dog whisperer

Whispered

caseyann wrote: »

The man saved dogs others wanted to kill.Enough said!

A great quality no doubt, but many who oppose his methods have done the same. (EGAR for example) And to be fair, the fact he rescues has nothing to do with his training methods.

EGAR

caseyann wrote: »

The man saved dogs others wanted to kill.Enough said!

Hmm, in front of a rolling camera, 'nuff said indeed

caseyann

Whispered wrote: »

A great quality no doubt, but many who oppose his methods have done the same. (EGAR for example) And to be fair, the fact he rescues has nothing to do with his training methods.

I dont know who this EGAR
His methods change for each Dog and if they were wrong he would be not popular nor would the dogs be happy.

EGAR wrote: »

Hmm, in front of a rolling camera, 'nuff said indeed

Ah stop he was asked because he was first invited to will smiths house to help him with his dog.And then he passed him on to other celebs.Not his fault he got a deal out of it is it.Like you wouldnt do the same to earn a living and do something you love doing.

EGAR

No, I actually like dogs, I do not bully them into submission, I do not kick them or strangle them until they pass out. The evidence is there, open your eyes and SEE!

caseyann

EGAR wrote: »

No, I actually like dogs, I do not bully them into submission, I do not kick them or strangle them until they pass out. The evidence is there, open your eyes and SEE!

Kick he never kicks them rubbish.He doesn't strangle them either.He holds them at a distance so not to get bit so they calm down.He taps them on the side and he demonstrates it to the owners to show how slight a touch he puts on the dog.
He was here wasnt he? .Pity no one is on boards who went to see him to de bunk the rubbish against him or verify it for you.

Whispered

caseyann there are posts above with professional societies speaking out about his methods. There are videos which have been removed from you-tube (still linked for proof of removal). There are pages and pages of discussion on CM on other forums, there are programmes which show his use of a shock collar, there are programmes which show his use of a prong collar, there is a show which shows him dragging a giant breed up and down stairs despite them not supposed to use stairs at a young age (bone development), there are shows where he visibly antagonises a dog to get an explosive reaction, which he then calls dominance, there is a programme where a dog visibly passes out through strangulation during a stand-off, and he has a disclaimer on his show.

There are very few trainers who need to hold dogs at a distance to avoid getting bitten, they just go in with a less aggressive demeanour and try to work with the dog rather than make the dog fear them.

You're going to believe what you want and defend him, and therein lies the biggest problem. He promises quick easy results and a lot of the time that is all people want.

carwash_2006

Caseyann, have you never heard of editing?

Quick

the Caesar headlock!

Cherry Blossom

caseyann wrote: »

I dont know who this EGAR

FYI :

http://www.egar.org/

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/East-Galway-Animal-Rescue/169411475888?sk=info

andreac

caseyann wrote: »

Kick he never kicks them rubbish.He doesn't strangle them either.He holds them at a distance so not to get bit so they calm down.He taps them on the side and he demonstrates it to the owners to show how slight a touch he puts on the dog.
He was here wasnt he? .Pity no one is on boards who went to see him to de bunk the rubbish against him or verify it for you.

Yes he does!!! I have seen the videos to prove it, a dog laid on the ground after it, barely able to breathe, was on the verge of death because he had been choked for so long. The video clip has since been removed from you tube, go figure:rolleyes:
Wake up and realise we are not posting this stuff for a laugh, he actually did it and we saw the footage to prove it.

All of the programmes you see have been edited to death, so you dont see what he does to these animals to get them to do what he wants.
Believe what you want but we have seen the footage.

Read my post back a page or 2 where i have put up a link from topdog.ie where i originally saw these videos and see my reaction posted (Supercooper is my username on it).

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

At the end of the day all it is, is a TV show, you might as well be disagreeing with Jack Sugden's farming technique on Emmerdale.

Yes but he is taken as gospel by many dog owners who try to reproduce his methods.

I will never understand this submission creed. Two of my three dogs had been horribly abused & both are breeds known for nervous dispositions. They are now wonderfully confident & assured. I want my dogs to be dogs & never submissive.

