dog whisperer

Groom!

Oh God it's the wolf argument again. Pleeeease don't even go there.

Wolves are generations apart from dogs.

Dogs are not trying to dominate a different species. Their main mentality is "can I eat it, chew it, chase it?"

Discodog

nudag wrote: »

I have seen alot of nature programs where wolves challenge one another in their heirarchy to try and get higher up in the pack and so to get more food etc. If this didnt happen then the leader of the pack would be an toothless wreck who has been there for years and the pack would not survive anyway!
I must be wrong though!

Take a look at any of the Wolfman Shaun Ellis video's on youtube or read his books. Some of the programs still crop up on TV. No one & I mean no one knows more about Wolves than Shaun because he lives with them, as a Wolf. You will also find the Martin Clunes program where he goes in with Shaun's pack - worth watching just to see Clune's expression .

Every member of a Wolf pack is vital to the packs survival. Even mild aggression can result in injuries, infection, an inability to hunt & death. So aggression is avoided except where a new "rogue" outsider male tries to infiltrate the pack's territory.

There is a wonderful moment in Wolfman where a behaviourist from Yellowstone comments that this guy (meaning Shaun) knows more about Wolves than he has learnt in 30 years of study.

But as others have said Dogs are not Wolves & even a pack of dogs will not behave anything like a Wolf pack.

Galway K9

Ok im just gonna state facts here and not opinions to attempt to put this to rest.

Millions of years on throughout evolution, we still have the primal and survival traits of the apes (baboon to be frank) and we can see them everyday just looking at our raw behaviour unmasked by manners and charm..

Keeping this length of evolution in mind, and the bahaviours that very much still exist in us, it flaws the theory that dogs do not behave same as a wolf as 17,000 years (Maximum) cannot breed out the wolf traits and behaviour and from an opinion perspective i see very little difference from my dog to a wild grey wolf in many documentaries i watch and study.:)

Cherry Blossom

Galway K9 wrote: »

Ok im just gonna state facts here and not opinions to attempt to put this to rest.

The expert has spoken so now so I've no need to look at this thread again.

Are you just going to ignore EGAR's posts in reply to your attempts to tarnish her reputation?

Galway K9

Discodog wrote: »

I thought that you were a dog trainer - or am I wrong ?. If so then why would you ask the question ?. How can you punish a dog if it attacks a person ?. What do you do to punish it & how will the dog know why it was punished ?.

Surely the first priority is to establish why it attacked & what had happened in it's past, not to praise or punish.

I never said i was a dog trainer in here....did i? Im just dog lover and warming to cats. ha

When i say punish i mean to correct the behaviour immediatley if still happening. An attack is an attack and shouldnt happen regardless and after incident i deal with counter conditioning, rank reductions and dog therapy and its motive not while its happening. My job is to correct that behaviour and send a clear message that its wrong at that moment. anyways this is way i deal with things.

Anyways im out...see ya disco.

Whispered

Galway K9 wrote: »

Keeping this length of evolution in mind, and the bahaviours that very much still exist in us, it flaws the theory that dogs do not behave same as a wolf as 17,000 years (Maximum) cannot breed out the wolf traits and behaviour and from an opinion perspective i see very little difference from my dog to a wild grey wolf in many documentaries i watch and study.

You didn't state facts - you gave your opinion.

While I'm sure the documentaries you have watched and studied have provided a wealth of information, I refer you to my earlier post quoting the AVSAB,

Dogs have lived with humans for 15,000 years, and they evolved as scavengers, not hunters. So it is not legitimate to compare dogs with wolves and wolf packs, which do hunt, according to the statement. The evolutionary pressure on dogs was that the least shy animals were the most successful in ransacking human refuse. Today's free-roaming dogs live in small, less cohesive groups rather than packs and are often alone.

Moreover, the notion that every pack has an aggressive alpha male that rules over all the others originated from observations of captive wolves. But, research on wild wolves suggests that wolf packs are not rigidly controlled by a single domineering male, according to L. David Mech, a senior scientist with the U.S. Geological Survey who has studied wild wolves in Michigan and Northern Minnesota for more than 40 years.

