Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

charolais0153 · 03-03-2021 3:56pm

tanko wrote: »

That's good to hear, if his daughters have decent milk then he'll have it all, very easy calved, good muscle and frame. He must be Doveas best seller along with EBY.
Has anyone got any Cavelands Jolly heifers calved?

Ai said that he is putting hard blues into jolly 1st calves , said they have unreal scope and pelvises.

tanko · 03-03-2021 4:30pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ai said that he is putting hard blues into jolly 1st calves , said they have unreal scope and pelvises.

Jollys sire Ionesco bred cows like that, serious cows to fire out calves.

patsy_mccabe · 03-03-2021 5:35pm

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

He was sold to the Goldies herd, looked through their Facebook and I can’t see where he’s bred anything of note? I wonder was he a failure there?

https://www.facebook.com/379661805434997/posts/1989913181076510/?d=n

Ya, strange one. There's nothing registered to him on the UK Limousin database.

https://www.taurusdata.co.uk/beef/animalmanager/animaldetails?id=10398842#pedigree

patsy_mccabe · 03-03-2021 5:43pm

tanko wrote: »

Jollys sire Ionesco bred cows like that, serious cows to fire out calves.

IONESCO is in the breeding of a few bulls.
The mother of Gamin ZGM in Bova is also by IONESCO.
Also grandsire of Erebos LM6172, new French bull in GeneIreland

ABitofsense · 03-03-2021 6:04pm

Many use the gene Ireland bulls? Got the 2021 catalog and tempted to try 1. i'd have to order 5 straws of a bull tho

tanko · 03-03-2021 6:30pm

ABitofsense wrote: »

Many use the gene Ireland bulls? Got the 2021 catalog and tempted to try 1. i'd have to order 5 straws of a bull tho

I've never bothered with it.
Why pay €5 for a shot in the dark when you can get well proven bulls for €8-10.
Let someone else try them out first:pac:.
If you buy straws off a bull in the terminal section you have to buy the same number of straws off a bull in the replacement section.
There's a minimum order of 5 straws per bull.

patsy_mccabe · 03-03-2021 6:37pm

ABitofsense wrote: »

Many use the gene Ireland bulls? Got the 2021 catalog and tempted to try 1. i'd have to order 5 straws of a bull tho

I bought 10 straws of IX LM5983. At €5 each, you can't complain. These bulls are tested some bit in France first, so not totally untested.

Here's IX's data for example. I'd rather get 10 straws at €50 than pay that for one straw of totally unproving bull with fancy photos.

http://www.evolution-int.com/en/bull/34/FR1937361674/alt

ABitofsense · 03-03-2021 6:45pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I bought 10 straws of IX LM5983.

Did you use any of him? I noticed him last year

patsy_mccabe · 03-03-2021 6:49pm

ABitofsense wrote: »

Did you use any of him? I noticed him last year

Only used one straw yet, as he didn't really suit my cows that came bulling since I got them. Good to have them in the pot though.

Amateur Farmer · 03-03-2021 10:39pm

ABitofsense wrote: »

Many use the gene Ireland bulls? Got the 2021 catalog and tempted to try 1. i'd have to order 5 straws of a bull tho

Is the 2021 catalogue available online? I had a look but couldn't find it.

tanko · 03-03-2021 11:49pm

Amateur Farmer wrote: »

Is the 2021 catalogue available online? I had a look but couldn't find it.

I got it in the post the other day.
It should be on ICBF.com under services - Gene Ireland but they haven't put it up yet.
If you email them they might send you or email you a copy of it.

furandfeather · 03-03-2021 11:49pm

Do ye find lm2014 much easier calved than eby?

tanko · 03-03-2021 11:55pm

furandfeather wrote: »

Do ye find lm2014 much easier calved than eby?

I'd say he's a bit easier calved. Haven't had any trouble with either but haven't used them on heifers.
Have you had bother with EBY?

furandfeather · 04-03-2021 12:00am

tanko wrote: »

I'd say he's a bit easier calved. Haven't had any trouble with either but haven't used them on heifers.
Have you had bother with EBY?

