dog whisperer

Dominating your dog at every turn does not make you a good dog owner, it makes you a bully.

Your dog is scared? Dominate

Your dog has food issues? Dominate

Your dog is confused? Dominate

It's ridiculous.

Fantastic that he pushes the need to exercise your pet, and that he maintains you need to be consistant. The problem is on the show he deals with hard cases, then you have fools trying the same things wiith their pets when a gentler and more understanding approach would be much more appropiate.

There are some good aspects to what he does, like putting the emphasis on the human owner rather than the dog. 99% of the time its something the owner is doing wrong.

It also shows that there is the chance your dogs behaviour will stop with the right training. That message has got to be a big plus for the rescues and pounds, how many times will they have a dog surrendered because of some behaviour that could be altered with training,barking,chewing ect. Whether you fully agree with his processes he is getting that message out there every night.

I dont fully understand the ins and outs of all the different training techniques, I couldnt comment on his use of shock collars, i can only hope that the video is old and maybe he learned that they are not cool. I know what worked for me seemed like a mix of both dominance and reward.

I dont think positive reinforcement is always appropriate, there have to be instances where you are dominating. I dont mean physically kicking or anything but I have def used my body to show dominance over my dog when her behaviour is not ok. Stepping in between her and another person.

I would have never got my dog walking if I hadnt tried tugging on her lead to redirect her attention. She was afraid to walk and rewards werent making a difference so I just went on, i would give a quick sharp jolt on the lead to redirect if she started looking around all panicked. And just keep going forward no matter what. After about 2 days she was grand and now loves her walk. I looked at it like a child, i was the grown up and knew there was nothing to be afraid of so i put her in the position to face that fear and see that. Sometimes they need your to be authoritative, esp when they are young.

After longish post i would say,i dont think he's all that bad.

I saw a beautiful Weimaraner dog one day out for a walk with his very grumpy looking owner. The guy did not even look at the dog who was happily trotting along beside him looking up at him.
Passed them again about 15mins later and saw the guy give the poor dog a swift kick back behind him (same way Cesar does). The poor dog was shocked and I am sure as clueless as me as to why he deserved it.

Anyway I am kind of 40/60 with cesar. I do think he promotes exercise and the dog being a dog not a fluffy accessory(sp:rolleyes:). I am not comfortable with shocks or prongs though. A correction does not need to be that harsh and I think that when folks try to copy him there is a danger of the dog getting walloped.
I saw one of his newest series and I did not see him using much what I would call agressive correcting but I only watched the one.

Whispered wrote: »

no he's not. Not by a long shot. I'll be back in a few mins with links to the videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFCGtatpCwI&feature=player_embedded#at=110

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHvPhFelym4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpcNOwbRyOE&feature=related


First one doesnt work. Second one is not cruelty its allowing a dog to get over a mental block. Third one is bull. The dog in the third vid was not being choked, I cant see how thats even plausible and the gsd, fair enough, I wouldnt use a shock collar either but if it means being able to live with your animals and neither of them being killed, its worth it. That was obviously a last resort. All those scenes were on tv so its not like they were being hidden from the public.

To the OP, theres no point bringing up CM on this forum. Im a big fan, I dont live by everything he does but the vast majority of it I use everyday and find very helpful. I think if it works for you and its not harming your dogs its obviously a good thing.

**Vai** wrote: »

Her main method seems to be avoiding all problems and putting temporary solutions in place.

But you think its ok for Cesar to kick, choke, use prong and shock collars on them? Because thats what he does, ive seen the footage of it.

**Vai** wrote: »

Her main method seems to be avoiding all problems and putting temporary solutions in place.

I wouldn't say thats true, Ive not seen to many of her episodes but he ones i have seen seem to kind of be the opposite actually. Lots of time and effort to get her techniques to work.

Like the one with Jodi Marsh, she had her setting alarms to get the dogs out to go bathroom every hour or so. Thats not a temporary solution or avoiding the problem its putting a lot of effort into fixing it.

btw i like Caesar.

