Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

bucketybuck · 07-10-2020 1:46pm

We all know the biggest problem with fines.

The rich won't care about them. The usual scumbags won't care about them. The young and penniless won't care about them.

The only people who will actually have to pay them will be those who are already most likely to adhere to restrictions in the first place, the working and middle class.

Just another in a long list of pointless gimmicks that won't address the real issue.

Micky 32 · 07-10-2020 1:56pm

I just thought. My partner of nearly 10 years lives just over the county border other side of the bridge. You could literally throw a stone from my county and would land on her roof.....this should be interesting.

uli84 · 07-10-2020 2:12pm

So the cinemas are closed again? Great, had an evening out planned for today. To answer the question - yes i have mental/personal problems but they are all directly/indirectly linked to the covid situation here

Can someone tell me why this is nationwide if there are major differences between the counties?

07-10-2020 2:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The reality is that a Level 5 lockdown this time would be a completely different animal to Level 5 at the beginning. They are not going to close Woodies, hairdressers, schools, and all small business. They will not introduce the 2km rule again, something unique in the whole of the EU!

You need to read the lockdown rules, at level 4 even hairdressers have to close never mind level 5 at which woodies would have to close and there is a 5km rule as part of level 5 also.

So if Leo and MM decide we are going to level 5 then these things will happen and I think if they do this circuit breaker level 5 they will close schools also.

As for your "unique" 5km rule, many EU countries had far stricter restrictions on travel so I dont know why you think our 5km rule was out of the ordinary.

Irish Aris · 07-10-2020 2:47pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Seems the Government are considering fines now..

Everyone's "hero" Leo has some ideas on that:

Absolute joke. They know Level 5 isn't a runner because of the economic impact and public outcry in the last few days, so let's just fine people instead! Never mind that the measures as they are today are still (as they have been pretty much all long) totally disproportionate to the risks involved.

I honestly struggle to see how fining people will increase compliance.
The people that comply already will continue to do so and the people that don't will not.

And how are they going to fine people, other than the obvious low hanging fruit of mask wearing? If a person has a gathering at their home with more than 6 people from 1 household (or whatever the guideline is for level 3), how would a guard know that?
As for travelling in another county it will be just a matter of luck if you get caught or not. To use the analogy of driving laws: not everyone that breaks them gets caught or fined.

Penfailed · 07-10-2020 2:51pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

We all know the biggest problem with fines.

The rich won't care about them. The usual scumbags won't care about them. The young and penniless won't care about them.

The only people who will actually have to pay them will be those who are already most likely to adhere to restrictions in the first place, the working and middle class.

Just another in a long list of pointless gimmicks that won't address the real issue.

This makes no sense. If you are adhering to the restrictions, you'll not be fined.

Allinall · 07-10-2020 2:53pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

How can they fine people for not following advice?

Advice, by its nature is discretionary.

If fines are brought in, the advice will cease to be advice, and become law.

Penfailed · 07-10-2020 2:54pm

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

As for your "unique" 5km rule, many EU countries had far stricter restrictions on travel so I dont know why you think our 5km rule was out of the ordinary.

Those lucky bástards in Wales had 5 miles to play with...that's three whole kilometres more than us!

Shelga · 07-10-2020 3:02pm

Even if we do a "circuit breaker"- numbers will go down for 2 weeks, then what?

There are no easy answers to any of this. More people need to recognise that. I see why NPHET recommended a level 5 lockdown, as their sole objective is to protect public health, and I also see why the government refused it.

I agree Leo made for a better Taoiseach than MM, but his comments the other night were needlessly divisive. NPHET's sole purpose is to advise on what is best for public health- what's so hard to understand about that?

uli84 · 07-10-2020 3:06pm

Shelga wrote: »

Even if we do a "circuit breaker"- numbers will go down for 2 weeks, then what?

There are no easy answers to any of this. More people need to recognise that. I see why NPHET recommended a level 5 lockdown, as their sole objective is to protect public health, and I also see why the government refused it.

I agree Leo made for a better Taoiseach than MM, but his comments the other night were needlessly divisive. NPHET's sole purpose is to advise on what is best for public health- what's so hard to understand about that?

Maybe they have different definitions of “public health”. is Covid Seriously the only indicator of public health these days? Can people not see beyond it? It’s madness. I mean ****, i have serious health problems, same as those around me and this whole thing just makes me laugh/cry or getting frustrated at best of times.

topper75 · 07-10-2020 3:11pm

uli84 wrote: »

Maybe they have different definitions of “public health”. is Covid Seriously the only indicator of public health these days? Can people not see beyond it? It’s madness.

