Male TD pulls female colleague into his lap – in the Dáil chamber

The_Kew_Tour

Tom Barry is from my constituency back home.

Could not stop hearing about him before he got in Dail.

Its first time I have heard his name mentioned since he got elected.

Glad he is still alive.

dfx-

Jerrica wrote: »

If she has no issue with it then they're BOTH wrong. Accosting a colleague in the middle of a very very serious debate on an issue that directly affects women across the nation is in no way shape or form appropriate behaviour. This is mad-men-esque and was last seen around the time that women were sen as pretty little things to make the office look good and make the coffee.

if this behavioural is accepted in a political environment how is it possible to expect that women will be seen as equals when that type of chauvanistic bolloxology is taken as the norm?

It's wrong on so many levels.

That post seems to be loading a lot of "2+2=5" type statements onto the situation.

It really does come down to whether the people involved found it disagreeable or not as whoops said.

Being at work doesn't make it any more acceptable or unacceptable, being in public doesn't make any more or less acceptable and what they were debating before this break has nothing to do with it being less or more acceptable.

It being a political environment is irrelevant or loading a mad-men-esque comparison onto it makes no difference. Or any other number of complaints that have been mentioned in the thread.

Legs.Eleven

Jerrica wrote: »

When they are representatives of my government and it happens in a public forum during one of the moat polarised debates that the nation has seen in recent years and being televised then I have every right to voice my opinion. If they did this in the pub on their own time then you might have a point, but when its during the working hours that I help pay for then their behaviour is entirely open to public scrutiny.

+ a million squillion. I've watched that video a few times and it's so obviously clear how uncomfortable she is but even still, it's absolutely the wrong place and the wrong time for that behaviour. It's ridiculously uncomfortable to watch that video.

Legs.Eleven

dfx- wrote: »

That post seems to be loading a lot of "2+2=5" type statements onto the situation.

It really does come down to whether the people involved found it disagreeable or not as whoops said.

Being at work doesn't make it any more acceptable or unacceptable, being in public doesn't make any more or less acceptable and what they were debating before this break has nothing to do with it being less or more acceptable.

It being a political environment is irrelevant or loading a mad-men-esque comparison onto it makes no difference. Or any other number of complaints that have been mentioned in the thread.

How in the love of god is it irrelevant??

kylith

Whether or not she minded or was offended, and she didn't seem happy in the video, the incident speaks volumes about this man's attitude toward women. That someone with that sort of attitude is now part of a debate on women's rights is quite depressing.

Hitchens

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

+ a million squillion. I've watched that video a few times and it's so obviously clear how uncomfortable she is but even still, it's absolutely the wrong place and the wrong time for that behaviour. It's ridiculously uncomfortable to watch that video.

Obviously clear? Only for we were told who they were we wouldn't know from the video!

XxMCRxBabyxX

kylith wrote: »

Whether or not she minded or was offended, and she didn't seem happy in the video, the incident speaks volumes about this man's attitude toward women. That someone with that sort of attitude is now part of a debate on women's rights is quite depressing.

Attitude towards women? That seems a bit far. For all we know that's part of a private joke between the two or craic that they sometimes have that he just brought up at the wrong time. It doesn't necessarily mean that he does that with all women

mailforkev

Totally inappropriate behaviour but if Aine Collins hasn't complained about it then he should just get a stern talking to and told to gather a bit of cop on. If she does lodge a complaint then let him go through disciplinary procedures.

However, the other major problem in my eyes is that he was on the sauce at work. Work paid for by you and me. Whether the bar is open or not any TD found drinking during "work" should be relieved of their duties. I would be if I turned up to work half cut.

Wibbs

Seriously cringeworthy episode. No great shock mind you.

skeg16

Personally I think it's getting a bit out of hand.

Yes he was in the wrong and yes she looked uncomfortable, it was the wrong time and place etc.

If she feels violated then speak up otherwise I see it as two close friends having a sneer that went a bit beyond the "acceptable for TDs mark"

Lets not blow this into something mayor....I'm off to comment on something more important, AH here we come :pac:

yeppydeppy

Between this incident and the fella "accidentally" voting the wrong way - do you think the dáil bar had a bit of influence on their actions and attitudes?

Das Kitty

yeppydeppy wrote: »

Between this incident and the fella "accidentally" voting the wrong way - do you think the dáil bar had a bit of influence on their actions and attitudes?

I didn't want to comment on this aspect because I have no way of knowing who had a drink and who didn't.

Either way though, the Dáil bar is so cringey. The idea of elected representatives being under the influence whilst debating and voting on any issue is ridiculous, IMO.

kylith

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Attitude towards women? That seems a bit far. For all we know that's part of a private joke between the two or craic that they sometimes have that he just brought up at the wrong time. It doesn't necessarily mean that he does that with all women

Perhaps it was, though it doesn't appear to be, and that's what I thought until it was reported as 'unwanted' and that he had been disciplined.

