Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

dalyboy

Jake1 wrote: »

Exactly. Whether you agree with them or not, isnt it nice to hear a different side? Shame we cant get decent report's like that, who actually question whats going on.
Too many people seem to be so happy to just hear what RTE BBC CNN report and take it all as gospel.
Im not saying they are wrong in everything they report, but they certainly are not right all the time either.

Straight from a state propaganda 101 playbook

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0916/1165543-rte-truth-matters-campaign/

Making the subjective actually objective. Thanks RTÉ

Idbatterim

"Minister blames Covid as just 725 social housing units built in first half of this year " https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-housing-725-5226332-Oct2020/

20% of the planned figure... brilliant! Forget house building, jobs, mental health etc. Covid is the only game in town lads ... bankrupting the country a second time in little over a decade! Lol!

Rrrrrr2

Idbatterim wrote: »

Minister blames Covid as just 725 social housing units built in first half of this year "https://jrnl.ie/5226332

20% of the planned figure... brilliant! Forget house building, jobs, mental health etc. Covid is the only game in town lads ... bankrupting the country a second time in little over a decade! Lol!

And the irony of course as they're destroying the economy for no reason whatsoever the more and more people that will be dependent on social housing and services...the same services we won't be able to afford thanks to destroying the economy....

Kiwi in IE

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

And the irony of course as they're destroying the economy for no reason whatsoever the more and more people that will be dependent on social housing and services...the same services we won't be able to afford thanks to destroying the economy....

Exactly! We will be worrying about all sorts of communicable diseases that we don’t have to worry about presently, not just the covid, if the health system fails to the point of medical treatments and routine vaccines becoming unavailable due to lack of the revenue required to provide health and social services. What do people imagine is going to be the outcome of continuous lockdowns? When the money runs out eventually what is going to happen?

Idbatterim

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Exactly! We will be worrying about all sorts of communicable diseases that we don’t have to worry about presently, not just the covid, if the health system fails to the point of medical treatments and routine vaccines becoming unavailable due to lack of the revenue required to provide health and social services. What do people imagine is going to be the outcome of continuous lockdowns? When the money runs out eventually what is going to happen?

You are giving these fools far too much credit, they literally cant think passed covid and the next "50+ critical weeks "

Lundstram

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Exactly! We will be worrying about all sorts of communicable diseases that we don’t have to worry about presently, not just the covid, if the health system fails to the point of medical treatments and routine vaccines becoming unavailable due to lack of the revenue required to provide health and social services. What do people imagine is going to be the outcome of continuous lockdowns? When the money runs out eventually what is going to happen?

Expect your income tax to rise significantly. They've been quite vocal about no tax hikes in next weeks budget, this is purely to keep the sheep in line as any cut in take home pay would wake a lot of people up to what's happening. They'll strike when all this is over. People can't see the wood from the trees, this is not free money we are borrowing, little interest but the capital has to be repaid.

The lockdown we had in March has crippled driving tests centres. 8 month wait now. That's a decent baromter of what will happen with the HSE waiting lists.

NCT and licences extended but they can't extend people's health problems, doesn't work like that.

Hovering around 20% unemployment now, tax take for 2021 will take a massive hit. VAT will be on the floor. Fuel excise duty on the floor. Motor tax take on the floor due to many not bothering since WFH has become a thing. Retail sales on the floor, Christmas will take a massive hit this year.

Patting themselves on the back on the radio the other day as they agreed to draw down the 1.2bn rainy day fund set aside for Brexit. Well done, lads. A drop in the oceon of sh1t that awaits us and our youth for many years to come.

Idbatterim

Ff need to be very careful. If they are at the helm and the music stops when things go bang economically , with them in power with mm at the helm, fg will blame them on a second bust in very close succession. Despite the fact it was purely timing and fg were, are and would fo the same thing as ff, this time round and pre the last bust...

