slavishly we obey everything from the EU, I'm sure we would throw this out in a heartbeat if our dear leaders snapped their fingers. Despite us voting for Ireland keeping our "neutrality". Not to mind support with the money of the European Defence Agency, and participation in the various EU Rapid Reaction Force, would suggest we are losing our neutrality by a death of 10,000 cuts.
Trying to find you the specific article on this, so it might take a bit of time.

Sparks

They're not legally able to do so quite so fast Grizzly, we'd have to vote to change things (specifically a referendum because it would be giving EU law precedence over our constitution and only a referendum can do that).

Whether we vote for that or not is another thing, but it's hard to say it's unfair if you had an informed vote on the matter.

gunny123

Sparks wrote: »

They're not legally able to do so quite so fast Grizzly, we'd have to vote to change things (specifically a referendum because it would be giving EU law precedence over our constitution and only a referendum can do that).

Whether we vote for that or not is another thing, but it's hard to say it's unfair if you had an informed vote on the matter.

Oh thats easy Sparks, i simply vote no to whatever the EU ask, because i distrust the barstewards.

Cass

They are saying the sick bastard that carried out the attacks in law vegas was anti Trump and a member/supporter of antifa (the left wing nutjob association) and it was heralded as their [antifa's] opening salvo in a "Civil War".

Way too early to start speculating, but if you think they are not capable of thinking like that well look what a "nice", "polite", "peace loving" lefty said only hours after the attack.

Sparks

That one is one of the known fake stories Cass : http://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/business/las-vegas-shooting-fake-news.html