The fact that he thinks that it's acceptable to pull a woman onto his lap and hold her there despite the fact that she is obviously trying to get up is what I'm talking about. He didn't appear to invite her to sit in his lap, she didn't appear to ask if she could and, whether they are friends or not, he grabbed her and sat her in his lap - she did not have a choice in the matter. This is what I mean about his attitude to women, he did not take into account that she might feel uncomfortable being put in that situation or that she might be offended, he just stuck her in his lap because he wanted to. I have plenty of male friends and not one of them has ever grabbed me and sat me on his lap, because they know that it is not something that you do to people.

As other's have said, it's a throwback to the '50s when it was seen as acceptable to comment on a woman's appearance, make sexist statements, and many men saw women more as a way to decorate the office than as colleagues and co-workers.

Clarehobo

I saw the video yesterday morning and thought it was bad. It was unacceptable behaviour.

Then I heard the start of Pat Kenny's show yesterday where he stated that she "stumbled" into his lap - thus mis-informing any public who didn't have the option to see the incident for themselves. And that made me even madder as it was dismissive, incorrect and because I thought "My parents wouldn't go seeking out the video to see for themselves so they will take this guy's word for it as he is our public interest broadcaster. How many other people out there are like them?"

And finally I read the Independent article on it with the comments about warming her up...

And people still defend this guy?????

Ah sure it was just a bit of horseplay, craic, etc...

It is so dismissive of the inappropriateness of the whole event. She did not solicit that behaviour. It was unwanted attention. What elected politician would want to be treated like that?? What person would want to be treated like that in their work place??? The mind boggles!

I was out with a friend who came out with the craic comment last night - she had not seen the video, read the articles, was just believing what she was told...
I had to set her straight and just asked her how she would feel if a male colleague did that to her in front of all her peers, let alone on national TV.

Anyway! Rant over!

I work in a male dominated sector, as do all my friends. The people I have worked with for that last 8 years are my colleagues and friends - people I trust. Not one of my colleagues would dream of crossing that line with lewd or inappropriate behaviour, even with drink in. They are all gentlemen. There is a mutual respect and trust in our dealings - it is sad to see that this is not present in our national parliament.

Laneyh

CaraMay wrote: »

We don't know if she has a problem with it. Maybe they do this all the time. No point being outraged unless she is.

I tend to disagree. Leave the messing around for a social setting
Casual sexism in the workplace shouldn't go unchecked.

I've worked with people who are in relationships with each other and even they wouldn't dream of doing such a thing at work whilst supposed to be working - its wholly inappropriate

jaffacakesyum

dfx- wrote: »

That post seems to be loading a lot of "2+2=5" type statements onto the situation.

It really does come down to whether the people involved found it disagreeable or not as whoops said.

Being at work doesn't make it any more acceptable or unacceptable, being in public doesn't make any more or less acceptable and what they were debating before this break has nothing to do with it being less or more acceptable.

It being a political environment is irrelevant or loading a mad-men-esque comparison onto it makes no difference. Or any other number of complaints that have been mentioned in the thread.

What the fúck?

So you think the only important factor in it is if the woman is ok with it?? So if the woman was ok with a particular TD coming over and putting her across her lap and giving her a bit of a spanking, that's ok? Because they're friends and they both consent to it and are ok with it?

What is wrong with the world when people think this is appropriate behaviour in the workplace...for our politicians in the Dáil no less....Jesus Christ...

Again, not even coming at this from a sexual harassment or sexist/chauvinistic case. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming she was ok with this. And even still it's completely inappropriate and unprofessional behavior.

darkhorse

Deleted User wrote: »

They're on a break from the debate. If they are good mates and it's the kind of relationship they have then I don't see a problem.

I would have no problem either, but for the fact that it was done inside our countries parliament, under the glare of the camera's, for the whole of Europe to view, so as far as I am concerned, it is just another item in a long line of idiotic actions that brings the reputation of our country in disrepute. This is the sort of people we are paying 100 grand + to. What next, bunga bunga parties. In conclusion, may I say, if it is the kind of relationship they have, let them keep it private.

Meangadh

I'm absolutely appalled at this to be honest. Not so much in a "sexual harassment" point of view but more in that messing around like that in our house of parliament shows complete disrespect to the role into which these two people have been elected. I understand they were on a break in proceedings and you could argue they were just having a bit of craic but it just wasn't the location for it. And they surely know also that there are cameras filming all the time too. I just think people that ridiculous are hardly the best we can do when it comes to leading us.

My main gripe with the whole thing though is the bar and the fact that some of the politicians, including Tom Barry, were drinking on the job. As if ANY of the rest of us would get away with that at work. Even ONE drink, particularly after a long day's proceedings, can affect your judgement. And I don't buy this whole "Ah sure they knew what way they were voting"- that's irrelevant, you're at work for God's sake. NO amount of alcohol is acceptable at work. Besides the fact that surely some of them had to drive home afterwards. It's no wonder internationally we are seen as a nation of drinkers when our so-called leaders behave like this. Why is there even a bar in Leinster House in the first place?

