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Breaking Bad Episode 15: Granite State

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    #872
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Dman001 wrote: »
    Nope! But Jesse has only actually killed Gale (as far as I can recall, really need to rewatch). And, as best as I can remember, this was due to the fact that Walt's life was at stake at the time. Jesse's dilemma was does he live with the guilt of killing Gale, or live with the guilt of letting Walt die. We know that Jesse held some respect for Walt, and saw he somewhat as a father figure, which lead to his ultimate decision. Now, that still doesn't mean what he did was right at all. But we can respect the moral dilemma he faced. And he became "broken" after he killed him, it genuinely affected him.

    You say that Walt manipulated Jesse because he could. Does this make it okay, and excuse Walt's involvement in Jesse's actions?? I don't think so.


    I never suggested that.

    Several, if not all of the murders that Walter has been involved in have had moral or practical connotations. None have been for the sake of it. None can be condoned but you can see why he did it

    The feelings that Jesse had for walter were reciprocated for the most part.


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    #873
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Torqay wrote: »
    Don't forget Uncle Jack who did pretty much everything right until he spared the lives of Jesse and Walt. Seriously, how f***ing stupid was that? Two bullets, a good banker and a plane ticket was all he needed to enjoy the rest of his life on some island in the sun. ;)

    Lydia has also done everything by the book. She just needs to get her wabs out


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    #874
    Mousewar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    There but for the grace of god go I.
    I often think of that saying, not when I see some unwitting victim of some crime or tragedy, but when I see someone who has done wrong and been corrupted by evil. One of the strongest themes of BrBa is how easy it is for evil to take over your life and your being once you let it in - that honourable intentions can be usurped and perverted. I have a lot of sympathy for such people because I so easily see how I could end up following the same path were circumstances for me different.
    So if I can have sympathy for Walt who has cold-bloodedly had people murdered and who manipulated everyone around him - I can definitely have sympathy for Jessie whose crimes by any barometer are far less and which have far more mitigating factors than those of Walt.


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    #875
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    Lydia has also done everything by the book.

    Except maybe walking arund in the desert in 5" stiletto heels. :D


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    #876
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Torqay wrote: »
    Except maybe walking arund in the desert in 5" stiletto heels. :D


    True. That was a slip up


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    #877
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    Mousewar wrote: »
    There but for the grace of god go I.
    I often think of that saying, not when I see some unwitting victim of some crime or tragedy, but when I see someone who has done wrong and been corrupted by evil. One of the strongest themes of BrBa is how easy it is for evil to take over your life and your being once you let it in - that honourable intentions can be usurped and perverted. I have a lot of sympathy for such people because I so easily see how I could end up following the same path were circumstances for me different.
    So if I can have sympathy for Walt who has cold-bloodedly had people murdered and who manipulated everyone around him - I can definitely have sympathy for Jessie whose crimes by any barometer are far less and which have far more mitigating factors than those of Walt.[/QUOTE]


    You either have sympathy for both or neither.


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    #878
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    You either have sympathy for both or neither.

    Eh, no. Its not as black and white as that at all. If anything this show has shown us how blurred the lines can become between good and evil...Of course you can sympathy for one and not the other.


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    #879
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,239 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    You either have sympathy for both or neither.

    No. Degree matters. Circumstances matter. You shouldn't judge someone in Breaking Bad solely by their actions and not take the causes and effects into consideration. Jesse killing Gale is not equal to Tuco killing No-Doze. Hector Salamanca killing Gus' friend is not equal to Hank killing The Cousins.

    Degree matters, as does the characters' motivations, intentions, remorse and how they react.


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    #880
    Shout Dust
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Shout Dust


    greenflash wrote: »
    Because as much as Walt is breaking bad, Jesse is breaking good.

    But Jesse tried to burn down Walts house just a couple of episodes ago


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    #881
    trashcan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,907 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    Nobody with the exception of perhaps Marie.

    Walter is Walter.

    Jesse has committed crimes that do not deserve sympathy. Manipulated or not.

    Skyler was complicit. Her predicament is probably worse than she deserves but she is far from blame free. Again her own actions have compounded her problems as much as Walter's have.

    Hanks death was almost inevitable from the time he decided to go rogue so to speak. Hindsight is always 20\20 but he'd have done well to take Marie's advise. He knew his life was in danger from the moment he went after Walt given the circumstances.

    Marie has done little wrong and, as such, would deserve an element of sympathy.

    Saul is f**ked and he knows it. Hence his trip to Nebraska.

    Mike didn't deserve to go the way he did.

    Lydia is still an unknown quantity.

    The Nazis look to have a sh1tstorm coming their way

    Hang on, doesn't that undermine your argument re Jesse ? Mike committed far worse crimes than Jesse, and was perfectly willing to kill both Walter and Jesse on the say so of Gus remember ? Yet, you have sympathy for him, and Jesse deserves everything he gets ? Hmmmmm....

    If it's just because you preferred him as a character, then fair enough, but don't use the morality of peoples actions in that case.


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    #882
    Mousewar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    Nerdlingr wrote: »
    Eh, no. Its not as black and white as that at all. If anything this show has shown us how blurred the lines can become between good and evil...Of course you can sympathy for one and not the other.

    Not me that said that.


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    #883
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    Mousewar wrote: »
    Not me that said that.

    sorry. my mistake.. meant to quote the other post!* changed now!


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    #884
    Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother


    Just clearing up something here for a poster some pages ago... I was just throwing out the idea that maybe Gretchen's father offered Walt a job in this new company he was buying into (Madrigal) all those years ago. A mere Mystic Meg moment.