SophieSakura

I read one of his books and it said basically, first thing in the morning don't greet your dog with too much attention, take it for a walk, then feed it, then give it attention, and that's natural for dogs. And I tried that and it worked really well, my dogs got into a routine with it and they were more calm and stuff. It was just saying to act like the pack leader and calm and assertive.

But I don't really like other things he does. I stopped liking him when I saw an episode of his show with a Shih-tzu, I think, it was on a walk and went after another dog so he picked it up by the scruff. I know you can pick small dogs up by the scruff without really hurting them, but he was really rough and it was unnecessary. My dogs are a similar size and if I pick them up by the scruff it doesn't feel like they're supported enough and sometimes they cry. (I don't usually do that, but like when they got out of the garden and I had to lean over the fence and pick them up, I had to pick them up like that.) And they say not to scruff Shih-tzus anyway in case their eyes pop out . . . and he really didn't have to be so rough.

And I don't like choke chains or shock collars or anything. I guess they can work to train a dog, but I wouldn't use them.

And after hearing how much it cost for his show in Dublin, and some people said you might aswell just watch the TV show cos it was the same, it makes it seem like he's just wanting to make money now.
I like Victoria Stilwell

Discodog

EGAR wrote: »

A book on that subject that I can highly recommend for the interested party:

"Canine Body Language: A Photographic Guide: Interpreting the Native Language of the Domestic Dog by Brenda Aloff"

Edited to add Roger Abrantes' *Dog Language: An Encyclopedia of Canine Behavior*

The latter has in depth chapters on all sorts of dog behavior explained in an easy to understand manner. I love that book and it should become a must for each dog owner

Haven't read the first but the second is good & I agree with EGAR that every dog owner would learn a lot about their dog. After all the dog has evolved a unique language, in an attempt to communicate with us. They use different body language with humans than they do with other dogs. As the dogs have made such an effort it seems only fair that we should do our best to understand them.

Discodog

SophieSakura wrote: »

I read one of his books and it said basically, first thing in the morning don't greet your dog with too much attention, take it for a walk, then feed it, then give it attention, and that's natural for dogs.

All of my three get a nice cuddle - they wait in turn. It's their reward for letting me lie in . I am happy to let them express their joy that I am up & that breakfast is on it's way. Right now all three are on their bed patiently waiting for a walk. If they think that I have forgotten them my eldest dog (is she delegated the job ) will come over & remind me.

Dogs don't lead "natural" lives they are totally domesticated over thousands of years. They accept me as "leader" in the sense that I give them what they want & need. One funny example is that my Greyhound loves to share a bed with my older dog - all that body warmth. But the older dog is all legs so tends to take up most of the bed. The Greyhound will come over to me, put her head in my lap & mumble. She will then look over to the bed. She is asking me to drag the older dog over a bit to make room on the bed .

Bullseye1

Take the good stuff you learn and leave the other stuff out.

peasant

For those Cesar fans who don't have an aversion to reading long articles:

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/
(please read the other chapters as well)


http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm
(also check out the links)

ISDW

Dogs know that humans are not dogs, so why would they assume that we are their pack leader? I have 11 dogs of my own here in my home, I know who the canine pack leader is, you only have to watch the pack interact with each other. My pack leader, Diesel comes and sits next to me every morning and he gets a little bit of my toast, just him, no other dog. My dogs sleep on my bed at night with me - shock horror. Yet, if anyone has seen the photos I've put up of me working my dogs, you will see that they do as I ask, they listen to me. I don't dominate them, we are a partnership.

When Diesel was younger he was very dog aggressive, and I actually tried to do the whole dominance thing with him, nearly ruined our relationship. Then I started to 'listen' to him instead. Now, instead of having a dog that wants to fight with every other dog we meet, I have a dog who is very, very obedient (especially considering he's a siberian husky!) and who works his little paws off for me when I ask him to. We were out in a forest one day and a stupid woman with her two dogs off lead, out of control dogs, let them come up to my working team, she was calling them, but they were ignoring her. Her JRT went right underneath Diesel and was stood there sniffing his undercarriage. All Diesel did was growl at him, because I was asking him to leave it. A few years ago, that dog would have been breakfast, but we now have a level of trust and not a relationship of fear and mistrust.

