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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    "When a society is utterly corrupt.It is best to do likewise."
    Marquis De Sade
    And here is now the fundamental problem in Irish society.Corruption at the top always comes down hill.If our leaders are getting away with it, why shouldn't the man on the street? It has got so bad now that if you want to beat staying a weekend on a trolley in our hospitals or get to see a doctor faster in casualty, have a freakin brown paper envelope with a few 50 notes in it! I have actually the first-hand experience of this when my mother took sick at the beginning of the year down in a certain hospital in Limerick, and we did the weekend trolly camp out .:mad:
    Your society is at a dangerous point when those sworn to uphold the law, consider themselves above the law and can use the law to absolve themselves and their circles from prosecution.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Cass wrote: »
    .............. we have TDs and other saying its not criminal.
    Not only has she [O'Sullivan] done nothing wrong, but she is a credit according to a woman who has done this and this.

    Swear to God when i read it i was caught between this:

    47883UNILAD-imageoptim-vom.gif



    .............. and this:

    2rRtLL8.gif
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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    With friends like her, who needs enemies ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    An Irish solution to an Irish problem.

    Sit tight till November, collect 300,000 Euro. plus 100,000 Euro per year for life.

    https://www.businesspost.ie/news/garda-chief-weeks-away-bumper-e300000-payout-397414


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    An Irish solution to an Irish problem.

    Sit tight till November, collect 300,000 Euro. plus 100,000 Euro per year for life.

    https://www.businesspost.ie/news/garda-chief-weeks-away-bumper-e300000-payout-397414
    Subscribed article.

    Well it goes to show Irish women in power are no better, or less corrupt, or competent than their male colleuges. Its simply a case of " Idiots doing idiot things because they are idiots! "[Archer]

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Announced about two hours ago that she is stepping down next month.

    I particularly like this bit:
    Ms O’Sullivan said she was stepping down because the “unending cycle” of investigations and inquiries meant she could not devote enough time to bring about the “deep cultural and structural” reforms required to modernise An Garda

    IOW she is stepping down because she is being asked to explain herself, her actions, and those of the people under her command. So once she is asked to be accountable she gets out?
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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Where have we seen this "stepping down" before the fire got too hot?...Donegal with the Barron case?...Or was it in the /high court with falsified firearms applications?Maybe it was her predecessor?Or was he fired....?Been so many it's becoming hard to keep track of these antics.:rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    Typical Irish, make a balls of it and then wake up one morning to a 300k cheque on the mat. I wonder will she have to take a job in tesco's as a security guard, or do a bit of bouncing in coppers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭ezra_


    I think her lump sum works out at c. €0.60 per additional false breath test.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    Just seen on the news, JC Juncker and Verhofstade in the European parliament saying they are happy that the UK is leaving the EU, and now they can plan for further integration, more countries using the Euro. An end to the veto, so all countries have to accept Eu law, no country can opt out. The most worrying is though a European defence force, or eu army.

    “By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European defence union,” he said. “We need it. And Nato wants it.” - Juncker

    Seeing as we have are neutral and have kept out of everything apart from peacekeeping, what do you think of the Irish army morphing into the eu army ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    So the veto thing is specifically relating to the common commercial tax rates they're talking about introducing, not everything. And we have QMV on several points already.
    The EU army thing has been going about for years but there's feck all ever been done on it because NATO is the military force Europe joined into; seven years is nowhere near enough to create an EU army from whole cloth and get it up to NATO levels. And all that is assuming everyone else agrees with them. Of course Junker's going to push for all that, it's his job. Doesn't mean it's going to actually happen. Feck's sakes, you'd sooner believe that all our financial woes here were down to people scrounging off the dole like Leo says, rather than Fianna Fail deciding on a golf course that we should guarantee all the bondholders when the economy went to the wall and pay for it from the exchequer.

    As to more integration, quick question, who's the more professional bunch at running countries, the lads* in Brussels or the lads* in the Dail?

    Because frankly, if I had to choose, I wouldn't choose the Dail. Brussels might leave you with more rules to follow, but Leinster House wouldn't leave you with a pot to piss in.