Chairperson of Shannondoc - Dr. Pat Morrisey - was sacked from the role for merely asking this very question.

There is definitely a hysterical aspect to it. It is Ahabesque madness.

FintanMcluskey · 07-10-2020 3:11pm

Allinall wrote: »

If fines are brought in, the advice will cease to be advice, and become law.

The one good thing about that is I can finally get those old biddies that insist on standing either side of the entrance to shops talking nonsense to each other arrested.

Any grannies I see not keeping 2m apart will be immediately reported to guards.

Were doing this to protect them.

KindOfIrish · 07-10-2020 3:39pm

Shelga wrote: »

Even if we do a "circuit breaker"- numbers will go down for 2 weeks, then what?

There are no easy answers to any of this. More people need to recognise that. I see why NPHET recommended a level 5 lockdown, as their sole objective is to protect public health, and I also see why the government refused it.

I agree Leo made for a better Taoiseach than MM, but his comments the other night were needlessly divisive. NPHET's sole purpose is to advise on what is best for public health- what's so hard to understand about that?

Really?
BBC: Billionaires see fortunes rise by 27% during the pandemic
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54446285

That's all what you need to know about "pandemic", "public health" and other nonsense.

FintanMcluskey · 07-10-2020 3:49pm

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Really?
BBC: Billionaires see fortunes rise by 27% during the pandemic
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54446285

That's all what you need to know about "pandemic", "public health" and other nonsense.

Blood boiling to see the nonsense dressed up as "public health issue".

Never waste a good crisis to make money

acequion · 07-10-2020 4:26pm

Penfailed wrote: »

One of the open up cheerleaders in here was recently in Paris. The police are enforcing mask wearing with on the spot fines. The rules have since tightened even more there and they have closed pubs and cafes - they're not even allowing outdoor service. That's just one example.

As I suspected you're not able to provide any satisfactory evidence to your throw away remark that some countries have harsher rules. Other than that nonsense above with the contemptuous bit about "open up cheerleaders," proving that you're just another restrictions for the sake of them, lockdown merchant.

See the article below: Paris has gotten stricter on bars because as they rightly point out it's harder to get people to distance when socialising in a pub. However, being the civilised nation that they are, they have allowed restaurants to continue, albeit with strict regulations. In our nanny state citizens are even denied the pleasure of having a bite to eat out. In fact we're denied all pleasures which is utterly miserable and unnecessarily draconian. Humans need an outlet, they need some pleasure in life. Fact!

So come back and tell me just where in the western world restrictions are harsher than ours?

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/paris-maximum-virus-alert-closing-bars-not-restaurants

FintanMcluskey · 07-10-2020 4:33pm

acequion wrote: »

As I suspected you're not able to provide any satisfactory evidence to your throw away remark that some countries have harsher rules. Other than that nonsense above with the contemptuous bit about "open up cheerleaders," proving that you're just another restrictions for the sake of them, lockdown merchant.

See the article below: Paris has gotten stricter on bars because as they rightly point out it's harder to get people to distance when socialising in a pub. However, being the civilised nation that they are, they have allowed restaurants to continue, albeit with strict regulations. In our nanny state citizens are even denied the pleasure of having a bite to eat out. In fact we're denied all pleasures which is utterly miserable and unnecessarily draconian. Humans need an outlet, they need some pleasure in life. Fact!

So come back and tell me just where in the western world restrictions are harsher than ours?

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/paris-maximum-virus-alert-closing-bars-not-restaurants

Ireland is an outlier, and has been since June 3rd I believe when Italy opened its bars and restaurants.

I have no idea what the Summer restrictions were based upon.

CruelSummer · 07-10-2020 4:37pm

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-pays-tribute-to-selfless-chief-medical-officer-tony-holohan-and-praises-his-patriotism-after-varadkar-attack-39597547.html

Back to being a completely spineless Government and bowing to Tony who should not be at the helm at the moment. I don't have confidence in someone who walks back into their job and causes chaos and uproar without any consultation with any other politicians or public / private bodies. And now Míchael cannot wait to sing his praises instead of standing his ground. (Or should I say Leo's ground)

facehugger99 · 07-10-2020 4:44pm

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-pays-tribute-to-selfless-chief-medical-officer-tony-holohan-and-praises-his-patriotism-after-varadkar-attack-39597547.html

Back to being a completely spineless Government and bowing to Tony who should not be at the helm at the moment. I don't have confidence in someone who walks back into their job and causes chaos and uproar without any consultation with any other politicians or public / private bodies. And now Míchael cannot wait to sing his praises instead of standing his ground. (Or should I saw Leo's ground)

Nauseating.

