Male TD pulls female colleague into his lap – in the Dáil chamber

wexie

Neeson wrote: »

That's be speculation. You don't know who drank and if they did how much they drank.

Tom Barry TD (FG) has also admitted that he had been drinking before the incident – but insisted he wasn’t drinking excessively.

There is no reason for the bar to be open, or serve alcohol while they're working

Neeson

Neeson wrote: »

That's be speculation. You don't know who drank and if they did how much they drank.

The fact they have a bar in their workplace is bad enough tbh.

These People have big responsibilities and make huge decisions that potentially effect a nation of 4.5m people in their everyday lives yet they have the temptation of a 'tipple or two' down the hall way?

And dont get me started on their sweet shop. Id imagine not much chance of getting chocolate there today.

vitani

Neeson wrote: »

So now it's just about the taxpayer paying for it? This is what I was talking about. Round and round in circles ye're going. Always find something wrong with it.

So anyway. It seems now that it is acceptable in some situations. So it's OK on the workplace of the football field in front of the world. Where else?

Or maybe the fact that different people are picking up different things that were unacceptable about the incident means it was unacceptable in a number of different ways.

Neeson

Vito Corleone wrote: »

The workplace of the football field is completely different to that of the Dail. Do you think it would be acceptable for Enda to run around punching the air every time he made a good speech? Maybe Gilmore could lift his shirt and run around the Dail celebrating? You cannot compare the two situations.

Their behavior was clearly unacceptable and inappropriate.

Exactly.

That's what in talking about.

People here earlier were saying would you do this in you're workplace,etc. but I said as you did that they're different scenarios and settings.

Neeson

wexie wrote: »

Tom Barry TD (FG) has also admitted that he had been drinking before the incident – but insisted he wasn’t drinking excessively.

There is no reason for the bar to be open, or serve alcohol while they're working

I know. But we don't know if he drank enough for it to affect him. He was probably asked did he and he said he did.

Isn't the bar always open though? Where do you think the boys go when they're not sitting there? You barely see a full house, they do be in and out. Probably shouldn't be going there during a vote or debate but they probably wouldn't especially look the door during that time either.

Neeson

vitani wrote: »

Or maybe the fact that different people are picking up different things that were unacceptable about the incident means it was unacceptable in a number of different ways.

True. I ate my dinner with a spoon today. It was a bleeding disgrace Joe, so it was!.

Vito Corleone

Vito Corleone wrote: »

The workplace of the football field is completely different to that of the Dail. Do you think it would be acceptable for Enda to run around punching the air every time he made a good speech? Maybe Gilmore could lift his shirt and run around the Dail celebrating? You cannot compare the two situations.

Their behavior was clearly unacceptable and inappropriate.

Right on. I cant believe people are using the analogy of scoring a goal in football where the scorer and his teammates are flowing with loads of adrenaline and high emotions, to the general b*llocks acting that goes on the Dail.

Frank Lee Midere

When I was younger a middle aged friend of my mums used to tend to end up on my lap. I didn't care then. Now I realise it was a major event and I need psychological counseling.

Gotham

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Bebop I didn't care then.

Frank Lee Midere

No troll.

Firstly there aren't laws against consensual sitting on laps. There may be company rules. Whatever workplace rules generally apply don't always apply to the Dail - otherwise they couldn't work until 5 am.

And she didn't care. This hysteria is the modern equivalent of Mary Whitehousism. It's the Get Upset brigade. The permanently outraged.

Both are peers, neither is a boss of the other, so if neither cared it's not your business.

It's a woman's right to choose to sit on any lap she wants. If the owner of the lap agrees of course.

Wibbs

Neeson, do not post in this thread again. You've a list of warnings, infractions and bans accrued in a remarkably short time on this site. I'll have no problem adding to that list you continue.

Gotham

Sorry Frank,
I know youre probably on a phone or something so you cant use the quote option, but can you try addressing the person youre talking to. It's hard to follow.

mikom

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

It's a woman's right to choose to sit on any lap she wants. If the owner of the lap agrees of course.

Pro-choice.
So in keeping with the debate......

Frank Lee Midere

Gotham wrote: »

Sorry Frank,
I know youre probably on a phone or something so you cant use the quote option, but can you try addressing the person youre talking to. It's hard to follow.

Well you posted a picture of a troll. I responded with "no troll..." And I don't like quoting pictures.

But I was responding to you. Then I made a general point.

vitani

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

It's a woman's right to choose to sit on any lap she wants. If the owner of the lap agrees of course.

