Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

Flinty997 · 01-03-2022 04:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714910#Comment_118714910

Yes.

Flinty997 · 01-03-2022 04:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714896#Comment_118714896

Some wheelchair users can walk a short distance, or use a rollator. You've a very blinkered view point.

Flinty997 · 01-03-2022 05:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714887#Comment_118714887

You're conflating different issues into one.

Expecting someone to answer a vexatious strawman, says more about the person asking the question.

Seth Brundle · 01-03-2022 05:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714485#Comment_118714485

ok so let's look at this piece by piece:

More like you've no data for your bias. Least I proved a link to a study, you provided diddly.

You provided a link to a study which goes nowhere towards backing up your claim that some cyclists travel at inappropriate speeds in the park. In fact, you still have not defined what you believe is an inappropriate speed.

Faster then me on the bike, around 15kmph, faster than cars on the road doing around 30kmph. I think that excessive on a cycle/footpath passing other cyclists (and pedestrians) with no margin for error. Faster then me in the car.

Who is talking about cyclists on the footpath? The discussion is about cyclists in the cycle lane or on a road. The old CA cycle path is long gone. Anyone in recent times I've seen cycling on a footpath are children or elderly people at a snails pace. I don't recall seeing anyone else.

As for cars doing 30km/h, the reality is that most drivers were not abiding by the 50km/h limit weren't which is why there have been tantrums in some circles over the new speed limits.

I didn't refer to drivers inappropriate speed because we were talking about cyclists. I'm not defending drivers. That's a false equivalence.

You were making the allegation about some cyclists travelling at inappropriate speeds and I challenged you to back it up (which you have yet to do) and for comparative purposes why you weren't mentioning drivers who travel along the same stretch of tarmac at far greater speeds than anynone one a bike. it is not a false equivalence - surely the people put at risk by the dangerous cyclist are more likely to face injury from drivers travelling at a greater speed?

The argument here is that the park is for people walking around, family, children. These even closed roads to facilitate this. Somewhat contradictory we have no problem with high speed cycling through the same pedestrians, families and children, or tourists on leisurely cycle. No bias there at all.

Where did I mention it is ok to cycle through pedestrians?

Obviously struck a nerve with this one. We'll see a 5% jump in Strava times this evening.

My nerves are fine, thanks.

Flinty997 · 01-03-2022 06:40PM

I see. You want me to show you the data that I've demonstrated isn't collected. The theory being if there's no data on something it doesn't exist. Makes sense.

I quoted the Garda statement on their definition on inappropriate speed. Do you not believe the Garda? How about Richmond Park example.

The speed limit on the outer roadway is 20mph. It applies to all road users. Sensible speeds create a more welcoming environment for everyone.

The speed limit on the quietway is 10mph. Please pay special attention to children, walkers and learner cyclists who frequent this mostly car-free area which runs through the centre of the park between Ham Cross and Sheen Cross.

Never race or time trial. Doing so creates a shorter time for you to react to hazards, less time for others to see you, and you are likely to exceed the speed limit. If you want to ride within the speed limit without being impeded by so much traffic, consider visiting the park when its roads are quieter.

They actually banned cyclists for a while.

Poor obedience with regards to Park bylaws was also a cited issue: ‘Sports cyclists were gauged as reaching up to 34mph on several occasions.’ Richmond Park has a speed limit for bicycles of 20mph, and cyclists have historically been fined for being recorded over this limit.

The letter also mentions fast pelotons of riders passing ‘less experienced cyclists on shopping bikes with no safety helmets.’

They put speed cameras on the cyclists in case anyone's wondering. But there no speeding defined in law for cyclists. But thats a whole different issue.

Maybe you'll back up your allegation that drivers speed in the phoenix park, with some links to some peer reviewed studies that have captured statistics on speeding in the phoenix park, captured in the last 12 months.

em_cat · 01-03-2022 06:48PM

I was in the park today as per usual around mid day & no one, not even the park rangers, obeyed the new speed limit. Nor was there a Garda in sight attempting to enforce it.

The new 30kph along Chesterfield Ave is frustrating tbh.

In normal circumstances I can see a need for the 30kph and on residential roads & I support it.

I also support improved cycling infrastructure in the park, however forgetting that the park is to be accessed for all is beginning to feel like a siege on anyone who dares to use a car to get there.

Former Former Former · 01-03-2022 06:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714904#Comment_118714904

Ah jaysus. You should have just told us you never go to the park and you're only on this thread for a row, could have saved us all some time.

Flinty997 · 01-03-2022 07:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715628#Comment_118715628

I expect some Cinderella period when they enforce it for a little while then go back to ignoring it.

It is habit though. We have lot of driver aids these days to stick to limits if people want to.

I don't think its a siege. Discouraging car use is inevitable. Its unsustainable.

Shifty summed up it nicely by telling us just to go away somewhere else. So we've basically done that a lot more often.