Mech says a pack usually has an alpha pair and that most of the rest of the pack is that pair’s offspring. That means the lead male never fought for dominance but merely reproduced. The lead male does not always lead during hunts or in anything else for that matter.

So there is no opinion there from me at all.

Do you agree with dominance based training?

On a side note, can you tell me why you were coughing Jan Fennells name at me last night. *cough*

Galway K9

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

The expert has spoken so now so I've no need to look at this thread again.

Are you just going to ignore EGAR's posts in reply to your attempts to tarnish her reputation?

Sarcasm doesnt suit ya haha. and Yes i am to be honest but absolutley am not tarnishing anyones reputation, EGAR has a rock solid one from establishing an open minded rescue for "Dangerous breeds":)

peasant

Galway K9 wrote: »

i see very little difference from my dog to a wild grey wolf in many documentaries i watch and study.:)

You should try reading something else, other than Jack London

Galway K9

Whispered wrote: »

You didn't state facts - you gave your opinion.

While I'm sure the documentaries you have watched and studied have provided a wealth of information, I refer you to my earlier post quoting the AVSAB,



So there is no opinion there from me at all.

Do you agree with dominance based training?

On a side note, can you tell me why you were coughing Jan Fennells name at me last night. *cough*

I was just stating observational facts about behaviours not opinion bar the end one. And to be honest that article is horse to me but i respect your belief, once ya have a genuine love of animals i hold no grudge at all.

I do not believe in alpha roll overs if thats what ya mean. And never mind the Jan Fennell thing, was out of place with that and falsely assumed.

Galway K9

peasant wrote: »

You should try reading something else, other than Jack London

haha dont even know him. Dont follow his writings or whatever. Thats not my source.

EGAR

Galway K9 wrote: »

Sarcasm doesnt suit ya haha. and Yes i am to be honest but absolutley am not tarnishing anyones reputation, EGAR has a rock solid one from establishing an open minded rescue for "Dangerous breeds":)

FYI I run a Bull Breed Rescue - that is all . What has that got to do with what small minded people perceive as *dangerous breeds*?

I do not know you, I do not participate in any classes your club offers, so I still do not understand your earlier posts my replies to which you keep ignoring. But then again :pac:

Galway K9

EGAR wrote: »

FYI I run a Bull Breed Rescue - that is all . What has that got to do with the what small minded people perceive as *dangerous breeds*?

I do not know you, I do not participate in any classes your club offers, so I still do not understand your earlier posts my replies to which you keep ignoring. But then again :pac:

I didnt see any, will look back now. I was referring to the classes out in the country where Mark OBrien was insisting on muzzles and thus caused the dissolution of their agility club including Rachel and Jane.

I assumed was not just Bull Breeds as know people who have received other dogs than bull breeds but who would be on the Dangerous breed list. However i was aware of your rescue does specialise in the Bull Breed.

andreac

Galway K9 wrote: »

Sarcasm doesnt suit ya haha. and Yes i am to be honest but absolutley am not tarnishing anyones reputation, EGAR has a rock solid one from establishing an open minded rescue for "Dangerous breeds":)

What dangerous breeds would that be as i dont know any breeds that are listed as "dangerous"??

andreac

Galway K9 wrote: »

I didnt see any, will look back now. I was referring to the classes out in the country where Mark OBrien was insisting on muzzles and thus caused the dissolution of their agility club including Rachel and Jane.

I assumed was not just Bull Breeds as know people who have received other dogs than bull breeds but who would be on the Dangerous breed list. However i was aware of your rescue does specialise in the Bull Breed.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A DANGEROUS BREEDS LIST!!!!!:mad:

Whispered

Galway K9 wrote: »

. And to be honest that article is horse to me

Why? Do you think the source is not credible? Or do you disagree with the contents of the article?

Galway K9 wrote: »

once ya have a genuine love of animals i hold no grudge at all.

Phew :pac:

Galway K9 wrote: »

I do not believe in alpha roll overs if thats what ya mean.