Kiwi in IE

Idbatterim wrote: »

You are giving these fools far too much credit, they literally cant think passed covid and the next "50+ critical weeks "

This is an insane situation. People are banned from speaking about what is a the only feasible solution because unbelievably absurd accusations of ‘selfishness‘, ‘eugenics’, ‘elder abuse‘ start to fly. Those who are most vulnerable need to be fully and comprehensively supported to isolate IF THEY CHOOSE to! So if someone is a hairdresser and they have a medically certified heart condition, they should have the option of being paid by the state to stay home and isolate until a time when the risk lessens, while the rest of us carry on earning the revenue to pay them. Everyone who is in good health and not particularly vulnerable to covid carries on. There is some risk, undiagnosed conditions etc, but since when is it the governments job to remove all risk from our lives whether or not we want them to? Surely the above is better than paying the entirety of huge sectors of the economy the covid payment and wage supplements for the medium to long term future and having a huge percentage of businesses (the majority of those that aren’t multinationals) fail? The virus is not going away. This response is ridiculous.

acequion

Penfailed wrote: »

It must've been a very quick read through.

France - no wedding receptions, Paris and hundreds of other municipalities have mandatory face masks outdoors.
Spain - most regions face masks obligatory outdoors.
Netherlands - only three people to visit your home.
Germany - minimum fine of €50 in shops and public transport.

All of those are harsher restrictions than here.



Yes. Harsher. All pubs closed in the central region stretching from coast to coast including Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Jesus talk about shoving a square pin into a round hole! :rolleyes:
Scotland = all pubs closed. Ireland = all pubs closed. 1+1 = 2 not 3. And you really are clutching at straws if you're going to come back and tell me they can serve outside here. Did you see the weather today and you do realise we're in October!!

Also, restaurants are open in Holland. A far bigger freedom than the numbers allowed call to your house. And better for the economy.

Mask wearing!! How in god's name is mask wearing harsher on a person than not being able to go out to a bar or restaurant?? I was in Spain during the summer. I wore my mask everywhere, including when I was heading out to dinner. Give me obligatory mask wearing any day, a very small price to pay for the far bigger freedom of being able to go out. And a million times less injurious on the economy.

And as to fines, as I said in an earlier post if that's what you meant you should have said. And I would agree that enforcement is stricter in other countries and I don't have a problem with that. Bring in reasonable restrictions and enforce them. Job done. Not this half arsed bolloxology of policing by consent.:rolleyes:

You're trying to win an argument you've well lost. Because we have the worst and most stupid restrictions. And we don't even police them allowing those who couldn't give a damn to keep breaking them. Which leaves us in a never ending merrygoround of pointless lockdowns and very frustrated citizens.

Heckler

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I wish they would go to Level 5.... Or to a Holahan level 7... Everything closed, bookies and off-licences too.... Gardai/Army food collection points...

Might wake up the Irish people then...

Re the Off-Licences

Close them all ? Massive influx of alcohol from the North and the continent. Black market thrives and alcohol tax plummets. More thousands unemployed.

Restricted Hours ? Will make no difference to students and long term dole layabouts who might have to get up an hour or so before usual to get their booze.

Employ quotas on how much you can buy ? I have in a mile any direction, 2 off-Licences, 3 centras and a supervalu that all sell alcohol. Get quota in one, go to another for more. Pointless.

Only people who it will hit are the working 9-5 who, in these stressful times, look forward to a drink at the end of the working week.

Heckler

Heckler wrote: »

Re the Off-Licences

Close them all ? Massive influx of alcohol from the North and the continent. Black market thrives and alcohol tax plummets. More thousands unemployed.

Restricted Hours ? Will make no difference to students and long term dole layabouts who might have to get up an hour or so before usual to get their booze.

Employ quotas on how much you can buy ? I have in a mile any direction, 2 off-Licences, 3 centras and a supervalu that all sell alcohol. Get quota in one, go to another for more. Pointless.

Only people who it will hit are the working 9-5 who, in these stressful times, look forward to a drink at the end of the working week.