Penfailed · 07-10-2020 5:15pm

acequion wrote: »

As I suspected you're not able to provide any satisfactory evidence to your throw away remark that some countries have harsher rules. Other than that nonsense above with the contemptuous bit about "open up cheerleaders," proving that you're just another restrictions for the sake of them, lockdown merchant.

https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53640249

There you go.

Complain about being contemptuous by being contemptuous and inaccurate. I've repeatedly said that I'm not a lockdown merchant. I don't want any restrictions but I understand the need for them.

Penfailed · 07-10-2020 5:17pm

Scotland closing all pubs and restaurants along the central region for the next sixteen days. The rest open outdoors only. Tell me again that we're an outlier in this...

TRANQUILLO · 07-10-2020 5:22pm

https://youtu.be/K_pFoaUiZoE

Ivors latest fable.

haskellgeek · 07-10-2020 5:22pm

Scotlands rules are only for 16 days and come in on Friday not a day later any licenced premises so I'd assume restraunts are in this, its 16 days as Scotland can't afford longer

FintanMcluskey · 07-10-2020 5:23pm

Penfailed wrote: »

Scotland closing all pubs and restaurants along the central region for the next sixteen days. The rest open outdoors only. Tell me again that we're an outlier in this...

Where did you see that confirmed?

The restaurants are shut all day I assume?

What does central region mean?

FintanMcluskey · 07-10-2020 5:26pm

Penfailed wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53640249

There you go.

Complain about being contemptuous by being contemptuous and inaccurate. I've repeatedly said that I'm not a lockdown merchant. I don't want any restrictions but I understand the need for them.

Penfailed I dont think you realise the content of the link you posted?

Essentially most of Europe has "restricted" to the level Ireland was at all Summer.

"Bars and restaurants must shut by 10" Seems to be rather common in densely populated cities.

acequion · 07-10-2020 5:42pm

Penfailed wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53640249

There you go.

Complain about being contemptuous by being contemptuous and inaccurate. I've repeatedly said that I'm not a lockdown merchant. I don't want any restrictions but I understand the need for them.

There you go what?? I asked you to provide evidence of your claim that there are other countries with, to quote what you said, "harsher restrictions." I didn't ask for a breakdown of restrictions in European countries which is what you linked. But even with a quick read through I didn't find one with harsher restrictions. Unless you're referring to stronger enforcement and if that's what you mean please clarify!

Penfailed wrote: »

Scotland closing all pubs and restaurants along the central region for the next sixteen days. The rest open outdoors only. Tell me again that we're an outlier in this...

You cite Scotland, a tiny country very similar to our own with unsurprisingly similar restrictions, not harsher by the way, around the same. And does that somehow rebut the argument that we are an outlier and unlike Scotland have been an outlier all along??

Your prerogative to agree with Ireland's draconian restrictions. A bit petty not to admit to the glaringly obvious fact that our restrictions are among the most severe, if not the most severe in Europe.

FintanMcluskey · 07-10-2020 5:46pm

acequion wrote: »

You cite Scotland, a tiny country very similar to our own with unsurprisingly similar restrictions, not harsher by the way, around the same. And does that somehow rebut the argument that we are an outlier and unlike Scotland have been an outlier all along??

Your prerogative to agree with Ireland's draconian restrictions. A bit petty not to admit to the glaringly obvious fact that our restrictions are among the most severe, if not the most severe in Europe.

Scotlands restrictions are localised to the cities and will have resturants open during the day, and its only for 16 days.

PowerToWait · 07-10-2020 5:54pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ireland is an outlier, and has been since June 3rd I believe when Italy opened its bars and restaurants.

Ireland is also an outlier in its paucity of healthcare resources and facilities. The numbers are crunched, here and abroad. We don't have the hospital capacity to deal with the rapidly rising numbers, this is why we have restrictions, this is whether you, me or anyone else likes it or not.

Electric Sheep · 07-10-2020 6:00pm

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

You need to read the lockdown rules, at level 4 even hairdressers have to close never mind level 5 at which woodies would have to close and there is a 5km rule as part of level 5 also.

So if Leo and MM decide we are going to level 5 then these things will happen and I think if they do this circuit breaker level 5 they will close schools also.

As for your "unique" 5km rule, many EU countries had far stricter restrictions on travel so I dont know why you think our 5km rule was out of the ordinary.

