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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Can someone explain this to me.

    7 months ago they were told to take it and now they are facing court for not taking it.

    So far they (Irish Gov) have spent over €3,200,000 on solicitors and Barrister fees fighting this. Now i've heard the so called reasons such as:
    1. Accepting it would imply Ireland, illegally, gave Apple tax breaks
    2. It could risk Apple and other companies pulling out of Ireland
    3. Apple, if they pulled out of Ireland, could take 5,000+ jobs with them
    Well excuse me, and this is where i need it explained to me, but so fecking what.
    1. They must have done something, whether illegal or not (which is not my call), for someone to come up with the number of €13 BILLION. Not million, or even hundred million, but BILLION.
    2. Ireland has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the world (somewhere around 8th or 9th if i remember the article). So if Apple want to pull out and take 15%, 20% or how about 35% in their home country then have at it. See how long it is before they come running back after 2, 5, or 10 years of paying billions in extra tax.
    3. Doing some quick math, and i'm no economist, it would take 269 years for 5,000 people on welfare (at the current rate of unemployment/jobseekers) to make up the €13 billion owed by Apple. Let that sink in for a bit. 269 YEARS.

    The money, nearly 8% of GDP, could end the housing crisis, pay for the national education plan, pay for hospitals, roads, healthcare, Gardaí, Defense forces, and all this before the estimated €6 billion in interest on that money.


    As said i'm not an economist and i don't pretend to understand the intricate details of finance, but given what Michall Noonan has done with Vulture funds, NAMA to Project Eagle Sales, PAC threats (allegedly), Shell Oil to Sea, the "Grace" case, etc, etc. and of course the testimony of Jonathon Sugarman (see vid) how much do you trust what he has to say. Now i know it's Paschal Donohue, but all this cam eon Noonans watch (or most of it).

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    "Taxes are for the little people" - Leona Helmsley.

    Thats all you need to know really Cass. "We don't want to pay any tax, and if you force us to, we will pull out of Ireland, and all those highly skilled, well payed people will be on the dole". Thats basically it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    gunny123 wrote: »
    "Taxes are for the little people" - Leona Helmsley.

    Thats all you need to know really Cass. "We don't want to pay any tax, and if you force us to, we will pull out of Ireland, and all those highly skilled, well payed people will be on the dole". Thats basically it.

    "Doing a DELL"


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    We wont see a RED CENT of that money here, so dont be planning anything.It will go to Europe in ,fines and other hoover up manouvers to be distributed for "the common good."

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    All the more reason to move if you are, to New Zealand.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Jesus wept.

    Our unelected leader was on the radio a few days back, and i quote, "calling for banks to rectify the tracker mortgage issue, and apologise to customers". I see today he is quoted in the Times as saying that if the banks continued to ignore the scandal of tracker mortgages he would instruct Paschal to bring in the bank bosses to "admonish" them.

    Seriously!! I mean WTF.

    Admonish them, for theft on a grand scale. If i steal money i go to jail. They steal it from tens of thousands of people and are asked, nicely, by the government to get it sorted and apologise for doing it.

    Why in the name of all that is holy are these people not being arrested, prosecuted and jailed, the banks fined heavily, the customers refunded immediately and their original mortgage rate reinstated.

    It is beyond me how this is allowed to go on. We sit back and take it EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    People have gone from being able to afford their homes to not being able, to struggling, to being in debt, to loosing sleep and incurring health issues because of this. I don't doubt there has been repossessions and possible suicide/suicidal thoughts because of this. And what do we get from our so called leaders? A "call" for the banks to fix this.

    A thorough disgrace.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    If there was such a thing as a "Class Action" legal procedure in this country, they would be more easily brought to heel.

    As it is, every single individual would have to take them to court individually.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I'm not legally minded so don't know the details but if you commit a crime the state (via the various departments) arrest you, charge you, prosecute you and imprisons you.

    A person bringing a lawsuit would be civil and not criminal. So only the state could bring the people responsible to task for their crimes.

    While class actions don't exist and people would, as you said, have to sue on an individual basis, it's up to the state to investigate, arrest, charge and prosecute the people involved. So if it's not being done it's not because you (the general you) don't choose to do it, follow it up or press charges, it's because the state hasn't done it.

