Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

horse7

Phoenix park is the biggest public park in Europe, so why is there no parking allowed since Corona?

beauf

horse7 wrote: »

Phoenix park is the biggest public park in Europe, so why is there no parking allowed since Corona?

Pressure from social media. From those who don't need a car to get to the park, or who don't use it usually anyway.

There's no doubt it was much nicer without cars. But it's noticeably quieter IMO. We would use it a lot normally. Very little since the lockdown.

I've actually avoided it since they opened the main road but keep the side gates closed. It's created long tail backs.

Larbre34

I've already been on to the Taoiseach's and Jack Chamber's offices about the Park during the week and they hinted they are getting deluged about it.

I drove through on Wednesday evening around 8pm from Parkgate, and the Park was practically deserted apart of course from about 3 million traffic cones. The worst thing about it though was, the usual passive security of there being lots of people around, was just gone, the place was desolate! I wouldn't have gone for a run on my own myself let alone let my wife venture in as she often does.

Yesterday's traffic on the main Avenue was simply a result of people wanting to go and visit the Park and finding nowhere to park or any alternative exit when they got there. The outcome was a mile each way of disappointed and confused people.

Phoenix Park is a national park, not just one for those within walking and cycling distance. Also, with public transport reduced to 15-20% capacity, how are people expected to use that alternative, especially with a family group, for the foreseeable future?

I get the impression the public reps will be coming down hard on OPW to reverse this failed experiment asap. I for one will simply start parking on the Avenue again for my weekend leisure visits and force the issue. As far as I can ascertain, OPW haven't enacted any new bye-laws for these measures so they'd be stuffed if people reverted to parking, en masse, as they always did.

beauf

What they need is proper car parks off the roads.

Lots of dead unused space in the park. Put a online counter on it like normal car parks. This is simple basic stuff. They just won't get the finger out and do it.

horse7

There,s no chance of that happening, it,s like OPW want to keep out the public. Well done to Larbe for the previous post.

Pinch Flat

Must as I hate the park being swamped with cars we have to accept that this is how most people access if and it a main route to the city from castleknock. I'd argue with improved cycling infrastructure people who drive to work from this area would consider converting it into a handy 30 Minute cycle in the morning. But that's for another day.

Few locations for dedicated parking that's regulated. Maybe charged as well and this used to fund a shuttle bus - there was one there a few years ago that operated for a nominal charge €1 Or something like that. It could serve the perimeter with stops at key locations.

Larbre34

The Park already had dedicated, good quality, cycle paths. These were unnecessarily redesignated as footpaths to improve social distancing. In an open-air 70 million square metre park....

Shuttle buses and all that are fine and noble and are already used for big events like Bloom, but with transport capacity forcibly at 15-20% thats a non-starter for the foreseeable.

polesheep

beauf wrote: »

What they need is proper car parks off the roads.

Lots of dead unused space in the park. Put a online counter on it like normal car parks. This is simple basic stuff. They just won't get the finger out and do it.

That's what makes it a park.

beauf

polesheep wrote: »

That's what makes it a park.

I'm not sure you understood "dead unused space"

polesheep

beauf wrote: »

I'm not sure you understood "dead unused space"

I don't know what you mean by 'dead'. Do you mean the wilderness that is home to a huge range of flora and fauna, including the herd of deer? The beautiful spaces that are a delight to wander through? Or do you think we should go back to the DCC's plan all those years ago that included putting an open air swimming pool on the 15 acres?

polesheep

'Proper car parks' will use up the space that so many people go there to enjoy.

daymobrew

Larbre34 wrote: »

As far as I can ascertain, OPW haven't enacted any new bye-laws for these measures so they'd be stuffed if people reverted to parking, en masse, as they always did.

The Phoenix Park Act of 1925 does allow the park rangers to arrest you.

The fine for assaulting a park ranger is 20 pounds.

beauf

polesheep wrote: »

I don't know what you mean by 'dead'. Do you mean the wilderness that is home to a huge range of flora and fauna, including the herd of deer? The beautiful spaces that are a delight to wander through? Or do you think we should go back to the DCC's plan all those years ago that included putting an open air swimming pool on the 15 acres?

So yes you don't understand the term unused space.

There's land at the back of Farmleigh they have used in the past as car parking just abandoned and derelict. There lots of areas on the fringe of the park that are pretty much dead ground, I've never seen deer or people anywhere near these areas in a lifetime of using the park. No one uses them because they are overgrown and/or inaccessible.

It would far better to have cars use those spaces than parked on the grass in the spaces that are used by people and animals.

beauf

polesheep wrote: »

'Proper car parks' will use up the space that so many people go there to enjoy.