    * I know, but I hate "folks" and can you find me an informal third person plural in english that doesn't sound like I'm trying to start a fight or starring in the tellytubbies, or both?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Sparks wrote: »
    Because frankly, if I had to choose, I wouldn't choose the Dail. Brussels might leave you with more rules to follow, but Leinster House wouldn't leave you with a pot to piss in.
    The ECBs insistence (dogged insistence) that Ireland pay the bondholders wouldn't endear them to me either.

    One shower of sh*ts create the problem and another milk it leading to some of the toughest austerity in decades.
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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    Sparks wrote: »
    So the veto thing is specifically relating to the common commercial tax rates they're talking about introducing, not everything. And we have QMV on several points already.
    The EU army thing has been going about for years but there's feck all ever been done on it because NATO is the military force Europe joined into; seven years is nowhere near enough to create an EU army from whole cloth and get it up to NATO levels. And all that is assuming everyone else agrees with them. Of course Junker's going to push for all that, it's his job. Doesn't mean it's going to actually happen. Feck's sakes, you'd sooner believe that all our financial woes here were down to people scrounging off the dole like Leo says, rather than Fianna Fail deciding on a golf course that we should guarantee all the bondholders when the economy went to the wall and pay for it from the exchequer.

    As to more integration, quick question, who's the more professional bunch at running countries, the lads* in Brussels or the lads* in the Dail?

    Because frankly, if I had to choose, I wouldn't choose the Dail. Brussels might leave you with more rules to follow, but Leinster House wouldn't leave you with a pot to piss in.




    * I know, but I hate "folks" and can you find me an informal third person plural in english that doesn't sound like I'm trying to start a fight or starring in the tellytubbies, or both?


    It seems he has his knife out for Ireland and the low tax we have for American multinationals. As for Brussels vs Dail, sorry but i'll stick with the dail. The eu was ok when it was just a common market, but the united state of Europe ? No thank you. 700 years of English rule, a brief stint of home rule and now hand power to Brussels/Berlin ? Again no thank you. I know the Dail can be a farce, but is the Eu parliament any better ? What voice would our country with such a tiny population have against the likes of Germany and France ? None.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    gunny123 wrote: »
    Just seen on the news, JC Juncker and Verhofstade in the European parliament saying they are happy that the UK is leaving the EU, and now they can plan for further integration, more countries using the Euro. An end to the veto, so all countries have to accept Eu law, no country can opt out. The most worrying is though a European defence force, or eu army.

    “By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European defence union,” he said. “We need it. And Nato wants it.” - Juncker

    Seeing as we have are neutral and have kept out of everything apart from peacekeeping, what do you think of the Irish army morphing into the eu army ?

    Remember a treaty of 1000 plus pages that Bertie Aherne told us not to bother reading?As he hadn't read it himself either..??Well, in those 1000 plus pages in a few paragraphs was Ireland selling away our "netraulatity" and command of our defence forces. In fact, we lost control of them this year on May 31st!!
    So we ourselves signed away our neutrality after being told to vote again on it,and Ireland,you are in the EU army now!:D
    The Bigger question to be asked is for a so called peaceful organisation, WHY does the EU need an army in the first place?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭Gorgeousgeorge


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Remember a treaty of 1000 plus pages that Bertie Aherne told us not to bother reading?As he hadn't read it himself either..??Well, in those 1000 plus pages in a few paragraphs was Ireland selling away our "netraulatity" and command of our defence forces. In fact, we lost control of them this year on May 31st!!
    So we ourselves signed away our neutrality after being told to vote again on it,and Ireland,you are in the EU army now!:D
    The Bigger question to be asked is for a so called peaceful organisation, WHY does the EU need an army in the first place?

    Hi grizzly can you provide a reference for the above im highly interested and want to go reading thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Article 42.7.EU mutual defence clause
    .States however“Shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States”

    This means that countries with long-standing traditions of neutrality, like Ireland or Sweden, are not required to break these.


    However seeing how slavishly we obey everything from the EU, I'm sure we would throw this out in a heartbeat if our dear leaders snapped their fingers. Despite us voting for Ireland keeping our "neutrality". Not to mind support with the money of the European Defence Agency, and participation in the various EU Rapid Reaction Force, would suggest we are losing our neutrality by a death of 10,000 cuts.
    Trying to find you the specific article on this, so it might take a bit of time.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    They're not legally able to do so quite so fast Grizzly, we'd have to vote to change things (specifically a referendum because it would be giving EU law precedence over our constitution and only a referendum can do that).