No I mean dominance based training. All that stuff, you know like you must eat before the dog, the dog shouldn't be higher than you, you should go through doors first etc.

Galway K9 wrote: »

And never mind the Jan Fennell thing, was out of place with that and falsely assumed.

I would still be interested in what you were trying to get at. Considering you said it twice and seemed quite sure of yourself at the time.

Galway K9

EGAR wrote: »

I wasn't aware that you know me? As far as I know I met you once in person during a fundraiser at an agility competition. And what I saw there were GSD on choke chains, nice ... not .

Werent my dogs i dont have GSD's at present. I have a labxrott. If i was with them then was holding them for other people and if they want to use them which i dislike thats their own business and right as much as i may disagree.

andreac

Galway K9, you are posting incorrect informtion such as dangerous breeds list which doesnt even exist.

Galway K9

Whispered wrote: »

Why? Do you think the source is not credible? Or do you disagree with the contents of the article?

Phew :pac:

No I mean dominance based training. All that stuff, you know like you must eat before the dog, the dog shouldn't be higher than you, you should go through doors first etc.

I would still be interested in what you were trying to get at. Considering you said it twice and seemed quite sure of yourself at the time.

I do nto know of the credibility of it but do disagree "somewhat".

I wouldnt follow eat before dog, but yes i do believe a dog should follow my leadership as im his protector not vice versa, and the door thing i dunno about that i dont think it works just brings in control if going out door thats all doesnt establish a hierarchy or anything.

EGAR

Galway K9 wrote: »

I assumed was not just Bull Breeds as know people who have received other dogs than bull breeds but who would be on the Dangerous breed list. However i was aware of your rescue does specialise in the Bull Breed.

I didn't think you lived in the UK? In Ireland there is only a Restricted Breeds Act, the Dangerous Dogs Act applies to the UK and NI ONLY.

Galway K9

andreac wrote: »

Galway K9, you are posting incorrect informtion such as dangerous breeds list which doesnt even exist.

Andrea excuse the inaccuracy but im simply refering to the below...no need to get hostile or picky on little trivialities or inconsistencies

Rules relating to certain breeds of dog

The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 (S.I. No. 442 of 1998) impose additional rules in relation to the following breeds (and strains/cross-breeds) of dog in Ireland:

• American Pit Bull Terrier
• English Bull Terrier
• Staffordshire Bull Terrier
• Bull Mastiff
• Dobermann Pinscher
• German Shepherd (Alsatian)
• Rhodesian Ridgeback
• Rottweiler
• Japanese Akita
• Japanese Tosa

andreac

Galway K9 wrote: »

Andrea excuse the inaccuracy but im simply refering to the below...no need to get hostile or picky on little trivialities or inconsistencies

Rules relating to certain breeds of dog

The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 (S.I. No. 442 of 1998) impose additional rules in relation to the following breeds (and strains/cross-breeds) of dog in Ireland:

• American Pit Bull Terrier
• English Bull Terrier
• Staffordshire Bull Terrier
• Bull Mastiff
• Dobermann Pinscher
• German Shepherd (Alsatian)
• Rhodesian Ridgeback
• Rottweiler
• Japanese Akita
• Japanese Tosa

Trivial?? Far from trivial when its the reputations of the wonderful dogs at stake.
I know the law, inside out as i own 2 rottweilers, so please, next time, unless you know the exact facts please dont post wrong information.

The word DANGEROUS and RESTRICTED mean very different things last time i checked so to get the 2 of them mixed up in relation to dogs could be a lot more than trivial.

Galway K9

EGAR wrote: »

I didn't think you lived in the UK? In Ireland there is only a Restricted Breeds Act, the Dangerous Dogs Act applies to the UK and NI ONLY.

Whats with the nick picking. Its pathethic im sorry but it is....nothign better than to pick out little inconsistencies to superiorise your egos by belittling my self worth (attempting)

Galway K9

andreac wrote: »

Trivial?? Far from trivial when its the reputations of the wonderful dogs at stake.
I know the law, inside out as i own 2 rottweilers, so please, next time, unless you know the exact facts please dont post wrong information.

