Male TD pulls female colleague into his lap – in the Dáil chamber

Chucky the tree

username123 wrote: »

What I mean is, a woman can kiss both men and women and no one feels uncomfortable (as you say your male friends do). So a woman doesnt feel the need to split the cheek kissing by gender.

I know, that's what I meant by being easier for a women. Very common for females to kiss each other on the cheek while obviously very different for Irish males.

Hitchens

username123 wrote: »

Where are you getting this from? It is equally bad for the woman to hit the man as the man to hit the woman. Both are stigmatised.

bad alright, but not equally bad

username123

Gotham wrote: »

This is just plain incorrect. I can only guess you've never seen these things happen.

Incorrect? So you think women hitting men is ok?

Gotham

username123 wrote: »

Incorrect? So you think women hitting men is ok?

I don't. Of course I don't. Our society does though.
Please don't put words in my mouth.

Clarehobo

Gotham wrote: »

Obviously sexism can be done by anyone. But not everything claimed as sexism is obviously not sexist.
Slapping is a great example for this gay-world-theory, lets analyse what might happen in a nightclub in a common week. At one point, a:

A) Woman slaps a man.
Woman slaps a woman.
C) Man slaps a woman.
D) Man slaps a man.

A - People stand around, maybe laugh.
C - Man will most likely be demonised and kicked out.
B / D - People might stand and watch.

Take each of these scenarios, now make the world gay and change the sexes around a few times (only one sex per universe). Every single combination favours scenario (A). There is a good chance that scenario A has some sexist undertones.

Lets be honest, none of those scenarios are ok unless the second person wants to be slapped.
People who think any of those scenarios are acceptable when the recipient does not consent are not worth the oxygen they are using.
This is about bodily integrity - it is not ok for people to touch anyone else without consent.

username123

Hitchens wrote: »

bad alright, but not equally bad

Of course its equally bad. A person hits another person - it doesnt matter what the gender is. Physical violence is never acceptable.

Im disturbed that people think female on male violence is ok. Its not. There are support groups for men who have been victims of domestic violence - it is a very real issue and not something that should ever be considered ok.

Gotham

Clarehobo wrote: »

Lets be honest, none of those scenarios are ok unless the second person wants to be slapped.
People who think any of those scenarios are acceptable when the recipient does not consent are not worth the oxygen they are using.
This is about bodily integrity - it is not ok for people to touch anyone else without consent.

The point is not that these are acceptable.

The point is that they have different levels of acceptability.

username123

Gotham wrote: »

I don't. Of course I don't. Our society does though.
Please don't put words in my mouth.

Who in our society does? This is the first Ive heard of this! Can you provide some back up for this?

It is never acceptable for someone to put their hands on someone else in a violent manner. I cannot believe anyone would think it is.

Gotham

username123 wrote: »

Of course its equally bad. A person hits another person - it doesnt matter what the gender is. Physical violence is never acceptable.

Im disturbed that people think female on male violence is ok. Its not. There are support groups for men who have been victims of domestic violence - it is a very real issue and not something that should ever be considered ok.

I agree, I really do. I'm just trying to highlight false sexism claims.

Gotham

username123 wrote: »

Who in our society does? This is the first Ive heard of this! Can you provide some back up for this?

It is never acceptable for someone to put their hands on someone else in a violent manner. I cannot believe anyone would think it is.

Theres been threads about this already, worth a read:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056961451

As a Barman for over ten years, I've seen men slap men, women slap women, women slap men and men slap women.

None have ever been tolerated and the instigator of physical violence, whether male or female, kicked out.

Violence, regardless of any gender should not be tolerated. If we don't tolerate it society won't tolerate it. We are society after all.

Neeson

Gary kissed Paul during their job. It was after their job had ended but still in their place of work in front of the public and the children, won't someone think of the children!

Didn't hear anyone complaining back then.

SpaceTime

I don't really care what the context of it was, you don't do that to a colleague *ever* whether you're male or female is irrelevant. If it had been a woman grabbing one of the men and sitting him on her lap, it'd have been just as inappropriate.

It's even worse that it was during what is a pretty serious debate.

The impression I'm left with is that a minority of TDs seem to think they're there for a laugh. It's a debating chamber, not Coppers on a Friday night!

Gotham

SpaceTime wrote: »

The impression I'm left with is that a minority of TDs seem to think they're there for a laugh. It's a debating chamber, not Coppers on a Friday night!

I watched the thing last night for an hour.
Nobody could coherently string a sentence together, leaving unfinished sentences like: "women who are pregnant are illegal". Jibberish.
I don't care what side you're on of the debate, you're expected to act professional and not stick your ipad on the microphone so nobody can hear you over the GSM static.
Shambles, the stream even went down.

Clarehobo

Gotham wrote: »

The point is not that these are acceptable.

The point is that they have different levels of acceptability.

And my point is that anyone who thinks that any one of those scenarios is acceptable is wrong.