Never used either. Just looking for something for a well made cullard charolais x simmental heifer

High bike · 04-03-2021 12:01am

How would those 2 compare to LM 4217 Knell??

tanko · 04-03-2021 12:07am

furandfeather wrote: »

Never used either. Just looking for something for a well made cullard charolais x simmental heifer

A Saler :pac:

If a Lim i'd go with Ivor.
Had a Frosty King heifer from a cow here yesterday, he seems to be very easy calved and breeds nice long growthy cattle, have you tried him?

squinn2912 · 04-03-2021 12:09am

High bike wrote: »

How would those 2 compare to LM 4217 Knell??

For me they’re all much the same and fine for heifers. We used eby 3 years ago, Ivor 2 and knell last year. Impressed by the autumn calves off heifers from knell. Docility score is low but I’ve not seen that. Great, thick cattle. I’ve a soft spot for Ivor but knell might be the sturdiest

furandfeather · 04-03-2021 12:16am

tanko wrote: »

A Saler :pac:

If a Lim i'd go with Ivor.
Had a Frosty King heifer from a cow here yesterday, he seems to be very easy calved and breeds nice long growthy cattle, have you tried him?

Shes 50/50 ch/sim so I wanted to go throw in a 3rd breed just for the fun.
Never used frosty king, heard hes handy calved alright

High bike · 04-03-2021 12:17am

Never used ivor or Eby but have a smashed of a knell heifer from last year,was a bit flighty early on but seems to have settled a good bit over the winter.Have a couple of heifers due to him next month too,didn't find him hard calved.

Welding Rod · 04-03-2021 8:26am

Both EBY and 2014 have been my go to bulls for a good few years now. Have used both on heifers. Never pulled one yet, until last night. Had 2014 heifer in calf to EBY. I had to give a bit of help. Not much but still a bit. Now she had too much flesh on her for my liking and so that didn’t help I’d say. Wouldn’t mind but the calf was quite small.
In any case, I wouldn’t hesitate for one second to use either one on heifers. Maybe I’d lean towards 2014.

antrimite · 04-03-2021 12:12pm

Welding Rod wrote: »

Both EBY and 2014 have been my go to bulls for a good few years now. Have used both on heifers. Never pulled one yet, until last night. Had 2014 heifer in calf to EBY. I had to give a bit of help. Not much but still a bit. Now she had too much flesh on her for my liking and so that didn’t help I’d say. Wouldn’t mind but the calf was quite small.
In any case, I wouldn’t hesitate for one second to use either one on heifers. Maybe I’d lean towards 2014.

Very tempted to use one or both of them on a few maidens this spring.

Have had to cut away back on silage for 6 springing heifers due to start calving end of the month, all too well fleshed. Only on silage and a sprinkle of minerals. Cows all well fleshed too and will be getting the same cut in diet.. might have to get the calving jack oiled up

RobinBanks · 04-03-2021 10:50pm

Only one way this fella was coming out. Fiston from a Blue. God knows what I was thinking when I gave her a char.

Limestone Cowboy · 04-03-2021 11:05pm

RobinBanks wrote: »

Only one way this fella was coming out. Fiston from a Blue. God knows what I was thinking when I gave her a char.

He's a tank, friend had a calf off the same cross a few years ago just like him and she calved him naturally. He was some calf, tried it again with her the following year and the calf came very plain.

Seanhorse91 · 04-03-2021 11:10pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, strange one. There's nothing registered to him on the UK Limousin database.

https://www.taurusdata.co.uk/beef/animalmanager/animaldetails?id=10398842#pedigree

Had a problem with his rod, wasn’t long enough to do the job. Was sent home apparently.
Make you wonder how Dovea could sell his semen with the chance of it being a genetic defect?

Grueller · 04-03-2021 11:14pm

RobinBanks wrote: »

Only one way this fella was coming out. Fiston from a Blue. God knows what I was thinking when I gave her a char.

We have often put blue on blue here. Some blue cross heifers are great calvers.
Don't worry about the section, if she heals up OK that lad will well pay for it as a weanling.

tanko · 04-03-2021 11:18pm

RobinBanks wrote: »

Only one way this fella was coming out. Fiston from a Blue. God knows what I was thinking when I gave her a char.

What would you put on her if you had the choice again, something like LM2014 maybe?

RobinBanks · 05-03-2021 12:16am

tanko wrote: »

What would you put on her if you had the choice again, something like LM2014 maybe?