GirlFridayEire wrote: »

Sorry but you obviously are seeing what you want to see, he does not 'Kick' dogs but touches them with his foot, this snaps them out of the aggressive mentality and gets them listening again. He works on the dogs own language, the way their hierarchy works, but hey if you think you have something better than Ceasar Milan bring it on ..................

Have you ever seen your pet dogs kick each other? All of that research was done on wolves. Dogs are not wolves. There are thousands of years of evolution separating dogs from wolves. A good example of this - a wolf would see a smile as a threat - dogs don't. And even at that, it's flawed, there is no one alpha dog in a wolf pack, rather an alpha breeding pair.

Packs of wild dogs would be more reliable to study and in packs of wild dogs there is not nearly as much emphasis on pack placement as in wolf packs.

Something better than Millan? How about working with your dog, setting him up for success and trying to really understand why he acts as he does rather than but everything down to the old fashioned, flawed and already disproved idea of dominance.

http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=12230

The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) issued a new position paper aimed at countering some of the pervasive influence of his show, which airs on the National Geographic Channel, and of Millan's training approach, which is based on what the position statement calls outdated dominance theory.

Dogs have lived with humans for 15,000 years, and they evolved as scavengers, not hunters. So it is not legitimate to compare dogs with wolves and wolf packs, which do hunt, according to the statement. The evolutionary pressure on dogs was that the least shy animals were the most successful in ransacking human refuse. Today's free-roaming dogs live in small, less cohesive groups rather than packs and are often alone.

Moreover, the notion that every pack has an aggressive alpha male that rules over all the others originated from observations of captive wolves. But, research on wild wolves suggests that wolf packs are not rigidly controlled by a single domineering male, according to L. David Mech, a senior scientist with the U.S. Geological Survey who has studied wild wolves in Michigan and Northern Minnesota for more than 40 years.

Mech says a pack usually has an alpha pair and that most of the rest of the pack is that pair’s offspring. That means the lead male never fought for dominance but merely reproduced. The lead male does not always lead during hunts or in anything else for that matter.

Dominance theory leads to an antagonistic relationship between human and pet and to negative and coercive training methods, the AVSAB statement says. A punishment approach can backfire.

**Vai** wrote: »

Whispered, I would never ever hurt or scare my dog into doing anything and I would hate for people to think that because Im a CM fan, I am cruel to my dogs. My dogs obey me because they know who the boss is, not because they are scared of me. The only physical part of CM's training I have used is the 'bite' on the neck. As long as this is done without anger of frustration, it is a perfectly natural part of disciplining a dog for unwanted behaviour.

Far as Im concerned we should listen to these tv trainers less and just use common sense and research the natural behaviour of our dogs in order to understand and get along with them.

I don't think you're cruel.

My dogs obey me because they want to make me happy, when I'm happy nice things such as belly rubs, treats, cuddles or even just a pat on the bum happen. They know I'm boss because I'm the provider of food, provider of the couch and the one who brings them walkies. Not because I'm big enough to push them around. (I'm not saying you push your dogs around)

Yes they play up, in which case they are leashed/ crated/ removed from the situation. I've not had to resort to "biting". I think if I lost control to the point I felt I needed to physically reprimand my dog I'd begin looking for advice.

When they are overly focused on something, I usually find a touch is enough to get their attention. It doesn't have to be rough.

I 100% agree with you saying that we should listen to these tv trainers less and just use common sense and research the natural behaviour of our dogs. I think if you're in tune with your pet, good behaviour comes naturally.

@ Whispered; As I tried to explain, its not rough. Unless its done with anger of frustration, then it is rough and cruel.

Im 99.8% in agreement with u (thats genetically how close dogs are to wolves ) and I agree that every dog owner should have his/her own way. If the CM way doesnt work for someone there are loads of other choices and different names put on different styles of training. Personally, parts of it work for me, mainly the parts about controlling yourself, nevermind the dog! Being calm assertive as CM puts it is the best advice for any dog owner, not that he has the copyright on that feeling

Anyone who is in tune with their dog will know the best way to train that particular dog but its no harm to pick up tips from these tv trainers.