Phil.x · 01-03-2022 07:27PM

I've been hitting 46km/h on they pushbike this week on Chesterfield avenue, much faster than the speed limit and most cars, I love how I'm above the law!!

01-03-2022 07:42PM

30km is way too slow for that road. 50 was actually too slow also. It should be 60 at the very least

01-03-2022 09:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715596#Comment_118715596

What Garda statement did you link? I just missed it

01-03-2022 09:05PM

The new parking spots along the North road are great, well marked out too, which means (hopefully) no crappy parking!

Flinty997 · 01-03-2022 10:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715806#Comment_118715806

Yup, speeding doesn't apply to bicycles :)

There are fixed penalty fines, but barely enforced. :)

Flinty997 · 01-03-2022 10:24PM

I came through tonight just to see what it was like. No one doing 30. Very weird in the dark and almost no cars. Passed by one bike. They are burning off the old road markings. Interesting to see how it works out.

Flinty997 · 01-03-2022 11:13PM

Anyone realize what day it was...

National Slow Down Day

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0301/1283636-national-slowdown-day/

Hurrache · 02-03-2022 09:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715628#Comment_118715628

Such a ridiculous post. Driver struggling to drive at 30kph could do with more lessons for starters. and the siege mentality might be dealt with by counselling.

02-03-2022 09:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718144#Comment_118718144

It's unnatural to drive that slow. It requires much more effort to maintain such a slow speed than to just drive at a speed that suits the road

Larbre34 · 02-03-2022 09:28AM

No, 60 would be excessive. Cos if you post 60, folk will do 70. And a big issue, especially at night, is deer roaming out and not being seen in the dim lamp light.

50 was fine, it was a relaxing spin to enjoy the view, while still being safe. I suspect after this trial of measures, it will revert to 50 again.

Effects · 02-03-2022 09:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718144#Comment_118718144

It was the same with people on the coast road at Sandymount. It was more dangerous, as drivers would lose concentration travelling that slow. And another guy who said cars aren't designed to drive that slow, and it would break their engines. 🤣

Seth Brundle · 02-03-2022 09:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718183#Comment_118718183

I used to think like that. It suited my views at the time but in reality it feels unnatural because you simply don't want to drive at that speed.

Saying that, there is nothing natural about driving so I guess that it is correct to claim that driving at X speed is unnatural.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718184#Comment_118718184

With climate change looming, it is believed that many urban limits will be reduced soon enough. However, with a muppet like O'Donovan in charge, I can't see the park limit staying at 30km/h

Flinty997 · 02-03-2022 09:45AM

A limit that's mostly never enforced is meaningless.

I look forward to seeing the speed data from the park over the last 12 months.

Appropriate Speed Limits

The selection of the speed limit for any particular section of a road type is an exercise in weighing the objectives of safety and operational efficiency. The operational efficiency is measured by travel time and the safety level, measured by the incidence of crashes and resulting injuries and fatalities with consideration of the road function

I'd like to see the stats they used to come up with the limits here.

Is there even one pedestrian crossing on the Ave anywhere?

Hurrache · 02-03-2022 09:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718183#Comment_118718183

You mightn't have heard, but it's unnatural to drive, full stop.

Seth Brundle · 02-03-2022 09:51AM

A limit that's mostly never enforced is meaningless.

I look forward to seeing the speed data from the park over the last 12 months.

If there are next to no speed checks than any data from the few that are there is likley to be meaningless.

I'd like to see the stats they used to come up with the limits here.

Are you looking for speeding related stats or carbon emissions stats or noise pollution stats or what?

Is there even one pedestrian crossing on the Ave anywhere?

There is not which is why drivers should be even more careful as pedestrians may be crossing almost anywhere

Flinty997 · 02-03-2022 09:54AM

Proper Data stats on traffic speed in the park over the last 12 months.

Flinty997 · 02-03-2022 09:58AM

The lack of pedestrian crossing makes a mockery of any pretence of safety. They could even have a few ramps to slow cars down if they were serious. They've had those ridiculous ones on the north road for a decade or so.

Effects · 02-03-2022 10:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718183#Comment_118718183

So you're saying the road needs to be changed so that it's more suitable to 30 kph. Like just make it a bunch of chicanes with speed bumps and zebra crossings every 100 metres or so.

Flinty997 · 02-03-2022 10:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718407#Comment_118718407

Only if you actually want speeds to drop.

Other wise you can pretend by putting signs up and not enforcing them.

Flinty997 · 02-03-2022 10:28AM

I wonder what the highest speeding ever recorded in the park was.

https://jrnl.ie/5698229

Excluding actual racing obviously.

Hurrache · 02-03-2022 10:28AM

Road traffic enforcement, country wide, is a joke. The whole idea of a national slow down day, yesterday, makes a mockery of the gardai.

Flinty997 · 02-03-2022 10:29AM

Maybe they need more signs....

Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

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