People can't get there to enjoy it if there is no parking.

A lot less people using it now then usual. I suspect a lot of people who think it's busy now only think that because they don't use it that much normally, so it looks busy to them. But it isn't really.

A classic example of that was people saying the cycle paths were a joy to use. When the park is truely busy you can't use them. Too many people on them.

polesheep

beauf wrote: »

So yes you don't understand the term unused space.

There's land at the back of Farmleigh they have used in the past as car parking just abandoned and derelict. There lots of areas on the fringe of the park that are pretty much dead ground, I've never seen deer or people anywhere near these areas in a lifetime of using the park. No one uses them because they are overgrown and/or inaccessible.

It would far better to have cars use those spaces than parked on the grass in the spaces that are used by people and animals.

The back of Farmleigh is outside of the Phoenix Park. I have been in the Park pretty much every day of my life and I am at a loss to think where this dead ground is. Are you confusing 'overgrown' and 'wilderness'? The Phoenix Park has always been divided into activity areas and wilderness areas.

polesheep

beauf wrote: »

People can't get there to enjoy it if there is no parking.

A lot less people using it now then usual. I suspect a lot of people who think it's busy now only think that because they don't use it that much normally, so it looks busy to them. But it isn't really.

A classic example of that was people saying the cycle paths were a joy to use. When the park is truely busy you can't use them. Too many people on them.

The Phoenix Park has never been busier, outside of events. Building car parks in a park defeats the purpose of the park. There is a train station and a Luas stop right outside the main gate and numerous bus routes right around the perimeter.

Stark

beauf wrote: »

A classic example of that was people saying the cycle paths were a joy to use. When the park is truely busy you can't use them. Too many people on them.

Do you even know what you're talking about? They surrendered the old cycle paths that had already been appropriated by walkers and joggers and made the hard shoulder which no-one wants to walk in into cycle paths. So people can now cycle when the park is busy without having to worry about aggro from angry gammon for cycling on the road when "there's perfectly good cycle path available".

beauf

polesheep wrote: »

The back of Farmleigh is outside of the Phoenix Park. I have been in the Park pretty much every day of my life and I am at a loss to think where this dead ground is. Are you confusing 'overgrown' and 'wilderness'? The Phoenix Park has always been divided into activity areas and wilderness areas.

Both are opw. When Farmleigh is busy or has an event on they drag all that traffic and queues through the park to get to it. When it already has at least two other direct entrances that don't go through the park. So the OPW choose to create traffic in the park on those occasions.

beauf

polesheep wrote: »

The Phoenix Park has never been busier, outside of events. Building car parks in a park defeats the purpose of the park. There is a train station and a Luas stop right outside the main gate and numerous bus routes right around the perimeter.

What you are saying is that the park is busier even though less people can now get to it.

Its quiet anytime I've been in it. Apart from the odd peak day during the lock down.

I was going to say I've never seen it quieter but I have. It was quieter when they closed the main road for almost a year when they rebuilt it.

beauf

Stark wrote: »

Do you even know what you're talking about? They surrendered the old cycle paths that had already been appropriated by walkers and joggers and made the hard shoulder which no-one wants to walk in into cycle paths. So people can now cycle when the park is busy without having to worry about aggro from angry gammon for cycling on the road when "there's perfectly good cycle path available".

It's only a problem on peak days. That said I think it's a great idea. The cycle lanes have never made sense when it got busy. Or even mid winter youd meet ninja walkers and dog walkers on it, lead stretched across your path.

Always thought there should be cycle super highway through the park and now there is.

Larbre34

The sheer unsustainabilty of these traffic jams, seen today and yesterday, will force a reversal of these over zealous measures.

As I said, the Taoiseach's and Jack Chamber's offices both mentioned they had many complaints from users and neighbours of the Park and bear in mind I spoke to them on Friday, even before the mess of this weekend!

Something else to consider, the Zoo has just endured a 3 month+ enforced closure. Their financial viability, this year and beyond, depends on the level of vehicle access that they normally enjoy. I would strongly suspect that whatever OPW official is responsible for Phoenix Park can expect a very irate phonecall from the CEO of the Zoo first thing tomorrow.

beauf

Looks like its working perfectly...

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1271855869630787590?s=20

Larbre34

Usual myopic rubbish from Cuffe. And I'm not just saying that because I oppose his party policy. I know the guy through my work, he's a tin roofer.

