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dog whisperer

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    #122
    EGAR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    ISDW wrote: »
    How did this become all about you? I don't know what?:confused: You're not making much sense to me, but maybe this is how you think dogs should be trained, bullying tactics? Total disrespect for anyone else's opinion?

    You're a special case? Such arrogance is astounding.

    Now ISDW, look here, you can't go around and insult HRH of the canine world, wunderkind and all that, ya know? Handling Guard dogs WOW and here was poor little old me thinking a dog is a dog is a dog..? Obviously not - great entertainment all the same. :D


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    #123
    EGAR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Im not a dog whisperer lover but you can look at that video in 2 ways . A man choking a dog , or a dog attacking a man.


    Turn the sound off and watch the body language.


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    #124
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,862 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Im not a dog whisperer lover but you can look at that video in 2 ways . A man choking a dog , or a dog attacking a man.

    Attack ? - it's wagging it's tail. CM deserved an attack & if that dog meant it there would be nothing that CM could do.


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    #125
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Im not a dog whisperer lover but you can look at that video in 2 ways . A man choking a dog , or a dog attacking a man.

    A "professional" choking the dog :D

    The dog is a large fella, if the dog was seriously attacking CM he would not have been able to keep it at arms length. And if the dog did attack needlessly, the way to deal with it is not to choke it out.

    You can see the kick the dog gets before he turns on CM, It's very likely that it esclates so quickly because the dog is on a prong collar, which causes pain as soon as any pressure is but on it. CM and his methods cause this "attack", there are very few trainers that would have been in that situation in the first place.


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    #126
    dollydishmop
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭dollydishmop


    caseyann wrote: »
    I happen to be a special case


    ...must....resist....


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    #127
    Daniel S
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭Daniel S


    andreac wrote: »
    Nope, definately not, hes certainly not a dog whisperer, his methods are outdated with him trying to dominate the dogs and make them do what he wants through fear and submission.
    Hes not the man people think he is...:mad:
    What do you mean? He is feckin' Jesus.


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    #128
    ISDW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Im not a dog whisperer lover but you can look at that video in 2 ways . A man choking a dog , or a dog attacking a man.

    I understand what you're saying, but if you look at around 2:50 of that video, the dog isn't doing anything wrong at all, its next to the other dog and is behaving impeccably, until Cesar kicks it, then it starts biting.


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    #129
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Watched the video and while is quite disturbing for people to watch.It was quite clear he stayed calm through the whole lot.There is no way that dog got kicked hard.He wouldnt condone it and hates it.The dog is an aggressive case and has clearly went for the owners previously.And the video shows the exact same reactions to them as he did to Ceaser.
    Most people would have panicked and that dog would have got chunks out of them.Thanks to him that dog has a chance.
    Can see how tense it was even for him when he leaned down and breathed out.
    No way in hell that dog would have walked with him calmly after that if the dog was hurt.That dog would have been viscous to him after.



    Funny they go on and on here,and not one of them mention the cruel methods trainers do to dogs.They take them into an arena and if they fail to be calm around another dog three times after training the dog is destroyed.
    :rolleyes:

    Great man.


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    #130
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    That dog looks to be fighting the lead more than anything else. If a dog that size was actually attacking there would be nothing that could be done to stop it, and it certainly wouldn't be going for the lead, it'd be going for him.


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    #131
    Quick
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Quick


    The main thing I have learned from this thread is how much folks like to quote each other :rolleyes:


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    #132
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    caseyann wrote: »
    Watched the video and while is quite disturbing for people to watch.It was quite clear he stayed calm through the whole lot.There is no way that dog got kicked hard.He wouldnt condone it and hates it.The dog is an aggressive case and has clearly went for the owners previously.And the video shows the exact same reactions to them as he did to Ceaser.
    Most people would have panicked and that dog would have got chunks out of them.Thanks to him that dog has a chance.
    Can see how tense it was even for him when he leaned down and breathed out.
    No way in hell that dog would have walked with him calmly after that if the dog was hurt.That dog would have been viscous to him after.



    Funny they go on and on here,and not one of them mention the cruel methods trainers do to dogs.They take them into an arena and if they fail to be calm around another dog three times after training the dog is destroyed.
    :rolleyes:    Great man.

    Who are these trainers??


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    #133
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    caseyann wrote: »
    Watched the video and while is quite disturbing for people to watch.It was quite clear he stayed calm through the whole lot.There is no way that dog got kicked hard.

    At 2.10 he does a sneaky little back step with his right foot, kicking the dog in its hind leg while at the same time yanking its head forward with the chain.

    He bloody well provokes the dog to lose it in front of the camera ...so that he can look good.

    Dog whisperer, me arse.
    He's a showman, a businessman, but he ain't no dog trainer


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    #134
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    andreac wrote: »
    Who are these trainers??

    http://www.love61.com/other/pet-5204.html

    They do it in england aswell and here.

    I saw them do it on tv a while back,a Jack Russell being walked around an arena and because he looked crooked at other dogs three times.They destroyed him.


