DART+ (DART Expansion)

there is not going to be services to dublin from wexford or towns north via the south wexford line.

lets just put that to bed.

not only is it not a reasonable compromise but it's not a compromise at all.
the journey time would be quite substantially effected by this, not to mention that even if it was the case that rosslare line passengers were all able to get a seat, it means those previously able to get a seat up the line will not be able to do so.
ultimately, it provides a worse service over all for all but tries to make it look like a better service will be provided, essentially it's a shifting of the deck chairs to replace crap deck chairs for some with broken deck chairs.

the line from bray to connolly is not as constrained as being made out, there are some constraints but with future signalling and the fact they are running a 10 minute frequency and direct rosslare services, dispite many of us fearing that 10 minutes wouldn't be possible with the current infrastructure, it is clear that there is capacity for all with increased frequencies possible for all with more darts and more direct rosslare services.

bray to greystones is a bit of an issue but that is going to have to be addressed regardless, there is no getting out of that.

If I owned the crayons for this line, I would

• Triple/Quad track the Merrion Gates to Dun Laoighaire section (and perhaps raise it a bit, "just in case")
• Double/Triple the Shankill to Bray and onwards to the Cliffs section
• Double/Triple the Cliffs section to Greystone Section

But maybe it's good that I don't own the crayons…

It's not in the AIRR so definitely a crayon suggestion but it's only 40km from Enniscorthy to Carlow via Bunclody through open fairly flat countryside, if they really wanted to divert the Wexford service into Heuston.

we already know a shuttle will fail, it offers nothing worth bothering with, just no point in wasting time trialling something we know will fail.
i've been a user of the line for nearly 40 years so i am well aware of it's issues and what it actually needs doing to deal with them, and this plan is not that.
direct services are absolutely an efficient use of resources as they provide people with a comfortable direct service and it means no empty running otherwise known as ECS moves which would be happening with this idea due to the reasons i explained in previous posts.
you will never make the change time neutral because it's impossible unless everyone engages in a ridiculously fast stampede across to the other train and one wants people crushed, personally that's not what i want.
i'm basing my arguments on actual facts and actual realities as well as my nearly 40 years of knowledge of the line.

AIRR has a proposed chord line to dump Sligo services in to Heuston

Mad stuff: last time I was in Bunclody it was quite hilly.

it more or less does, the technical term for the others is regional.

but for the most part both overlap in terms of service quality, at least in terms of onboard environment.

there will be differences though such as cork and belfast having a little bit more aspects to the service quality.

lx's point still stands though whichever terms you use.

the suggestion to curtail the rosslare services at greystones is not about dart or about improving things.
the reality is a direct service even if slow is going to be a vast improvement over turfing people off at wicklow or greystones onto a suburban service with increased journey times.
once dart+ happens there will be plenty of rolling stock to operate an increased frequency, trying to operate it with the current rolling stock and staff is unworkable even with turfing everyone off at greystones because the capacity to support the lines usership is currently not enough anyway.
ultimately, it will only be direct services from sligo and rosslare and belfast etc that will be happening, because the politicians in sligo will insure it and we have enough power down here now between campaign groups and local politicians to insure it.
the only reason for this nonsense is the NTA'S want to simply kill off rail outside parts of the GDA for their own political reasons whatever they are, which is very obvious hence why coming up with dum sollutions rather then getting real.

You’ve never travelled with a toddler, young child, pregnant woman, old person or person with kidney problems, have you?

This isn’t a good option for those people, or people with baggage or people who want to be comfortable in long trips so it will drive them to alternate options like buses or cars. Other people will be happy with the improved frequency and the lack of IC facilities won’t bother them.

Let’s not pretend this is perfect, it’s a compromise. Snide remarks about people holding their bladder is a great way of discussing it.

not a valid comparison seeing as dublin bus passengers expect what they get when traveling on those services.
why would i pick my arguments when in reality all of the arguments are in favour of my side of the debate.

Wexford is not on the Rosslare-Waterford line. Maybe it should be. I think it should, but I'll leave that as a discussion for an Inter-City route thread, as neither Waterford nor Wexford are ever going to be served by DART...

Ideally intercity trains should depart from the most central train station in the city. If Glasnevin to Connolly line is too full, can't they just use Docklands line fron Glasnevin, then use the Newcomen Curve to reach Connolly?

Drumcondra is a busy destination for the Sligo train. If they use Newcomen there's also the congestion is causes when the train then has to get to the yard or fueling point.

But is Drumcondra a busy destination for the Sligo train because of passengers from Maynooth who will in future be using DARTs to make that journey instead? Once Metrolink opens, Glasnevin would be a much better stop for Sligo trains, Drumcondra would be pointless a that stage.

It's not well connected for passengers to get to/from. And you still have the issue of congestion when you need to get a train down there from the yard in Connolly. You could always reconnect the link with North Wall, and there's room down there to store trains. But that won't happen in reality. Especially since they are also building a new freight terminal in North Wall shortly.

Two platforms, but you can run four trains out of there in theory. And they regularly run two trains off one platform.