He knows full well, that of the 10 million visitors to the park annually, a small percentage live within walking or cycling distance. How would he suggest families or anyone else access the Park with public transport forcibly reduced to 20% of capacity for the foreseeable future?

raheny red

beauf wrote: »

Looks like its working perfectly...

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1271855869630787590?s=20

I'm loving the new cycle lanes.

Larbre34

raheny red wrote: »

I'm loving the new cycle lanes.

They'll not be there long.

beauf

Ignore Cuff. The video is interesting because it's shows how in a time of greatly reduced traffic they've created the mother lode of traffic jams.

Also the activity in the background.

beauf

Larbre34 wrote: »

They'll not be there long.

I hope you're wrong but I can't see that there is the will and imagination to solve the myriad of issues around this.

polesheep

beauf wrote: »

Both are opw. When Farmleigh is busy or has an event on they drag all that traffic and queues through the park to get to it. When it already has at least two other direct entrances that don't go through the park. So the OPW choose to create traffic in the park on those occasions.

But Farmleigh isn't part of the Phoenix Park. And there is no ground behind Farmleigh that is part of the Park. Plus you still haven't said exactly where all this 'dead space' in the Park is actually located. The Zoo's main problem with parking for its customers is the park and ride cars left all day along Chesterfield road. That's a big issue that needs to be addressed.

beauf

polesheep wrote: »

But Farmleigh isn't part of the Phoenix Park. And there is no ground behind Farmleigh that is part of the Park. Plus you still haven't said exactly where all this 'dead space' in the Park is actually located. The Zoo's main problem with parking for its customers is the park and ride cars left all day along Chesterfield road. That's a big issue that needs to be addressed.

There's more parking on the avenue at the weekend's than there is during the weekdays.

Parking for the zoo is worse at the weekends, car park overflowing and cars on every road and even the grass around the park.

So whatever about the park and ride there isn't enough parking for people even at the weekends.

Simple solution to the park and ride. Clamp anyone parked there for than three hours on a weekday during office hours.

If Farmleigh has nothing to do with the park or the opw or the state, they should stop funnelling all the traffic going to it through the park. Lol.

polesheep

beauf wrote: »

There's more parking on the avenue at the weekend's than there is during the weekdays.

Parking for the zoo is worse at the weekends, car park overflowing and cars on every road and even the grass around the park.

So whatever about the park and ride there isn't enough parking for people even at the weekends.

Simple solution to the park and ride. Clamp anyone parked there for than three hours on a weekday during office hours.

If Farmleigh has nothing to do with the park or the opw or the state, they should stop funnelling all the traffic going to it through the park. Lol.

There are cars parked on the grass throughout the Park at the weekend. The only solution is to reduce the number of cars in the Park. I'm still waiting to hear where these 'dead spaces' are. And I agree with you, Farmleigh should be accessed from Tower road.

Former Former

Ciaran Cuffe; "take public transport"

Public transport companies: "avoid public transport unless absolutely necessary"

This is my issue with the Greens. They may have good intentions and some good ideas, but they're utterly disconnected from reality.

On the park traffic in general; the OPW have been waiting years to do this. Covid gave them the excuse they needed. That massive traffic jam is exactly what they were hoping for.

beauf

polesheep wrote: »

There are cars parked on the grass throughout the Park at the weekend. The only solution is to reduce the number of cars in the Park. I'm still waiting to hear where these 'dead spaces' are. And I agree with you, Farmleigh should be accessed from Tower road.

There's no point in explaining this further. if you think the park is fully, 100% utilized, zero dead space, and it makes sense to allow uncontrolled parking vs car parks then there is no point discussing further. The OPW approach is all over the place. They have closed roads in the past for no reason and were forced to reopen them. They have done nothing for cycling for years, they've never even resurfaced the cycle lane at parkgate street. Poor signage and illogical layouts. illogical routing of traffic, and causing grid lock.

We have all the usual ranting that cars shouldn't be allowed in, and its only commuters driving through and parking. That the park is overflowing only because of the car ban. Nothing to do with people being off work and school. Completely ignoring all common sense.

I don't care anymore. Lots of other parks in the area without these daft rules. No traffic jams and parking and public toilets and properly designed walks and trails, proper picnic areas and play grounds. Every other park many much smaller than PP can have a car park inside the entrance, leaving the rest empty of cars. Only the Phoenix Park seems to do everything differently. It hardly changed in 40 years.

beauf

Incidentally what company have the eBikes at the Castleknock end. Are they Bleeper bikes?

polesheep

beauf wrote: »

There's no point in explaining this further. if you think the park is fully, 100% utilized, zero dead space, and it makes sense to allow uncontrolled parking vs car parks then there is no point discussing further. The OPW approach is all over the place. They have closed roads in the past for no reason and were forced to reopen them. They have done nothing for cycling for years, they've never even resurfaced the cycle lane at parkgate street. Poor signage and illogical layouts. illogical routing of traffic, and causing grid lock.

We have all the usual ranting that cars shouldn't be allowed in, and its only commuters driving through and parking. That the park is overflowing only because of the car ban. Nothing to do with people being off work and school. Completely ignoring all common sense.

I don't care anymore. Lots of other parks in the area without these daft rules. No traffic jams and parking and public toilets and properly designed walks and trails, proper picnic areas and play grounds. Every other park many much smaller than PP can have a car park inside the entrance, leaving the rest empty of cars. Only the Phoenix Park seems to do everything differently. It hardly changed in 40 years.

All I'm asking is that you tell me where this 'dead space' is.

beauf

polesheep wrote: »

All I'm asking is that you tell me where this 'dead space' is.

There isn't any. Every square foot is jammed with people and animals and wild flowers. There is absolutely no area that isn't heavily used by all the above. So busy in fact its impossible to park a car anywhere, or fly a drone, or practise with my trebuchet. Like the video posted earlier. Overrun with people.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Incidentally what company have the eBikes at the Castleknock end. Are they Bleeper bikes?

Found them. https://twitter.com/MobyMove

polesheep

beauf wrote: »

There isn't any. Every square foot is jammed with people and animals and wild flowers. There is absolutely no area that isn't heavily used by all the above. So busy in fact its impossible to park a car anywhere, or fly a drone, or practise with my trebuchet. Like the video posted earlier. Overrun with people.

Thank you.

Seve OB

horse7 wrote: »

Phoenix park is the biggest public park in Europe

Ehhhhhh no it is not.

jack presley

Is parking/driving/cycling in Phoenix Park really a Neighbourhood Watch issue in the first place?

beauf

jack presley wrote: »

Is parking/driving/cycling in Phoenix Park really a Neighbourhood Watch issue in the first place?

If they stop cars.. not anymore...

Caranica

jack presley wrote: »

Is parking/driving/cycling in Phoenix Park really a Neighbourhood Watch issue in the first place?

Think it deserves its own thread

beauf

Caranica wrote: »

Think it deserves its own thread

Already has a few around the place....

miamee

Mod: Phoenix Park discussion split out from the Neighbourhood Watch thread.

beauf

Just avoid it.


https://lovindublin.com/dublin/drivers-advised-to-avoid-phoenix-park-due-to-extreme-delays

Hurrache

Seve OB wrote: »

Ehhhhhh no it is not.

It's the biggest enclosed park.

Spanish Eyes

I said on one of the other threads that the North Road on the periphery should be used for driving through in place of Chesterfield Avenue. Open the NCR gate only for access to this. Accessible by all. Close Parkgate Street gates to car traffic. Something has to be done now. It is just ridiculous.

Pedestrian only at all other gates.

Parking is an issue, I don't know how that can be solved within the park without destroying its fabric.

beauf

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

...Something has to be done now. It is just ridiculous.....

This is entirely a deliberately created problem.
Before the lock down with far higher levels of traffic it wasn't never this bad.

Its not the first time OPW in the park have done similar.

Don't reopen it, with a moronic traffic plan.

miamee

I don't know why they don't do what they usually do on summer weekends - close Chesterfield Avenue from the first roundabout at the Castleknock gate end to the roundabout at Áras an Uachtaráin but keep all gates open and allow traffic to use the outer roads. It keeps the middle bit of the park free of traffic for families, cyclists, pedestrians, etc. while still being accessible and less of a 'short cut' for those hoping to nip through to/from town. They could even extend it to the roundabout at the other end of the park near the zoo.

beauf

I would love to see some traffic stats on how well that worked.

Personally that forced me to drive much further in the park than normal.

zerosugarbuzz

I’ve been using the park for years but have stopped since they closed the Chapilizod gate. This adds another 20 mins drive time each way to get to park gate street entrance to park at the papal cross. Daft thing to do, probably decided by a cyclist like everything in Dublin these days.

beauf

I think it was a OPW to discourage traffic. Which kinda does work. Its mixed bag though.

I think it achieves this, but by pushing, traffic into the more scenic roads. Which seems counter productive.

There are three distinct issues.

1) Through traffic.
3) People using it as Park and Ride
2) Parking for people using the Park recreation.

The OPW objective always seems to be block all cars from the park entirely, and reduce the numbers of people using the park.

They should just put electronic gates on the park and issue tags to essential workers. End off.