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    #135
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    peasant wrote: »
    At 2.10 he does a sneaky little back step with his right foot, kicking the dog in its hind leg while at the same time yanking its head forward with the chain.

    He bloody well provokes the dog to lose it in front of the camera ...so that he can look good.

    Dog whisperer, me arse.
    He's a showman, a businessman, but he ain't no dog trainer


    Not what i saw,the dog was showing a sign of preparing for aggression he tapped it with side swipe that would not have hurt the dog.Then all hell broke lose because that dog did not want to be told what to do,and you could see it with the rest of the parts with his own owners.Anyone could be a target for him walking on the street.So proper control was needed.
    And he is adamant about not hurting animals.


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    #136
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    caseyann wrote: »
    http://www.love61.com/other/pet-5204.html

    They do it in england aswell and here.

    I saw them do it on tv a while back,a Jack Russell being walked around an arena and because he looked crooked at other dogs three times.They destroyed him.

    Id love to know exactly what trainers in Ireland do this as ive never, ever heard of it and i know a lot of trainers and people involved in rehoming and rescuing dogs.


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    #137
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    caseyann wrote: »
    http://www.love61.com/other/pet-5204.html

    They do it in england aswell and here.

    I saw them do it on tv a while back,a Jack Russell being walked around an arena and because he looked crooked at other dogs three times.They destroyed him.

    Oh just to add, anyone who does anything like to a dog is not a trainer, far from it actually.


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    #138
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    andreac wrote: »
    Id love to know exactly what trainers in Ireland do this as ive never, ever heard of it and i know a lot of trainers and people involved in rehoming and rescuing dogs.

    They train the dog and it goes through three tests.If it fails the third test its dead.
    Yeah because they are going to be up front about that detail arent they.


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    #139
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    andreac wrote: »
    Oh just to add, anyone who does anything like to a dog is not a trainer, far from it actually.

    That case with the Jack russell was a rescue unit in England,and they were trained pros who evaluated the dog and put it down.It didnt show teeth it didnt try to get across to the other dog.Just because it showed interest in the other dog they put it down.


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    #140
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    caseyann wrote: »
    That case with the Jack russell was a rescue unit in England,and they were trained pros who evaluated the dog and put it down.It didnt show teeth it didnt try to get across to the other dog.Just because it showed interest in the other dog they put it down.

    There is no doubt that there are many more cases of "trainers" or "rescues" that treat dogs wrong or badly or even kill them.
    Doesn't change the fact that little Ceasar is a charlatan though


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    #141
    lrushe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    caseyann wrote: »
    I have never once seen him instill fear in any dog not a single time.
    He gives them time to calm down and get used to him and feel his energy he isnt there to harm.

    Can I just point out that these dogs are not calm, they have shut down. It's a survival instinct in animals triggered by fear and/or confusion, like if you've ever held a wild bird with your hands open but it doesn't fly away because it is overcome with fear. You could say that such a bird is calm, even enjoying sitting in your hands but in reality that's not really what's happening.


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    #142
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    lrushe wrote: »
    Can I just point out that these dogs are not calm, they have shut down. It's a survival instinct in animals triggered by fear and/or confusion, like if you've ever held a wild bird with your hands open but it doesn't fly away because it is overcome with fear. You could say that such a bird is calm, even enjoying sitting in your hands but in reality that's not really what's happening.

    A bird and dog two completely different instincts.
    Those dogs have calmed down and surrendered to let the person come closer to them.
    Have you ever come across a dog that was so afraid of people it backed in a corner and lashed out at anyone who came near it?


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    #143
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    peasant wrote: »
    There is no doubt that there are many more cases of "trainers" or "rescues" that treat dogs wrong or badly or even kill them.
    Doesn't change the fact that little Ceasar is a charlatan though

    In your opinion.Not in mine.


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    #144
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    caseyann wrote: »
    Have you ever come across a dog that was so afraid of people it backed in a corner and lashed out at anyone who came near it?
    Yes, I have. How would you suggest someone deal with that situation?


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    #145
    carwash_2006
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭carwash_2006


    Caseyann, if you are going to proclaim that things like that happen here or in the UK you will have to provide links to this information. If it happens it is one or two individual rescues, but I would be very surprised if it really does. Of all the rescues that I have had contact with and visited over here I have never come across one that would have those sort of behavioural tests and act in that manner based on them. I am aware they can be a bit OTT in the states, but I am faiirly certain that a lot of that is due to the fear of being sued.

    On the matter of the video, I actually couldn't watch past about 1 minute or so. That kind of flooding a dog in that scenario is the worst way to deal with an issue like that. I have known of several dogs who's owners went to a trainer that used that kind of flooding technique, it may seem for a while that the dog has been fixed, but they invariably revert and usually become more aggressive with time in the trigger scenario because they remember the flooding experience and it drives them even crazier.