She has had 3 calves before this one. All were by 2014. One of her calves made 1500 last Apr. She was a breeding heifer. I know what she will be getting this year and it's not going to be fiston! Still can't understand how I thought giving her fiston was a good idea.

RobinBanks · 05-03-2021 12:20am

Grueller wrote: »

We have often put blue on blue here. Some blue cross heifers are great calvers.
Don't worry about the section, if she heals up OK that lad will well pay for it as a weanling.

Hopefully I haven't handed her the death penalty. I've never had much luck with cows after they had section. Getting them back in calf was an issue

squinn2912 · 05-03-2021 12:36am

RobinBanks wrote: »

Hopefully I haven't handed her the death penalty. I've never had much luck with cows after they had section. Getting them back in calf was an issue

We’ve had plenty over the years that worked grand after the section. Make sure they heal up right and give them meal. I think they hold better to bull than ai

tanko · 05-03-2021 12:41am

RobinBanks wrote: »

She has had 3 calves before this one. All were by 2014. One of her calves made 1500 last Apr. She was a breeding heifer. I know what she will be getting this year and it's not going to be fiston! Still can't understand how I thought giving her fiston was a good idea.

Someone you don't know on an Internet discussion forum probably told you that it would be a great idea

.
Fiston suits big plain Lims and Sims i think, usually easy calved but not recommended for well muscled cows or blue cross cows maybe.
Once the cow and calf are ok that's the important thing. Saw a section locally this week, CH bull on a CHX cow, huge bull calf which will be ok but he put a leg through the womb before the section unfortunately.

squinn2912 · 05-03-2021 12:54am

tanko wrote: »

Someone you don't know on an Internet discussion forum probably told you that it would be a great idea .
Fiston suits big plain Lims and Sims i think, usually easy calved but not recommended for well muscled cows or blue cross cows maybe.
Once the cow and calf are ok that's the important thing. Saw a section locally this week, CH bull on a CHX cow, huge bull calf which will be ok but he put a leg through the womb before the section unfortunately.

Would Fenian be a better match for a well made cow like that? Bit plainer

SuperTeeJay · 05-03-2021 1:08am

A fiston heifer here.She's 14months about 450 kgs.
She is muscely.Wasnt gonna bull her because of the muscle but shes from a good cow line. Dam is HCA and grand dam Hkg so thought she might be worth trying.
A bit afraid to try a lim if it came muscled.Would a Saler suit her?

tanko · 05-03-2021 1:11am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Would Fenian be a better match for a well made cow like that? Bit plainer

He's a different type of bull but a bit harder calved i think.
Putting a CH bull on blue cows isn't a great idea imo, the bone of the CH and muscle from the blue can lead to calving difficulties from what i've seen.
Easy calving Lim is the best job on blue cows.

tanko · 05-03-2021 1:20am

SuperTeeJay wrote: »

A fiston heifer here.She's 14months about 450 kgs.
She is muscely.Wasnt gonna bull her because of the muscle but shes from a good cow line. Dam is HCA and grand dam Hkg so thought she might be worth trying.
A bit afraid to try a lim if it came muscled.Would a Saler suit her?

An easy calving Saler would be ideal, should bring a good colour also.

patsy_mccabe · 05-03-2021 9:55am

I honestly don't think muscle causes calving difficulty ever. There's no muscle in the pelvic opening. Its the narrow opening in the cow's pelvis combined with big boney frame in the calf, that cause problems. Its bone on bone thats trouble.

RobinBanks · 05-03-2021 1:01pm

tanko wrote: »

He's a different type of bull but a bit harder calved i think.
Putting a CH bull on blue cows isn't a great idea imo, the bone of the CH and muscle from the blue can lead to calving difficulties from what i've seen.
Easy calving Lim is the best job on blue cows.

And i have one more on the way

Bivouac on a blue cow.

Hard Knocks · 05-03-2021 2:02pm

RobinBanks wrote: »

And i have one more on the way Bivouac on a blue cow.

He’s short gestation which is a good help

Royals · 05-03-2021 9:07pm

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

Had a problem with his rod, wasn’t long enough to do the job. Was sent home apparently.
Make you wonder how Dovea could sell his semen with the chance of it being a genetic defect?

Both his sire and dam are sired by wilodge tonka sons according to his icbf data

patsy_mccabe · 05-03-2021 9:27pm

Royals wrote: »

Both his sire and dam are sired by wilodge tonka sons according to his icbf data

Crazy. Sympa in there aswell.