You may perceive that there are varying levels of acceptability of this throughout our society: I am saying if there is this acceptance of violating people's bodily integrity , then it is wrong. It may exist in people's minds that it is ok for women to slap men or vice versa, but it is not ok - it is not acceptable.

I have seen it in action - guys put their hands up girls skirts as they are walking past them, grabbing their arses, grabbing their genitals and then laughing with their friends about it while the victim has to deal with the aftermath of being violated. I have also seen women slap men on the arse, albeit far more rarely.

These are all wrong scenarios. The victim feels anger, embarassment, shame while the perpetrators feel empowered.

Again, no one should touch anyone without consent!

Neeson

SpaceTime wrote: »

I don't really care what the context of it was, you don't do that to a colleague *ever* whether you're male or female is irrelevant.

True. Gary Neville was way out of order. Blanc was as well. They should have been given a stern warning at the time or even fined. It's a bloody disgrace.

Neeson

Gotham wrote: »

I watched the thing last night for an hour.
Nobody could coherently string a sentence together, leaving unfinished sentences like: "women who are pregnant are illegal". Jibberish.
I don't care what side you're on of the debate, you're expected to act professional and not stick your ipad on the microphone so nobody can hear you over the GSM static.
Shambles, the stream even went down.

They were working at daft hours with little warning anyway. I feel for them slurring their words. The amount of them falling asleep was unreal. They do be human too.

Gotham

Clarehobo wrote: »

And my point is that anyone who thinks that any one of those scenarios is acceptable is wrong.

Well we are agreeing with each other then.

SpaceTime

The Ceann Comharile ought to call him in about it and there should be some kind of a public telling off at least.

It's just unparliamentary behaviour and it's disrespectful to the people who expect TDs to do their job in the house with some degree of professionalism.

Reamer Fanny

This is an outrage

Mod

Apologies, I don't have time to fully keep up with the thread but can we please keep it somewhat on topic without dragging irrelevant anecdotes into it.

mikom

Abortion debate in the Dail.
Meanwhile wafting over the speakers.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_uDcCZDrxg

Stay classy FG.

jill_valentine

Neeson wrote: »

They were working at daft hours with little warning anyway. I feel for them slurring their words. The amount of them falling asleep was unreal. They do be human too.

I used to work in a toyshop over Christmas seasons. With the way my weekly shifts broke down, I could regularly be working seven days in a row before a day off, from 8am in the morning until 1 or 2am that night.

If I'd groped a colleague in the middle of that shift, I could still have been fired for it, and vice versa. Both for making somebody else's workplace crappy for them, and for poorly representing my employer. I'll tell you what else too, the distinction between being a bit drunk and "excessively" so wouldn't have carried much water either.

This would have been inappropriate in the midst of any debate, but in a debate which highlights a serious disparity between the lawful respect offered male and female Irish citizens, it's even worse.

There's no excuse for this kind of bollockology on such an incredibly serious stage, it's just disrespectful and inappropriate. If somebody did this in the middle of an office there would be murder over it, so why do we expect less in a far more important arena?

Ash.J.Williams

some pile of ****e being discussed in this thread

mikom

Neeson wrote: »

Gary kissed Paul during their job. It was after their job had ended but still in their place of work in front of the public and the children, won't someone think of the children!

Didn't hear anyone complaining back then.

Were the forwards being paid by the taxpayer to debate abortion with the backs?

SpaceTime

SpaceTime wrote: »

The Ceann Comharile ought to call him in about it and there should be some kind of a public telling off at least.

It's just unparliamentary behaviour and it's disrespectful to the people who expect TDs to do their job in the house with some degree of professionalism.

When my father was a young lad, his next door neighbour was always big into politics, so big in fact that himself and a group of farmers in the area went up to see Leinster house one day with great anticipation....It proved to be the biggest let down of his life.....not one sober politician in the chambers. All scuttered and behaving like fools in session.

That night he turned on the radio to hear of 'the intense debate' that was had in Dáil Éireann today' :rolleyes:

Neeson

mikom wrote: »

Were the forwards being paid by the taxpayer to debate abortion with the backs?

So now it's just about the taxpayer paying for it? This is what I was talking about. Round and round in circles ye're going. Always find something wrong with it.

So anyway. It seems now that it is acceptable in some situations. So it's OK on the workplace of the football field in front of the world. Where else?

Neeson

Neeson wrote: »

They were working at daft hours with little warning anyway. I feel for them slurring their words. The amount of them falling asleep was unreal. They do be human too.

The bar being open until 5am perhaps also had something to do with that?

Neeson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The bar being open until 5am perhaps also had something to do with that?

That's be speculation. You don't know who drank and if they did how much they drank.

Vito Corleone

Neeson wrote: »

It seems now that it is acceptable in some situations. So it's OK on the workplace of the football field in front of the world.

The workplace of the football field is completely different to that of the Dail. Do you think it would be acceptable for Enda to run around punching the air every time he made a good speech? Maybe Gilmore could lift his shirt and run around the Dail celebrating? You cannot compare the two situations.

Their behavior was clearly unacceptable and inappropriate.