I didnt quote wrong information, and i was not referring to the dogs at stake was refering to the terminology and you know that so dont dare insult me again...please.

EGAR

Galway K9 wrote: »

Whats with the nick picking. Its pathethic im sorry but it is....nothign better than to pick out little inconsistencies to superiorise your egos by belittling my self worth (attempting)

Hahaha, oh dear, so quoting the correct law in Ireland is nit picking and pathetic? And what has Irish law to do with my ego.. or your self worth for that matter?

ISDW

Galway K9 wrote: »

Whats with the nick picking. Its pathethic im sorry but it is....nothign better than to pick out little inconsistencies to superiorise your egos by belittling my self worth (attempting)

They are not little inconsistencies, the use of the word Dangerous is in itself dangerous to those breeds that are restricted. It helps to fuel some people's fear of certain breeds, because people such as yourself call them dangerous.

Anyway, don't know why I'm feeding the Troll:rolleyes:

andreac

Galway K9 wrote: »

Sarcasm doesnt suit ya haha. and Yes i am to be honest but absolutley am not tarnishing anyones reputation, EGAR has a rock solid one from establishing an open minded rescue for "Dangerous breeds"

Yes you did. There it is, you said Dangerous Breeds, there is no such thing in Ireland so yes, you did post incorrect information.

caseyann

Galway K9 wrote: »

Andrea excuse the inaccuracy but im simply refering to the below...no need to get hostile or picky on little trivialities or inconsistencies

Rules relating to certain breeds of dog

The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 (S.I. No. 442 of 1998) impose additional rules in relation to the following breeds (and strains/cross-breeds) of dog in Ireland:

• American Pit Bull Terrier
• English Bull Terrier
• Staffordshire Bull Terrier
• Bull Mastiff
• Dobermann Pinscher
• German Shepherd (Alsatian)
• Rhodesian Ridgeback
• Rottweiler
• Japanese Akita
• Japanese Tosa

You forgot this part The rules state that:

These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be kept on a short strong lead by a person over 16 years who is capable of controlling them
These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be muzzled whenever they are in a public place
These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must wear a collar bearing the name and address of their owner at all times.


The amount of people who do not abide by these rules are crazy.
Letting them off lead unmuzzled even if they are the best dog in the world.Doesnt matter.

And the only dangerous dog is a dangerous owner!

Galway K9

ISDW wrote: »

They are not little inconsistencies, the use of the word Dangerous is in itself dangerous to those breeds that are restricted. It helps to fuel some people's fear of certain breeds, because people such as yourself call them dangerous.

Anyway, don't know why I'm feeding the Troll:rolleyes:

I dont think theyre dangerous any of them at all and not a troll. I just refered to the Restricted breed act as dangerous and nothing meant by that but a invalid terminology reference.

And ISDW pls inform yoursef correctly on my personality and opinions before insulting as i do not regard any dog as dangerous. Quite simply i was wrong in the correct reference in the act thats it.

Galway K9

caseyann wrote: »

You forgot this part The rules state that:

These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be kept on a short strong lead by a person over 16 years who is capable of controlling them
These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be muzzled whenever they are in a public place
These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must wear a collar bearing the name and address of their owner at all times.


The amount of people who do not abide by these rules are crazy.
Letting them off lead unmuzzled even if they are the best dog in the world.Doesnt matter.

And the only dangerous dog is a dangerous owner!

Thats in the other part of the act this is just a snippet...thanks.:rolleyes:

andreac

caseyann wrote: »

You forgot this part The rules state that:

These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be kept on a short strong lead by a person over 16 years who is capable of controlling them
These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be muzzled whenever they are in a public place
These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must wear a collar bearing the name and address of their owner at all times.


The amount of people who do not abide by these rules are crazy.
Letting them off lead unmuzzled even if they are the best dog in the world.Doesnt matter.

And the only dangerous dog is a dangerous owner!

Yeah i know and its amazing the amount of people that let their 6 year old walk a GS too;)