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    #885
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    trashcan wrote: »
    Hang on, doesn't that undermine your argument re Jesse ? Mike committed far worse crimes than Jesse, and was perfectly willing to kill both Walter and Jesse on the say so of Gus remember ? Yet, you have sympathy for him, and Jesse deserves everything he gets ? Hmmmmm....

    If it's just because you preferred him as a character, then fair enough, but don't use the morality of peoples actions in that case.


    How? I didn't commend mikes crimes. I just thought he didn't deserve to die in those particular circumstances. Mike doesn't garner sympathy from anyone in the same way Jesse seems to


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    #886
    A Primal Nut
    Registered Users Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    How? I didn't commend mikes crimes. I just thought he didn't deserve to die in those particular circumstances. Mike doesn't garner sympathy from anyone in the same way Jesse seems to

    Because Jesse shows remorse? And also that his current predicament is worse than anything Mike was exposed to.


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    #887
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    What's the earliest time this can be seen on netflix folks?


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    #888
    Chet T16
    Registered Users Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭Chet T16


    This one is already on there, last one i would say 9am monday


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    #889
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    Chet T16 wrote: »
    This one is already on there, last one i would say 9am monday

    Sleep mode must've already kicked in:o


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    #890
    Torqay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Shout Dust wrote: »
    But Jesse tried to burn down Walts house just a couple of episodes ago

    NywE8OR.jpg


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    #891
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    scamalert wrote: »
    I wonder why they didn't kill jessie yet,basically they achieved high percentage needed and color.So whats there left to learn from him,they could of easily killed him in last episode,since agreement was only one cook with Heisenberg.So its either they will keep jessie as last man standing-who will later kill himself overdose or smth.As keeping him to shoot just plain blank would not cause omg scene.

    Also walts car was left in the desert surely someone had to find and trace it back to area where hank was killed,as when walt was leaving he turned mirrors and you could clearly see two graves,and enough evidence to suspect some gang by the amount of bullets left in the place,otherwise authorities would be portrayed as bunch of clowns in entire series,even raided house would of provided some evidence,knowing that gang is mostly ex cons.Anyway this is a bit weak link in entire series when at most you see 2 agents working empire case,unless new mexico has 2 agents in total :pac:

    Why learn to cook when you have a slave it do if for free, and when the quality is essential to plans it get your leg over?

    Just because we haven't seen them discover the bodies doesn't mean they havnt been found - as you indicate finding them would be fairly easy. I would assume they have been found & funerals had already as it is unimportant to the rest of the story.

    The reason there were only 2 agents working the case is because it was unofficial for reasons that were obvious - and which Hank stated.


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    #892
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    Its a couple of years since I saw it so my memory might be hazy but didn't Walt and Gretchen have a thing going on and then she opted for elliot and that is why Walt bailed out of the company?

    It's been hinted at that Gretchen & Walt had "at thing" but it's never been made clear if they did or the circumstances under which he left Gray Matter.


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    #893
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    A Primal Nut wrote: »
    Because Jesse shows remorse? And also that his current predicament is worse than anything Mike was exposed to.


    So what?


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    #894
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    Jikashi wrote: »
    Wonder if the final twist of the series will involve the true identity of Flynn's unseen buddy Lewis

    I've seen Lewis. He's in Breaking Bad. You should watch it.


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    #895
    joe123
    Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭joe123


    Am I in the minority when I say that I like walt and dislike jesse?

    They had a good thing going with Gus but Jesse had to go and seek revenge on the two guys who killed the kid. Walt saved jesse at that point.


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    #896
    Killer_banana
    Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Killer_banana


    joe123 wrote: »
    Am I in the minority when I say that I like walt and dislike jesse?

    They had a good thing going with Gus but Jesse had to go and seek revenge on the two guys who killed the kid. Walt saved jesse at that point.

    I won't comment but Dean Norris has said anyone who still supports Walt is a 'sick ****'. :D


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    #897
    Jikashi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭Jikashi


    John Dodger wrote: »
    I've seen Lewis. He's in Breaking Bad. You should watch it.

    I was mistaken, as was pointed out several pages ago.
    He's a very very minor character who is mostly outside the scene or on the other end of a phone. When he does appear, it's for seconds at a time, by no consistent actor, in like two episodes, the last of which aired more than two years ago. Get your head out of your ass.


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    #898
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    tommy2bad wrote: »
    A lot of the gaps in plot and character development are down to the jumps in time. We are missing some exposition and sense of story arch. Could be just bad writing or needing to give a sense of urgency to a plot that is spread over 4 months or more. It's all their in the show but not as obvious as it could have been.
    Or it could be just that we expect too much from a TV show. Standards are high these days. You never had this kind of expectation for The Rockford Files or The Waltons!.

    What gaps?


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    #899
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A Primal Nut wrote: »
    Because Jesse shows remorse? And also that his current predicament is worse than anything Mike was exposed to.


    To be fair, we don't really know what Mike was exposed to prior to his debut in Breaking Bad (do we know much about his history?).

    He seems nonchalant throughout every appearance he's made, regardless of what he's doing. At some point in time he's obviously had something happen that's made him become emotionally detached to everything around him.


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    #900
    Jikashi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭Jikashi


    Deleted User wrote: »
    At some point in time he's obviously had something happen that's made him become emotionally detached to everything around him.

    He did talk to Walter about the incident over which he left the police force, where he gave a second chance to a domestic abuser which resulted in the woman ending up dead.


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    #901
    John Dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭John Dodger


    conorhal wrote: »
    I assumed that it could be ingested.
    Oh well, mythbustser fail......

    It can be ingested but does not work like you suggested.

    If you watched BB you'd know that.


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