I have a dog here at the moment that was due to be pts because he had apparently bitten somebody. I know that if I'd used the dominance approach with him, and tried alpha rolling, kicking etc, I would have been bitten and that dog would now be dead. However, by building trust with him, we are coming on in leaps and bounds, I was wrestling with him this morning, and he was grabbing my hand gently in his mouth and playing with me. There is still a very long way to go with him, and he can only go a new home that is experienced and will know how to work with him, but the last person who tried to rehome him (before he went to the pound and then to me) used all of that 'I'm the boss' stuff with him, and all it did was make him very, very scared. This dog is so clever and just wants to be treated with a little bit of respect, not be subjugated.

Dogs need to have manners, of course they do, but not instilled by fear. How arrogant of man to think he has to dominate another species.

Discodog

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Take the good stuff you learn and leave the other stuff out.

The problem is that most people won't know the good from the bad & the bad can have very serious consequences. I know of one behaviourist who would like to prosecute CM for incitement to commit cruelty. All "gurus" have their detractors but CM is in a league of his own.

He comes from a dark age based on primitive outdated research. One of the links that Peasant has posted explains that the "roll" has nothing to do with dominance. Maybe someone like Shaun Ellis could let CM try his techniques on a real Wolf pack - I would pay to see that !

caseyann

Why do people insist on preaching at others all the time.
Believe what you want i didnt ask you if he was right or wrong neither did OP.
The thread was about who likes the dog whisper.
I grew up with dogs all my life and i dont need yous telling me what to do.
I like the dog whisperer and all the ranting and raving isnt going to change that.
I know more about dogs than majority of yous and i have lived with dogs all my life in huge amounts and been training them since i was 4 years old.:D
I started walking my first GSD when i was 6 alone.I know everything i need to know about dogs.
And even ceaser says he is not a dog trainer and not to try at home any methods.Humans are the ons who need training not dogs.He is right.

caseyann

Discodog wrote: »

The problem is that most people won't know the good from the bad & the bad can have very serious consequences. I know of one behaviourist who would like to prosecute CM for incitement to commit cruelty. All "gurus" have their detractors but CM is in a league of his own.

He comes from a dark age based on primitive outdated research. One of the links that Peasant has posted explains that the "roll" has nothing to do with dominance. Maybe someone like Shaun Ellis could let CM try his techniques on a real Wolf pack - I would pay to see that !

Ah i see because dogs understand becoming modern do they? And change their instincts?

Whispered

caseyann wrote: »

Why do people insist on preaching at others all the time.

It's a discussion about CM, as such, people are discussing. You call it preaching because people have shown how CM is wrong in a lot of things. So you're going to insult people as opposed to actually discussing the topic?

caseyann wrote: »

I grew up with dogs all my life and i dont need yous telling me what to do.

You're taking this very personally, who is telling YOU what to you, again, thread is about CM, as such people are talking about CM and his training methods.

caseyann wrote: »

I know more about dogs than majority of yous and i have lived with dogs all my life in huge amounts and been training them since i was 4 years old.:D

LOL at this assumption. FYI both EGAR and ISDW are very well known rescues. AFAIK both known for taking on difficult dogs.

There are also quotes (which people who support CM are conveniently not commenting on) from an american vet behavioural place; do you suggest you know more than them too?

caseyann wrote: »

I started walking my first GSD when i was 6 alone.I know everything i need to know about training dogs.

well done! you believe you know everything you need to know about training dogs. Even the best trainers in the world would not assume that. Although that assumption would explain your reluctance to consider that what is being said is true.

So in that post you've told us we're preaching, that we're off topic, that you know more than anybody else (including professional bodies) and that you walked a dog when you were 6. Perhaps in your next post you'd like to comment on the fact that dominance theory has been shown to be majorly flawed, time and again, that the American welfare society has tried to get his show banned and that there are many many trainers who abhor his methods and consider them cruel and outdated.