It didn't look like she had much choice, tbh. She tried to get up at least once and was prevented.

But leaving that aside, can we drop the suggestion of 'hysteria' and Mary Whitehouse? Quite a few people on this thread have called the behaviour unprofessional and unacceptable. It's hardly on the level of hand-wringing and calling for anyone to be fired.

Gotham

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Well you posted a picture of a troll. I responded with "no troll..."

Oh right. I posted a picture of Bebop because of a spelling mistake you made. I was just joking around. Nevermind.
You edited your post though, did you really need counseling? That's awful.

Laneyh

Deleted User wrote: »

They're on a break from the debate. If they are good mates and it's the kind of relationship they have then I don't see a problem.

If not, then that is a different issue.

It was still being broadcast even if they were on a break from the debate and they were still in their place of work.

Did you see the clip of the weather girl in the UK who rolled her eyes?
That went viral because people thought she was being catty towards the newsreader. People thought she would get fired over it

Even if both TDs were equally involved it was totally inapproprate.
If it was horseplay between two good mates it is bringing a levity to work that is not called for.
Maybe they were sleep deprived or in an advanced state of refreshment
but whatever the circumstances that carry on has no place in the Dail or any workplace for that matter.

What if this was a courtroom in recess and the two members of the court staff started 'horsing' around. Would that be ok assuming neither of the two minded ?

Or if two people on jury duty thought it'd be great gas to clown around during deliberations

What about all of the other people who were in the room and those watching the video feed ?

There were people on a vigil outside of the Dail because of what they believe in - with no access to a bar, toilets or anything else.
I don't share their beliefs but at least they are taking the change in legislation seriously.

Those gobsheens couldn't even do one bit of overtime and stay off the booze whilst voting on legislation.

He should have been ejected from the house and told he would have no further part in the debate - let him explain that to his employers (constituents) then.

wexie

Laneyh wrote: »

... in an advanced state of refreshment

<giggles> I'm so using that

Laneyh

wexie wrote: »

<giggles> I'm so using that

In the case of politicians they're usually 'tired and emotional'

wexie

Laneyh wrote: »

In the case of politicians they're usually 'tired and emotional'

Eugh...getting a bit emotional on this myself, just can't believe it's acceptable for them to drink during working hours.

Especially while debating something like this, just goes to show quite how serious they take their jobs and their responsibility towards the citizens.

I work odd hours myself regularly and if I ever messed up a customers system while under the influence I'd be out of a job before I could say : but it was only a few pints.

Even if a system just got messed up and I had been drinking, even if it wasn't my fault.

****ing up a whole country is different of course...

:mad::mad::mad:

Laneyh

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Seriously, who are you to tell a pair of friends what sort of relationship they should have?

They can be swingers for all I care
Indeed the entire contents of the Dail can skip off together and have an orgy if they wish.

However, not whilst working and claiming expenses for 'working' then I expect them to concentrate on the discussion and actually work.

If they're actually on a proper break head outside for some fresh air, get some food, play angry birds, pop some bubble wrap whatever you like that doesn't involve groping your colleague.

wexie

Laneyh wrote: »

....whatever you like that doesn't involve groping your colleague.

Wouldn't even mind doing that, but the bloody audacity to do it 1) in the Dail and 2) on camera!!!

Complete and blatant disregard of everything I'd expect (or used to anyways) from a politician.

If you're going to molest someone do it in the broom cupboard like normal decent people

Meangadh

People need to stop looking at this as a man vs woman issue. This is about respect. Respect for a colleague, respect for the job and respect for the people of this country.

The action Tom Barry took was at worst sexist, but at best (and I do actually believe this was what it actually was) simply completely idiotic. I don't want a complete idiot making decisions for me in government.

I don't care if they were on a break. They were inside the four walls of the Dáil. Our House of Parliament. That sort of behaviour, however innocent, is simply childish and immature. He should know better and should respect his role and the room he was in. I have no interest in entering politics but if I was a TD I would treat that room with reverence. It is an honour for him to be a member/representative of that house (for that is what T.D. means) and to be messing around in it whilst people were protesting right outside about a very emotive topic is quite frankly a disgrace.

As I said though, even I can get over a bit of stupid behaviour. It's the drinking that really gets me. I can't understand how most people here are making more of the sexist slant to this event than the drinking. The man had consumed alcohol on the job for Christ's sake. How on earth is that acceptable? This to me should be the issue more than anything. And the bloody bar stays open for two hours after close of business in the Dáil meaning it was open til 7am! Where the hell else in the world would this happen?! I'll go back to my original question: Why is there even a bar in Leinster House?