    Might be saying this arse ways, but you get the idea. It's not up to the people that were robbed, it's the state's responsibility.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    Jesus wept.

    Our unelected leader was on the radio a few days back, and i quote, "calling for banks to rectify the tracker mortgage issue, and apologise to customers". I see today he is quoted in the Times as saying that if the banks continued to ignore the scandal of tracker mortgages he would instruct Paschal to bring in the bank bosses to "admonish" them.

    Seriously!! I mean WTF.

    Admonish them, for theft on a grand scale. If i steal money i go to jail. They steal it from tens of thousands of people and are asked, nicely, by the government to get it sorted and apologise for doing it.

    Why in the name of all that is holy are these people not being arrested, prosecuted and jailed, the banks fined heavily, the customers refunded immediately and their original mortgage rate reinstated.

    It is beyond me how this is allowed to go on. We sit back and take it EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    People have gone from being able to afford their homes to not being able, to struggling, to being in debt, to loosing sleep and incurring health issues because of this. I don't doubt there has been repossessions and possible suicide/suicidal thoughts because of this. And what do we get from our so called leaders? A "call" for the banks to fix this.

    A thorough disgrace.

    Simply because everyone in power here has their hands in each other's pockets and all the "people that be important" have their hands in there as well, so we have the great Irish circle jerk [off]. All these people meet and mingle in the same circles, events, society soirees, orgies, mistresses etc.You are not going to demand off your pals the banker that they cop on to themselves, or they will be doing a Bernie Madoff frogmarch from their office in the Docklands to a squad car. Elections are expensive things and come around pretty often, and that personal loan for your campaign mightn't be that easy to get once your pal is sitting in jail? why do you think massive personal debt suddenly became a govt problem, in reality, OUR, the taxpayer's problem on the night in Nov about 7 years ago?? The banks simply said to a man dying of cancer and was unfit for the job."If we go down, the country and your govt is coming along for the ride!" Everyone has dirt on everyone else in these circles, and no one wants to be seen as the bad guy and possibly involved in some scandal.It's why incompetence is awarded here and not punished.throw someone else's money at the problem and it goes away..
    It's why we will never have a Trump-like figure in Ireland.Anyone with enough money to challenge the system, will be bought and sold by the system that created their wealth here.Unless someone wins the biggest euro millions possible and is patriotic or crazy enough to want to change Irish politics.if you have that sort of money, would you waste it or be arsed enough to do it or be bothered?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    its shocking....if I walk into a bank and take 17,000 im a thief and will be hunted by the Law.

    If the bank does it......No problem??? WTF, it brings back to me the words of a woody gutherie song "Pretty boy floyd"

    "As through this world I've wandered
    I've seen lots of funny men;
    Some will rob you with a six-gun,
    And some with a fountain pen.

    And as through your life you travel,
    Yes, as through your life you roam,
    You won't never see an outlaw
    Drive a family from their home."............


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    I see that The Herald are reporting that the gun carried by the career criminal in Tallagh yesterday was a "9mm 8 guage".

    This must be a rare beast indeed! Especially as the photos show something resembling a MP 40.

    :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭juice1304


    Interesting it is a PPS43 from looking at the photo, so it could have come from pretty much anywhere.
    Goes to show how simple it is for petty criminals to purchase illegal firearms though and how useless the majority of the laws in Ireland are.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 314 ✭✭Walter Mittys Brother


    Legislation is there getting judges to give the mandatory sentence might help


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Our criminals sure do have some exotic firepower here in 9mm 8 gauge.:rolleyes: And literally if someone is getting their hands on old Russian "burp guns"
    Isn't that the ultimate irony..Imagine if Las Vegas had been shot with a genuine full auto anything..What sort of an outcry there would have been if the shooter had rebuilt a "parts kit" into a reactivated gun.Yet here with the strictest gun control in the EU, it's almost part and parcel and Ho hum! that gangs shoot at each other here these days with full auto stuff on our streets..

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    Shocking waste of resources and now Garda time.
    He had a gun, he had showed intent, taxpayer saves 70K per year for the hotel on the North Circular road.