Oh and restricted hours again ? More people congregating at the same time when we are told to stay apart. Queues out the door. Genius thinking....

Penfailed

acequion wrote: »

Jesus talk about shoving a square pin into a round hole! :rolleyes:
Scotland = all pubs closed. Ireland = all pubs closed. 1+1 = 2 not 3. And you really are clutching at straws if you're going to come back and tell me they can serve outside here. Did you see the weather today and you do realise we're in October!!

Also, restaurants are open in Holland. A far bigger freedom than the numbers allowed call to your house. And better for the economy.

Mask wearing!! How in god's name is mask wearing harsher on a person than not being able to go out to a bar or restaurant?? I was in Spain during the summer. I wore my mask everywhere, including when I was heading out to dinner. Give me obligatory mask wearing any day, a very small price to pay for the far bigger freedom of being able to go out. And a million times less injurious on the economy.

And as to fines, as I said in an earlier post if that's what you meant you should have said. And I would agree that enforcement is stricter in other countries and I don't have a problem with that. Bring in reasonable restrictions and enforce them. Job done. Not this half arsed bolloxology of policing by consent.:rolleyes:

You're trying to win an argument you've well lost. Because we have the worst and most stupid restrictions. And we don't even police them allowing those who couldn't give a damn to keep breaking them. Which leaves us in a never ending merrygoround of pointless lockdowns and very frustrated citizens.

You say restrictions are the harshest here. I point out all those places with harsher restrictions. Factual information. You talk around them as if they're not so bad really. That's an argument that I can't possibly win I'm afraid. You're arguing that black is white. Facts are facts.

With regard to mask wearing, if it's not so bad, why are so many ignoring the restriction to do so?

You're trying to win an argument using diversions and spin. Knock yourself out.

CruelSummer

https://twitter.com/cr15b/status/1313902302089052166?s=21

Could the leaks have been from Donnelly or one of his officials? Absolutely shameful if so, not only failing to govern, but failing to bring serious proposals before Government to be given consideration before being made public.

CruelSummer

Three public pools and gym facilities in the area under serious financial pressure and may close. So no way to exercise and keep healthy for the winter if this comes to pass...not to mention the many vulnerable groups that need them. Serious health and well being implications will arise.
But this is ok as long as Covid gets to zero for a week or two? Because after speaking to people living in New South Wales, Australia last night - they got to zero. Reopened and what do you know - cases today.

uli84

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://twitter.com/cr15b/status/1313902302089052166?s=21

Could the leaks have been from Donnelly or one of his officials? Absolutely shameful if so, not only failing to govern, but failing to bring serious proposals before Government to be given consideration before being made public.

Payback? What a joke altogether, acting like kids or like participants of a bad reality show.

TexasTornado

Iv'e the last 10 pages of this thread and tbh it should be in the conspiracy theories forum.

Go out for a walk guys/gals, get some air, go for a swim etc... All this "ta gubbermint are are out to get us" rubbish is not good for you.

CruelSummer

TexasTornado wrote: »

Iv'e the last 10 pages of this thread and tbh it should be in the conspiracy theories forum.

Go out for a walk guys/gals, get some air, go for a swim etc... All this "ta gubbermint are are out to get us" rubbish is not good for you.

Nobody is saying that here, they’re discussing the far reaching consequences of the Restrictions and their impacts on the population. ‘Conspiracy theorists’ is a tried and trusted dig at people wanting to discuss this but I’m afraid - we’re just discussing facts like the economy, jobs, other health impacts, etc.
Would you be able to answer my question while here re what protections have been put in place to protect nursing homes right now? That isn’t a lockdown? Dr Tony seems to think lockdown is the only way to protect them from Community Transmission. It’s a serious failure in policy and strategy to not have these places well resourced and protected.
Some people on here have been badly affected By the Restrictions, but thanks for stopping by with your insights.