    Whether we vote for that or not is another thing, but it's hard to say it's unfair if you had an informed vote on the matter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    Sparks wrote: »
    They're not legally able to do so quite so fast Grizzly, we'd have to vote to change things (specifically a referendum because it would be giving EU law precedence over our constitution and only a referendum can do that).

    Whether we vote for that or not is another thing, but it's hard to say it's unfair if you had an informed vote on the matter.

    Oh thats easy Sparks, i simply vote no to whatever the EU ask, because i distrust the barstewards.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    They are saying the sick bastard that carried out the attacks in law vegas was anti Trump and a member/supporter of antifa (the left wing nutjob association) and it was heralded as their [antifa's] opening salvo in a "Civil War".

    Way too early to start speculating, but if you think they are not capable of thinking like that well look what a "nice", "polite", "peace loving" lefty said only hours after the attack.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    That one is one of the known fake stories Cass : http://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/business/las-vegas-shooting-fake-news.html


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    Cass wrote: »
    They are saying the sick bastard that carried out the attacks in law vegas was anti Trump and a member/supporter of antifa (the left wing nutjob association) and it was heralded as their [antifa's] opening salvo in a "Civil War".

    Way too early to start speculating, but if you think they are not capable of thinking like that well look what a "nice", "polite", "peace loving" lefty said only hours after the attack.

    Like Ryan, Hamilton, Bird et al, they will never really know why it happened. Someone who's life has veered off track, feeling a grudge towards society in general and wallop, a spree killing.

    Am i the only one here who fears waking up one morning to a news flash of someone committing a shooting atrocity here ?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Sparks wrote: »
    I don't believe anything, except the person responsible is a sick coward, as it's too early to know and the story is still unfolding. However i sure as chips won't be taking the NYTimes, Snopes, CBS, CNN or any other medias word that he wasn't associated to any group. If it turns out he wasn't then so be it as it won't change what happened nor my opinion of such a person.

    The same "sources" have lied in the past and have a true left wing agenda and that includes Snopes, the so called fact checker website.

    TBH now is not the time for politics and it sickens me that once again with the situation still being investigated, and very few facts available that the usual brigade have already started politicizing this for their own end.

    I've watched reports from CNN, SKY News, and other media outlets and the hyper sensationalism being trotted out is unbelievable. I'm not talking small, pedantic issues, but honest to God exaggerations and simply blowing things out of proportions. One reporter from SKY news said the "gunman" was using military grade equipment such as a bipod and scope. Another "reporter" said the weapons used had a rate of fire of over 2,000 rounds per minute.

    This causes people to believe such things and leaves us with an uphill battle at best or truly horrible legislation at worse. Think of the 5 round mag limit on 22 pistols here or the mag limit the EU just brought in.

    In short they are blaming whole sections of society for the actions of a few or in this case a single individual.
    gunny123 wrote: »
    Someone who's life has veered off track, feeling a grudge towards society in general and wallop, a spree killing.
    That is the key point. You cannot legislate for the unpredictable.

    I hesitate to use the term unpredictable for such a tragedy but no amount of legislation can prevent it. To eliminate any possible future tragedies you need to ban lorries, guns, knives, vans, limit internet content, censor TV, control media, etc, etc. IOW you'd want something between North Korea and Honduras where civilian rights and gun ownership doesn't exist but has the worst civil rights in the world (NK) and the highest murder rate in the world (Hon).
    Am i the only one here who fears waking up one morning to a news flash of someone committing a shooting atrocity here ?
    I'd hope so [that you're the only one].

    There has never been such an atrocity here and we as a community have a much different attitude and approach to shooting and firearms than our American brethren. With shooting sports being the oldest organised sport (older than the GAA which is around 130 years) and no such incident being recorded, that is over 150 years without an ounce of trouble.
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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    Just because a spree has never happened here before, doesn't mean it cannot, or will not happen. To think otherwise is illogical, if you accept, as you have, that people can be unpredictable, get upset, be under stresses and pressures with life.