I love Ireland but Jesus it's a frustrating place to live in at times.

darkhorse

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Maybe she liked or didn't mind the attention and being "accosted".

It's not up to you to decide what is wrong or inappropriate for someone.

As Cara has said, if she objects to this behaviour then it is wrong.

It is if my tax is paying their wages.

Chucky the tree

kylith wrote: »

Perhaps it was, though it doesn't appear to be, and that's what I thought until it was reported as 'unwanted' and that he had been disciplined.

The fact that he thinks that it's acceptable to pull a woman onto his lap and hold her there despite the fact that she is obviously trying to get up is what I'm talking about. He didn't appear to invite her to sit in his lap, she didn't appear to ask if she could and, whether they are friends or not, he grabbed her and sat her in his lap - she did not have a choice in the matter. This is what I mean about his attitude to women, he did not take into account that she might feel uncomfortable being put in that situation or that she might be offended, he just stuck her in his lap because he wanted to. I have plenty of male friends and not one of them has ever grabbed me and sat me on his lap, because they know that it is not something that you do to people.

As other's have said, it's a throwback to the '50s when it was seen as acceptable to comment on a woman's appearance, make sexist statements, and many men saw women more as a way to decorate the office than as colleagues and co-workers.

It's not something they would do to you, there is a difference. For example if standing at the edge of a pool I'd happily push my friends into it every so often as a joke, neither would be upset/offended. I'd obviously never do it to a stranger or someone I didn't know very well though. There are a million things I would do to male/females friends that I would never do to normal work colleagues/accquantices/friends of friends etc.


Maybe he has grabbed her before and she had no problems with it? Maybe she has grabbed him and put him on her lap as well? As I said earlier I think it's inappropriate and but it's being blown hugely out of proportion. At the end of the day this is supposedly Anne Collins take of the matter

It was a piece of nothing

username123

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's not something they would do to you, there is a difference.

But its not something that should be done in a workplace, even if it was to his own wife. It is not acceptable workplace behaviour. I dont care how he behaves towards his female friends in social situations, but when he is at work, being paid his wages from my taxes I expect him to be respectful and appropriate.

Chucky the tree

username123 wrote: »

But its not something that should be done in a workplace, even if it was to his own wife. It is not acceptable workplace behaviour. I dont care how he behaves towards his female friends in social situations, but when he is at work, being paid his wages from my taxes I expect him to be respectful and appropriate.

I said it was inappropriate and he shouldn't have done it. I don't think the incident makes up some women hater or a person who thinks women are below him like people are making out though. There is a huge over-reaction to this.

username123

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I said it was inappropriate and he shouldn't have done it. I done think the incident makes up so women hater or a person who thinks women are below him like people are making out though. There is a huge over-reaction to this.

Ask yourself this. Would he have pulled a male work colleague onto his lap to warm him up? I dont think so.

coffee_cake

I don't think it's a women issue, I think it's a fcuking gobshíte issue carrying on like that in the dail, a serious workplace in the front of the world
Close the bloody bar

titchy

darkhorse wrote: »

I would have no problem either, but for the fact that it was done inside our countries parliament, under the glare of the camera's, for the whole of Europe to view, so as far as I am concerned, it is just another item in a long line of idiotic actions that brings the reputation of our country in disrepute. This is the sort of people we are paying 100 grand + to. What next, bunga bunga parties. In conclusion, may I say, if it is the kind of relationship they have, let them keep it private.

I completely agree and would go as far as saying that I believe our elected leaders treat us with little more than contempt.
If they had any respect for the irish person at all they would not represent our country with such little professionalism.
If I acted so unpressionaly in my place of work and lowered the tone of my companies name in such a derogatory fashion I would soon be shown the door, I'm fairly sure it's in my contract.
This a country they are representing, my country which I long to be proud of, but I'm finding it increasingly difficult as each day passes.

hollypink

Meangadh wrote: »

My main gripe with the whole thing though is the bar and the fact that some of the politicians, including Tom Barry, were drinking on the job.

I agree entirely. The incident itself showed a lot of disrespect for the Dail and for a serious bill but I'm shocked that any of them were consuming alcohol during Dail proceedings. What the hell is wrong with them?

darkhorse

ted1 wrote: »

She's looks very uncomfortable in the clip, not the carry on you'd expect in a work place, why is there a bar in their work place?

Why not when we are subsidising it.

Chucky the tree

username123 wrote: »

Ask yourself this. Would he have pulled a male work colleague onto his lap to warm him up? I dont think so.

Not sure the relevance of that.

Timmyctc

Im glad people can find a reason to get up in the morning and get angry over what could potentially be two mates titting about on their break.

For people saying its embarrassing, its a hell of a site less embarrassing than the childish bickering in the Dáil or by TD's on other forms of media. I for one would be happy if the only 'embarrassing' thing the TD's do is tit about on their break once in a while.

username123

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Not sure the relevance of that.

The relevance is that he thinks it is ok to treat women like this in the workplace. Its sexism.