I think the sale of alcohol in off licenses and supermarkets should be banned in level 3 and higher. Let's see how you like that.

acequion · 07-10-2020 6:02pm

So therefore it looks as if our restrictions are indeed the harshest in Europe. And we're expected to just suck that up!! We're hard working, well educated but heavily taxed and with a heavily indebted state and like other democracies we vote for Governments who we task with fixing the wrongs of our infrastructure. But repeated Governments are too useless, inefficient and bureaucratic to fix for example our lamentable health service, one of the worst, if not the worst in Europe. So now we the citizens have to pay a heavy price with these horrendous restrictions for fear we might topple the increasingly fragile deck of cards that is our health service.

I'm certainly not ok with that.:mad::mad:

fin12 · 07-10-2020 6:04pm

If they bring in this reduced opening hours for off licenses and reducing hours of alcohol sale what’s the likelihood they will stay in place when all this is over?

FintanMcluskey · 07-10-2020 6:19pm

PowerToWait wrote: »

Ireland is also an outlier in its paucity of healthcare resources and facilities. The numbers are crunched, here and abroad. We don't have the hospital capacity to deal with the rapidly rising numbers, this is why we have restrictions, this is whether you, me or anyone else likes it or not.

Ireland is an outlier in that it has Europes youngest population, a natural defense against Covid.

That has not been accounted for in any way shape or form.

dundalkfc10 · 07-10-2020 6:24pm

So we may have to get drink at a certain time instead of when we want. I don't see how in the name of God that will stop anyone having parties.

Forkhill/Jonesbourgh and other cross border areas must be willing the Govt to bring this in

FintanMcluskey · 07-10-2020 6:24pm

fin12 wrote: »

If they bring in this reduced opening hours for off licenses and reducing hours of alcohol sale what’s the likelihood they will stay in place when all this is over?

There is a risk that every restriction will stay in place.

There is no "out" of what we have been reasoned into.

The hospitals are overcrowded every Winter and Covid has now added a small amount to that. The hospitals will be crowded this Winter, as they will next Winter, as they were last Winter.

There is no quantifiable data in Ireland for lifting restrictions it seems?

What are we working towards, whats the goal?

PTH2009 · 07-10-2020 6:32pm

living with covid me whole

there just waiting to bring the country to Level 4/5 and now with Leo back been pals with NPHET

Other Euro countries which much bigger numbers are getting on with it and not locking down at first thought

Tenzor07 · 07-10-2020 6:39pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

There is a risk that every restriction will stay in place.There is no "out" of what we have been reasoned into.
The hospitals are overcrowded every Winter and Covid has now added a small amount to that. The hospitals will be crowded this Winter, as they will next Winter, as they were last Winter.
There is no quantifiable data in Ireland for lifting restrictions it seems?
What are we working towards, whats the goal?

My Theory? The CMO/HSE/FFFG are doubling down on the Lockdowns, deaths are low but the PCR positives are up, lockdown coming into the winter which turns out again to be pretty normal in terms of deaths etc. then they can say "The Lockdown Worked" even though in real terms it made no difference at all!

uli84 · 07-10-2020 6:40pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

living with covid me whole

there just waiting to bring the country to Level 4/5 and now with Leo back been pals with NPHET

Other Euro countries which much bigger numbers are getting on with it and not locking down at first thought

Yeah n it will be ever worse than in April as they’ll add extra fines as a bonus

facehugger99 · 07-10-2020 6:42pm

For anyone playing Covid bingo, Dr Tony is apparently "deeply concerned".

I really wish he'd just fcuk off again.

Why has this situation of NPHET speaking to the Irish public been allowed to develop and continue? They should be briefing Government in private and the relevant minsters briefing the public.

The language being used is deliberately hysterical.

07-10-2020 6:57pm

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I think the sale of alcohol in off licenses and supermarkets should be banned in level 3 and higher. Let's see how you like that.

Meh I’d have to do without beer but I’ve enough of a stock of wine and spirits to see out a very long period so I’ll survive.

hamburgham · 07-10-2020 7:01pm

acequion wrote: »

So therefore it looks as if our restrictions are indeed the harshest in Europe. And we're expected to just suck that up!! We're hard working, well educated but heavily taxed and with a heavily indebted state and like other democracies we vote for Governments who we task with fixing the wrongs of our infrastructure. But repeated Governments are too useless, inefficient and bureaucratic to fix for example our lamentable health service, one of the worst, if not the worst in Europe. So now we the citizens have to pay a heavy price with these horrendous restrictions for fear we might topple the increasingly fragile deck of cards that is our health service.

I'm certainly not ok with that.:mad::mad:

Leprechaun science trying to protect a leprechaun health service.