    The UK has a very similar gun culture to our own, similar lifestyle, and they have had three mass murders in my memory.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I am not saying it cannot happen for the very reasons you have outlined, but i do not worry about it for the reasons i gave.

    We have a completely different attitude to firearms, and the laws to prevent and prosecute such crimes already exists. No amount of legislation will prevent such a shooting, but my point about the history of our sport/relation with firearms is that in over 150 years we have no had one. In Barry's two terms there were over 160 mass shootings (some dispute this and class some shootings as multiple victim shootings so not mass, but they still occurred), 20 for bush jnr, 23 for Clinton, 12 for Bush snr, 11 for Reagan. So from 1981 to 2017 (36 years) there was 226 multiple victim shootings in the states. In Ireland from 1864 to 2017 (153 years) we had none.

    Our thinking with regard to firearms comes from a difference in social aspects too. We don't have any right to them, and as a society we seem to have a "feck it" then move on attitude and not "who can i hurt for no reason". Hell when you put "cooling off period" into your gun laws you know there might be an issue that needs addressing.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    They are saying the sick bastard that carried out the attacks in law vegas was anti Trump and a member/supporter of antifa (the left wing nutjob association) and it was heralded as their [antifa's] opening salvo in a "Civil War".

    Way too early to start speculating, but if you think they are not capable of thinking like that well look what a "nice", "polite", "peace loving" lefty said only hours after the attack.

    What is utterly sickening is, of course, hardly had the bodies hit the floor "Cersei Lannister", aka Hillary Clinton[She identifies with this character in GOT, an incestuous, psychopath power hungry biatch ...Hillary that is..Think Ceresi wouldn't want to be associated with Hillary Clinton TBH.]
    Has tried to make political capital on the proposed legislation to make silencers in the US a non-class three item. Class3 items are things like Full auto anything, destructive devices, sawed-off shotguns, and silencers under the 1934 National firearms act. claims the shooter would have killed more people had he being using a silencer...FS! In a situation like that, with the screams and chaos, a silencer is about as useful as a half door on a submarine.

    One thing that I wonder will it come out...Was this guy on anti-depressants?This seems to be a continuous thread thru mass shootings in the USA from Huberty in San Diego in 1984 to the present day.They were all on medication for various mental problems when they should have been in institutions.Huberty practically begged a psycharitac board in San Diego to get him into a place as he believed he was likely to self-harm or others.
    [ In a previous life,in a country far,far away I actually got to read the original San Ysidro PD report on the whole shooting incident and the background to it.It was a disaster waiting to happen].

    American mental health treatment is absolutely shocking historically as well as today."One flew over the Cuckoos nest" was luxury accommodation and treatment to some asylums in the 1900s to 1970s.Stories of brain lobotomies gone wrong and other experimental treatments and malpractice suits abound to the present day. And that's where big pharma stepped in... Think the NRA have lobbying power in Washington??Piffle compared to the drug company lobby. Solution give the people wonder drugs, chemical nut suits...Alot cheaper than keeping them locked up in the big house for the State, and hey they can function out in society, while pushing their shopping carts full of their possessions around the place and mumbling at the big bugs bunny following them.:rolleyes:
    Is your kid just being a normal growing up, hormone imbalanced, mopey teen?Or do they have AHAD and "issues"?Get them to your head shrinker and if they are a bit odd get them on a course of the new wonder drug.Because quite frankly, you suck as parents and just aren't arsed to interact with your kids to find out whats wrong..What happened to Harris and Klebold of Littleton fame.Both were test subjects for a multinational drug company.Their medical records are sealed by the US govt. Something like 30% of US children under 21 are on meds for" behavioural issues".So how many adults are then on happy pills over there?And it seems that if they come off them for whatever reason shooting sprees happen. I'll bet any money this guy was on some intresting meds too.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    In Barry's two terms there were over 160 mass shootings (some dispute this and class some shootings as multiple victim shootings so not mass, but they still occurred), 20 for bush jnr, 23 for Clinton, 12 for Bush snr, 11 for Reagan. So from 1981 to 2017 (36 years) there was 226 multiple victim shootings in the states. In Ireland from 1864 to 2017 (153 years) we had none.