Plumbthedepths

CruelSummer wrote: »

Nobody is saying that here, they’re discussing the far reaching consequences of the Restrictions and their impacts on the population. ‘Conspiracy theorists’ is a tried and trusted dig at people wanting to discuss this but I’m afraid - we’re just discussing facts like the economy, jobs, other health impacts, etc.
Would you be able to answer my question while here re what protections have been put in place to protect nursing homes right now? That isn’t a lockdown? Dr Tony seems to think lockdown is the only way to protect them from Community Transmission. It’s a serious failure in policy and strategy to not have these places well resourced and protected.
Some people on here have been badly affected By the Restrictions, but thanks for stopping by with your insights.

Best ignored, same poster spent most of yesterday trying to wind up others on the main thread.

weldoninhio

Penfailed wrote: »

You say restrictions are the harshest here. I point out all those places with harsher restrictions. Factual information. You talk around them as if they're not so bad really. That's an argument that I can't possibly win I'm afraid. You're arguing that black is white. Facts are facts.

With regard to mask wearing, if it's not so bad, why are so many ignoring the restriction to do so?

You're trying to win an argument using diversions and spin. Knock yourself out.

Ireland, pubs closed since March bar 2 weeks. No end in sight. Restaurants closed unless outdoor seating, 15 max

Scotland, pubs closed for 16 days (in central belt ONLY) Open in rest of country.
Restaurants allowed open.


If you can’t seen which one is harsher there you need to to go Specsavers.

_Kaiser_

It's very noticeable how the tone of the reports from NPHET has changed since Holohan came back at the weekend. Leaving aside the mess over the weekend which it seems now Leo tried to make personal political capital on (as usual), the "end is coming" nonsense has really ramped up in the last few days.

Now there's talk of cancelling Christmas:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/christmas-could-be-cancelled-as-covid-surges-across-nation-and-medics-urge-move-to-level-4-39600035.html

"If we can collectively as a country get back to the solidarity we saw earlier, there is nothing inevitable about the spread of this virus," Dr Holohan said. But he too issued a warning about the festive season ahead.

"At various points in the year, there are events that need specific consideration. We will give that to Christmas and we hope we are not in a position at Christmas, in disease terms, where we are having to advise people they can't meet other households or travel outside their houses. We understand how socially challenging that would be for people."

I'm deadly serious now when I ask how much longer people will continue to put up with these threats and finger-wagging and disruption to their lives and livelihoods.

weldoninhio

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's very noticeable how the tone of the reports from NPHET has changed since Holohan came back at the weekend. Leaving aside the mess over the weekend which it seems now Leo tried to make personal political capital on (as usual), the "end is coming" nonsense has really ramped up in the last few days.

Now there's talk of cancelling Christmas:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/christmas-could-be-cancelled-as-covid-surges-across-nation-and-medics-urge-move-to-level-4-39600035.html



I'm deadly serious now when I ask how much longer people will continue to put up with these threats and finger-wagging and disruption to their lives and livelihoods.

Once Tony fcuked off he should have stayed fcuked off.

CruelSummer

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's very noticeable how the tone of the reports from NPHET has changed since Holohan came back at the weekend. Leaving aside the mess over the weekend which it seems now Leo tried to make personal political capital on (as usual), the "end is coming" nonsense has really ramped up in the last few days.

Now there's talk of cancelling Christmas:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/christmas-could-be-cancelled-as-covid-surges-across-nation-and-medics-urge-move-to-level-4-39600035.html



I'm deadly serious now when I ask how much longer people will continue to put up with these threats and finger-wagging and disruption to their lives and livelihoods.

I think a media survey would be a good idea, and the source of where their information comes from. How many push notifications and doom articles are released on a daily basis. Not to mention radio hosts, rte presenters at it too. They couldn’t wait to get their Christmas is cancelled articles out.

Penfailed

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ireland, pubs closed since March bar 2 weeks. No end in sight. Restaurants closed unless outdoor seating, 15 max

Scotland, pubs closed for 16 days (in central belt ONLY) Open in rest of country.
Restaurants allowed open.


If you can’t seen which one is harsher there you need to to go Specsavers.

You've picked one restriction and choosen to ignore the rest. I'm talking about current restrictions. Pubs are open in Ireland (except Dublin).

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's very noticeable how the tone of the reports from NPHET has changed since Holohan came back at the weekend. Leaving aside the mess over the weekend which it seems now Leo tried to make personal political capital on (as usual), the "end is coming" nonsense has really ramped up in the last few days.

Now there's talk of cancelling Christmas:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/christmas-could-be-cancelled-as-covid-surges-across-nation-and-medics-urge-move-to-level-4-39600035.html



I'm deadly serious now when I ask how much longer people will continue to put up with these threats and finger-wagging and disruption to their lives and livelihoods.

As long as it takes to beat this virus. People I’m talking to outside of boards are almost all very much behind Tony and NPHET, very concerned with his letter and think it should have been taken more serious by government and just generally wanting to get the virus cases down and if that means more restrictions then so be it.

I still think you and other posters are totally blind to how bad things could get if we let the virus get out of control any more than it is now. We could have frightening and sickening daily death tolls before you even realise it’s happening.

Kiwi in IE

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

As long as it takes to beat this virus. People I’m talking to outside of boards are almost all very much behind Tony and NPHET, very concerned with his letter and think it should have been taken more serious by government and just generally wanting to get the virus cases down and if that means more restrictions then so be it.

I still think you and other posters are totally blind to how bad things could get if we let the virus get out of control any more than it is now. We could have frightening and sickening daily death tolls before you even realise it’s happening.

Do you realise how bad things could get due to continuous lockdowns? How are we going to ‘beat the virus’? How are we going to get to zero transmission and the. guard against its return without putting the country into a position where it cannot afford to pay for the health system and social services?

3xh

‘.......where we are having to ADVISE people they can't meet other households or travel outside their houses. We understand how socially challenging that would be for people."

And still some of us here admit they’d follow this advice to the letter. Beyond help. Beyond saving.

What does travelling outside your house even mean?! Sounds like in his efforts to make potential restrictions unpalatable, he overcooked the threat saying that. Just weakens it, as a result.

bush

Do you talk to anyone who goes out in the real world to work or is it people who sit at home working? Because everyone at my work thinks its a complete overreaction. And I mean everyone I haven't talked to anyone who is scared about it anymore.

funnydoggy

I talk to probably a few hundred people a day from colleagues to customers and the general feeling is tired.

They'll go along with restrictions of course, but wanting more of them is not something they want, bar a small handful who are on the verge of wearing hazmat suits.

Remember all the heartwarming messages and videos that came out at the beginning of this - where are they now? The mere mention of "we're all in this together" is cringey now because we know it isn't true whatsoever. Even some government heads believe this or they wouldn't have went for a game of golf and a big meal.

The nation is tired and I think it's beginning to see the damage these blanket restrictions are doing.

average_runner

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ireland, pubs closed since March bar 2 weeks. No end in sight. Restaurants closed unless outdoor seating, 15 max

Scotland, pubs closed for 16 days (in central belt ONLY) Open in rest of country.
Restaurants allowed open.


If you can’t seen which one is harsher there you need to to go Specsavers.

And all getting ready to shutdown again now

Penfailed

funnydoggy wrote: »

I talk to probably a few hundred people a day from colleagues to customers and the general feeling is tired.

They'll go along with restrictions of course, but wanting more of them is not something they want, bar a small handful who are on the verge of wearing hazmat suits.

Remember all the heartwarming messages and videos that came out at the beginning of this - where are they now? The mere mention of "we're all in this together" is cringey now because we know it isn't true whatsoever. Even some government heads believe this or they wouldn't have went for a game of golf and a big meal.

The nation is tired and I think it's beginning to see the damage these blanket restrictions are doing.

I agree.