I hate when people just go "ah politicians, they're all the same" and dismiss those in office. I'd like to think there are some decent ones there. But it's getting harder and harder to know if that's true- and they have no one to blame but themselves for this.

Laneyh

wexie wrote: »

Eugh...getting a bit emotional on this myself, just can't believe it's acceptable for them to drink during working hours.

Especially while debating something like this, just goes to show quite how serious they take their jobs and their responsibility towards the citizens.

I work odd hours myself regularly and if I ever messed up a customers system while under the influence I'd be out of a job before I could say : but it was only a few pints.

Even if a system just got messed up and I had been drinking, even if it wasn't my fault.

****ing up a whole country is different of course...

:mad::mad::mad:

Oh I know it's astounding really. There is a slight case for them having a private members bar for normal after work times - much as I detest them I suppose they're as deserving as the next person to have a drink without being hassled.

However, there is absolutely no reason why the bar should be serving acohol when they are supposed to be working.

Presumably they call these late night debates to try and expedite a result
Having people wandering in and out to the bar / out for smokes and to the loo constantly is unlikely to yield results.

If they are designed to show the public how hard our politicians are working and how seriously they're taking these major decisions it has failed spectacularly.

This time and the time of the IBRC liquidation demonstrated exactly why people are not allowed drink in the workplace.

Some people where I work had to put in horrendous hours recently and were here until 4 /5. Some people put in an 80 hour week

They were expected to do this for the good of the company to share the workload amongst the team and help deliver the projects on time successfully.

There was free food available during this time but definitely no booze

The Dail will be breaking up for the Summer holidays soon -why not have a work do before the break and they can act the yahoo to their hearts content

It is pretty gauling that they take the p1ss in plain view and don't care an iota how dumb and unprofessional it makes both them and us look.

wexie

Wouldn't you just love to have seen the reactions if some German politician pulled Angela Merkel onto his lap, after a few drinks, while debating something important, in parliament? .....

I wonder if our politician ****heads realise quite how ridiculous they look.

Then again I reckon they probably don't give a rats ass. And, truth be told, why would they? They obviously have absolutely 0 scruples or integrity.

darkhorse

wexie wrote: »

This obviously is very inappropriate, regardless of what their relationship is they are public representatives and should be fully aware they are on camera.

Personally though what I find much more disturbing is that his excuse doesn't cause more outrage :

Tom Barry TD (FG) has also admitted that he had been drinking before the incident – but insisted he wasn’t drinking excessively.
“I went to the Dail bar but I wasn’t drinking excessively. There was nothing pre-meditated, it was stupid, it was disrespectful,” he said.

How in the name of everything that is good and holy is it deemed acceptable for politicians to be drinking while debating something of quite such importance. How is it even remotely acceptible they drink while working altogether?

It certainly wouldn't be considered appropriate for any other walk of life that I'm aware off. Other than barstaff perhaps.

Disgusting wastes of space these 'politicians' are.[/QUOTE]

Talking of which, it would be interesting also to see the bar till receipts for the night of the vote on the LPT bill (18/12/12, I think).
Surely to God, they shouldn't be allowed to vote on a bill that has the effect of changing any citizens financial future in any way, while they have drink taken, if indeed they had drink taken.

mikom

The alcohol limits for driving are 50 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood.

There are no alcohol limits for driving womens lives...... voting in abortion decisions etc.

Shower of shite arses, and they are the same one who will be looking down on Ming when he brings his cannabis legalisation bill before the house in a short while.

darkhorse

Neeson wrote: »

They were working at daft hours with little warning anyway. I feel for them slurring their words. The amount of them falling asleep was unreal. They do be human too.

I know what you mean. I slur my words if I have only 3/4 bottles of bud late at night, and I tend to chase my wife down the hall, (can't remember why)

Neeson

darkhorse wrote: »

I know what you mean. I slur my words if I have only 3/4 bottles of bud late at night, and I tend to chase my wife down the hall, (can't remember why)

Haha. But surely you don't be debating serious issues like abortion so you probably hardly have to dig into your brain for anything at such a late hour. Most people at that stage would be winding down.

Edit. I can't post here no more so that is that.

Speisekarte

kylith wrote: »

Whether or not she minded or was offended, and she didn't seem happy in the video, the incident speaks volumes about this man's attitude toward women. That someone with that sort of attitude is now part of a debate on women's rights is quite depressing.

Bit of a generalisation to suggest his behaviour towards one woman represents his attitude towards all women.