Whispered

caseyann wrote: »

Ah i see because dogs understand becoming modern do they? And change their instincts?

What has that got to do with the post you quoted? The dogs haven't bcome outdated, we've learned that the research is flawed and outdated. The very instincts they have been attributed do not exist to the extent we once thought.

caseyann

Sorry when people do that i cant read it anymore.

ISDW

caseyann wrote: »

Why do people insist on preaching at others all the time.
Believe what you want i didnt ask you if he was right or wrong neither did OP.
The thread was about who likes the dog whisper.
I grew up with dogs all my life and i dont need yous telling me what to do.
I like the dog whisperer and all the ranting and raving isnt going to change that.
I know more about dogs than majority of yous and i have lived with dogs all my life in huge amounts and been training them since i was 4 years old.:D
I started walking my first GSD when i was 6 alone.I know everything i need to know about dogs.
And even ceaser says he is not a dog trainer and not to try at home any methods.Humans are the ons who need training not dogs.He is right.

Now who's preaching? You know more than the majority of people on here, and you're basing that assumption on what? I know loads about dogs, but I'm still learning every day, I would never ever say that I know everything I need to know about them.

Now, as a parent and responsible dog owner, theres no way on earth I would let a 6 year old walk a dog by themselves, for the child and dog's safety, but I guess my priorities must be different to yours? I don't know how old you are, but I'm guessing you used to do this before the control of dogs act came into force, because obviously you wouldn't be breaking the law and putting your dog's life at risk.

I do agree with you that humans need the training, so why then teach them to kick the dog? I know, I know you're going to say yet again that its not a kick, but if you could watch those videos that have been taken down, you would see it is a kick. The one that I remember is the husky that was walking along with him doing nothing wrong, just walking nicely, until he kicked it, then the dog jumped up and tried to bite him - so then he had to 'restrain' him by nearly choking him, poor dog.

If he's not a dog trainer, why is he not called the human whisperer?

I would like to actually watch him work with a dog in person, not see an edited TV programme, to see exactly what he does and how effective it is.

**Vai**

Jaysus lads are ye still going on about this. Stop watching tv, read The Dogs Mind by Bruce Fogle and away ye go.

@peasant; Im a CM fan who has no aversion to long articles, indeed sometimes I even read books! No need for the attitude.

caseyann

ISDW wrote: »

Now who's preaching? You know more than the majority of people on here, and you're basing that assumption on what? I know loads about dogs, but I'm still learning every day, I would never ever say that I know everything I need to know about them.

Now, as a parent and responsible dog owner, theres no way on earth I would let a 6 year old walk a dog by themselves, for the child and dog's safety, but I guess my priorities must be different to yours? I don't know how old you are, but I'm guessing you used to do this before the control of dogs act came into force, because obviously you wouldn't be breaking the law and putting your dog's life at risk.

I do agree with you that humans need the training, so why then teach them to kick the dog? I know, I know you're going to say yet again that its not a kick, but if you could watch those videos that have been taken down, you would see it is a kick. The one that I remember is the husky that was walking along with him doing nothing wrong, just walking nicely, until he kicked it, then the dog jumped up and tried to bite him - so then he had to 'restrain' him by nearly choking him, poor dog.

If he's not a dog trainer, why is he not called the human whisperer?

I would like to actually watch him work with a dog in person, not see an edited TV programme, to see exactly what he does and how effective it is.

Excuse me?

ISDW

caseyann wrote: »

Excuse me?

What?

Discodog

caseyann wrote: »

Ah i see because dogs understand becoming modern do they? And change their instincts?

It's called Evolution.

caseyann

ISDW wrote: »

What?

What does that mean and whats it in relation to? Are you calling my parents irresponsible? Or are you calling me irresponsible for being six and being able to walk a full sized GSD ?

Discodog

Stressica wrote: »

Anyone else here a fanatic of Caesar Milan.. aka dog whisperer?:D

Fanatic seems to be a very appropriate word