    The way to deal with that dog would have been extremely slowly using a dog that is known to be completely unreactive. My aunt has helped several people with similar scenarios with her bombproof labrador/lurcher cross. It takes months of work starting from very long range and keeping the dogs attention on the trainer, you need to be able to judge a dogs body language extremely well to do it properly and remove the other dog before the one you are training becomes uncomfortable, the trick is to remove their bad association around other dogs and improve their confidence, you can only do this when they are comfortable. Clicker training can be very useful for helping with this scenario as it helps to improve the dogs attentiveness to the owner.


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    #146
    lrushe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    caseyann wrote: »
    A bird and dog two completely different instincts.
    Those dogs have calmed down and surrendered to let the person come closer to them.
    Have you ever come across a dog that was so afraid of people it backed in a corner and lashed out at anyone who came near it?

    Every animal, humans included share the v.basic survival instincts.
    When in a confrontational situation that instinct is to fight or flee, if both those options are removed (often the case with CM's training) the animal will shut down and accept it's fate.


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    #147
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    caseyann wrote: »
    Have you ever come across a dog that was so afraid of people it backed in a corner and lashed out at anyone who came near it?

    Could that potentially be a dog that not only has been hurt with a prong collar but also choked with it's own leash to "calm down"?

    Let's cut through the BS here ...what your man is televesing as a training method is irresponsible and downright dangerous.

    Imagine an inexperienced owner with a big, heavy, strong dog with serious behavioral and aggression issues. This owner is on the edge of control over his/her dog and having just seen CM on the telly "calming" this Malamute tries to do the same with a properly wound up Rottie, St. Bernard or some other equally heavy and powerful dog.

    Minced meat will be the end result.


    What I'd like to know is how many dogs CM walked away from off camera because he knew they wouldn't stand for him and his dirty little tricks.


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    #148
    carwash_2006
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭carwash_2006


    caseyann wrote: »
    A bird and dog two completely different instincts.
    Those dogs have calmed down and surrendered to let the person come closer to them.
    Have you ever come across a dog that was so afraid of people it backed in a corner and lashed out at anyone who came near it?

    Those dogs appear calm because they have been flooded and have shut down. Apart from anything else when the Cesar is gone, if the stuff he does is not kept up and the owner goes back to treating the dog more or less the same way, the dog will gradually start to wake up and this can mean a complete escalation of the previous behaviour.

    Have you really never seen a dog like you describe? They don't necessarilly have to be backed into a corner, but I have definitely come across dogs where I quickly realised that there was no way I was going to go near that dog and I know for a fact that it was due to fear as the dog had not been properly socialised with people, anyone bar the owner was very much at risk going near it. You could almost smell the fear off the dog to be honest.


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    #149
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    caseyann wrote: »
    A bird and dog two completely different instincts.
    Those dogs have calmed down and surrendered to let the person come closer to them.
    Have you ever come across a dog that was so afraid of people it backed in a corner and lashed out at anyone who came near it?

    No, they are not "calm" they are so terrified they are frozen to the spot, much in the same way as horses were broken in the wild west by being tied to poles and raced around rearing, bucking and screaming and pulled over on their head to 'train' them not to rear then it started all over again with some idiot on their back until they gave up and lay down, not because they were calm and submissive but because they have gone past the point where they want to live and give in to the 'predator' in the hope that death will come quicker, yes there are people that still do this also, they are not horse trainers, they are just idiots who like to watch Clint Eastwood movies. You do realise this is how you have come across yourself in this thread don't you? :confused:

    And yes, I know horses aren't dogs.


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    #150
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    carwash_2006 wrote: »
    I know for a fact that it was due to fear as the dog had not been properly socialised with people,

    Pfft carwash, dontcha know the dog in that case was being dominant and required you to show him who is boss. Obviously! :pac:

    Regarding another of his techniques; it's pretty well documented that flooding a dog (or most creatures for that matter) causes a shut down. It makes the dog give up and accept its fate.
    http://thespiritdog.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/flooding-a-nervous-dog/
    The video linked to in that even has the caption
    Cesar takes on an untamable Jindo and wins.
    And wins?? What type of trainer refers to it as winning?

    The dog in the video is highly highly distressed.

    Flooding may work with some dogs, but when it doesn't, it turns the dog into a nervous wreck.


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    #151
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Whispered wrote: »
    Yes, I have. How would you suggest someone deal with that situation?

    Depends on location.
    I accidentally came across that situation last year.
    The dog was huddled in a ball terrified of everyone moving.
    It had a gaping big wound on the back of its neck where half its hair was missing and oozing puss.A couple of people tried to approach it and the dog came out all teeth squealing and growling.
    I got quite worried,so i sat on the bars beside the shop couple of feet away from the dog no eye contact.I had just bought some chicken pieces.So i put some on the ground a little away from me as he looked hungry.He sniffed at me a couple of times from a distance and then ate the food.I got up and walked away.And he followed me home.When i got to the house i held the gate open and allowed him in.Didnt touch him and sat on the ground till he came over to me.He lay down on the ground beside me on the blanket i put out for him.I treated the wound he had and brought him to the vet.It took me two days to get him to relax around other people and pretty soon that dog was a picture of health.The people who he attacked previously couldnt believe it was the same dog.
    Depends on situation.


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