    Remember too that the FBI classify, as do the anti-gun orgs a mass shooting involves four or more injured or dead from gunshot. In that case the 4th of July weekend in Chicago this year[2017] was the biggest unreported shooting in the US.Over 150 gang-related deaths in 72 hours.In the city with the most stringent gun control laws too...
    I suppose the closest we in Ireland have had to such, has been either the Austrian ,Gert Isenborger or Abbylara?
    Our thinking with regard to firearms comes from a difference in social aspects too. We don't have any right to them, and as a society we seem to have a "feck it" then move on attitude and not "who can i hurt for no reason". Hell when you put "cooling off period" into your gun laws you know there might be an issue that needs addressing.

    Oh no...We brood and let it fester our psyche and build it into a feud that can span generations. "Yer family ate our families last rotten spud out of our haggard back in Black 47 and we'll get ye for ratting us out to the landlord to save your own hides! May our future generations avenge us !" US Irish can carry grudges for long past ills with the best of them,like the Scillians or Serbs, and they are in the petty league compared to the Corsicans..However we seem to be getting abit more with it like most civilised countries,and just get riled up and stab each other instead,or literally kick the brains out of each other. Same problems,different methods of sorting it i guess...

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    The thing is you get rubbish like Clinton ( which our glorious state broadcaster spent much money sending the young fogey over to interview) banging on about the availability of firearms, when just across the border in Canada, there are a huge amount of firearms in civilian ownership but with much less violence. Ditto Switzerland, which is basically an army in itself, very little gun violence. So it's something in the mindset of the American people, that leads to huge amounts of murders.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Has tried to make political capital on the proposed legislation to make silencers in the US a non-class three item. .
    She tried something similar in relation to Puerto Rico but that also backfired on her as can be seen:

    6034073

    I'm also watching reports from aid workers and people on the ground and a small few media outlets about how aid and relief is there and is large enough quantities with more coming, but the Mayor of Puerto Rico is not liaising with FEMA, spreading falsehoods, and also the union for the drivers/workers that distribute the aid are involved in a dispute over pay and are basically holding the place to ransom. IOW they won't deliver the aid unless they get paid an exorbitant amount of money.

    Again you have to take everything you're told with a pinch of salt, but people (the ones affected) are saying this, FEMA are the ones saying the Mayor has not liaised with them once, she has said as much herself, and there are pallets upon pallets of aid sitting in the background of all reports so there seems to be some bit of truth to it.
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Oh no...We brood and let it fester our psyche and build it into a feud that can span generations.
    It's hardly the Hatfields V McCoys, but does happen however it sure as hell isn't what we've seen on TV the last few days or even close.
    gunny123 wrote: »
    Ditto Switzerland, which is basically an army in itself, very little gun violence.
    As i spoke to Switzerland above and how they have nearly 25% gun ownership rate with a low gun crime rate by comparison and how Honduras that bans its citizens from owning guns altogether has the highest murder rate in the world.
    So it's something in the mindset of the American people, that leads to huge amounts of murders.
    The guns are not evil in themselves. They are inanimate objects that are used by evil people. The truck attacks, knife attacks, acid attacks, bombings, etc. show that guns are not always the weapon of choice and where they are not as easily available these evil people will find other means to do harm.

    I honestly believe that given the choice people intent on doing harm will not go for a gun as the other methods used thus far have proven to cause greater harm and damage as well as instill a greater level of fear in people which is the desired effect from such attacks.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    As I said about mass shooters being on or off their Meds and the ****ty mental health services, handed over to big Pharma in the USA?

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-in-june/

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Again you have to take everything you're told with a pinch of salt, but people (the ones affected) are saying this, FEMA are the ones saying the Mayor has not liaised with them once, she has said as much herself, and there are pallets upon pallets of aid sitting in the background of all reports so there seems to be some bit of truth to it.

    Nor is it helped in the fact that the majority of Puerto Rican truckers belong to the Teamsters union,[ one of the most Mob influenced trade unions known in US history] and are holding out for a 50 dollar per hour payment to deliver aid egged on by this governor....:mad:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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