Same with Claragh Neymar, Tonka there twice and Sympa too.

https://webapp.icbf.com/v2/app/bull-search/view/1779439557

Royals · 05-03-2021 9:40pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Crazy. Sympa in there aswell.

Same with Claragh Neymar, Tonka there twice and Sympa too.

https://webapp.icbf.com/v2/app/bull-search/view/1779439557

Surely could cost them with pedigree breeding is that not a serious issue having that much of inbreeding in an animal?

https://webapp.icbf.com/v2/app/bull-search/view/1567955737#view-pedigree

patsy_mccabe · 05-03-2021 9:53pm

Royals wrote: »

Surely could cost them with pedigree breeding is that not a serious issue having that much of inbreeding in an animal?

https://webapp.icbf.com/v2/app/bull-search/view/1567955737#view-pedigree

Someone on here said it before that if the % combined is not more than 50%, then it's not a problem, but I don't like to see it.

furandfeather · 05-03-2021 10:14pm

SuperTeeJay wrote: »

A fiston heifer here.She's 14months about 450 kgs.
She is muscely.Wasnt gonna bull her because of the muscle but shes from a good cow line. Dam is HCA and grand dam Hkg so thought she might be worth trying.
A bit afraid to try a lim if it came muscled.Would a Saler suit her?

I wouldn't be worried about bulling that lady at all. She's not anyways extreme and by the time she's calving down she ll look a different animal

tanko · 05-03-2021 11:02pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Someone on here said it before that if the % combined is not more than 50%, then it's not a problem, but I don't like to see it.

Ive a heifer here and her two grandsires are the same bull, she looks ok so far :pac:
Didn't realise what i was doing when i Ai'ed her mother.

SuperTeeJay · 05-03-2021 11:08pm

furandfeather wrote: »

I wouldn't be worried about bulling that lady at all. She's not anyways extreme and by the time she's calving down she ll look a different animal

Thanks,no not extreme.She hasn't got meal since Christmas so hasn't been pushed.
Maybe I'll try eby lim as never tried him but I like the salers too.Cant fault them really on heifers.

Gudstock · 06-03-2021 12:13am

SuperTeeJay wrote: »

Thanks,no not extreme.She hasn't got meal since Christmas so hasn't been pushed.
Maybe I'll try eby lim as never tried him but I like the salers too.Cant fault them really on heifers.

Saler is a safer choice and good animals too. If off of fiston and a lim dam, there is a % chance she could have 2 myostatin genes, a Q and F94L. Safer to put her on a non myostatin carrier for the first calf, eg saler.

FeelTheBern · 07-03-2021 9:38pm

Anyone any feedback on Dromanig King (LM4302) from Dovea? His figures for daughter milk also good but sample size small so wondering if anyone any experience keeping heifers? Thanks

tanko · 07-03-2021 10:23pm

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Anyone any feedback on Dromanig King (LM4302) from Dovea? His figures for daughter milk also good but sample size small so wondering if anyone any experience keeping heifers? Thanks

Have a heifer off him from last spring off a QCD cow who will be calving to him again next week hopefully. Seems to be great frame and shape in the back end with them. If his daughters have good milk then he'll have it all, time will tell.

There's hardly too many heifers off him calved yet.

lab man · 07-03-2021 10:25pm

After giving a good speckled park cow a belgian blue bb5319 anyone hear of him the ai guy not the usual 1 I get because of covid hes over 70 munster ai took the cans off him

FeelTheBern · 07-03-2021 11:29pm

tanko wrote: »

Have a heifer off him from last spring off a QCD cow who will be calving to him again next week hopefully. Seems to be great frame and shape in the back end with them. If his daughters have good milk then he'll have it all, time will tell.

There's hardly too many heifers off him calved yet.

Thanks. Presume from the sound of the frame, and the calving figures on ICBF, that he’s more suited for use on cows than heifers?

tanko · 07-03-2021 11:38pm

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Thanks. Presume from the sound of the frame, and the calving figures on ICBF, that he’s more suited for use on cows than heifers?

Yeah, i don't think he's suitable for heifers, only had two here last year off mature cows, they come bigger framed than most bulls.
I don't think he's mad hard calved at all but try him on smaller/medium sized cows with good calving ability first i think.

Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

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