dog whisperer

Bullseye1 · 21-03-2011 5:39pm

Shanao wrote: »

Qualified in basic obedience when i was sixteen, advanced obedience when I was eighteen, since have studied and qualified in canine behaviour, cynology, veterinary nursing, dog grooming, animal welfare, and kennel craft, and even though I still wouldn't call myself an expert (far too much for me to learn still as far as I'm concerned) i would consider myself qualified to tell you that Cesar Milan works through fear. Watch some of the dogs in his shows. He provokes the dogs, pushing them into a fearful or nervous state just so he can make himself look even better. Its all for the camera. He would probably make an alright trainer if he wasn't on the television because then he woukdn't have to resort to such tactics.
Most people here have been working with dogs for years, rescuing and rehabilitating so what exactly makes you think they aren't able to read a dog's body language?

And anyone who thinks its right to use a prong collar on a dog should be made wear one instead

Not sure where you may have got the impression that i would employ that collar. I would never use it. My dog is very well behalved.

Shanao · 21-03-2011 5:41pm

The last part wasn't in regard to you, it was in regard to the people who dont see Cesar Milan putting that on a dog as bullying.

Selfheal · 21-03-2011 5:48pm

I've heard of Cesar Millan but not familiar with his methods. To my mind though you can't beat James French's Trust Technique, as it promotes self-learning for the animal rather than dominance or "telling" the animal what to do. Either check him out on You Tube or have a look at trust-technique.com.

He's come over from the UK and given a couple of workshops here in recent years (at PAWS animal rescue). Hopefully coming back again later this year.

caseyann · 21-03-2011 6:36pm

andreac wrote: »

You would??

Sarcasm :pac:

aquarian_fire · 21-03-2011 6:43pm

I never really watched The Dog Whisperer, but from what little I've seen it doesn't seem right. Teaching a dog to behave should be as simple as showing the dog that you love it and protect it and having it trust you and then rewarding it when it behaves the way you like. It's like parenting, but with a dog instead of a child.

Whispered · 21-03-2011 6:44pm

caseyann wrote: »

Sarcasm :pac:

So do you disagree with their use in all circumstances?

Do you think that a trainer brought in to deal with nervous aggression should remove a prong collar or a shock collar?

caseyann · 21-03-2011 6:49pm

Whispered wrote: »

So do you disagree with their use in all circumstances?

Do you think that a trainer brought in to deal with nervous aggression should remove a prong collar or a shock collar?

I believe they should never use them on a dog.
Ofc they should.
I thought he was against prong collars aswell.

Shanao · 21-03-2011 6:54pm

In the video where he's strangling the dog, he puts a prong collar on the dog first. So unfortunately, no, he isn't against them.

Whispered · 21-03-2011 6:56pm

caseyann wrote: »

I thought he was against prong collars aswell.

He has actively used a shock collar in one episode to teach daddy to stay away from snakes. I have to say it was very hard to watch. I know people will say it was to teach him an important lesson, but I really think unnecessary.

In the video linked above, with the dog being choked, he begins with a prong. Yes he removes it, but only when it's already esclated beyond what it should be.

Discodog · 21-03-2011 7:39pm

EGAR has pointed out the key to all of this. All & any training has to be based on rewarding good behaviour & not punishing bad. We don't punish bad because 99% of the time the dog will not have a clue why it is being punished.

21-03-2011 8:38pm

At the end of the day, these are all theorys you may not agree with some of them. But not every theory has a 100% record either.

andreac · 21-03-2011 9:23pm

caseyann wrote: »

Sarcasm :pac:

Wasnt sarcasm, you said in your post that you would definately use one.

caseyann · 21-03-2011 10:11pm

andreac wrote: »

Wasnt sarcasm, you said in your post that you would definately use one.

Ah so now you know my mind and can tell me what i mean can you?
And thats why i added a pic of what kind of marks it leaves on a humans skin.

andreac · 21-03-2011 10:26pm

caseyann wrote: »

Ah so now you know my mind and can tell me what i mean can you?
And thats why i added a pic of what kind of marks it leaves on a humans skin.

Huh?
You posted a pic of a prong collar and said you would definately use one in the same post.

caseyann · 21-03-2011 10:27pm

andreac wrote: »

Huh?
You posted a pic of a prong collar and said you would definately use one in the same post.

Yeah on men

Whispered · 21-03-2011 10:39pm

caseyann, what are your thoughts on my post re the prong collar and shock collar?

Are you surprised that at the start of the video the dog is on a prong?

Galway K9 · 22-03-2011 2:07am

Whispered wrote: »

You mean that you believe the AVSAB needs to do some more research?

Did you read the reasons I quoted as to why dominance based training is flawed? I'd be interested in your comments on them.

I smell a Jan fenneller and and an irishdogs poster!:D

Galway K9 · 22-03-2011 2:13am

EGAR wrote: »

Over a thousand dogs have come through my doors in the past 15 years. Many with problems, many were dog aggressive, many more had fear aggression.

The worst you find here is a halfcheck collar used for dogs who easily spook so they can't wriggle out it and run away.

I have been bitten twice, once by a Yellow Lab who decided to attack me from behind and once by my own dog (Lurcher) when I split up a dogfight although the latter was entirely my own fault.

