DART+ (DART Expansion)

there was only 217 on 1 day in 2019, irrelevant ultimately.

the fact is the trains from rosslare are beyond full from very far down the line and all trains at that.

that's the fact from a regular user.

The rail census figures are the figures everything is based on. It is selected to be a perfectly representative day. If there is significant disruption, they re do it to get accurate figures.

The chances that there was an odd occurrence that caused a lines passenger numbers to collapse on that day is nil (there is a chance of a random occurrence causing them to be higher, e.g. a school trip). The figures are valid.

The idea that said magic occurrence would happen on every rail census day, ever year, resulting in permanently low figures is laughable.

it's not a sleepy rural anything, it's a long distance regional main line serving sizable towns and it has multiples of 500 passengers, more like multiple thousand now with full trains on the line all of the time.
sligo is not a city either but its ultimately irrelevant as in ireland the regional product is to almost intercity standards so as to attract patronage.
absolutely laughable that your answer to lx's legitimate points is so what, anyone who was serious about public transport would not hold the contempt you have for rail passengers.
so desperate to have this discredited idea implemented which you will never use, on people who don't want it, that you will show the ultimate contempt for them while claiming to be a public transport advocate.
yet dispite the buses being everything you state, rail is still being used and growing, funny that, it's almost as if the buses can't offer rail users what they are looking for, or at least at the time they are using the train, so your so what about killing off rail services is even more of a joke as you want them to then use a method of public transport they don't completely want to use just to get your way.
a more frequent rail service that runs direct will lead to more passengers yes.

the increase to 20 minutes needs infrastructure works between Bray and Greystones to allow trains to pass going in opposite directions. Originally the plan was to double the line between Greystones and Bray Head but it's now rumoured they'll only be doubling a short section just before the tunnels.

Currently there's a 30 minute frequency but there's an extra slot in each direction each hour available for Commuter/Intercity trains as 2 trains can use the line in the same direction on after the other provided they're with 10 or 15 minutes of each other

e.g.

12:00: Dart Bray→Greystones

12:15: Intercity Bray→Greystones

12:30 Dart Greystones→Bray

IDK if they're planning a higher frequency from Bray, but from Dun Laoghaire seems possible if they run some of the new Drogheda darts to there. There was a document with suggested service patterns in it released early in the Dart+ process but I can't find a copy.

Talking about facts and hyperbole, while also claiming, with absolute certainty, that the real aim of Irish Rail is to "kill off services to wexford altogether".

Christ Almighty!!

there is not going to be services to dublin from wexford or towns north via the south wexford line.

lets just put that to bed.

not only is it not a reasonable compromise but it's not a compromise at all.
the journey time would be quite substantially effected by this, not to mention that even if it was the case that rosslare line passengers were all able to get a seat, it means those previously able to get a seat up the line will not be able to do so.
ultimately, it provides a worse service over all for all but tries to make it look like a better service will be provided, essentially it's a shifting of the deck chairs to replace crap deck chairs for some with broken deck chairs.

the line from bray to connolly is not as constrained as being made out, there are some constraints but with future signalling and the fact they are running a 10 minute frequency and direct rosslare services, dispite many of us fearing that 10 minutes wouldn't be possible with the current infrastructure, it is clear that there is capacity for all with increased frequencies possible for all with more darts and more direct rosslare services.

bray to greystones is a bit of an issue but that is going to have to be addressed regardless, there is no getting out of that.

If I owned the crayons for this line, I would

• Triple/Quad track the Merrion Gates to Dun Laoighaire section (and perhaps raise it a bit, "just in case")
• Double/Triple the Shankill to Bray and onwards to the Cliffs section
• Double/Triple the Cliffs section to Greystone Section

But maybe it's good that I don't own the crayons…

It's not in the AIRR so definitely a crayon suggestion but it's only 40km from Enniscorthy to Carlow via Bunclody through open fairly flat countryside, if they really wanted to divert the Wexford service into Heuston.

we already know a shuttle will fail, it offers nothing worth bothering with, just no point in wasting time trialling something we know will fail.
i've been a user of the line for nearly 40 years so i am well aware of it's issues and what it actually needs doing to deal with them, and this plan is not that.
direct services are absolutely an efficient use of resources as they provide people with a comfortable direct service and it means no empty running otherwise known as ECS moves which would be happening with this idea due to the reasons i explained in previous posts.
you will never make the change time neutral because it's impossible unless everyone engages in a ridiculously fast stampede across to the other train and one wants people crushed, personally that's not what i want.
i'm basing my arguments on actual facts and actual realities as well as my nearly 40 years of knowledge of the line.

AIRR has a proposed chord line to dump Sligo services in to Heuston

Mad stuff: last time I was in Bunclody it was quite hilly.

it more or less does, the technical term for the others is regional.

but for the most part both overlap in terms of service quality, at least in terms of onboard environment.

there will be differences though such as cork and belfast having a little bit more aspects to the service quality.

lx's point still stands though whichever terms you use.

the suggestion to curtail the rosslare services at greystones is not about dart or about improving things.
the reality is a direct service even if slow is going to be a vast improvement over turfing people off at wicklow or greystones onto a suburban service with increased journey times.
once dart+ happens there will be plenty of rolling stock to operate an increased frequency, trying to operate it with the current rolling stock and staff is unworkable even with turfing everyone off at greystones because the capacity to support the lines usership is currently not enough anyway.
ultimately, it will only be direct services from sligo and rosslare and belfast etc that will be happening, because the politicians in sligo will insure it and we have enough power down here now between campaign groups and local politicians to insure it.
the only reason for this nonsense is the NTA'S want to simply kill off rail outside parts of the GDA for their own political reasons whatever they are, which is very obvious hence why coming up with dum sollutions rather then getting real.

This is a very legitimate concern. IR have made clear, the proposal has not been decided. It's early stage of scoping.

One would have to assume that proper facilities would be installed at whichever station might serve as a terminus. Absolutely a non runner if those services are not put in place prior to any change.