07-10-2020 7:07pm

One thing I hate to read is how our health service is called one of the worst in Europe. We actually have one of the best health services in Europe if not the world it’s capacity that’s the issue I just think that needs to be pointed out as it does sound like people claim the service is terrible when it’s far from it.

hynesie08 · 07-10-2020 7:13pm

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

One thing I hate to read is how our health service is called one of the worst in Europe. We actually have one of the best health services in Europe if not the world it’s capacity that’s the issue I just think that needs to be pointed out as it does sound like people claim the service is terrible when it’s far from it.

Our system collapses as soon as we have a cold snap, every year we're hearing of 80 year olds being left on trolleys or chairs for days on end..... We have fantastic healthcare workers, but the service is a bloated money hole.....

dalyboy · 07-10-2020 7:40pm

Can anyone answer this for me ?

How is it constitutionally possible a government is considering a €200 FINE for moving from one county to another county in your own country ?
Is there a caveat in our constitution that allows for this possible implementation by the government of the day ?

Or has this been ripped up now that we are in a casedemic?

Lundstram · 07-10-2020 7:43pm

Came across a checkpoint on the way to work this morning and again at the same spot on the way home. These muppets are making honest, hard working people's lives a misery now with all this traffic build up. Do they think lads are on their way to a fcuking house party at 7:30am on a wet miserable Wednedsay morning?

I had very little respect for the Gardai before and have zero now. Standing on the road annoying the very people who pay their astronomical wages and now easy over-time.

What the fcuk has happened to this country? It's akin to a communist state at this stage.

Baffled by it all.

Zebra3 · 07-10-2020 7:45pm

dalyboy wrote: »

Can anyone answer this for me ?

How is it constitutionally possible a government is considering a €200 FINE for moving from one county to another county in your own country ?
Is there a caveat in our constitution that allows for this possible implementation by the government of the day ?

Or has this been ripped up now that we are in a casedemic?

This wasn't an issue and then after the cry babies let rip, it suddenly became an issue.

Of course nobody wants to deal with the realities of how stupid the lines are that the Brits drew centuries ago and how they effect people on the ground.

appledrop · 07-10-2020 7:48pm

Fuming after an hour long delay this morning on my commute to work.

They were still there on way home but could see it on sat nav so could avoid it although had to go longer way home.

Why in gods name would you decide to do checkpoints at peak hours.

Where else do they think people were going apart from work?

Zebra3 · 07-10-2020 7:49pm

appledrop wrote: »

Fuming after an hour long delay this morning on my commute to work.

They were still there on way home but could see it on sat nav so could avoid it although had to go longer way home.

Why in gods name would you decide to do checkpoints at peak hours.

Where else do they think people were going apart from work?

All just for show.

Hand in Your Pants · 07-10-2020 7:49pm

Guardian showing gazillions of people crowded together on Greek streets celebrating Golden Dawn trial with no mention of danger of viral transmission. But when a tiny fraction of that number gather to protest government covid restrictions in London there is no shutting them up about it.

acequion · 07-10-2020 7:54pm

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

We actually have one of the best health services in Europe if not the world .

:D:D:D:D You must be having one helluva session there! Popping a few pills as well are we!

Or else very blatant trolling. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

07-10-2020 7:59pm

dalyboy wrote: »

Can anyone answer this for me ?

How is it constitutionally possible a government is considering a €200 FINE for moving from one county to another county in your own country ?
Is there a caveat in our constitution that allows for this possible implementation by the government of the day ?

Or has this been ripped up now that we are in a casedemic?

There was no issue in having fines for leaving your 2km/5km zones during the lockdown so doubt there is an issue making the rule for counties.

It’s only a matter of time before level 5 and 5km limits anyway so the county thing will be short lived.

07-10-2020 8:00pm

Lundstram wrote: »

Came across a checkpoint on the way to work this morning and again at the same spot on the way home. These muppets are making honest, hard working people's lives a misery now with all this traffic build up. Do they think lads are on their way to a fcuking house party at 7:30am on a wet miserable Wednedsay morning?

I had very little respect for the Gardai before and have zero now. Standing on the road annoying the very people who pay their astronomical wages and now easy over-time.

What the fcuk has happened to this country? It's akin to a communist state at this stage.

Baffled by it all.

Can you work from home?

appledrop wrote: »

Fuming after an hour long delay this morning on my commute to work.

They were still there on way home but could see it on sat nav so could avoid it although had to go longer way home.

Why in gods name would you decide to do checkpoints at peak hours.

Where else do they think people were going apart from work?

It will be strong encouragement for anyone who can WFH to do so. Traffic was non existent in the lock down so there is obviously a lot who were WFH then going in at the moment.

Not saying you can btw but is certainly some of the reasoning imo.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings