Shootings in Paris - Multiple fatalities.

Venus In Furs · 07-01-2015 1:46pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

While you pretend you are morally superior to them.

Most people kinda are if they don't commit atrocities/don't celebrate them.

Mother of god the moral equivalency/whataboutery here on this thread... maybe it's just a piss-take.

ambro25 · 07-01-2015 1:46pm

peckerhead wrote: »

This. Among the dead are the most high-profile political cartoonists/columnists in France — Cabu, Charb, Wolinski...)

Not seen that yet...Are Cabu and Wolinksi really amongst the dead?

ireland.man · 07-01-2015 1:47pm

Bambi wrote: »

What were the people in that newspaper doing overseas?

Regardless of creating the circumstances that give rise to fascism, you don't appease or make excuses for fascists, you stamp on them.

I agree, you don't try to reason with fascism. You don't try to negotiate with these fanatics in paris. But let's not be wilfully dense, we need to understand the whole context to understand why terrorism exists at this point in time. Understanding a political reality isn't sympathy for any side.

Kiith · 07-01-2015 1:47pm

It was a cartoon. These animals have absolutely no justification for this. And while you can't blame an entire religion for the acts of a few animals, the rest of the Islamic world need to stand up and utterly condemn acts of violence like this.

As for the video, I don't need to see someone being murdered like this to understand the tragedy of someone being murdered like this.

Venus In Furs · 07-01-2015 1:47pm

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

I'm not blaming "victims". The people who did this were murderous assholes, however what do you expect people who have been continuous victims of Western aggression to do?

The magazine in question was a staunch supporter of Israel and its policies, policies which have been responsible for the death of thousands of innocent civlians in recent years, the majority women and children. The editor routinely referred to Palestinians as "uncivilized". Does that mean he deserves to be killed? Absolutely not, however it puts him on the side of murderers and if you're on the side of the people who are actuallly being murdered then what would you do?

The pro-Israel lobby in the west has shut down any democratic route to a solution to this problem - look at their actions in the UN last week. So sorry, but we don't get to act all shocked and surprised when extremists do these things. Because we create these extremists by our own actions.

Sorry for pointing out the fact that we can't expect to keep ****ting on the people of the Midddle East and not expet to get horrible blowback from time to time. Every single operational leader in the 9/11 attacks became radicalized because of US support for Israel's policies.

Please quit the "we" bollocks.

VinLieger · 07-01-2015 1:47pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

While i dont deny that there is Muslim condemnation of these terrible events, i do think they need to do more. If ordinary Muslims want to truly integrate and be part of our society then they have to pull their socks up and sort this stuff out.

This is it though they don't want to integrate, they want control and to be in charge and if we dont do something now our children or our childrens children will be living in a muslim controled europe. The average muslim family birthrate is something like 3 times higher than the average european families, they will outnumber us in our own countries a lot sooner than the PC brigade will ever acknowledge

Streetwalker · 07-01-2015 1:47pm

Any selfies from the scene yet?

Grand Moff Tarkin · 07-01-2015 1:47pm

ireland.man wrote: »

Remember too that this event in paris will have to happen 50,000 times more to equal the lower estimates of the number of Muslims killed since 2001 by western countries. If we want to avoid sickening terrorist incidents like this, we need to examine what we're doing overseas. It's not happening in a vacuum.

What is sickening is your support of the terrorists.

whiskeyman · 07-01-2015 1:47pm

Every single media outlet in the Western World should publish / air the 'offending' material to show solidarity and make a point that these terrorists will not win.

eug87 · 07-01-2015 1:47pm

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

I'm not blaming "victims". The people who did this were murderous assholes, however what do you expect people who have been continuous victims of Western aggression to do?

The magazine in question was a staunch supporter of Israel and its policies, policies which have been responsible for the death of thousands of innocent civlians in recent years, the majority women and children. The editor routinely referred to Palestinians as "uncivilized". Does that mean he deserves to be killed? Absolutely not, however it puts him on the side of murderers and if you're on the side of the people who are actuallly being murdered then what would you do?

The pro-Israel lobby in the west has shut down any democratic route to a solution to this problem - look at their actions in the UN last week. So sorry, but we don't get to act all shocked and surprised when extremists do these things. Because we create these extremists by our own actions.

Sorry for pointing out the fact that we can't expect to keep ****ting on the people of the Midddle East and not expet to get horrible blowback from time to time. Every single operational leader in the 9/11 attacks became radicalized because of US support for Israel's policies.

This happened in France not Israel or the states,seems your defending the attackers here as they had no choice.

kstand · 07-01-2015 1:47pm

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

I'm not blaming "victims". The people who did this were murderous assholes, however what do you expect people who have been continuous victims of Western aggression to do?

The magazine in question was a staunch supporter of Israel and its policies, policies which have been responsible for the death of thousands of innocent civlians in recent years, the majority women and children. The editor routinely referred to Palestinians as "uncivilized". Does that mean he deserves to be killed? Absolutely not, however it puts him on the side of murderers and if you're on the side of the people who are actuallly being murdered then what would you do?

The pro-Israel lobby in the west has shut down any democratic route to a solution to this problem - look at their actions in the UN last week. So sorry, but we don't get to act all shocked and surprised when extremists do these things. Because we create these extremists by our own actions.

Sorry for pointing out the fact that we can't expect to keep ****ting on the people of the Midddle East and not expet to get horrible blowback from time to time. Every single operational leader in the 9/11 attacks became radicalized because of US support for Israel's policies.

So Hizbollah and Hamas had nothing to do with Israeli policy, they just did things off a whim?

Grand Moff Tarkin · 07-01-2015 1:48pm

Nodin wrote: »

Large amounts yes

Fixed that.

ireland.man · 07-01-2015 1:49pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

What is sickening is your support of the terrorists.

Support? You think being ignorant if the war on terrorism is supporting one side? I'll let glen greenwald and others know they're terrorist supporters then.

SEPT 23 1989 · 07-01-2015 1:49pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

Every single media outlet in the Western World should publish / air the 'offending' material to show solidarity and make a point that these terrorists will not win.

the whole front page of every newspaper

shruikan2553 · 07-01-2015 1:49pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

I have never danced in the streets with happiness at the deaths of innocents. It is only the followers of Islam who partake in that pratice.

While you wish to put them into camps.

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Most people kinda are if they don't commit atrocities/don't celebrate them.

Mother of god the moral equivalency/whataboutery here on this thread... maybe it's just a piss-take.

It is a person who wants to put Muslims into camps. Of course everyone who doesnt agree is taking part in whataboutery :rolleyes:

I doubt all muslims will celebrate it anyway. The hivemind might be busy for a night. You dont seem too bothered about you people claiming if you dont agree with you then you support murdering innocent people.

LordNorbury · 07-01-2015 1:49pm

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

I just watched that video and actually think it should be made compulsory viewing as a realistic measure to demonstrate what these bastards actually do.

To those who ask, what about the dignity of the poor man as his last moments were filmed, I say, let this video be used in his memory to serve as a reminder of how evil these terrorists actually are. At least then his death won't be in vain.

People seem to think that these things only happen far away and so adopt an out of sight out of mind approach. That cosy attitude is akin to ignoring something bad in the hope that it will go away.

Well Islamic Jihadist terrorism isn't going away and its not that far away either. And by turning a blind eye to the reality of what happens, we only leave the door open for these bastards to return in even more vengeful religious fuelled hatred to commit worse atrocities.

RIP to those who died today but lets hope their deaths will help turn the minds of those who condone such futile acts of terrorism. Many of whom are living in our midst.

I was watching ISIS video's last year and someone thought I was off my rocker, looking at a clip where 100 men were lined up sitting down with their hands tied behind their back in a desert, each one shot in the head and falling to the ground before the gunman puts a bullet in the head of the next poor victim.

Then the latest video I watched, where an ISIS guy turns up with a box of kitchen knives and a team of executioners, they cut off the heads of around 12 men.

This stuff should indeed be made compulsory viewing because people need to see the sheer, utter and total madness that these radicalised Islamic terrorists are capable of. People need to see what is going on in the world today, and what is going on today in Iraq and Syria, I've never seen going on anywhere in the world in my life before last year.

BlaasForRafa · 07-01-2015 1:50pm

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Charlie Hebdo should publish similar cartoons as soon as possible.

iirc Charlie Hebdo is a pretty small magazine, I don't think they'll be publishing anything for a while....if ever.

EVERY newspaper should publish similar cartoons as a show of solidarity....or else tomorrow print blank front pages as a sign of this attack on free speech.

Dog of Tears · 07-01-2015 1:50pm

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Charlie Hebdo should publish similar cartoons as soon as possible.

Every newspaper in every democratic country should including our own.

They won't though.

Paul_Hacket · 07-01-2015 1:50pm

Palmach wrote: »

Morons like you who engage in such whatabouterry make me sick. The journalists at Charlie Hebdo attacked no one. Whoever attacked them did so because of their own extreme ideology.

So if I published a magaine staating that Jews are uncivlized and deserve to have their land confiscated and be forced to live permanently in tiny refugee camps in horrific conditions then I have attacked nobody and should expect no repercussions for my words. Right?

Nodin · 07-01-2015 1:50pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Fixed that.

A bad idea, as now we'll have to see evidence of your notion. 6 hours should be enough.

bear1 · 07-01-2015 1:51pm

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

I'm not blaming "victims". The people who did this were murderous assholes, however what do you expect people who have been continuous victims of Western aggression to do?

The magazine in question was a staunch supporter of Israel and its policies, policies which have been responsible for the death of thousands of innocent civlians in recent years, the majority women and children. The editor routinely referred to Palestinians as "uncivilized". Does that mean he deserves to be killed? Absolutely not, however it puts him on the side of murderers and if you're on the side of the people who are actuallly being murdered then what would you do?

The pro-Israel lobby in the west has shut down any democratic route to a solution to this problem - look at their actions in the UN last week. So sorry, but we don't get to act all shocked and surprised when extremists do these things. Because we create these extremists by our own actions.

Sorry for pointing out the fact that we can't expect to keep ****ting on the people of the Midddle East and not expet to get horrible blowback from time to time. Every single operational leader in the 9/11 attacks became radicalized because of US support for Israel's policies.

Are you for real or is this a piss take?
What side was that policeman on when he was shot dead?

whiskeyman · 07-01-2015 1:51pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

the whole front page of every newspaper

Yep.
Heck, get everyone to wear t-shirts with it too.

Wurzelbert · 07-01-2015 1:51pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

Every single media outlet in the Western World should publish / air the 'offending' material to show solidarity and make a point that these terrorists will not win.

they would be too scared for that...that's how far the west has fallen...

jimboblep · 07-01-2015 1:51pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nope, just pointing out that EVERY religion has a history.

except thats history and this is the present
so do we ignore this problem now and say sure didnt christians do it years ago
or do we try to deal with it.

Amazingfun · 07-01-2015 1:51pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

I have never danced in the streets with happiness at the deaths of innocents. It is only the followers of Islam who partake in that pratice.

In fairness-they are not the only ones

Streetwalker · 07-01-2015 1:51pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

Every single media outlet in the Western World should publish / air the 'offending' material to show solidarity and make a point that these terrorists will not win.

As long as the west keeps bombing the sh it out of the middle east there will be terrorists who will step forward. This will get worse before it get's better im afraid.

Gbear · 07-01-2015 1:52pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

He is correct.

Islam is the biggest threat to the safety of Europe.

If it wasn't that it'd be something else.

Islamic extremism will die when it's adherents aren't mostly illiterate peasants.

The theocracies and extremism can't coexist with education, wealth, secularism and humanism.

If Muslims can be properly assimilated they won't be any trouble, but that'll probably just equate to not being recognisably Muslim.

Nodin · 07-01-2015 1:52pm

VinLieger wrote: »

This is it though they don't want to integrate, they want control and to be in charge and if we dont do something now our children or our childrens children will be living in a muslim controled europe. The average muslim family birthrate is something like 3 times higher than the average european families, they will outnumber us in our own countries a lot sooner than the PC brigade will ever acknowledge

*sigh

Cyclingtourist · 07-01-2015 1:52pm

Time to repeal Ireland's 2009 Blasphemy law.

I lobbied against it at the time and afterwards for its repeal but got nowhere. Still incredible that the last government found legislative time for this embarrassing and anti-free speech piece crap and especially in the midst of a the worst financial crisis the country has ever seen.

pmasterson95 · 07-01-2015 1:53pm

I said the defenders of islamic murderers would blame Israel I'm not disapointed.

Paul_Hacket · 07-01-2015 1:53pm

kstand wrote: »

So Hizbollah and Hamas had nothing to do with Israeli policy, they just did things off a whim?

Hizbollah and Hamas did not exist until Israeli Zionists ethnically cleansed the Palestinians from their homeland and then used the full might of US supplied battlefield weaponry to bomb them into submission.

The Bould Rabbit · 07-01-2015 1:53pm

ireland.man wrote: »

Remember too that this event in paris will have to happen 50,000 times more to equal the lower estimates of the number of Muslims killed since 2001 by western countries. If we want to avoid sickening terrorist incidents like this, we need to examine what we're doing overseas. It's not happening in a vacuum.

Recent history obviously not your strong point then.

France (quite publically) declined to have anything to do with the US led invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Much to the chagrin on many in the USA who demanded that French Fries be renamed Freedom Fries and even suggesting that the Statue of Liberty be returned.

kstand · 07-01-2015 1:53pm

Gbear wrote: »

If it wasn't that it'd be something else.

Islamic extremism will die when it's adherents aren't mostly illiterate peasants.

The theocracies and extremism can't coexist with education, wealth, secularism and humanism.

If Muslims can be properly assimilated they won't be any trouble, but that'll probably just equate to not being recognisably Muslim.

What a wonderfully Utopian view you have - completely unworkable unfortunately.

Calina · 07-01-2015 1:54pm

Amazingfun wrote: »

Who said anyone "needed" it? It happened and the video was posted.

Those of us that deal in reality could view it through that lens and not need therapy afterwards.

Dude. If you read the post I quoted, you'll notice someone suggested it be made mandatory to watch it.

Dealing in reality involves dealing with detail as well.

wretcheddomain · 07-01-2015 1:54pm

Streetwalker wrote: »

As long as the west keeps bombing the sh it out of the middle east there will be terrorists who will step forward. This will get worse before it get's better im afraid.

So foreign policy should be, in effect, determined by Muslims?

VinLieger · 07-01-2015 1:54pm

Nodin wrote: »

*sigh

Yeah can sigh all you want birthrate demographics don't lie

cnocbui · 07-01-2015 1:54pm

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

I'm not blaming "victims". The people who did this were murderous assholes, however what do you expect people who have been continuous victims of Western aggression to do?

The magazine in question was a staunch supporter of Israel and its policies, policies which have been responsible for the death of thousands of innocent civlians in recent years, the majority women and children. The editor routinely referred to Palestinians as "uncivilized". Does that mean he deserves to be killed? Absolutely not, however it puts him on the side of murderers and if you're on the side of the people who are actuallly being murdered then what would you do?

The pro-Israel lobby in the west has shut down any democratic route to a solution to this problem - look at their actions in the UN last week. So sorry, but we don't get to act all shocked and surprised when extremists do these things. Because we create these extremists by our own actions.

Sorry for pointing out the fact that we can't expect to keep ****ting on the people of the Midddle East and not expet to get horrible blowback from time to time. Every single operational leader in the 9/11 attacks became radicalized because of US support for Israel's policies.

FOAD you bleeeep.

RobertKK · 07-01-2015 1:55pm

Hopefully the murderers are caught quickly and in a safe manner for the police/army or whoever is involved.

There has been a rise in attacks and incidents in France and elsewhere in Europe.

People should act in a manner that doesn't cause unneeded aggravation, there are enough extremists out thee to put one's life in severe danger.
This is not censorship just common sense.

What happened today is going to become more common as extremism is on the rise.

ireland.man · 07-01-2015 1:55pm

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Recent history obviously not your strong point then.

France (quite publically) declined to have anything to do with the US led invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Much to the chagrin on many in the USA who demanded that French Fries be renamed Freedom Fries and even suggesting that the Statue of Liberty be returned.

So you think I'm wrong about having invaded a predominantly islamic region in the last few years?

bjork · 07-01-2015 1:55pm

"Western" involvement is interference
Muslims won't acknowledge there is a problem

Stalemate

kstand · 07-01-2015 1:55pm

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

Hizbollah and Hamas did not exist until Israeli Zionists ethnically cleansed the Palestinians from their homeland and then used the full might of US supplied battlefield weaponry to bomb them into submission.

I'm not denying that - but in recent years there has been a softening of the Israeli stance but Hizbolah and Hamas will not deal with them in any way. I know the Zionists are as big as problem as anything else we face - but there is never any justification for the execution of innocent people.

Grand Moff Tarkin · 07-01-2015 1:55pm

Nodin wrote: »

A bad idea, as now we'll have to see evidence of your notion. 6 hours should be enough.

It is in the hands of Allah now.

SpaceTime · 07-01-2015 1:56pm

This is actually a total disaster for normal French Muslims and minority groups in general in France.

These psychopaths have now potentially catapulted Marie Le Pen into the Elysée Palace.
There are already serious issues in France and this is just going to make matters much, much worse.

nokia69 · 07-01-2015 1:56pm

Gbear wrote: »

If it wasn't that it'd be something else.

Islamic extremism will die when it's adherents aren't mostly illiterate peasants.

The theocracies and extremism can't coexist with education, wealth, secularism and humanism.

If Muslims can be properly assimilated they won't be any trouble, but that'll probably just equate to not being recognisably Muslim.

and yet most of the leaders of islamic terrorist groups are millionaires with excellent educations

there are thousands of muslims from Europe fighting in syria and iraq with ISIS, none of these people are illiterate peasants

Gatling · 07-01-2015 1:56pm

And in mosques across europe preachers will spew hatred and vile and celebrate this Atrocity against western society and Western freedoms while demaning the west supports them with social welfare entitlement and housing while hiding behind the skirts of the do-gooders and the European court of human rights

Paul_Hacket · 07-01-2015 1:56pm

bear1 wrote: »

Are you for real or is this a piss take?
What side was that policeman on when he was shot dead?

Looks like you rather massively missed the point. Do you really think we can follow policies which are responsible for the deaths of literally millions in the Middle East for absolutely no good reason and then not expect the occasional extremist to react in a horrific manner? Grow up.

Calina · 07-01-2015 1:57pm

ambro25 wrote: »

Not seen that yet...Are Cabu and Wolinksi really amongst the dead?

Yes, along with Charb, Tignous, apparently. Charb's last cartoon which you can find on twitter is sobering. Word is one of the police officers who died was detailed with protecting Charb.

Donkey Oaty · 07-01-2015 1:57pm

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Wasn't there a case recently involving an attack on a Jewish museum involving a Kalashnikov armed man, who then fled?

Yes, there are similarities there all right - used Kalashnikov, covered his head with a baseball cap and didn't blow himself up.

However, he was acting alone and fled on foot. The suspect is supposed to have been an ISIS volunteer in Syria (he is awaiting trial) - maybe these guys have that kind of background as well?

Beano · 07-01-2015 1:57pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

I said the defenders of islamic murderers would blame Israel I'm not disapointed.

I'm surprised its taken them this long.

pmasterson95 · 07-01-2015 1:57pm

Gatling wrote: »

And in mosques across europe preachers will spew hatred and vile and celebrate this Atrocity against western society and Western freedoms while demaning the west supports them with social welfare entitlement and housing while hiding behind the skirts of the do-gooders and the European court of human rights

And as you can see in this thread. People will blindly support them until they are on chopping block and realise maybe these people aren't very nice.

Shootings in Paris - Multiple fatalities.

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