I do not use alpha rolls, do not buy into the dominance theory and do not follow any famous dogtrainer. The methods employed here are reward based, often time consuming and tuned to each dog's need. There is no blanket rule for all dogs, it is tailored for each individual dog. Simples. And it works as these dogs are being happily re-homed into family settings as pets. Because I know they have been trained not broken, I know I can trust them to behave in a certain manner in stress situations. EGAR would have long since been shut down if that would not be the case.

I handle dogs fresh from the pound, know nothing about their backrounds etc - never once bitten by one. I take dogs from other rescues as they deem them un-homeable.

And no, I do not consider myself a *special case* . Common sense prevails.

A good friend of mine once offered to sent me training aids (Roger Mugford who has been here quite often and supports EGAR, he runs The Company of Animals) and then sent me an email saying: "You don't really need any of them but perhaps you can sell them to raise funds."

It's easy: you need TRUST to train an animal properly. Everyone can scare an animal into submission - THAT is easy. Trust is not a given, just like with humans, it needs to be earned.

well Egar your dogs are having a ball at my club after your agility episode!

none are on prong or MUZZLE and all very happy|!:)
however i comp go against your personailty and methods but do go along with your love for dogs.

Pit bulls are welcome at my class:D

Whispered · 22-03-2011 2:17am

Galway K9 wrote: »

I smell a Jan fenneller and and an irishdogs poster!:D

Galway K9 · 22-03-2011 2:20am

Whispered wrote: »

Honest question: A dog attacks a person what are you going to do? Praise or punish?

*cough* jan fennnell *cough*

Whispered · 22-03-2011 2:34am

Galway K9 wrote: »

Honest question: A dog attacks a person what are you going to do? Praise or punish?

What type of attack? What are the circumstances? There are so many variables, but I'd imagine that in any sort of attack I'd be more intent on stopping the attack than punishing or praising.

Galway K9 wrote: »

*cough* jan fennnell *cough*

and again

Your last few posts are very cryptic. What is your view on dominance based training?

Quick · 22-03-2011 9:58am

Yeah I agree...

Galway K9 · 22-03-2011 6:55pm

Thats me cryptic haha.

I dont believe in dominance roll overs thats all im willing to share as these discussions bring about loads of trolls and conflict. haha:D

Discodog · 22-03-2011 7:08pm

Galway K9 wrote: »

Honest question: A dog attacks a person what are you going to do? Praise or punish?
*cough* jan fennnell *cough*

I thought that you were a dog trainer - or am I wrong ?. If so then why would you ask the question ?. How can you punish a dog if it attacks a person ?. What do you do to punish it & how will the dog know why it was punished ?.

Surely the first priority is to establish why it attacked & what had happened in it's past, not to praise or punish.

nudag · 22-03-2011 7:34pm

I have been reading the past few pages of posts and all I can say is what a load of balls, he said she said nonsense.

I am new to this forum, but already there seems to be alot of know it alls surfacing already to me.

I don’t agree with prong collar obviously before I get tarred with that brush. I don’t think Caesar is that bad is most of the things he does, bar the "strangling" of course. Is the family unit not a hierarchy, like a pack of dogs? Do dogs not try and intimidate each other in a pack? I don’t see the problem with controlling a dog as long as you aren’t beating the living daylights out of it.

Discodog · 22-03-2011 8:01pm

nudag wrote: »

Is the family unit not a hierarchy, like a pack of dogs? Do dogs not try and intimidate each other in a pack? I don’t see the problem with controlling a dog as long as you aren’t beating the living daylights out of it.

Welcome to Boards & such an informative post.

No a family is nothing like a dog pack. Families are human, dogs are dogs.

Again no. Dog pack members do not intimidate each other because it would cause conflict & that prejudices the abiltiy of the pack to survive.

Most of us here control our dogs pretty well by just praising good behaviour.

By the way if you do a little research you may find that some of the "know it alls" don't profess to know it all but they actually know a heck of a lot. I guess it depends on whether you perceive them as "a load of balls" or whether you are open minded enough to listen & even learn.

nudag · 22-03-2011 9:11pm

Wow, saracasm and a little lecture already. I am looking forward to posting here! :rolleyes:

In my opinion a dog does percieve its human family as a pack and as its owner you have to be its leader and guide it away from whatever harm it may get into and correct it if its being bold.

I have seen alot of nature programs where wolves challenge one another in their heirarchy to try and get higher up in the pack and so to get more food etc. If this didnt happen then the leader of the pack would be an toothless wreck who has been there for years and the pack would not survive anyway!

I must be wrong though!

EGAR · 22-03-2011 9:11pm

Galway K9 wrote: »

well Egar your dogs are having a ball at my club after your agility episode!

I do not participate in your *classes*.

EGAR · 22-03-2011 9:15pm

Galway K9 wrote: »

however i comp go against your personailty and methods but do go along with your love for dogs.

I wasn't aware that you know me? As far as I know I met you once in person during a fundraiser at an agility competition. And what I saw there were GSD on choke chains, nice ... not

.

EGAR · 22-03-2011 9:17pm

nudag wrote: »

Wow, saracasm and a little lecture already. I am looking forward to posting here! :rolleyes:

In my opinion a dog does percieve its human family as a pack and as its owner you have to be its leader and guide it away from whatever harm it may get into and correct it if its being bold.

I have seen alot of nature programs where wolves challenge one another in their heirarchy to try and get higher up in the pack and so to get more food etc. If this didnt happen then the leader of the pack would be an toothless wreck who has been there for years and the pack would not survive anyway!

I must be wrong though!

Nudag, a wolf is not a dog and vice versa.

dog whisperer

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