    The press are ill informed muppets..


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 Resistance is futile


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    I see that The Herald are reporting that the gun carried by the career criminal in Tallagh yesterday was a "9mm 8 guage".

    This must be a rare beast indeed! Especially as the photos show something resembling a MP 40.

    :confused:

    Not much research done there . I'm not an expert but it look like an old British Army Sterling 9 mm Typical journalists trying for the explosive quote


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    Not much research done there . I'm not an expert but it look like an old British Army Sterling 9 mm Typical journalists trying for the explosive quote

    No checked it out definitely its a 9mm 8 gauge, looks like a suppressed variant dating from the 1970's. Id say it came from the batch that was stolen and buried by the UVFF. If you look a bit closer you can see that its designed for an under slung PIAT.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Lads,

    Just letting ye know i'e moved the thread into the "Off Topic" thread, here, as it's not sporting related. You can discuss it on this thread.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Uinseann_16


    Its an old pps-43 it aint a 9mm its a 7.62x25 tokarev (like the old tt-33 pistols)


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 Resistance is futile


    Is it fully automatic or semi . Somebody's not doing their job properly in a country with some of the toughest firearms legislation in Europe if not the world . Still you'd think a journalist would do a bit of research before calling it a 9 mm eight gauge


  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Uinseann_16


    Full auto fires from an open bolt its a 7.62x25 tokarev a bit more lively than a 9mm actually i think it would pierce soft body armor for pistol calibers
    Heaps of these guns just like all soviet arms of the time were produced for the eastern front war against the Nazi s they were made after too the finns made some but they were a upgraded(most Finnish firearms of the periods were improved Russian designs) with straight mags. the Chinese made em for a while under some type designation you'll see some north Korean troops still using them
    There are probably thousands of them in circulation in Europe hidden in roofs and basements like most WW2 small arms
    If you want more info go to youtube and visit the -forgotten weapons- channel


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Still you'd think a journalist would do a bit of research before calling it a 9 mm eight gauge

    Never under estimate the stupidity of of your opposition. Case in point:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Its an old pps-43 it aint a 9mm its a 7.62x25 Tokarev (like the old tt-33 pistols)

    Err Nope! They can be converted to 9mm.The Germans did so with tens of thousands of them and reissued them as "Beute waffen"[Trans captured weapons] MP 717.Changed out the barrel to 9mm, and widened the ejector window abit more as the Tokarev cartridge is close to the Mauser 7.63X25 the precursor of the 9mm.All of a 3 min operation to change calibres back and forth. My German grandfather used one on the Eastern front, said may German soldiers picked them up as secondary weapons of the Bolsheviks for up close and personal encounters.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Is it fully automatic or semi . Somebody's not doing their job properly in a country with some of the toughest firearms legislation in Europe if not the world . Still you'd think a journalist would do a bit of research before calling it a 9 mm eight gauge

    It's full auto only.That's why it was simpler to make than even the British STEN gun, which is a pretty simple gun as it is.Dont ever expect Irish gun laws or journalists to work.Thats axiomatic neither do.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Uinseann_16


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Err Nope! They can be converted to 9mm.The Germans did so with tens of thousands of them and reissued them as "Beute waffen"[Trans captured weapons] MP 717.Changed out the barrel to 9mm, and widened the ejector window abit more as the Tokarev cartridge is close to the Mauser 7.63X25 the precursor of the 9mm.All of a 3 min operation to change calibres back and forth. My German grandfather used one on the Eastern front, said may German soldiers picked them up as secondary weapons of the Bolsheviks for up close and personal encounters.

    Ya my mistake didnt realize they had 9mm conversions radom in poland seems to have made em in 9mm from factory too


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    And a very good pistol was made there too.Another Beutewaffe of the Wehrmacht.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    I was lucky enough to fire a radom pistol in 9mm years back before ahern did his butchery. Nice pistol, looked like a Browning in design, or clone. I believe the Germans took over the radom works, as they did with fn and the Skoda works .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    They did,and kept making them in a simplified form until 1945 in the Steyr works in Austria.The Russians then took over Radom and made the pistol as well. One tough as nails pistol for it's time

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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